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[Louis Cyphre]

Sony is an entertainment company who no longer needs to win a format war, so of course they don't need a camera included because outside of game consoles what use would they have in making it mandatory? Bluray on the PS3 was a necessity that was forced on the consumer because they had vested interests outside of gaming to make sure it was adopted.

For whatever reason Microsoft is committed with Kinect. They likely want it in every box not just so that every developer knows all XBox One owners have one but it's also likely a means to try and gain control of your living room. Voice and motion can be applied to more than just games.

 

[JaseC]

I thought that they did say that the decision was made fairly late not to include the camera in order to get the price down to $399.99? Your comment isn't controversial, I don't think.

I haven't been following the matter closely so I'm not entirely sure, but I've read claims to the contrary -- claims which lack sources, mind you, but claims all the same.

 

[rouken]

You know what else is anti-consumer, Sony?

oops

 

[travisbickle]

I'm sure the xbo1's price announcement solidified their decision.

Sony probably had it as backup to match feature parity but when their competitor turned up with a $500 machine they thought better to add it as an option to really drive home the difference in price. The twitch streaming with a camera is a bit of a curveball and might be more popular than we think.

 

[Aostia]

probably a PR spin to contrast Kinect, but hey...I agree.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

You're damn right!

 

[RE_Player]

I'm tempted to go on media/PR blackout for these console launches. I can't take another sentence in an interview or PR statement being made into a thread.

I just want these machines to be out so we can start having the interesting threads... the post launch PR responses and sales bragging.

 

[Doomshroom]

I dont know and i dont care. I dont care about the 100$ extra all i know is i will never buy the Xbox one until they drop the camera. I dont want it in my house.

 

[PogiJones]

They're factually correct, but they didn't explain that more choice is not always better. Universal adoption creates utility for a device that is otherwise worthless. There were many motion controllers before the Wii, but they were all accessories, and none took off. The Wii removed that choice, devs had to use the Wiimote, and so the Wiimote found FAR more utility than any previous motion controller.

Same thing with cameras and accelerometers in iPhones. The ubiquity of those accessories ensured a market for devs to program for them without worrying about splitting their demographic and losing profits.

That's not to say Kinect will get enough utility to justify the extra cost, but Sony should at least address the full equation. No camera = choice. Y = 10. Great, that tells us nothing useful. Now tell us how Y compares to X, and why you think Y > X. Sony's ignoring the merits of forced inclusion and just riding on the comfy word "choice" to do their marketing for them.

 

[FlyFaster]

I'm happy it's not included.

 

[michaelius]

And nothing of value was lost here.

 

[I should be doing hw]

They're factually correct, but they didn't explain that more choice is not always better. Universal adoption creates utility for a device that is otherwise worthless. There were many motion controllers before the Wii, but they were all accessories, and none took off. The Wii removed that choice, devs had to use the Wiimote, and so the Wiimote found FAR more utility than any previous motion controller.

The Wii U says hi. Not even Nintendo can come up with anything interesting for the Gamepad.

 

[Darknight34]

Time will tell if it was a good move or not. From a sales perspective, I think it could be pretty bad. But from a creative point of view, who knows? They have nothing at launch to justify it, but the fact it's mandatory makes it a bet on a long term. That was the only way to get real support for it and I credit MS for it.

I still prefer the PS4, with Move and Vita support, Sony's vision seems second to none.

Love this, I agree. Who knows, but long term the attachment of the kinect2 to the xbox may really mean something. Right now it's potential innovation (a lot?), and very little substance. The ps4 experience is very clear where it's going and what it will be.

I'm still buying an xbox, but it's for exclusives.

 

[PogiJones]

The Wii U says hi. Not even Nintendo can come up with anything interesting for the Gamepad.

Right; ubiquity is no guarantee of successful accessory utilization, but it's one of the primary needed ingredients, with few substitutes. Hence why I said:

That's not to say Kinect will get enough utility to justify the extra cost

Just as more choice does not always equate to better, more choice doesn't always equate to worse, either.

FWIW, I've loved being able to play Wind Waker HD off-TV while my wife watches her TV shows. But there's no doubt that many people don't value the second screen as much as I do.

 

[liger05]

You know what else is anti-consumer, Sony?

Nailed it!!

 

[Mohonky]

No. Sony have never forced extra crap. They weren't going to do it this time either.

Hows that SD card working in your vita for you?

 

[Sword Of Doom]

If it's all about choice they shouldn't be making their controllers proprietary and price-gouging on it either, among other things. Homogenization is the biggest strength of consoles and by making cameras an option you might as well have no camera at all. Just like pretty much every add-on that's come along on prior systems.

They have a point but so has MS - my opinion is that you have to bundle that stuff to ensure a large install base and give devs a reason to implement features for it. We will see how it will pan out for MS but I'm optimistic. The OS level stuff is neat. (Automatic login, automatic control scheme loading etc...)

