Support NeoGAF

[2th]

No wonder our prisons are full

cause that has nothing to do with the number of violent offenders at all right?

 

[Wazzim]

Will we see the Congress talking about this in the near future (between now and next week)?

 

[HeySeuss]

I know that you most likely have no reason to lie but I have a hard time believe that it isn't.

It could be widespread through the large departments of similar size as NYPD, but normal departments facing budget restraints and possible layoffs can't take the risk of having the department completely shut down, which is what can happen.

I also understand the budget restraints would make it seem more likely to institute quotas but the risk is too great. But understand, just because a handful of officers at a local department like to write as many tickets as they possibly can, it doesn't mean they have a quota.

 

[Effect]

I thought quotas were a myth.

Nope. In addition to this travel the highways in the US. At certain times of the months you'll see a LOT more state troopers then usual. Filling those quotas.

 

[RSLAEV]

i'd love to hear the logic behind having arrest quotas.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was some sort of population control designed to keep a certain percentage of the lower class locked up at all times.

 

[Dominican Power]

This is nothing new for The NYPD.

 

[Mudkips]

+1

Where is pro-police/conservative gaf they're always missing in these threads but love to chime in other crime related ones and act like this shit doesn't happen.

So your complaint is that people who often defend the police (when they do something else you disagree with) are not defending them now? Do you want them to come defend the police just so you can bitch about it?

Seems to me that all this shows is that your idea of "pro-police/conservative gaf" was completely off base. They aren't picking sides and blindly screaming either "fuck the police", "Dude deserved it, good on the cop".

The reason people who often defend police actions aren't in here defending these actions is not because they're afraid to show their face. It's not because they've been proven wrong.

It's because they consider each event and think and then decide whether or not they agree with what happened. In this case they do obviously not agree with what happened.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Well said Mudkips.

 

[Trojita]

This was just on the last Castle.

 

[oxrock]

Sadly, I'm not surprised at all. More often than not when I meet an officer I get the impression that they're just people who like authority. Someone who was a bully in school and become an officer to continue that habit or someone who went after that position to escape an inferiority complex. I've known some cops that were decent people, I don't think they're all bad. I do however feel that most have a chip on their shoulder. So if they can muddy someone's name to make them look better, I don't doubt that it'll happen.

*DISCLAIMER*
I have no doubt that there are people who genuinely try to be good police officers. Protect and serve, etc.

 

[Jenga]

Why? The libertarians would be some of the most vocal opposition to this kind of practice.

because no one will take it seriously

 

[diffusionx]

cause that has nothing to do with the number of violent offenders at all right?

It really doesn't. Violent crime rates have been dropping the past two decades, but jails are filling up. Why? Harsher sentencing for nonviolent crimes (well, for violent crimes too - but as I said, those rates are dropping), "three strikes" laws, and so forth.

 

[Angry Fork]

You guys sound so eager to rub it in their faces and it really makes you come off like a couple of pricks.

There's an actual discussion to be had here (COMSTAT, gaming stats) and all you guys want to do is say "I told you so."

Because I'm tired of assholes who think police are some high and mighty respectable force and shit. I've gotten into so many pointless online arguments with people that throw around figures like '98% of cops are good, it's the 1-2% that ruin it for everyone else...' kind of bullshit when we all know by now it's not remotely close to that. But they refuse to acknowledge it and that's part of the problem.

I remember reading lots of posts from people who were annoyed by gaf's "anti-cop" stigma and hated how tazer threads kept getting posted instead of good cop stories etc. and so on, fuck them. They'll defend cops left and right in those threads but when facts are presented it's like oh hey whoops nah brb gonna ignore this one.

No, I am here. I can't speak for the others. I think it's horrible, sad and dangerous that stuff like this happens and will continue to do so; I hope that the full extent of the justice system goes down hard on these criminals.

I still choose to believe in the righteousness that should come from members of an institution like the police or our armed forces but at the end of the day I am not as delusional as to think that every single individual in a group will hold him/herself to the same standards as everybody should. Those that won't need to be brought to justice even more swiftly than the rest of the population. On the other hand I won't go around saying "fuck the police" because I think that (same as with the church, government, economics, etc) it is not the idea behind it that is corrupt but the rotten members that decide to disregard the responsibility that comes with the job.

