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[shark sandwich]

This thread is about games with fixed camera angles, or whose camera follows a fixed trajectory that is not controlled by the player. It has some major benefits:

- there is something great about seeing each scene as a work of art from exactly the perspective that the artist intended

- it helps create the illusion that you're seeing one small piece of a much larger world that existed long before you arrived. Whereas being able to examine the environment from every angle often just shows you how small and limited it really is

- it's hard to appreciate all the attention to detail when you're rotating the camera around and the scenery is whipping by. And you are mainly focused on being able to see your character's path, not appreciating the scenery.

- it allows for vastly different perspectives/angles depending on what the artist wants to emphasize

- from a technical perspective, it allows pre-rendered backgrounds with much greater detail than is possible in real-time

Please share some screenshots that show the virtues of good old fixed cameras. Because sometimes you don't want your character's ass to be at the center of your field of view all the time!

 

[shark sandwich]

And for a more modern example:

 

[BadWolf]

God of War - the thread.

 

[SerTapTap]

My favorite implementation of this is probably God of War. It's an on-rails camera that pretty much never gets in your way, which really isn't something I can say about most any 3D action game with fixed camera angles. Every angle is optimized for the combat that will be taking place, and very rarely will an enemy be off screen due to the current panning/zoom.

In addition to the gameplay benefits, God of War's camera angle allows that, well, cinematic (muted booing from crowd) effect of pans and zooms drawing attention to dramatic events in the background/foreground in a way that is very fluid and not immersion-breaking. The games do a great job of showing off the beautifully crafted worlds with the camera, and there's a lot of cool wide angle shots that would never happen with a "cameraman following you" sort of manual cam.

Actual fixed, static camera angles in RPGs are great and nostalgic, but God of War is just crazy good because it's dynamic and suffers almost none of the problem fixed camera angles are known for, and in an action game to boot.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

God of War - the thread.

lol....my first thought

 

[protonion]

One of the many great aspects of God of War.

I hate that nowadays we control the camera more than the character.

 

[Handy Fake]

 

[TI82]

And for a more modern example:

What game is this?

 

[shark sandwich]

What game is this?

The upcoming Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian.

 

[shark sandwich]

Is this the original Syndicate?

 

[Handy Fake]

Is this the original Syndicate?

It is indeed.

 

[bananafactory]

God of War's camera angles are some of the GOAT.

Perfect at depicting the raw scale of some of the environments, and very subtle in how it shifts your attention to a specific point.

 

[Tidus_Great]

god of war games were all good but there were times in ascension that the camera pulled back too far and I couldn't see what was going on. also ascension was glitch for a god of war game.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

fixed camera >>>>>> controllable camera

Fact!

RE REmake is still the most gorgeous RE.

Fact!

FFIX needs a HD version.

Fact!

Onimusha 2 has the best water graphics and was even better than the RE games.

Fact!

 

[gelf]

I have a soft spot for fixed cameras or director controlled cameras. They can frame a scene in a completely different way to the standard first person or behind the shoulder/arse cams. Its even more refreshing these days as 3rd person games camera control is usually so boringly standardised now.

I miss the old Resident Evil and Final Fantasy pre-rendered backdrops as they framed the scene in a completely different way to how the modern games do it. I'd like to see it more.

Final Fantasy VII

Final Fantasy IX:

REmake(taken by myself in Dolphin so a bit blurry as not in original res):

 

[Glass Rebel]

I'm certainly glad that pre-rendered backgrounds are mostly a thing of the past but I find it a shame that there isn't more experimentation with fixed camera angles.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I like fixed/static cameras as long as they don't impede gameplay (like making simple jumps really difficult due to the angle). I'd love to see a future RE game return to the static cameras of old.

 

[gelf]

I'm certainly glad that pre-rendered backgrounds are mostly a thing of the past but I find it a shame that there isn't more experimentation with fixed camera angles.

I want to see 1080p(or above) pre rendered backgrounds. I'd love to see what could be done with that setup. Artistically I think REmake still looks better then the vast majority of games today.

 

[shark sandwich]

I'm certainly glad that pre-rendered backgrounds are mostly a thing of the past but I find it a shame that there isn't more experimentation with fixed camera angles.

