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Former Valve employee says Steam was killing PC gaming, Epic Games is saving it

klosos

Member
Jesus christ, 49.99 for WD2 would be robbery on day 1, never mind now.

lol i agree , also one thing that as annoyed me is gradually over the last five years PC games becoming more expensive as well which worries me because of the acceptance of this. its the reason am waiting for a price drop on Sekiro before buying that.
 
1- That's irrelevant. They put money into the hardware because it's to their benefit, it's their very business model. Still, they offer a far more incomplete service than Valve does, overall.
2- Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo aren't and never were the only other services that take a 30% cut. Same was true for Apple Store, GoG, Gamergate, Impulse/Gamestop App, etc.
3- How is the market standard unreasonable? And for the record it's a standard that extends outside of the gaming industry too. Find someone who will sell your cars and guess how much they will take for themselves? Put your painting in an art gallery and guess what they will keep for each one they'll manage to sell?
I swear at times most of the people who think a resellers don't do nothing to get their own percentage sound like toddlers with no familiarity with the business world at large.


This is hilarious.
Steam didn't introduce invasive DRM at all. If anything made a lot of publishers way more lenient toward it, in a age where every physical copy tended to come with digital cancer like Starforce, TAGES or SecuROM.
All these three systems declined massively in popularity precisely as Steam started to gain some traction.

as far as am concerned steam cut is too much thats all am gonna say. idc about other stores. f2p mobile market is garbage
 

Sentenza

Member
as far as am concerned steam cut is too much thats all am gonna say. idc about other stores.
Well, that makes your opinion irrelevant, doesn't it?
You can't throw in any sort of baseless claim and uninformed statement while ignoring reality and pretend for it to have a weight in a discussion.
 
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Seriously, i am racist against the Chinese government? You have lost all credibility and just prove that you are not here to have a conversation but just to troll like i said you we're before. You are a piece of shit for bringing race into a gaming related thread, you are a terrible person.
You're the one that continues to bring up that the Chinese helps fund Epic as a negative point. Don't project your bullshit on me. Own it.
 

ROMhack

Member
It is called competition. Epic provides to developers something Steam doesn't and they move to Epic store.

It is and I covered that in the same post, like literally two lines below:

Regardless, competition is good for Steam, I'm just not sure the love-in with Epic is good because it doesn't offer anything different for us consumers. The central tenet of Google is that any new product needs to be innovative to succeed. Epic are splashing the cash to save money for developers but moving to another system and juggling game services doesn't benefit ordinary people.
 
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Dada55000

Member
It is called competition. Epic provides to developers something Steam doesn't and they move to Epic store.
no it's called a pissing contest and it's between 2 billion dollar companies

competition would be Epic convincing consumers to go to their store en masse via superior deals meant to entice consumers, as opposed to hokey strongarm chicanery

guess what they haven't done at all? oh buh devs tho, so please put up with strongarming bs, you terrible consumer you
 

Ding_Dong007

Neo Member
So, if a game cost 60 bucks on steam and 60 bucks on epic and 60 bucks at Walmart and 60 bucks at game stop and so on it seams it is the game devs are the greedy ones forcing people to buy from a store they want it has nothing to do with anything but greedy game devs
 

Burger

Member
I love all the people lining up to discredit this guy, who only worked at valve for... *squints* 5 YEARS!

Maybe he has a little more insight into the company he worked for, and maybe it's not a fucking magical nirvana where there is money for nothing and drinks for free.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I love all the people lining up to discredit this guy, who only worked at valve for... *squints* 5 YEARS!

Maybe he has a little more insight into the company he worked for, and maybe it's not a fucking magical nirvana where there is money for nothing and drinks for free.

You get that a place can be not perfect and also not as bad as a disgruntled ex-employee makes it sound, right?
Like, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Some of the statements this dude has made are questionable as to being actually true using, you know, actual evidence available to people, so its not exactly a crazy leap to get to this dude having a bit of a grudge colouring his perception
 

Sentenza

Member
I love all the people lining up to discredit this guy, who only worked at valve for... *squints* 5 YEARS!