I wish I shared your admiration for them but living in NYC all my life these people have been awful. I've been stopped for drug searches involving 10-12 different police officers on 5-6 occasions within a 3 month time frame in Brooklyn. I've heard/seen much worse with friends/co-workers though and I consider myself lucky I haven't been the victim of corruption yet. Any time I see a cop car now I get nervous/uneasy feelings. You have to instantly change however you walk to the most precise, wall-street walk imaginable and act like the nicest guy ever because they'll look at you and if you don't have a nice face on they'll pull you over. And I'm white, so imagine the shit minorities get.

Every single one of these cops had the same smug, douchebag, asshole, cunt face on them. They won't let you speak, they don't listen to what you have to say, they don't care. Whenever they let you speak they ask the most abrasive, pointless questions in order to try to get you nervous/trip you up and corner you mentally so you can admit anything wrong to them. They tell you they're going to search you and I'm not going to say no because what if they get mad and plant shit on me? I don't know enough about the law to defend myself and how am I supposed to feel safe if they take me to a building with 50 of the same thugs in the building as well?

I don't even want to think about the horror people have had to deal with when it comes to being planted or beaten. I could talk about the militarization of them all over the city with ridiculous weaponry, cold staring eyes and douche battle-stances like they're bosses of the world. Then they get overtime pay for interrogation room shit so they can sit there for hours and weasel stupid people out of a confession (even if they didn't commit the crime). The times they all gang up together in court to defend each other when brutality happens. The traffic laws they always break, going past red lights for no reason, double parking to go into a restaurant for coffee and breakfast (but will give a ticket to anyone else who does). They have Kanye West ego and a sense of entitlement I've never seen in anyone else. I truly believe they're taught to feel nothing but contempt for the average citizen.

The idea of a police officer that becomes a cop because he legit wants to protect the community, someone you can trust and feel safe around, etc. is a fairy tale imo. I could name so much more shit off the top of my head but it's not even worth it. I'm just tired of them, tired of hearing/seeing all the fucked up shit they do with no punishment. In the end people become cops now because it's easy (2 years college wow amazing accomplishment), they get decent/good money year after year and innumerable social benefits.

I can't wait to see these cops get something like 6 months probation slap on the wrist for potentially ruining the lives of innocent people.

So your complaint is that people who often defend the police (when they do something else you disagree with) are not defending them now? Do you want them to come defend the police just so you can bitch about it?

Seems to me that all this shows is that your idea of "pro-police/conservative gaf" was completely off base. They aren't picking sides and blindly screaming either "fuck the police", "Dude deserved it, good on the cop".

The reason people who often defend police actions aren't in here defending these actions is not because they're afraid to show their face. It's not because they've been proven wrong.

It's because they consider each event and think and then decide whether or not they agree with what happened. In this case they do obviously not agree with what happened.

I was referring to people that pretended like corrupt police were some minority thing and the rest are flying angels who would die to protect aunt sally and uncle bob.

 

[water_wendi]

i am Jacks complete lack of surprise.

 

[Leunam]

They'll defend cops left and right in those threads but when facts are presented it's like oh hey whoops nah brb gonna ignore this one.

You don't come off as much better than them when you take a victory like this and wish to rub it in.

All I'm saying is take the high ground now and then and more people will take you seriously.

 

[wenis]

i'd love to hear the logic behind having arrest quotas.

There really isn't. It puts more pressure on an already pressure filled job and leads to bullshit like that and turning cops rotten just to keep their jobs. It's all about those political points.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Just like any ''business' that has a budget. If you come in under budget from the previous year then your next years budget will be lower. The last crimes that happen the less officers needed the less money that is given to the division from the city to pay for police officers, etc.

pretty much this. politicians also want to be known as "tough on crime" so they push police commanders who in turn push the low level grunts who have to worry about making rent and we have to keep the "scum" in jail so they don't terrorize the nice, pristine suburbian folk and the cycle just keeps on going.

 

[timetokill]

i'd love to hear the logic behind having arrest quotas.

It's the same problem with most government agencies.

1. Receive budget
2. Set quotas to use all of the budget
3. Show numbers showing that reaching the quotas and using all the budget requires MORE funding next time
4. Profit!
5. Rinse and repeat


They're not operating in the best interests of the public. They're operating in the interests of the agency. Best to "prove" you're needed, to "prove" you need more funding.

Ideally we'd be living in a world where we need fewer police, because there are fewer crimes being committed. Guess who that scenario is bad for?

Oh yeah. The police.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

cause that has nothing to do with the number of violent offenders at all right?

