PhazonBlazer
Member
Half-life 3.1 confirmed?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Former Valve employee seeks $3.1M in transgender discrimination suit
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
cartographer
Member
Because when you ask for $25k then you won't realistically be able to settle for more than $25k.
Yup to both of these points.
Was there any discrimination though? Sounds like they were pretty flexible in terms of the operation, letting her work remotely for a while. I don't even get how the manager would be uncomfortable with a remote worker who you don't see. Sounds more like she complained about unpaid translations (fighting the good fight) and valve fired her for that. Valve doesn't come out looking great but it seems to be more about firing a remote worker who complains about company policies.
So, you're saying that she should be asking for more (which she should be!).
You see, because this will probably never see the light of day in a court room, you start at a number like that and then work your way down as part of the settlement negotiation.
This is how business gets done!
I believe this is a response, showing another common reason that lawsuits are brought to bear, to the first couple in this thread. It's is not uncommon of NeoGAF OT threads about abuse or discrimination, where posters are already passing judgement based only on a accusation that the accused is guilty; instead of assuming the accused should be presumed innocent and deserve their day in court. However, someone would have to ask the original poster to clarify.
you know, for things like evidence, and facts to be shown to us instead of a discrimination suit that literally is single sided on purpose by her lawyer in an attempt to make her side look like the truth.
I mean, it's terrible if what happened to her actually happened to her, but people are fine to wait for more evidence before getting their pitchforks.
RichiRamjag
Member
Sounded more like he implied that it does happen rather than it was what was definitely going on in this specific case. I don't care for the pitchfork mentality in either direction. Especially with so little information.
Right in the first page: The suit is seeking $1 million for general damages, $1 million for special damages, $150,000 for unpaid wages and penalties, and $1 million for loss of earnings.
In a wrongful termination suit overlapping with a discrimination suit? That doesn't seem like a crazy amount to me.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You ask for more than what you want or expect, so that the negotiation will end up in your favor.
Why do that if you can get it done for free?
I mentioned this in the other thread - glad it is going to eventually get legal justice, but all we have had chance to hear is a very one sided story (pretty typical since Valve don't talk), so this should be interesting to see where it goes. Unfair dismissal and discrimination obviously need to be fought, and if Valve is in the wrong they should face a heavy price. However, they deny all the claims and ask for dismissal - so it begs the questions, what happened and what are the proper reasonings and story behind the dismissal, as well as whether it is specific to the employee that is centred in the drama (the supervisor) or more endemic within Valve or sheer ignorance.
Also hilarious to see the usual guilty verdict before we know all the story or even seen it go to court yet. Typical with these platform centric things.
I thinks the suit is about the problem and firing of the employees that article this article is about.
I don't agree with the practice but isn't that the way forum moderation works in most places as well? Are reddit mods paid?
came here to post this. Any company can have assholes working in it, and typically they're spineless cowards who are only assholes to the people below them so it is easy for their behavior to go unpunished until somebody complains. Hopefully that supervisor gets what is coming to them.
complaining to human resources should solve problems like this before they turn into huge garbage fires, but in this case it didn't.
Compsiox
Banned
Thats a quote about using fans for translation. Way to go.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The thing is that the in the accusation, it heavily implies that company fosters these sort of discriminatory attitudes.
And that's not ok.
Even so, the company should be focused on weeding out this kind of behavior and removing it. If they had been successful at doing that already, there would be no lawsuit.
Wowfunhappy
Member
EA really gets a bad rap.
Their PC ports are consistently good, Origin is a well-designed client (as much as I'd rather not have to use it at all), and they've released a lot of good titles.
They have problems but so do all the major publishers. That isn't to say I condone some of EA's practices, but I'm not sure why they're always singled out. I think that EA hate has unfortunately become something of a meme.
charlequin
Banned
BTW, the Wayback Machine version of the deleted reddit thread: https://web.archive.org/web/2016020...ow_a_whole_language_of_the_steam_translation/
It's about the discrimination. The unpaid translators issue is relevant because dismissing an employee for bringing up a legitimate issue in the company's external policies would speak to a pattern of inappropriate treatment.
It's about the discrimination. The unpaid translators issue is relevant because dismissing an employee for bringing up a legitimate issue in the company's external policies would speak to a pattern of inappropriate treatment.