Maybe he has a little more insight into the company he worked for, and maybe it's not a fucking magical nirvana where there is money for nothing and drinks for free.
That's completely irrelevant.
I'm not under delusion Valve has to be an idyllic workplace for everyone. He may even have very good reasons to be unhappy about his own experience there (even if YEARS of whine and shit-flinging at his former employers don't really make the guy sound particularly balanced in his opinions).
The issue is that he's not just commenting on how much he liked the place, which I would have no argument against, but on what impact the company had on the PC market.
And there isn't a single rational argument that could be made to single them out as villains while at the same time elevating Epic as the savior as he's doing.

Quite frankly it comes off as blatant shilling.
 

Mattyp

Gold Member
Yeah...Valve killed PC gaming. Right....

That's a great graph you reposted from the internet there about revenues! I guess I should of been more clarifying, when I make a comment about PC gaming being personally ruined for me that refers to my beliefs only. It doesn't reflect the rest of the populace.
 

JCK75

Member
If you had not chosen Steam, you would have eventually been forced to use it as more and more games were tied to a Steam account.

Again I feel like you're totally missing the point, I used steam by choice, Steam took over because most people preferred using it.. And again 13 years zero times having my account hacked while it's among one of the most desirable accounts to get ones hands on with almost 10,000 games.
My Epic account was hacked before it had games for sale, no clue why hackers wanted accounts since everything was free, but it was and it was a constant pain in my ass and I just decided I want no more of it. They need to EARN my business back not force me.. I'm not boycotting Origins, Uplay or Battle.net even though I feel none of them were necessary I only have to use them for the games they make and I've not really had any major issues with any of them. I was lucky when my Epic account was breached that I didn't have payment options set at the time.

You keep going on about Steam as if they forced me over, they didn't, they didn't pay for Exclusives, it's not even remotely comparable, the fact you can't seem to understand the problem with what Epic is doing just suggests perhaps you haven't been PC gaming for very long and don't actually understand the issues with Epic.
 

Solomeena

Banned
You're the one that continues to bring up that the Chinese helps fund Epic as a negative point. Don't project your bullshit on me. Own it.

You are trying your hardest to get people off topic about what is happening with Epic and the Chinese government, that isn't racism you lousy troll.
 

Ballthyrm

Member
This guy is super salty with Valve.

IT'S NOT FOR THE DEVS, IT'S FOR THE PUBLISHERS.
CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP SAYING IT'S FOR THE DEVS ALREADY? Goddammit.

What is wrong with publishers exactly ? (If greed is the answer, welcome to capitalism)
They provide a more valuable service that Steam does IMHO.
They take the chance, they give the money to devs, they do the marketing.

All publishers are not some Bad corporate entities just because you don't like how the big ones behave.
Look at Annapurna Interactive, Devolver digital, the indie fund., and so on.

They sort all the craps and finance the good games.
I know it's cool to hate on the publisher but there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what value they provide.
 

Solomeena

Banned
That's a great graph you reposted from the internet there about revenues! I guess I should of been more clarifying, when I make a comment about PC gaming being personally ruined for me that refers to my beliefs only. It doesn't reflect the rest of the populace.

I do appreciate the clarification and i understand your stance on the subject but i think even you have to admit that without Valve PC gaming would be in some sorry ass shape without Steam. Publishers would continue to ignore us and only release on consoles at the very least and continue to slander us as pirates.
 

JimmyJones

Banned
Uhh no it's not. Explain how it benefits me as a consumer?

"The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly)"

In the future I can see there being even more launchers, then after that we will see launchers for launchers. If it drives down prices and we get more games out of it then I'm all for it. I don't see any major downsides except having to get more launchers, but that is just nitpicking lets be honest. Maybe it's the kick up the ass Valve needs for them to finally make Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3.
 

manfestival

Member
I love all the people lining up to discredit this guy, who only worked at valve for... *squints* 5 YEARS!

Maybe he has a little more insight into the company he worked for, and maybe it's not a fucking magical nirvana where there is money for nothing and drinks for free.
This post is completely dishonest and blind to what is actually being discussed.
 

Stuart360

Member
I really wish people would stop defending Epic. Moneyhatting games and forced exclusivity is anticonsumer. If it doesn't bother you then fine, but dont fucking defend it.
 