Correct it does not, a majority of those incarcerated is related to drugs not violence.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Sadly, I'm not surprised at all. More often than not when I meet an officer I get the impression that they're just people who like authority. Someone who was a bully in school and become an officer to continue that habit or someone who went after that position to escape an inferiority complex. I've known some cops that were decent people, I don't think they're all bad. I do however feel that most have a chip on their shoulder. So if they can muddy someone's name to make them look better, I don't doubt that it'll happen.

*DISCLAIMER*
I have no doubt that there are people who genuinely try to be good police officers. Protect and serve, etc.

I also met some pretty hot looking female cops, damn! she could have violated my civil rights with a plunger any time!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

things like this is why people in urban areas hate the police.

yes, the urban experience is different than your suburban experience.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Because I'm tired of assholes who think police are some high and mighty respectable force and shit. I've gotten into so many pointless online arguments with people that throw around figures like '98% of cops are good, it's the 1-2% that ruin it for everyone else...' kind of bullshit when we all know by now it's not remotely close to that. But they refuse to acknowledge it and that's part of the problem.

Well, just as stubborn/illogical people will refuse to acknowledge the truth (that there are in fact problems with a human-governed organization where there is corruption, scheming, lies, crime, etc), so there will be people that will try to go over to the other side of the equation and think that because there is (a lot? some? I don't have numbers and will not pretend to make people think that I do) corruption and crime then every single member of the police force is also a criminal lying scumbag.

I remember reading lots of posts from people who were annoyed by gaf's "anti-cop" stigma and hated how tazer threads kept getting posted instead of good cop stories etc. and so on, fuck them. They'll defend cops left and right in those threads but when facts are presented it's like oh hey whoops nah brb gonna ignore this one.

I am annoyed by the "fuck the police" stupidity, not by reality. There is corruption, there is violence, theft, murder, rapes, all kinds of crimes being committed by human beings which are supposed to be above it all and in who we trust to be responsible and honest. Again, I can't speak for others but when I post in those threads my issue is not with the fact that reality is being presented for us to examine and judge. My issue is with the "fuck the police crowd". What would you want then? Do you want all law enforcement agencies to just shut down so that you then have to worry about taking matters into your own hands should anything ever happen to you or your loved ones? Become a vigilante? Live in constant fear not of several corrupt individuals -which should have to answer for their crimes- but of potentially thousand more criminals with nobody to keep them in check?

I wish I shared your admiration for them but living in NYC all my life these people have been awful. I've been stopped for drug searches involving 10-12 different police officers on 5-6 occasions within a 3 month time frame in Brooklyn. I've heard/seen much worse with friends/co-workers though and I consider myself lucky I haven't been the victim of corruption yet. Any time I see a cop car now I get nervous/uneasy feelings. You have to instantly change however you walk to the most precise, wall-street walk imaginable and act like the nicest guy ever because they'll look at you and if you don't have a nice face on they'll pull you over. And I'm white, so imagine the shit minorities get.

I am a latino, and an ugly looking one at that. I just chose to stay out of trouble. I don't live in the states though I have been there several times and never ever have I had any problem with the authorities. Hell, I haven't had any issues with the authorities in my corruption-driven, criminal-police-ridden third world country. Here police have the right to stop you at any time, search you, request your id, detain you momentarily without having any more reason than to do a "background check", etc. So yeah, my "admiration" is just being realistic. Not every cop is a shining beacon of "protect and serve". Not every cop is rotten to the core either. I guess our basic disagreement comes from the fact that I do believe in authority and respect it. So if a cop stops me, wants to search me, asks me what I'm doing, where I work, why I'm dressed the way I am, etc, I am able to understand that it is nothing personal. It's their job. And yeah, maybe they're trying to fill a quota or get some extra money on the side or just blow steam but then I will take the fight to the justice system and that specific individual, and his/her wrongdoing will be punished.

Every single one of these cops had the same smug, douchebag, asshole, cunt face on them. They won't let you speak, they don't listen to what you have to say, they don't care. Whenever they let you speak they ask the most abrasive, pointless questions in order to try to get you nervous/trip you up and corner you mentally so you can admit anything wrong to them. They tell you they're going to search you and I'm not going to say no because what if they get mad and plant shit on me? I don't know enough about the law to defend myself and how am I supposed to feel safe if they take me to a building with 50 of the same thugs in the building as well?