The camera should be an option. And the kinect 1 sold 24 million units at least and what came of it? People threw it into their closets. You would think with that many units sold, developers would have made titles worth playing but obviously they didn't. So why should it be forced upon everyone? If consumers are not into gaming with their cameras then bundling it with the console will not change that.

 

[Nymphae]

Out of curiosity, how did you choose your phone, or your PC, or your TV?

Looked at available options, chose the phone/PC/TV that suited my needs. How else would one choose a product?

 

[freezamite]

What the hell?? If Microsoft wants the Kinect to be an integral part of the system of course it has to be "forced" to consumers.
As forced as their mandatory HDD when Nintendo offers the possibility to use any HDD through their USB, so criticizing that is a bit of a nonsense to me.

 

[gamerforever]

To be honest Sony couldn't have directly competed with MS in relation to their cameras so I doubt they would have seriously thought about including it with every console.

Fantastic choice and one that has put MS in a very weak position.

Who on here will even use a camera anyway?

Sony are sending a clear message that there's no messing around this time and everything is about the games and gamers, not how they can push marketing or casual titles on to us.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Sony is an entertainment company who no longer needs to win a format war, so of course they don't need a camera included because outside of game consoles what use would they have in making it mandatory? Bluray on the PS3 was a necessity that was forced on the consumer because they had vested interests outside of gaming to make sure it was adopted.

For whatever reason Microsoft is committed with Kinect. They likely want it in every box not just so that every developer knows all XBox One owners have one but it's also likely a means to try and gain control of your living room. Voice and motion can be applied to more than just games.

Kinect is a huge reason Microsoft continued to sell 360 consoles over the past couple of years. It's a no brainer to include kinect 2.0 in the xbone. The PS cameras have always been unsuccesful, so why would Sony include it with the PS4? It'll always be a niche item. It doesn't offer the same innovation as Kinect.

 

[Miss Riot]

To be honest Sony couldn't have directly competed with MS in relation to their cameras so I doubt they would have seriously thought about including it with every console.

this is exactly one of the two reasons why they axed it.

 

[Krisars]

Thank god for the title change.

 

[Meier]

their choice was because they had to hit $399 and it was set in stone from a long time ago. camera had to go to make that price point guys.

Microsoft could learn a thing or two from them. $500 isn't a palatable entry point for anyone but early adopters.

 

[walltowall]

Looked at available options, chose the phone/PC/TV that suited my needs. How else would one choose a product?

And you can do exactly the same with a next gen platform. If Xbox One does not suit your needs you're not forced to buy it. Sony's platform will be there a week earlier/later and may suit your needs better, it is your choice.

 

[walltowall]

Microsoft could learn a thing or two from them. $500 isn't a palatable entry point for anyone but early adopters.

Amen to that. At $299 both systems would be selling in iPad territory.

 

[Nymphae]

And you can do exactly the same with a next gen platform. If Xbox One does not suit your needs you're not forced to buy it. Sony's platform will be there a week earlier/later and may suit your needs better, it is your choice.

Right, but saying MS is offering "the ultimate in consumer choice" is a little crazy. Options are better than no options.

 

[Skilletor]

What the hell?? If Microsoft wants the Kinect to be an integral part of the system of course it has to be "forced" to consumers.
As forced as their mandatory HDD when Nintendo offers the possibility to use any HDD through their USB, so criticizing that is a bit of a nonsense to me.

Nothing I play will ever use kinect. Why should I be forced to buy it?

 

[Ubiquitar]

Sony hit it on the head as far as this is concerned. I am one of those customers who want a choice in the matter. I will not buy a product and pay more money if it is bundled with something I don't want. MS lost my business because of this poor choice (and a lot of other choices frankly).

 

[freezamite]

Nothing I play will ever use kinect. Why should I be forced to buy it?

Yeah, and nothing I will do on my console will take more than a few GB of space of it (mandatory installations ftw) but if I buy a PS4 they charge me with a mandatory 500 GB hard drive.
If you're interested on the kinect or not its all in you, you choose freely if you want to pay for this or not, what I'm saying is not to be so hypocrites as to present the most conservative solution in terms of gamepads included as the one that protects consumer's rights, because that's not how it works.

Putting the kinnect on the package is like putting a hard-drive or a stronger GPU, and it has nothing to do with consumer rights.

 

[Bundy]

Yeah, how exactly do you reconcile that statement with PS Vita's proprietary shits?

Happens when 90% of the PSP owners are pirating their games :/

 

[Skilletor]

Yeah, and nothing I will do on my console will take more than a few GB of space of it (mandatory installations ftw) but if I buy a PS4 they charge me with a mandatory 500 GB hard drive.
If you're interested on the kinect or not its all in you, you choose freely if you want to pay for this or not, what I'm saying is not to be so hypocrites as to present the most conservative solution in terms of gamepads included as the one that protects consumer's rights, because that's not how it works.