Yep another weird Valve method. It's a common practise, but at Valve's scale, it really shouldn't be. From the reddit discussion about it last time, it appears to centre around that particular employee's supervising and organising of a token incentive system, that the others didn't use - but again is a problem with Valve giving little to no oversight in these things, from what we know at least
Compsiox
Banned
Notice she never complained to anyone else at Valve about the discrimination. Only about the translation thing.
I can't see her winning the wrongful termination suit, with her in a contractor position it likely didn't give her much protection from the contract being terminated. She could have a good case for workplace harassment/discrimination if she is able to prove it to some degree.
It still may be indicative of a larger, more deeply rooted issue with Valve, that this is an example of a natural result of their structure-less operation. Valve even admitted that things like this can result from a poor hiring decision that goes unfettered for too long.
Discarding weak links. Because there’s no hierarchical structure, Valve admits that “a poor hiring decision can cause lots of damage, and can sometimes go unchecked for too long.” But the company adds, “Ultimately, people who cause damage always get weeded out.” The handbook also admits that the lack of structure makes it hard for people to develop mentors.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-04-25/what-makes-valve-software-the-best-office-ever
So I guess time will tell if this is just an isolated occurrence or if its the prevailing culture there. It's a system that sounds rife for abuse.
Not familiar with the American legal system or common practices are you? If there was ever a system in need of tort reform, it would be the American one.
EA and the rest of big companies probably have the same kind of troubles too, the difference is that they have gigantic legal and HR deparmets with all kind of NDA deals to avoid this kind of suits.
i read that. it's a ridiculous amount of money. 2 millions dollars for general damages + special damages? don't be fucking ridiculous, this shit only got out because it is a sensitive subject but this "lawsuit" is going nowhere
Assuming a settlement, you could at least infer that Valve know they were wrong. However at this point Valve deny it all, so that doesn't look likely.
crazygambit
Member
I view this the same as Kickstarter to be honest. If you wanna risk your money as if it were equity in a startup with none of the upside, more power to you. If you wanna give away your time and skill I won't be the one to stop you.
Why would Valve pay for translator if they can get people to do it for free (though I'm guessing they'll still need professionals to check the stuff. I'm sensing that with free translations, you get what you pay for).
DarkConfidant
Member
Sounds really terrible, but why $3 million? That's crazy!
I understand lost wages, and unpaid wages, but holy crap!
Makes me want a lawsuit for myself.
Price aside, I'll wait for further details before I pass judgment.
I understand lost wages, and unpaid wages, but holy crap!
Makes me want a lawsuit for myself.
Price aside, I'll wait for further details before I pass judgment.
How do we know you're guilty as charged? Because you've been charged. You wouldn't have been charged unless you were guilty.
Compsiox
Banned
Also notice she never complained to anyone else at Valve about the discrimination. Only about the translation thing.
LordRaptor
Member
What sort of argument is this? Shitheads on the internet love Gabe Newell, so Gabe Newell must also be a shithead?
Because I don't think Kaz Hirai, Phil Spencer or Reggie Fils-Aimee are cunts because I've encountered cunts using their faces as avatars online.
The only 'evidence' I've seen in this thread of Valves supposed 'right wing tendencies' is a screenshot of someone from Valve saying that Avatars aren't the only thing that can be offensive, which isn't so much 'right wing' as 'glaringly self-evident'
John Kowalski
Banned
Very depressing to read.
Mihos
Gold Member
Its a little excessive. Probably just a bargaining chip for settlement.
cartographer
Member
EA"s fairly consistently ranked as one of the best places to work in the industry as far as LGBT issues go.
I'm not even going to speculate. She may well be right on every count. The point is that no one knows, and yet nearly everyone is assuming guilt. If some of the people in this thread end up in legal careers we'll all wind up on guillotines.
She is suing them in LA, because that's where she was working from as an "Independent Contractor" after Valve changed her employment status when she needed to work from LA.
SystemUser
Member
Do they get achievement badges at least? Some people love cheevos.
Well, the sexual orientation proviso should apply here at least for part of the complaint and retaliatory firing may be exempted as well depending on how the law is applied.