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"The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly)"

In the future I can see there being even more launchers, then after that we will see launchers for launchers. If it drives down prices and we get more games out of it then I'm all for it. I don't see any major downsides except having to get more launchers, but that is just nitpicking lets be honest. Maybe it's the kick up the ass Valve needs for them to finally make Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3.
Don't just look at Epic and Steam here, please look at smaller online stores like Gamesplanet or GamerGate etc... Epic doesn't hand out keys for their launcher, which means those stores can't sell a Metro Exodus which means there is no price gauging, since legit stores aren't allowed to sell it.

This is not competition. It's pretty much killing off competition and funnily enough it's propping up the bad "stores" that enable some shady practices like G2A where you can buy an Epic Key for Metro Exodus ripped from a retail box somewhere in the middle east for example. Legit stores have no chance to compete.

What Epic is doing is bad for the PC market right now.
 

demigod

Member
"The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly)"

In the future I can see there being even more launchers, then after that we will see launchers for launchers. If it drives down prices and we get more games out of it then I'm all for it. I don't see any major downsides except having to get more launchers, but that is just nitpicking lets be honest. Maybe it's the kick up the ass Valve needs for them to finally make Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3.

Where are all these lower prices you're talking about?
 

Helios

Member
when Epic first launched they spoke about passing on the savings to customers LOL that went by the roadside quick.
Not only that, but in third world countries Epic is content to pass currency conversion charges and payment processing overhead to consumers. I'm sure that's saving PC gaming and not at all encouraging more piracy.
From what I read, in India, Steam even has a Cash On Delivery type payment because of how popular that is there and Steam is the one paying for the overhead.
 
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Conan-san

Member
Florida Man "Saves" computer gaming by fowling in the office coffee can and denying anyone the right to go get a replacement.
 
D

Deleted member 738976

Unconfirmed Member
psone-introa.png

Saving? You steal companies games, and make them your exclusives! Your words are as empty as your store! Gamers ill needs a savior such as you!
 
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A.Romero

Member
Not only that, but in third world countries Epic is content to pass currency conversion charges and payment processing overhead to consumers. I'm sure that's saving PC gaming and not at all encouraging more piracy.
From what I read, in India, Steam even has a Cash On Delivery type payment because of how popular that is there and Steam is the one paying for the overhead.

I can tell you how it works in Mexico.

First of all, Steam has been available from Mexico for a long long time. Longer than any online gaming store except maybe Xbox Live.

They were the first in regionalizing prices. This means that the price of a game is not just a conversion of the original US price to Mexican pesos. It means that publishers can decide to lower their prices to match the market's economy. For example, Witcher 3 came out costing about $40 while the console porte was still the regular $60 converted to local currency.

You can pay using your credit card, paypal, prepaid cards and even paying through a convinience store that has 15,000 locations. Can't get more convenient than that.

Steam has helped greatly lowering piracy because pricing is acceptable for most people (or at least the people that can afford a gaming PC) and by sheer convenience.

Epic is offering pretty much zero value here. Not even matching their competition. I'm open to use them but they have to be offering something good. Holding exclusive deals is their prerogative and ignoring them is mine as a consumer. I rather wait until those games are available elsewhere than rewarding Epic for trying to force themselves into the market like that.

I do like they are paying devs more and I hope companies receiving money for exclusivity take advantage of it but I don't owe Epic nor the devs anything.
 

Kenpachii

Member
30% cut is to high, even 12% is to high. And that's why developers and publishers that make it out of the indie swamp leave the platform in droves and move to the next that is cheaper without much issue's.

The guy in the article is right, steam has already been for a while a graveyard where titles die on and gaben simple doesn't seem to care or invest even remotely in those game devs / publishers which leaves PC with years old AAA games or simple not at all.

That guy is spot on.
 
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sol_bad

Member
"The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly)"

In the future I can see there being even more launchers, then after that we will see launchers for launchers. If it drives down prices and we get more games out of it then I'm all for it. I don't see any major downsides except having to get more launchers, but that is just nitpicking lets be honest. Maybe it's the kick up the ass Valve needs for them to finally make Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3.

There are already price battles between Gamergate, Gamebillet, GoG, Fanatical, Green Man Gaming, Humble Bundle, Indiegala and God knows how many other digital stores. I very rarely buy direct from Steam.