I still have a soft spot for pre-rendered backgrounds, but I totally agree that there is a lot of potential for fixed camera angles with real-time 3D environments.

Imagine something like Final Fantasy IX rendered in real-time. The camera could follow you at a fixed angle and distance (causing the scenery to scroll past and give you a real sense of depth), It could pan back and forth, it could zoom in and out, etc. And yet still give you a more "cinematic" perspective that draws your attention to the details in the scenery, rather than your character's butt.

 

[Renpatsu]

When I think about the idea of 'cinematic' games it isn't the aspect ratio that does it, but rather the framing and composition within the camera. So it's no surprise then that games with fixed camera angles can imbue emphasis towards certain details or suggest a much larger world than what you're seeing through sheer scale.

I wish more games did it.

 

[shark sandwich]

When I think about the idea of 'cinematic' games it isn't the aspect ratio that does it, but rather the framing and composition within the camera. So it's no surprise then that games with fixed camera angles can imbue emphasis towards certain details or suggest a much larger world than what you're seeing through sheer scale.

I wish more games did it.

Very true. Sadly I think that since the PSX days, much of the gaming community has just accepted that the ultimate goal of advancing gaming tech is realistic graphics and fully-explorable 3D environments.

 

[Sheroking]

There's an atmosphere to a good pre-rendered background that real-time graphics have an extremely difficult time replicating. Only a handful of games like BioShock Infinite have been able to touch that IMO

 

[SerTapTap]

When I think about the idea of 'cinematic' games it isn't the aspect ratio that does it, but rather the framing and composition within the camera. So it's no surprise then that games with fixed camera angles can imbue emphasis towards certain details or suggest a much larger world than what you're seeing through sheer scale.

I wish more games did it.

Yeah, I think the cinematic angles of God of War are far, far more important to a game being cinematic (in a good way) than low FPS or black bars. GoW don't need no black bars in gameplay.

Those REmake shots are a good example too

 

[gelf]

Some Grim Fandango backgrounds:

Cant wait for the remaster since my disc copy doesn't work anymore. Like others have said, these kind of things are more cinematic to me then black bars and low framerates.

 

[Reverend Speed]

Question, folks, does anybody else see a difference between games that have just one fixed background per location, eg. Sanitarium or Final Fantasy 7 or Planescape: Torment...

...and games that have multiple camera angles per room, ala Resident Evil 1 or Grim Fandango or Alisa?

I can kinda appreciate the long-distance 'overview' style because it gives you a good sense of a strange or interesting world, but if I'm hanging around there for too long, I get kinda bored of it. I much prefer the fixed multicam approach, where the screen cuts between angles as you move your character around. It can sometimes be a little disorientating, but it feels really exciting and cinematic, and there's some interesting design work required to make it playable, as well as some emerging implications from restricting the player's view like that.

(Sorry if this is a bit of a necro, I just really dig this thread and topic!)

 

[fart town usa]

Lots to choose from but my addition is Resonance of Fate.

 

[Slaylock]

I didn't know there was a day celebrating bumping old threads, but based on the number I've seen today, this must be it.

Happy NecroBump Day!

 

[kiphalfton]

God of War - the thread.

Pics!

 

[jigglet]

Mario Galaxy had the most perfect camera. It was tuned to perfection. Never seen a full 3D game with a fixed camera work so well.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

fixed camera, prerendered background native 8k new resident evil please

 

[Fbh]

Guys you know it's ok to create new threads, right? You don't need to bump 8 years old threads.
But I love fixed camera angles, it's not for every type of game but I really love how it allows devs to create a very specific mood and view. They can often also focus on adding a lot of detail to areas since they don't have to worry about having to make things work from every angle.

There's also some neat gameplay uses. I think more recently Tunic did a great job taking advantage of fixed camera angles.

There's lots of secrets and shortcuts and hidden paths that are simply hidden by the fixed camera angle. Loved finding shortcuts and coming back to an earlier area from behind some tree or something and being like "wow that was there the whole time?"

 

[Jigsaah]

Path of Exile, Diablo series and the original Resident Evil games come to mind.

