Not necessarily a great deal of sense, just more sense than Microsoft.
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Forced Camera inclusion "against consumer choice"' Says Sony
- Thread starter fantomena
- Start date
Not necessarily a great deal of sense, just more sense than Microsoft.
Nymphae
Banned
What if I want a PS3 without Blu Ray?
What if I want an iPhone without Bluetooth?
What if I want a Ferrari with a smaller engine?
Yeah, funny how Kinect support has been worse now that they've bundled it with the system, rather than better.
That said there are a couple Xbox One Kinect titles that will make the launch. I think it's some shoddy looking fighting game and (surprise) a couple fitness titles. Ironically Microsoft is about to murder whatever market there might be for fitness games on the system, and that's one of the only genres Kinect is any good at.
walltowall
Member
Out of curiosity, how did you choose your phone, or your PC, or your TV?
simplythebest
Banned
Your posts always come through.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I guess I disagree because choice is about intent. MS is casting a far wider net than Sony is when PS4 seems, prelaunch, anyway, to be aiming straight at gamers while MS is embracing a living room computer which also acts as a gaming console. Different value propositions. Sony will benefit by their choice and MS will with theirs, though one will obviously sell more than another, they don't offer the same things even if the Kinect isn't part of the picture.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Heh. Seems like they nixed having the camera in the box to reduce costs and now they're using it against MS to use as a bullet point in their favor. Can't say I blame them, but let's not pretend this is anything but that.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I highly doubt Sony's decision stemmed from a consumer-choice perspective, but I'm glad it worked out the way it did. Forcing Kinect in the Xbone is one of the many dealbreakers for me on that machine.
WrongSider
Banned
Pretty much this, so tired of all the bitching about Kinect.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Other offenses don't excuse how shitty its forced inclusion is.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
And with that choice, you don't have much choice of games to buy for the camera when you choose to buy it.
It's obviously a last minute thing to bring the price down, the lightbar is still on the controller.
It's obviously a last minute thing to bring the price down, the lightbar is still on the controller.
Neander
Member
It's no longer an accessory or a peripheral. It's an integral part of the system now. Voice recognition (Cortana being the personal assistant in the future), more precise hand and body recognition, IR blaster to control your other devices etc... The best way to ensure support and a consistent experience is to include it.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Of course they would say this.
I thought that they did say that the decision was made fairly late not to include the camera in order to get the price down to $399.99? Your comment isn't controversial, I don't think.
And it is STILL the right decision even if the motivation was purely price. I do want the cheaper priced console, because Kinect is dead-end gaming technology. If the technology offered actually had utility for most genres and didn't actively make most genres worse like kinect, I wouldn't mind paying more money.
staticneuron
Member
You know what else is anti-consumer, Sony?
Well.....
Sony provides options. It is up to the consumer to choose if they want it or not. Offering something a consumer might not want or at a price range they might not want is not anti consumer choice.
10-15 USD loss over millions of purchases is a lot of money...
With the new Vita with 1gb internal memory cards are not needed, people can choose not to use them and stick with retail games, using the internal 1gb for game saves.
staticneuron
Member
Memory is needed to play games. Just because you have the "choice" to purchase additional memory doesn't negate the fact that there is inherent value in the built in memory.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
All of that means squat if the games still fail to utilize the camera in compelling ways. I have zero faith in them but we'll see I guess.
I can still search without Kinect. I can still turn on my Xbox without Kinect. I can still Skype without Kinect (voice). I can still turn on my devices without Kinect. I don't know enough about snap and Xbox Guide, but I would be shocked if you couldn't snap or use the Guide without Kinect. You aren't giving me a compelling reaso as to why Kinect is required. Those seem more like how Kinect can makes things easier.
Time will tell if it was a good move or not. From a sales perspective, I think it could be pretty bad. But from a creative point of view, who knows? They have nothing at launch to justify it, but the fact it's mandatory makes it a bet on a long term. That was the only way to get real support for it and I credit MS for it.
I still prefer the PS4, with Move and Vita support, Sony's vision seems second to none.
I still prefer the PS4, with Move and Vita support, Sony's vision seems second to none.
Was talking about how people keep comparing Kinect to the Wii. One was 250 and offered a paradigm shifting pack-in. The other is 500 and is offering the same kinds of games that can be found on its predecessor. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the casuals don't give a shit about a machine that costs 500 bucks.
Okay? How are those Windows tablets doing? Consumer reception of Windows 8? Vista? GFWL?
All the market research in the world means jack if it's for a product people don't want.
And no, I'm not saying the XB1 is a product people don't want. I'm sure it will be fine in the long run.
This right here.
moai
Member
Oh how the tune has changed. Now
not_so_special
Banned
sorry but no,no matter how sony fucked up on the past they are making the right things now,microsoft on the other hand.....
wishfull thinking?
DagnastyEp
Member
It's great that Sony is giving gamers this choice, as there's probably a large number of them who don't care about that kind of input device, and it also helps them to come in at a lower price point. Unfortunately, (to me) it seems like they're putting the PS4 Camera out there to die.
Voice and gesture control have been mentioned, but never discussed or demoed. With 2 months left, they really haven't show any of the capabilities of the camera, and it doesn't seem like there's any games that will take advantage of it. They can't expect to sell many cameras is no one knows what it's even going to be good for. As it stands right now, I can't see a single reason why someone would pick up a PS4 Camera at launch.