I don't even want to think about the horror people have had to deal with when it comes to being planted or beaten. I could talk about the militarization of them all over the city with ridiculous weaponry, cold staring eyes and douche battle-stances like they're bosses of the world. Then they get overtime pay for interrogation room shit so they can sit there for hours and weasel stupid people out of a confession (even if they didn't commit the crime). The times they all gang up together in court to defend each other when brutality happens. The traffic laws they always break, going past red lights for no reason, double parking to go into a restaurant for coffee and breakfast (but will give a ticket to anyone else who does). They have Kanye West ego and a sense of entitlement I've never seen in anyone else. I truly believe they're taught to feel nothing but contempt for the average citizen.

I guess I've already been over this. Yeah, it happens and it needs to stop. But it's not the idea behind the institution that is wrong. Or at least I don't think it is.

The idea of a police officer that becomes a cop because he legit wants to protect the community, someone you can trust and feel safe around, etc. is a fairy tale imo. I could name so much more shit off the top of my head but it's not even worth it. I'm just tired of them, tired of hearing/seeing all the fucked up shit they do with no punishment. In the end people become cops now because it's easy (2 years college wow amazing accomplishment), they get decent/good money year after year and innumerable social benefits.

I find this kind of sad, and I mean no disrespect by it. Some people just are looking for a job. I doesn't have to be one or the other. It doesn't have to be either the super good cop guy out there to change and save the world, but it doesn't have to be the egomaniacal evil cop thirsty for power.

I can't wait to see these cops get something like 6 months probation slap on the wrist for potentially ruining the lives of innocent people.

I hope that's not the case, honestly. And if it is, then -again- there is something deeply wrong with the way the system is working and it needs to be changed. But I will still defend the idea of an institution that watches and protects all of us.

Sorry for the wall of text but I didn't want you to think I'm ignoring your comments.

 

[charsace]

I knew this was happening. Always thought it was stupid for cops to have quotas.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I would have no problem with literally hanging any officer who participated in this or knew and did nothing.

The way corrupt and abusive officials in this country are handled is why justice no longer means anything.

 

[Vicetrailia]

All cops are predators.
All cops will help you out if you ask them a question, they are people after all.
There are no angelical cops and not ALL cops are criminal cops.

Cops will let you get off one day and then unfairly punish you the next. They're just people who are doing a job.

 

[Barrett2]

cause that has nothing to do with the number of violent offenders at all right?

It doesn't, actually.

Rate of violent crime have decreased per capita in the US over the last 30 yrs, while the number of prisons has exploded because of dumb drug laws.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.html

 

[Mudkips]

endless derping

You're worse than the "police defense force" you've dreamt up.

 

[charsace]

This type of thing can have a huge effect on a person who is a minority in regards to getting work. A minority with a conviction would have a hell of a time getting white collar work.

 

[Dude Abides]

It doesn't, actually.

Rate of violent crime have decreased per capita in the US over the last 30 yrs, while the number of prisons has exploded because of dumb drug laws.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.html

I think the idea is that by throwing people in prison, we're locking people up before they have the chance to commit a violent crime, which they would eventually do. George Will rehashes it every year or so.

 

[Wazzim]

All cops are predators.
All cops will help you out if you ask them a question, they are people after all.
There are no angelical cops and not ALL cops are criminal cops.

Cops will let you get off one day and then unfairly punish you the next. They're just people who are doing a job.

LOL

 

[victreeb3l]

ive had fairly lukewarm experiences with the police. they never did anything amazing for me, nor have they gotten in my way ever. however, ticket quotas are the absolute worst and it pisses me off everytime a family member or friend gets a ticket for the stupidest of reasons.

my friends on the other hand had the absolute worst experiences with the cops. its really gotta suck to be a minority sometimes

 

[Barrett2]

I think the idea is that by throwing people in prison, we're locking people up before they have the chance to commit a violent crime, which they would eventually do. George Will rehashes it every year or so.

Hell, I don't even mind locking up meth heads or crack dealers. What irritates me is how much tax money is spent locking up people for petty marijuana possession.

 

[BobTheFork]

I think the idea is that by throwing people in prison, we're locking people up before they have the chance to commit a violent crime, which they would eventually do. George Will rehashes it every year or so.

I never thought the war on Drugs(tm) had that kind of logical justification behind it. IMO they weren't trying to lock up future violent offenders, they were just offended by drugs.

 

[captmcblack]

They just tried to do this to my brother.

Cops are evil.