 

[Xeaker]

I love fixed-camera angles. A shame that barely any game is using them anymore.
And why are people so upset about bumping old threads? Why not if it is the same topic anyway.

Baten Kaitos was nice

Onimusha

Saga Frontier 2

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

They could still be implemented, but at this point the full emphasis of most games is on character action and almost everything else is merely a background, as detailed as it may be. Few games feature a camera that really allows you to enjoy the scenery from interesting angles, and when they want to show you some more significant view, camera control usually shifts to some point you can’t move it to yourself. Yeah, there’s still some great shots to be made, but it’s just not the same thing. It’s rare that a free camera game will let me frame things in a way that is barely more than purely functional. There’s a reason gamers who were there when prerendered backgrounds were all the rage, still remember most of those backgrounds today.

 

[Calverz]

Yes I love it. There were some beautiful fixed camera angles in until dawn of all games.

 

[GymWolf]

I loved it back in the days.

I mean look at this shit

 

[Beer Baelly]

I dont like em in Trek to Yumi

 

[DaGwaphics]

I like fixed/static cameras as long as they don't impede gameplay (like making simple jumps really difficult due to the angle). I'd love to see a future RE game return to the static cameras of old.

They knew how to work the camera to build suspense. Did it make shooting a bit difficult at times, sure. But, I think it made walking around corners feel a lot more dangerous.

 

[Reverend Speed]

Guys you know it's ok to create new threads, right? You don't need to bump 8 years old threads.

Ah, so - basically, I'm a new member, so I can't create new threads. I really wanted to talk about Fixed Camera games and this seemed perfect. =)

Probably worth saying at this point that I run the Fixed Camera Appreciation Society, where I think you can find the most complete (though still wip!) lists of Fixed Camera games on any platform...! (That said, I don't have Resonance of Fate and Mario Galaxy on those lists, must investigate)

Wow, that's a lot of posts. =D

fart town usa - God, I desperately wanted to play Resonance of Fate, but there's two things with most JRPGs that I can't handle - random encounters and invisible party members (Chrono Trigger ruined me, possibly). I picked Resonance up, and I'd love to go back to it at some point, but once my teammembers vanished into my body cavity upon leaving the house, I had to put the pad down. Anyhow.

SlimeGooGoo I think 'presentation style' is part of it, but fixed multicam has some other virtues - it allows the developer to very closely control the amount of situational information the player has (and play with suspense), you can strongly frame the player's interest. As you say the drawback is that sometimes it can be disorientating.

I'm not sure it's less work to do multiple camera angles if it's real-time 3D. You still need to dress the sets, light and texture 'em, etc. You don't have the render times, but something like Tormented Souls looks really pretty in 3D and that didn't come easy...!

Fbh - Maaaaaan, it's ridiculous when you get *into* a topic, you start finding points of distinction. I wouldn't consider Tunic fixed cam, per se, I tend to think of it more as isometric, or an axonometric action adventure. But the player *can't* move the camera around, sooo... Just feels strange to include that game in the same category as something like Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil. Hmm. Like, are traditional Sonic games fixed camera too? I added 'Inside' to our list of Steam games on Fixed Camera Appreciation Society, but I felt that was something of an exception because of the really careful, deliberate camera work in that game. Hmm.

Xeaker - Ooh, Baten Kaitos looks nice. I'll add that to the 'overview' list on the Appreciation Society.

NeoIkaruGAF - Ehh, they're still making them. =D Alisa and Tormented Souls are less than a year old. It's a niche, but it seems fairly healthy.

Calverz - I'd love to play Until Dawn. I have Man of Medan and Little Hope waiting around until I can get some friends together to play them with...

GymWolf - Sorry to keep pushing this game, but if you like how Resi Remake looks, consider taking a look at Tormented Souls. It's actually... pretty damned good. Played through it with a friend and we were both surprised by how good it looked and played. Some fiendish puzzles there.

DaGwaphics - Completely agree.

