timetokill
Banned
This is also why Sony didn't include a HD cable in the box with the PS3. It's all about consumer choice, yo!
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Forced Camera inclusion "against consumer choice"' Says Sony
- Thread starter fantomena
- Start date
Good thing he never said anti-consumer.
This is the TC's fault for deliberately lying about what was said in the interview (and very few people actually reading the interview), but the Sony guy never said MS was anti-consumer. They merely said forcing the camera was anti-choice. It is. And again, Sony knows a lot about shitting the bed by forcing expensive peripherals.
They are a tech company. They have to make money somehow and protect their products.
the very idea of consoles is to make consumers an initial offer they can't refuse in order to ensnare them in your walled garden where the only choices offered to them are the ones you give them. see paid multiplayer.
i get that you're all excited about the PS4, but you'd have to be a particularly myopic sycophant to retcon sony into being some kind of consumer paragon.
i get that you're all excited about the PS4, but you'd have to be a particularly myopic sycophant to retcon sony into being some kind of consumer paragon.
Please read what I post again. I said Kinect is required for the console to have full functionality.
You answered your own question. No, it's not the same. The fact that you can transfer licenses to new hardware is the complete opposite of what Nintendo does.
NYShotgun06
Neo Member
Sorry to hear. Never went through that process with the Xbox.
Prince Vultan
Banned
You'd possibly have a point if Forza 5 actually came with every Xbone, as opposed to just coming with preordered consoles. People who were always going to be buying the console anyway getting a free game isn't going to be much of a factor to people actually comparing how much these things cost on the shelves in time for christmas and see the PS4 is the much cheaper option.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Perhaps you were cynical then, and have the perspective of hindsight now, but you can't deny that a lot of people felt that Kinect was a revolutionary device when it was first announced. That's why the bulk of its sales were so front loaded.
I don't think it had enough support. Nothing remotely like D4 was ever seen on the 360. Third party devs simply didn't want to take the risk of limiting their base to only those that had the device.
While you clearly need the tactile feel of a controller, it's very clear that there were and still are many gamers who want the Kinect to live up to its potential.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
And they are completely right
Garrett 2U
Member
Haha, oh Sony, you know just the words to trigger a reaction 
Then they can make their own micro SD cards and sell them as "Official Vita Memory Card"s. Nintendo is in the same position, but the 3DS uses a standard SD card. I never hear about massive piracy problems there. Their console can store games on SD cards too.
My gut tells me that this is just a case of Sony telling people what they want to hear. There is a backlash on the forums against the inclusion of Kinect and something like this helps stoke the fire and helps paint Sony as the corporation that's on your side. As others have pointed out it is much more likely that Sony was set to include the camera but had to cut it to get the price of the system down. This makes sense, but it's not nearly as impactful as trying to present it as pro-consumer choice. That's business/marketing for you. If MS were in their shoes they would probably be presenting this the same way.
Haha, oh Sony, you know just the words to trigger a reaction
You mean the thread creator does. Since the interview doesn't say anti-consumer.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
They really didn't. What a terribly sensationalized headline. They barely even implied that in the actual quote. But hey....
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Have you ever even owned a console? There's a reason they're viable and it goes way beyond just sales. If it hurts your feelings then let me know but Sony is doing many things right with PS4 and offering choice when it comes to the camera. I won't get into the rest since this thread is about the camera mainly.
I get the feeling we will be saying the same thing 5 years from now when we still want to enjoy games with controllers instead of a forced peripheral. I will be using it as well when I get an Xbone but that's not really the point nor does it validate the device.
Voice functionality (search, snap, Xbox Guide, "Xbox On"), Skype, and the IR blaster for a few.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Good point, and I notice the Xbox One bundle is sold out anyway.
Haha, oh Sony, you know just the words to trigger a reaction
Sony didn't use the words in the title btw.
You know what else is anti-consumer, Sony?
Shhhhhhh you guys!
What are you doing?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Haha, oh Sony, you know just the words to trigger a reaction
If you replace Sony with topic creator then you would be right.
Those are 2 blemishes but what does that say about the industry when MSFT has been charging for online without doing much with their XBL service compared to how Sony has built a service that many find redeeming?
The memory card thing, I absolutely agree but we've had that thread already so bringing that up makes someone seem hurt about this as it derails the conversation. That's why we have separate threads for separate news.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yeah, what kind of consumer wants a cheaper option? Typical Sony BS.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Fess
Member
You can transfer your licenses to new Nintendo hardware too, manually with Nintendo's help, just like I had to do with the 360 at first. MS made it easier though, once they realized how many customers were affected by broken consoles. I haven't had to do that with Nintendo hardware yet though, only when going from 3DS to 3DSXL and Wii to WiiU with the automatic transfer.
Are there rules against deliberately lying in a topic subject-line just to generate a flamewar?