Voice and gesture control have been mentioned, but never discussed or demoed. With 2 months left, they really haven't show any of the capabilities of the camera, and it doesn't seem like there's any games that will take advantage of it. They can't expect to sell many cameras is no one knows what it's even going to be good for. As it stands right now, I can't see a single reason why someone would pick up a PS4 Camera at launch.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Only if there was a $299 version without the cameras.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Regardless of what your own personal measure of the value is and predicted market performance, to say that a model based on proven success that no one has ever labled as anti consumer choice could now be seen as such because a co.peting business defines it as so is hard to take seriously at least and down right deceptive at best.
they didnt give me much of a choice as far as purchasing a controller that doesnt include the PSMove technology thus forcing me to pay potentially more for a feature that i'll never use.
lol and for that matter they didnt give me much of a choice by not offering a SKU without the Bluray drive given that should have the option to go all digital this generation.
but maybe i'm just nitpicking
pay no mind.
lol and for that matter they didnt give me much of a choice by not offering a SKU without the Bluray drive given that should have the option to go all digital this generation.
but maybe i'm just nitpicking
pay no mind.AdlaiSeven
Member
Where is my choice in buying a console w/ a controller without a LED light on it Sony?
Last time I checked, Microsoft is removing the function of the Xbone not working when it wasn't hooked up to the Kinect. You can try to use some sort of false equivalency, but Kinect is not needed for the Xbone to work, however, MS is still forcing you to buy it. Don't understand why people aren't getting the concept.
Yeah, so why do people keep defending Kinect? It sold 24 million yet had no worthwhile software. There's no reason to think that they will make any for the next Kinect on Xbox One, especially when considering that they haven't shown off anything that would make it seem like a worthwhile accessory or a good reason to buy an Xbox One.
You'd think that they would want to promote it since it's included with every Xbox One, and their main competitor, PS4, doesn't come with it.
Even one of the Kinect only launch games was redesigned to a regular control scheme (Ryse.).
It's "crappy" for you and a bunch of other people.
It's inclusion is a boon for me and a bunch of other people who want to see it get more dev support.
We can argue about who is the larger group (honesty, probably the group you belong to), but to label the forced inclusion as 100% bad is not accurate.
soul creator
Member
Some people disagree about the "no worthwhile software" part. (note: it doesn't have to be "omg, amazing and revolutionary" in order to have worthwhile software and uses)
Of course, there are plenty of people that didn't like it either, and that's fine.
They've shown plenty of things that make me glad it's included with the Xbox One (note: not all of these features are "full, kinect-only" games, but the whole point is that Kinect can do more than that)
They have promoted it. Of course, if someone is not interested in those features, that's totally fine, and everyone's personal opinion. But they have shown lots of things it can do.
Ok. Thankfully, "kinect-required full body waggle" usage is not the only possible use case for Kinect.
Anyone who seriously thought that Sony would go $500+ again like they did with the PS3 are out of their minds, especially when they lost a ton of money off of PS3 due to it.
The camera had to go.
I agree, the Xbox 360 was only bought for Kinect within most people since November 2011. And the install base for 360 was at about 45 million before it came.
They're not gonna be successful with it a second time.
The camera had to go.
I agree, the Xbox 360 was only bought for Kinect within most people since November 2011. And the install base for 360 was at about 45 million before it came.
They're not gonna be successful with it a second time.
Really? Banking on two failed pieces of hardware is a second-to-none vision? Really?
Iacobellis
Junior Member
So they can actually play The Playroom. I think the voice commands could deliver, even if they won't be as good as what Xbox One will support.
Randolph Freelander
Member
And thank goodness for no forced camera.
Sony got this part right.
Sony got this part right.
The PS4 camera being sold separately would only be anti-consumer if it was a required component. e.g The Vita's memory card. That's not the case, so having it as an optional extra is best for everyone.
I'll be buying the Killzone + 2nd Controller + Camera bundle, as I think the PS4 camera stuff I've seen looks neat. But I'm sure I'm in the minority, which is fair enough. Getting it in the bundle is the cheapest way to get the camera too, rather than picking one up later down the line.
Conversely, I haven't seen a single real world example of the new Kinect that interests me, yet will be forced to buy one when I eventually pick up a 'bone. Sucks to be me.
They've shown a lot of ways to use the new Kinect, and many games use it exclusively. I'm actually glad they're pushing it this hard so Kinect is part of the machine. That way I know I'm not throwing money at a camera that devs neglect or are afraid to use.
You could argue that you don't want the camera so it shouldn't be in the machine to start, but there's a huge difference between not wanting to use a part and excluding at the sacrifice of potential development and usage. PS-EYE for PS4 sounded less integrated/planned/promoted. For XB1, it's being promoted a huge amount, so it makes sense to be part of the system (and it's used as part of the system anyways).
You could argue that you don't want the camera so it shouldn't be in the machine to start, but there's a huge difference between not wanting to use a part and excluding at the sacrifice of potential development and usage. PS-EYE for PS4 sounded less integrated/planned/promoted. For XB1, it's being promoted a huge amount, so it makes sense to be part of the system (and it's used as part of the system anyways).
highrider
Banned
I think kinect and the ps camera are cool, but haven't put out anything that interests me enough to buy it.
With kinect I don't really know how integral it is or isn't to the ui, but I don't particularly want that. I'm happy with the more traditional interface. So it swayed me to ps4 even before considering specs. I'm still excited for the new xbox, but I would need to see how it plays out over a couple years. I have my 360 for my halo fix.
Good call by Sony, but they didn't really need to say it.
With kinect I don't really know how integral it is or isn't to the ui, but I don't particularly want that. I'm happy with the more traditional interface. So it swayed me to ps4 even before considering specs. I'm still excited for the new xbox, but I would need to see how it plays out over a couple years. I have my 360 for my halo fix.
Good call by Sony, but they didn't really need to say it.