Epic actually increases the price depending on your country.

30% cut is to high, even 12% is to high. And that's why developers and publishers that make it out of the indie swamp leave the platform in droves and move to the next that is cheaper without much issue's.

Wait, what?
They leave the PC platform for cheaper alternatives? What's the cheaper alternative?
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!


Credit: Twinfinite
Source: https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1113988444370300928
Even if Epic is fixing anything it's for a few and for a while, not for all or for long as claimed, as they hand pick the fanciest games that are worth buying the mindshare of while they leak Fortnite money in an unsustainable business model that will inevitably change at some point in the future.

Steam elevated PC gaming from its worst era where it grew increasingly irrelevant (save for genres that weren't viable elsewhere like MMORPGs and RTS) to arguably its very best where every game, from indie to AAA to Japanese console games and now emerging industries like Chinese game developers, is making a push on it. It pioneered digital distribution and gave equal terms and chances to the smallest indies as the biggest AAA productions which also translated to indies getting their due attention and even appearing on consoles as near equals to the big studios. And Steam gives such complete control over developer and publisher content and how they present it and sell it that they can so easily game the system and essentially advertise products they won't even sell on it beyond a preorder and/or for a long time! And it continues to improve and pioneer.

Sweeney and media posse offer what? A dodgy client, a store worse than the average key reseller's, no features to speak of for users or developers (sure, if a developer is uninterested, like Dangerous Driving has next to no expected features like leaderboards which would be easily implemented with the Steam API for free, then I guess they don't care to see the overall benefits), making stuff up haphazardly with contradictions and actual lies about their goals and methods. Sloppily piggybacking on Steam's 16 years worth of work after they had abandoned PC thanks to another big corporation (Microsoft and their Xbox money back then) and claiming it's a selfless act for the developers when they simply want to get in on the lucrative market Steam established when all Epic claimed to see was filthy PC pirates.

Some people claim it's healthy capitalism and competition when they offer nothing, they don't even fund promising indies to develop their risky and as of yet unknown quality games which would then understandably be exclusive like their own output without complaints, they just pay up front for the lost sales of pre-existing already evidently eye catching games so that they do not get on competing storefronts, like it is with Ubisoft's games which aren't even exclusive as they still sell them on UPlay so they basically just got money to not release on Steam (let's cheer for that and how deep preferential treatment can go for the worthiest of games with Epic too)! Valve could easily destroy them with the same tactics and use them just long enough to achieve that, but they know they aren't good for the platform, the industry, the gamers or the majority of developers, indies included, those not lucky enough to be fancied by any Sweeney or whoever would be tasked with reaching out and giving them one of the inevitably limited bags of money, while those who receive one so easily forget about the rest of the industry and their indie brothers are suddenly beneath them.

I don't even know if the few indie games onboard with such an exclusivity deal truly benefit from it (for some non indies we know it was a publisher decision with the developers not even being aware, never mind getting a dime, without knowing if they can also potentially lose high sales bonuses on top as they're not likely to sell as many copies as they would on Steam). Nobody talks about Hades or Ashen on their reddit, discord or anywhere despite having the makings of indie super-hits that became the talk of the town like Hollow Knight or Risk of Rain 2 (the latter incidentally we wouldn't even know of its success if we just relied on bloggers, they barely paid it any attention and it didn't even review that great where they bothered, we only found out by the large amount of user reviews and the equally transparent Steam statistics). Where does that leave their sequels and overall future output which at some point will not be able to rely on more Epic money bags, either when Epic abandons the market again or when they decide it's time to profit off it rather than leak money gained by Fortnite? Maybe they hope that when they get on Steam and elsewhere after the exclusivity ends they will produce the same fanfare as if they had first launched like that but that's also a risk, they could be seen as old news even if most gamers didn't get to buy them and there will be even more games to compete against by then. They're getting money up front to not only give up on the risk of not selling well (yet just by knowing Epic sees a mindshare to buy they're less risky than other indie titles), but also give up on their potential for great success and how that may affect their future sustainability or growth! Imagine if The Witcher (or Metro 2033) had launched on a platform with no confirmed buyers (as Epic constantly refuse to give but the vaguest of statistics for specific AAA titles) for just a few millions of dollars. Would that series have evolved into the behemoth it is or would they have continued making janky near indie-level under-budgeted games with in turn a super limited niche audience compared to what The Witcher 3 achieved thanks to their earlier success with actual gamers, rather than by swaying one benefactor into funding them a little bit in return for giving up on said gamers?