Not even remotely the same thing. If your 360 dies, you buy a new one and transfer licenses from the Internet. No calls to MS. If your 3DS is lost or stolen, you call Nintendo and beg them. BEG THEM to let you replace what was lost. And then they force you to either ship them your dead 3DS or provide a police report. On 360/PS3 if you want to play your digital games on someone else's 360/PS3, it's a simple process. On a Nintendo device it's an impossibility. It's a huge difference.
Not even remotely the same thing. If your 360 dies, you buy a new one and transfer licenses from the Internet. No calls to MS. If your 3DS is lost or stolen, you call Nintendo and beg them. BEG THEM to let you replace what was lost. And then they force you to either ship them your dead 3DS or provide a police report. On 360/PS3 if you want to play your digital games on someone else's 360/PS3, it's a simple process. On a Nintendo device it's an impossibility. It's a huge difference.
Monty Mole
Member
Forza 5 and FIFA 14 for £429 I thought?
Thanks for the info; I just read the OP and didn't read the interview.
BruiserBear
Banned
and so many consumers are still angry about this decision!
Neander
Member
Ironically, most of those (except IR blaster) requires and internet connection. Even Sony admitted that to get the most functionality out of the PS4 you have to be online. It is what it is.
JinjoUnchained
Member
My eyes read this as "FIXED camera anti-consumer", as in a 3d game where the camera follows you and you can't alter it with the right analog. I guess I'm so used to classic Play Station 3D platfomers where you are CONSTANTLY rotating the camera, so a fixed camera would be somehow "anti-consumer"
Back to OP, "FORCED camera" in XBone is in no way anti-consumer. Doesn't the phrase "anti-consumer" imply some sort of false advertising? MS has based the whole user experience of XBone on Kinect and has been very upfront about it, so there's nothing anti-consumer going on here. Typical Sony PR flame war BS, i.e. "rumble is last gen" or "people will get two jobs to get a PS3".
Back to OP, "FORCED camera" in XBone is in no way anti-consumer. Doesn't the phrase "anti-consumer" imply some sort of false advertising? MS has based the whole user experience of XBone on Kinect and has been very upfront about it, so there's nothing anti-consumer going on here. Typical Sony PR flame war BS, i.e. "rumble is last gen" or "people will get two jobs to get a PS3".
What a horrible move by the OP.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Nope, it'sF5 or Fifa 14. Not both.
Neuromancer
Member
Ignoring the wildly misleading thread title, I say good for them. I'm buying a PS4 camera because I want one, but I don't think people should be forced into buying one if they don't want it.
H_Prestige
Banned
When did Sony become my internet service provider?
CadetMahoney
Member
elcuervo75
Banned
Forced proprietary memory cards that are 4x the cost of a SD card.
Forced online multiplayer fees.
I agree with Sony, but I also agree with the above.
Forced online multiplayer fees.
I agree with Sony, but I also agree with the above.
gee, how this argument would have gone down in PS3 threads a year ago.
Cow Goes Moo
Member
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
They aren't completely without blame but they started off by giving us a choice and built their service while MSFT charged from the initial offering of XBL on 360.
They definitely should not. That's the kind of thinking that would've made sony going with stupid anti-consumer DRM okay just because MS did it.
Yeah, you're only offering "choice" when your competitor has something you don't.
If I recall correctly, Microsoft may have said something similar when people asked them why X360 didn't initially ship with a wireless adapter. PR wars.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
I wonder if Sony was paying attention to the fact that the industry was saying the reason for the initial Wii Remote success was guaranteed fact that it was in every box and that the reason for the move support not being so prevalent was because it was an optional peripheral.
I get how not everyone wants Kinect functionality and how some people feeling that they won't use it makes it seem like a feature that they don't want to pay for but you cannot name any electronic devices (except for the simplest devices) that has features that people use 100% of. It's even more silly to make the claim of Kinect 2 being an add-on that should be optional since the console was designed around many of Kinect 2's feature-set of which the camera is only one of.
This seems more like Sony attempting to stoke the fires of peoples fears of camera and also making it seem like their optional device has feature parity which is false.
The statement feels anti-consumer in the level of deception.
I get how not everyone wants Kinect functionality and how some people feeling that they won't use it makes it seem like a feature that they don't want to pay for but you cannot name any electronic devices (except for the simplest devices) that has features that people use 100% of. It's even more silly to make the claim of Kinect 2 being an add-on that should be optional since the console was designed around many of Kinect 2's feature-set of which the camera is only one of.
This seems more like Sony attempting to stoke the fires of peoples fears of camera and also making it seem like their optional device has feature parity which is false.
The statement feels anti-consumer in the level of deception.
Gotta love it when a big manufacturer (On both side) relies on shooting down their competitors choices instead of letting their own hardware and games speak for themselves. Either Sony is very confident, or they are feeling more pressure than they would like this close to launch.
Fess
Member
Like I said I had to call MS the first time. They made the automatic transfer system after lots of 360s started to break down. Nintendo haven't had that problem yet. But I agree that they're far behind on that today though, they should have the Wii to WiiU license transfer system available for WiiU to WiiU too.
Most weren't; MS was.