 

[YoungHav]

I feel safer walking through any fucking neighborhood I been to in NYC (projects included) than walking by some punk ass cops.

 

[Dude Abides]

I never thought the war on Drugs(tm) had that kind of logical justification behind it. IMO they weren't trying to lock up future violent offenders, they were just offended by drugs.

I don't think it's a justification for the drug war per se, but it's what law and order types respond with when you point out that crime is down but incarceration rates are way up. They say the latter is the reason for the former.

 

[shira]

Why the fuck would police have a quota they need to hit?

Retarded.

Buy the Wire on DVD.

 

[Zeke]

I'm surprised anyone is surprised by this

 

[KHarvey16]

Am I the only one to recognize the hypocrisy of rejoicing over the confirmation of the "most cops are corrupt assholes" theory based simply on testimony from an actual corrupt, lying cop? Not to suggest this kind of thing never happens but how can you simply accept the assertion of someone with a clear motive for embellishing the frequency of this behavior?

 

[entremet]

NYPD never change.

 

[Devolution]

I don't know what's more depressing, that this is going on or that I'm not at all surprised.

 

[magicstop]

And yeah, maybe they're trying to fill a quota or get some extra money on the side or just blow steam but then I will take the fight to the justice system and that specific individual, and his/her wrongdoing will be punished.

This is where you are wrong. If a police officer or 5 arrests you, and particularly if you are black or another minority, then it is their word against yours, and you will absolutely not win the fight. You will go to jail and do hard time, period. It's pretty fucked up.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

The NYPD and its implicit quotas were also the subject of the episode "Right To Remain Silent" on This American Life. (Don't listen if you don't want to get angry.)

Episode made my blood boil. Seriously.

 

[Acerac]

I'm not surprised.

Expect this story to get no media coverage and to be little more than a blip on the national radar.

Will we see the Congress talking about this in the near future (between now and next week)?

Hahahahahahaha

No.

 

[SUPREME1]

Cops like this deserve to catch a hot one in their chest.

 

[PeteZaTheHutt]

It's not just the active cops either, the retired cops think they can do whatever they want also.

A few months ago, I was parked for 5 minutes at my daughter's school bus stop. I was technically in a no-parking zone, but all of the other parents are constantly doing the same thing while dropping of their kids. After I dropped my daughter off, this guy comes up to me and rips into me and tells me that he's a cop and shows me his badge and actually tells me that he's not a nice guy. He told me not to park there ever again because his badge gives him the authority to tell me what to do. He yelled at me, swore at me and threatened me. I called the local police because of the verbal threat and the local responding cop, after talking to the other guy, rips into me for "dangerously" parking and he tells me twice during our conversation that the other guy who threatened me is indeed an active police officer.

Long story short, I found out from neighbours that this guy has been retired from the police force for several years. So the local cop had actually LIED on behalf of the retired cop. So basically, this other guy had impersonated a police officer (which is a crime) and the local cop helped to cover this guy's ass (police misconduct) by lying to me.

Luckily, I had the foresight to record my conversation with the local cop with my video camera, so I caught him redhanded lying to me. I have filed an official complaint to the people that police the police and I'm currently awaiting a response from them. As far as the police impersonator is concerned, I've received more threats from him and also his bitch of an ex-wife. A detective with the local police has "investigated" the matter and deemed that there is not enough evidence to prosecute. No surprise there, especially considering that the retired cop has friends at the local police station.

Ridiculous that this crap actually happens. Some of them think that they can do whatever they want without any consequences.

 

[HeySeuss]

I remember that thread.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Am I the only one to recognize the hypocrisy of rejoicing over the confirmation of the "most cops are corrupt assholes" theory based simply on testimony from an actual corrupt, lying cop? Not to suggest this kind of thing never happens but how can you simply accept the assertion of someone with a clear motive for embellishing the frequency of this behavior?

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_spo...t_sports_nba_experts-327741580-1260903121.jpg

It'd be nice to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but if I've learned anything in the last 15 years, if there's a lone whistleblower, the problem is undoubtedly worse than even they are aware of.

 

[timetokill]

Ridiculous that this crap actually happens. Some of them think that they can do whatever they want without any consequences.

From your story, it sounds like they can.

 

[KHarvey16]

It'd be nice to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but if I've learned anything in the last 15 years, if there's a lone whistleblower, the problem is undoubtedly worse than even they are aware of.

He isn't a whistleblower, he's a cop who got caught and cut a deal.