Additionally, none of the people and bloggers that flood the media with highlighted anti-Steam rhetoric or pretend all Steam users opposing their arguments are alt-right fanboys with Stockholm syndrome (ignoring Sweeney's own political alignment) even reported the Valve GDC business talks which gave some insight into what kinds of things they're working on and where that 30% (which for most of the games Epic acquired could be a 20% with the latest policies anyway, for the smaller ones maybe 25%, but they certainly didn't sign up games/developers with zero mindshare and super niche looking games - unless it was part of a deal for multiple titles like Annapurna's whole output) is invested in and how it benefits everyone and in the long term. Like for example not only theoretically supporting certain regions but also their currencies and locally favored payment methods regardless of their high fees, including things like printing steam money cards in emerging markets or even having cash-on-delivery partners in India (which actually hire and send people over at the buyer's house or wherever to take the cash for the digital game and confirm the purchase), with Steam eating the whole cost rather than asking anyone to give up a larger fee for every sale depending on the payment method (or for users to pay inconsistently higher prices based on those factors). Sure, if you only want to sell your game in a few Western countries or just dump it on a single store you don't necessarily care, but it shows how Steam does their business in a manner that benefits the whole of the industry, its present and its future growth, rather than a chosen few and itself. Let's not forget they also take zero cut while providing all the same features and support for Steam keys in retail boxes or any other digital storefront that isn't Steam. Their fee is indeed 30% or 25% (easily achieved by a modest indie hit) or 20% (ok, true enough this is only for the bigger hits) where it applies, but it's also zero in many cases so clearly it's less than those numbers indicate on average for all games and to varying degrees (I believe someone did the math with the limited available data and it turns out that 30% would be on average 19% when taking in account copies outside Steam that still use Steam as the platform). This is the tip of the iceberg.

Then there's the hot topic of user reviews, rekindled with the Borderlands review bomb. I found it funny as without Steam’s own features made to combat their negative effects (without however making it so it's not possible to find the information if you want it, as it can still be relevant to customers and companies and isn't a form of protest that should be killed off just because some people attempted it for the wrong cause in the past, just as we don't ban the freedom of street protests just because some neo-nazis also use them for their cause at times) nobody would even know a review bomb occurred at all. Yet they’re attacked as if they allow something heinous, despite having way more features and transparency than any other platform with user reviews (including outside gaming) and despite those who attack them using Steam’s own tools to demonstrate what happened! Lol? Does nobody really see the conflict of interest at play when bloggers bash something so natural and common across our daily lives as user reviews? Of course both Epic and bloggers would love if it if the only way to gauge a game is by their own hands, paid off by publishers or not. Why would any company care to please customers when they can just please bloggers for their word of mouth, right? That's easier. Why does it only happen with gaming anyway? And only Steam at that? Why don’t they rag on metacritic for having them? Or Apple Store? Google Play? Amazon? IMDB? Best Buy? Local retailers? Popular price comparison websites? Facebook business pages? Youtube? Just about everything ever these days? If an Amazon competitor was set up without user reviews they’d be laughed out of existence.