Putting the kinnect on the package is like putting a hard-drive or a stronger GPU, and it has nothing to do with consumer rights.

This post makes no sense to me.

And, again, I've never said anything about consumer rights. And neither did Sony. We're talking about choice.

 

[Mondriaan]

It's a camera, not a choice. Cameras are people too!

Seriously, though, it's more fair (e.g. not having people who don't want peripherals end up subsidizing the peripheral for the people who do)..

 

[SwiftDeath]

This thread is still going strong I see

Anything interesting in here?

Seems fairly obvious that to the consumer more choice is a good thing

 

[walltowall]

Right, but saying MS is offering "the ultimate in consumer choice" is a little crazy. Options are better than no options.

Sorry perhaps I was not clear. The ultimate consumer choice is to buy the product or not.
MS is offering a platform full of features and so is Sony. It's our choice to speak with our wallets.

 

[SHADES]

They've shown a lot of ways to use the new Kinect, and many games use it exclusively. I'm actually glad they're pushing it this hard so Kinect is part of the machine. That way I know I'm not throwing money at a camera that devs neglect or are afraid to use.

You could argue that you don't want the camera so it shouldn't be in the machine to start, but there's a huge difference between not wanting to use a part and excluding at the sacrifice of potential development and usage. PS-EYE for PS4 sounded less integrated/planned/promoted. For XB1, it's being promoted a huge amount, so it makes sense to be part of the system (and it's used as part of the system anyways).

"Many games that use it exclusively" Wow! I must of missed all of those, tell me more please.


Fighter within & kinect sports rivals are the only 2 I can think of?

 

[KaYotiX]

I wonder why SONY even bothered making the PS4 Eye anyways, if its not bundled its just a waste of $$ to even make yet alone develop for.

 

[Redshirt]

Another issue with the PS4 Eye is that it compares so unfavorably to Kinect 2.0. I suspect that had as much to do with the decision as anything.

 

[Iacobellis]

I wonder why SONY even bothered making the PS4 Eye anyways, if its not bundled its just a waste of $$ to even make yet alone develop for.

Voice commands, dude.

Voice commands.

 

[Nibiru]

Is it even possible to spin those as a good thing?

The Vita hasn't been hacked to shit like PSP was. Imo that is a very good thing.

 

[Iacobellis]

The Vita hasn't been hacked to shit like PSP was. Imo that is a very good thing.

I think that leans more towards the small install base rather than the uncommon storage media.

 

[FyreWulff]

The Vita hasn't been hacked to shit like PSP was. Imo that is a very good thing.

Storage media doesn't have much to do with protecting against being homebrewed. It's almost entirely about not exposing your encryption keys in stupid ways.

Anybody can listen in on the wire traffic between those cards and the Vita, no matter what format they're actually in.

 

[DangerDave]

I would love a Xbone with no bluray drive and no kinect for 249 or 299 just for the few exclusives it's going to have (Halo and Forza). Weren't they going to do a driveless 360 a while ago?

 

[inner-G]

Cerny knows better, there's no way they planned a mandatory camera.

 

[Cartman86]

Fuck this corporate marketing noise.

 

[painful fart]

I wonder why SONY even bothered making the PS4 Eye anyways, if its not bundled its just a waste of $$ to even make yet alone develop for.

My kids love dance game and such stuff, so it's useful if you want to play those games.

 

[davidbloop]

Forcing a camera is against consumer choice because it limits choices.

I don't understand what's left to discuss about these statements.

 

[Night Angel]

"Giving consumers a choice is good for consumer choice."

News at 11.

I agree, though. If I could get an XB1 without a Kinect, I would do so in a heartbeat. Too bad I'm a sucker and need consoles at launch (except the Wii-U... if it gets an exclusive MH I'll have to buy one, though).

 

[VanWinkle]

I wonder why SONY even bothered making the PS4 Eye anyways, if its not bundled its just a waste of $$ to even make yet alone develop for.

Yeah I don't understand why any companies make peripherals that don't come with the system. There definitely weren't hundreds of Move and Kinect games developed despite those coming out 4-5 years into their systems' lifecycles. This is available at launch and $100 cheaper than Kinect was - no way games will be made available for it.

 

[Nibiru]

Storage media doesn't have much to do with protecting against being homebrewed. It's almost entirely about not exposing your encryption keys in stupid ways.

Anybody can listen in on the wire traffic between those cards and the Vita, no matter what format they're actually in.

Of course it can be done but even then it is very clunky and hardly even works. The format matters a great deal to accessibility and ease to which it is done. With the psp you download some files throw on a memstick and your done. Anything that adds more steps and increases the knowledge base needed reduces accessibility a great deal.

I buy one large storage card and that's that. It holds many games way more than I actually would play at one time and delete if i need more room. I have to do this with my 80gb ps3 all the time. I think much of the belly aching is way overblown.