 

[radewagon]

Excuse me while I gush nostalgic. My favorite fixed camera moments:

• Entering a room, accidentally leaving the room due to the perspective change. Going back into the room. Making the same stupid mistake a second time.
• Enemy comes at me (a hunter most likely). Try to run away. There's a perspective change. Get confused. Time to run towards the enemy instead.
• Mashing buttons while sliding along the walls looking for sparkly things in the environment.

I like fixed camera, but it had serious limitations. I'm okay that it's mostly gone now.

 

[AJUMP23]

Zug zug. Warcraft 2. Old RTS had the fixed angles.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Played some RE0 yesterday, fixed cameras ftw! Besides being gorgeous to look at, they free the player to focus on controlling the character and not worry about controlling the camera, something I've come to appreciate depending on the game/series I'm playing. I prefer the mood fixed camera games usually give off

 

[Fbh]

Fbh - Maaaaaan, it's ridiculous when you get *into* a topic, you start finding points of distinction. I wouldn't consider Tunic fixed cam, per se, I tend to think of it more as isometric, or an axonometric action adventure. But the player *can't* move the camera around, sooo... Just feels strange to include that game in the same category as something like Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil. Hmm. Like, are traditional Sonic games fixed camera too? I added 'Inside' to our list of Steam games on Fixed Camera Appreciation Society, but I felt that was something of an exception because of the really careful, deliberate camera work in that game. Hmm.

I get your point and I agree it's more of an isometric game, though I still think it applies more than Sonic since it's a game with 3D environments and 3D movement but with fixed camera angles as opposed to something like Classic Sonic which is a 2D game. I mostly mentioned it because it came to mind as a recent example of level design and gameplay being enhanced by fixed camera angles.

My actual favorite use of fixed cameras are older JRPG's. I think they are one of the reasons Ps1 and Ps2 era JRPG's had some of the mos visually striking and memorable worlds:

 

[adamsapple]

Tormented Souls is a decent example of a modern fixed camera angle survival horror game.

 

[Reverend Speed]

radewagon - Weeealll, mashing the 'use' button in that way, some would say the same of Doom back in the day. Most modern fixed cam games don't do that either. =D
Regards the first perspective change issue - that's usually down to camera-relative controls and two opposing camera angles, which isn't exactly best practices for fixed cams. Honestly, there might also be some input innovations that can overcome that issue... and if you feel like using tank controls, it's not a problem at all. =D

AJUMP23 - Yep. That's why I tend to think Fixed Camera as a term is most usefully applied to games in 3D with a somewhat cinematic approach. I mean, if we're just talking about cameras the player can't affect directly, I might as well reference Space War...!

ProgenitorCastle - Ayyy, agreed. If you really dig 'em, consider joining the Fixed Camera Appreciation Society. =P

Fbh - I get your point that Tunic is made from 3D assets, but given the model it was seeking to emulate was 2D emulating 3D anyhooo... (plenty of secrets hidden behind rocks and plants there...!)

I dunno. It's a tricky one. I do see your argument that Tunic gets a lot out of using a fixed camera in order to obfuscate and surprise.

Maybe I need to find another term for the games I tend to mean when I say 'fixed camera'. I've recently started using 'fixed multicam', implying that there has to be multiple camera angles per room in order to qualify.

(Love the Chrono Cross image! We do include JRPG-style overviews on the Fixed Camera Appreciation Society, but we've kinda broken them of into their own list on the discussion forum (as Steam Groups can't have multiple lists of 'Associated Games'))

adamsapple - Tormented Souls is very decent indeed. Relatively little pivot cam (pet peeve of mine), some nice dolly shots. In a way I'd prefer more static camera angles because it feels like more 'decisive' direction than where you can just wander around, but still, I had an absolute ball with it.

 

[Apocryphon]

REmake still looks amazing

I really enjoyed the Fear Effect games on PSone too.

 

[emivita]

I loved it back in the days.

I mean look at this shit

Probably the only example in videogames history where the remake beats the original literally in every department... even the Save Room theme was better in the remake. I recently replayed it on Real Survival difficulty, what a blast!

Oh, and Julia Voth is the best Jill Valentine of course.

 

[Reverend Speed]

Apocryphon - Fear Effect looks far, far better than it has any right to given how simple the texturing and lighting treatment on the characters is. Fantastic stuff.