Again, we already had a curation based store where only established and otherwise so called noteworthy publishers and developers had a chance to sell their stuff with early Steam and we didn't like it and constantly showed that we didn't want good games to fall through the cracks by the platform curation itself (it's different if they fall through the cracks because of too much competition in an overabundant industry, that's capitalism for you and Steam was clearly not going to fix that as much as it tries, it's the basis of the whole industry they're part of), now they want to accept Tim's hand picked selection of games as the only ones worthwhile because of asset-flips or whatever else everyone easily ignores and scrolls past except when it comes down to writing another sensational blog about the industry (rather than write to highlight a cool game we might have missed, that's too hard). It's anti-indie at its core, shovelware affecting visibility somewhat and improvements (which are constantly done) being needed is no excuse for acting like any game not fancy or popular enough to get on Sweeney's good side for a deal is shovelware. Days ago we had that wave of bloggers from big media like IGN claiming Steam has no noteworthy games left for 2019 which is a ludicrous proposal given how few developers and publishers in the grand scheme of things are actually signed up for EGS. But hey, because they made these shitposts just after the likes of Resident Evil 2, Sekiro and Devil May Cry 5, and before E3 where all the announcements will happen, then provide vague reasons for why Bethesda's and Microsoft's return on the platform (without money bags, just the quality of service and the reach of the platform at play for that) don't count, and ignore big indie hits like Risk of Rain 2 as if they didn't happen, then they can claim it sounds about half-right? It's just a ridiculous anti-indie stance to hold and shows their heavy and willfully ignorant bias, whatever its reason for existing may be.

TL;DR, EGS is lesser than Steam circa early '00s in 2019, completely ignoring how we, gamers and developers, shaped it into its ever pioneering form these last 16 years, and they and their media posse pretend this is all a progressive future-facing forward-thinking feature!

Edited to change every instance of journalists into bloggers since they don't really qualify these days, and enhance my points here and there.
 
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Denton

Member
It is always interesting to see when intelligent people like Geldreich or Sweeney act like total morons.
 

Burger

Member
I really wish people would stop defending Epic. Moneyhatting games and forced exclusivity is anticonsumer. If it doesn't bother you then fine, but dont fucking defend it.

There is nothing forced going on. If every gamer was as bitter as you then nobody would buy games on the Epic store and it would go away (not everyone is). Exclusivity deals are not only rife in the games industry, but all sorts of markets. It's not a new concept.

(and it's not anti consumer)
 
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Solarstrike

Gold Member
Today there's supposedly an announcement. The world is waiting with bated breath of photographic "proof" that Black Holes exist. A team of researches around the world combined their talents, telescopes, and equipment for many years along with the lenses from Tim Sweeney's glasses to peer deep into the unknown universe. What's beyond the Event Horizon and how to extract it's data to give to the Chinese Government, is anyone's guess.


Tim_Sweeney_at_GDC_2016_%2825730674112%29_%28cropped%29.jpg
 

Kenpachii

Member
There are already price battles between Gamergate, Gamebillet, GoG, Fanatical, Green Man Gaming, Humble Bundle, Indiegala and God knows how many other digital stores. I very rarely buy direct from Steam.

Epic actually increases the price depending on your country.



Wait, what?
They leave the PC platform for cheaper alternatives? What's the cheaper alternative?

With platform i mean steam. And the cheaper alternative is Epic currently.
 
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Today there's supposedly an announcement. The world is waiting with bated breath of photographic "proof" that Black Holes exist. A team of researches around the world combined their talents, telescopes, and equipment for many years along with the lenses from Tim Sweeney's glasses to peer deep into the unknown universe. What's beyond the Event Horizon and how to extract it's data to give to the Chinese Government, is anyone's guess.


Tim_Sweeney_at_GDC_2016_%2825730674112%29_%28cropped%29.jpg
you-serious-clark-cousin-eddie-baby-toddler-shirts-baby-lap-shou.png
 
Even if Epic is fixing anything it's for a few and for a while, not for all or for long as claimed, as they hand pick the fanciest games that are worth buying the mindshare of while they leak Fortnite money in an unsustainable business model that will inevitably change at some point in the future.

Steam elevated PC gaming from its worst era where it grew increasingly irrelevant (save for genres that weren't viable elsewhere like MMORPGs and RTS) to arguably its very best where every game, from indie to AAA to Japanese console games and now emerging industries like Chinese game developers, is making a push on it. It pioneered digital distribution and gave equal terms and chances to the smallest indies as the biggest AAA productions which also translated to indies getting their due attention and even appearing on consoles as near equals to the big studios. And Steam gives such complete control over developer and publisher content and how they present it and sell it that they can so easily game the system and essentially advertise products they won't even sell on it beyond a preorder and/or for a long time! And it continues to improve and pioneer.

Sweeney and media posse offer what? A dodgy client, a store worse than the average key reseller's, no features to speak of for users or developers (sure, if a developer is uninterested, like Dangerous Driving has next to no expected features like leaderboards which would be easily implemented with the Steam API for free, then I guess they don't care to see the overall benefits), making stuff up haphazardly with contradictions and actual lies about their goals and methods. Sloppily piggybacking on Steam's 16 years worth of work after they had abandoned PC thanks to another big corporation (Microsoft and their Xbox money back then) and claiming it's a selfless act for the developers when they simply want to get in on the lucrative market Steam established when all Epic claimed to see was filthy PC pirates.

Some people claim it's healthy capitalism and competition when they offer nothing, they don't even fund promising indies to develop their risky and as of yet unknown quality games which would then understandably be exclusive like their own output without complaints, they just pay up front for the lost sales of pre-existing already evidently eye catching games so that they do not get on competing storefronts, like it is with Ubisoft's games which aren't even exclusive as they still sell them on UPlay so they basically just got money to not release on Steam (let's cheer for that and how deep preferential treatment can go for the worthiest of games with Epic too)! Valve could easily destroy them with the same tactics and use them just long enough to achieve that, but they know they aren't good for the platform, the industry, the gamers or the majority of developers, indies included, those not lucky enough to be fancied by any Sweeney or whoever would be tasked with reaching out and giving them one of the inevitably limited bags of money, while those who receive one so easily forget about the rest of the industry and their indie brothers are suddenly beneath them.

I don't even know if the few indie games onboard with such an exclusivity deal truly benefit from it (for some non indies we know it was a publisher decision with the developers not even being aware, never mind getting a dime, without knowing if they can also potentially lose high sales bonuses on top as they're not likely to sell as many copies as they would on Steam). Nobody talks about Hades or Ashen on their reddit, discord or anywhere despite having the makings of indie super-hits that became the talk of the town like Hollow Knight or Risk of Rain 2 (the latter incidentally we wouldn't even know of its success if we just relied on bloggers, they barely paid it any attention and it didn't even review that great where they bothered, we only found out by the large amount of user reviews and the equally transparent Steam statistics). Where does that leave their sequels and overall future output which at some point will not be able to rely on more Epic money bags, either when Epic abandons the market again or when they decide it's time to profit off it rather than leak money gained by Fortnite? Maybe they hope that when they get on Steam and elsewhere after the exclusivity ends they will produce the same fanfare as if they had first launched like that but that's also a risk, they could be seen as old news even if most gamers didn't get to buy them and there will be even more games to compete against by then. They're getting money up front to not only give up on the risk of not selling well (yet just by knowing Epic sees a mindshare to buy they're less risky than other indie titles), but also give up on their potential for great success and how that may affect their future sustainability or growth! Imagine if The Witcher (or Metro 2033) had launched on a platform with no confirmed buyers (as Epic constantly refuse to give but the vaguest of statistics for specific AAA titles) for just a few millions of dollars. Would that series have evolved into the behemoth it is or would they have continued making janky near indie-level under-budgeted games with in turn a super limited niche audience compared to what The Witcher 3 achieved thanks to their earlier success with actual gamers, rather than by swaying one benefactor into funding them a little bit in return for giving up on said gamers?

Additionally, none of the people and bloggers that flood the media with highlighted anti-Steam rhetoric or pretend all Steam users opposing their arguments are alt-right fanboys with Stockholm syndrome (ignoring Sweeney's own political alignment) even reported the Valve GDC business talks which gave some insight into what kinds of things they're working on and where that 30% (which for most of the games Epic acquired could be a 20% with the latest policies anyway, for the smaller ones maybe 25%, but they certainly didn't sign up games/developers with zero mindshare and super niche looking games - unless it was part of a deal for multiple titles like Annapurna's whole output) is invested in and how it benefits everyone and in the long term. Like for example not only theoretically supporting certain regions but also their currencies and locally favored payment methods regardless of their high fees, including things like printing steam money cards in emerging markets or even having cash-on-delivery partners in India (which actually hire and send people over at the buyer's house or wherever to take the cash for the digital game and confirm the purchase), with Steam eating the whole cost rather than asking anyone to give up a larger fee for every sale depending on the payment method (or for users to pay inconsistently higher prices based on those factors). Sure, if you only want to sell your game in a few Western countries or just dump it on a single store you don't necessarily care, but it shows how Steam does their business in a manner that benefits the whole of the industry, its present and its future growth, rather than a chosen few and itself. Let's not forget they also take zero cut while providing all the same features and support for Steam keys in retail boxes or any other digital storefront that isn't Steam. Their fee is indeed 30% or 25% (easily achieved by a modest indie hit) or 20% (ok, true enough this is only for the bigger hits) where it applies, but it's also zero in many cases so clearly it's less than those numbers indicate on average for all games and to varying degrees (I believe someone did the math with the limited available data and it turns out that 30% would be on average 19% when taking in account copies outside Steam that still use Steam as the platform). This is the tip of the iceberg.

Then there's the hot topic of user reviews, rekindled with the Borderlands review bomb. I found it funny as without Steam’s own features made to combat their negative effects (without however making it so it's not possible to find the information if you want it, as it can still be relevant to customers and companies and isn't a form of protest that should be killed off just because some people attempted it for the wrong cause in the past, just as we don't ban the freedom of street protests just because some neo-nazis also use them for their cause at times) nobody would even know a review bomb occurred at all. Yet they’re attacked as if they allow something heinous, despite having way more features and transparency than any other platform with user reviews (including outside gaming) and despite those who attack them using Steam’s own tools to demonstrate what happened! Lol? Does nobody really see the conflict of interest at play when bloggers bash something so natural and common across our daily lives as user reviews? Of course both Epic and bloggers would love if it if the only way to gauge a game is by their own hands, paid off by publishers or not. Why would any company care to please customers when they can just please bloggers for their word of mouth, right? That's easier. Why does it only happen with gaming anyway? And only Steam at that? Why don’t they rag on metacritic for having them? Or Apple Store? Google Play? Amazon? IMDB? Best Buy? Local retailers? Popular price comparison websites? Facebook business pages? Youtube? Just about everything ever these days? If an Amazon competitor was set up without user reviews they’d be laughed out of existence.

Again, we already had a curation based store where only established and otherwise so called noteworthy publishers and developers had a chance to sell their stuff with early Steam and we didn't like it and constantly showed that we didn't want good games to fall through the cracks by the platform curation itself (it's different if they fall through the cracks because of too much competition in an overabundant industry, that's capitalism for you and Steam was clearly not going to fix that as much as it tries, it's the basis of the whole industry they're part of), now they want to accept Tim's hand picked selection of games as the only ones worthwhile because of asset-flips or whatever else everyone easily ignores and scrolls past except when it comes down to writing another sensational blog about the industry (rather than write to highlight a cool game we might have missed, that's too hard). It's anti-indie at its core, shovelware affecting visibility somewhat and improvements (which are constantly done) being needed is no excuse for acting like any game not fancy or popular enough to get on Sweeney's good side for a deal is shovelware. Days ago we had that wave of bloggers from big media like IGN claiming Steam has no noteworthy games left for 2019 which is a ludicrous proposal given how few developers and publishers in the grand scheme of things are actually signed up for EGS. But hey, because they made these shitposts just after the likes of Resident Evil 2, Sekiro and Devil May Cry 5, and before E3 where all the announcements will happen, then provide vague reasons for why Bethesda's and Microsoft's return on the platform (without money bags, just the quality of service and the reach of the platform at play for that) don't count, and ignore big indie hits like Risk of Rain 2 as if they didn't happen, then they can claim it sounds about half-right? It's just a ridiculous anti-indie stance to hold and shows their heavy and willfully ignorant bias, whatever its reason for existing may be.

TL;DR, EGS is lesser than Steam circa early '00s in 2019, completely ignoring how we, gamers and developers, shaped it into its ever pioneering form these last 16 years, and they and their media posse pretend this is all a progressive future-facing forward-thinking feature!

Edited to change every instance of journalists into bloggers since they don't really qualify these days, and enhance my points here and there.
Bravo well said I dont have a whole lot to add, but im happy reasonable people are a part of this community.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Bravo well said I dont have a whole lot to add, but im happy reasonable people are a part of this community.
Thanks, I tried to make a few clear points but it seems I dragged it on too long after all, there's just so much bs surrounding the topic these days.
 
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