California labor law is very much in favor of individual rights over employers, so she definitely has an advantage there vs. Washington. Oregon labor law is also moving pretty closely towards California in that regard.
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Former Valve employee seeks $3.1M in transgender discrimination suit
- Thread starter duckroll
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California labor law is very much in favor of individual rights over employers, so she definitely has an advantage there vs. Washington. Oregon labor law is also moving pretty closely towards California in that regard.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Postal 1 has been on Steam for ages and is pretty much exactly like Hatred. The Postal remake is coming to PSN.
It's Bioware's prerogative to do whatever they want in their games. I was rolling my eyes pretty often going through DA:I and it wasn't because of the sexual preference of characters, but the way they were written and presented.
I don't think her supervisor referring to her as it is offensive, honestly.
I know transgenders who prefer it, and that stuff is so different from person to person, it's like walking on eggshells all the time when you're talking to anyone. She should have informed people what she wanted to be referred to as.
I know transgenders who prefer it, and that stuff is so different from person to person, it's like walking on eggshells all the time when you're talking to anyone. She should have informed people what she wanted to be referred to as.
There have been multiple posts in this thread explaining multiple reasons why the number is as high as it is.
Postal is tasteless as fuck, and was never good or funny.
But was it made by literal fucking racists? Even more than that, proud and open racists, with public visibility of their connection with white supremacy groups? A fact that was widely discussed at the time of the first trailer reveal?
so she didnt complain to HR regarding harassment, but due to unpaid translators complaint?
Did the accusations around harassment come once she was let go? It gets even trickier because she volunteered to move with the position a 2nd time (but was denied). If the complaint filed to HR was about unpaid support, the harassment charge is hard to pin on Valve.
unless i am missing something?
It's in the complaint on Page 8 Hostile Work Environment section
The fucking case file is attached to article..... just read there and you find out.
cartographer
Member
Postal 1 has been on Steam for ages and is pretty much exactly like Hatred. The Postal remake is coming to PSN.
It's Bioware's prerogative to do whatever they want in their games. I was rolling my eyes pretty often going through DA:I and it wasn't because of the sexual preference of characters, but the way they were written and presented.
I don't see how shooting down your claims of "pandering" was claiming for you to be banned, but you do you. I tried.
Uh I don't think anyone would ever be comfortable being referred to as "it", that's ice cold
uh, no. "it" is pretty universally regarded as offensive and dehumanizing among the trans community.
charlequin
Banned
Anyone who's followed the topic of HR policy in the game industry in general and Valve in specific has already seen a lot of evidence that the types of problems described here are relatively commonplace. Coming to the story from a complete vacuum, sure, it makes sense to reserve judgment to some degree, but this is a report in keeping with a body of pre-existing evidence.
If you had taken a second to read the chain you responded to instead of exploding into outrage you would notice that I responded to someone saying Valve has a "right-wing bent" by suggesting that a chunk of their fanbase matches that descriptor. I didn't say (nor do I actually think) Gabe Newell is a racist.
Inasmuch as Valve's libertarian streak is relevant to the conversation, it's specifically in that question of HR policy. At least for me, I don't think the transphobic and discriminatory behavior of the supervisor is representative of general opinion at Valve in any way; rather, I think taking an aggressively laissez faire attitude to HR concerns gives individual assholes way too much power to cause problems for other employees.
Once again, not allowing a game to be sold because a couple of people in the dev team have terrible political views or are terrible people is not a reasonable metric to abide for, and there wouldn't be any games released at all if that was the case. Come on now
"it"?
yuck.
Since she got fired, instead of her supervisor getting fired, it's absolutely the company.
yuck.
Since she got fired, instead of her supervisor getting fired, it's absolutely the company.
Is it really? Maybe I just know a group in the minority. What about they and them, avoiding gender specific words?
Really? "It" is normally used to describe objects and not human beings.
First time I heard this, but nothing should surprise me anymore. :lol
He took it as a call to ban him since you mentioned a mod specifically to "address" his other issues. Maybe not intended that way though.
Yes it is. Sorry I have actual standards. Well, I'm not sorry. But if it makes you feel better...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Singular they and them are usually fine unless a person asks you to gender them, then you respect that. "It" is never okay.
cartographer
Member
Ah. Thanks. Absolutely not. Poster I was responding to was asking questions generated from charlequin's post (and ones that charlequin has already addressed in replies to others).
stufte
Member
I'm pretty sure some of your favorite media is made by people you'd strongly disagree with, or even hate.
Absolutely, 100%. What's your point?
Exactly. Not having dedicated people managers in an already flat organization can give disproportionate power to individuals to show their bad sides. It's definitely the organization's problem, but it rarely applies to the general staff or even attitude within the company.
toddhunter
Member
Could be a dumb/outsider question but is discrimination laws around this issue a state by state thing or America wide?
I got the impression that this sort of discrimination would almost be encouraged in a lot of places, but that may be being very unfair and based only only loud political views, not actual laws.
I got the impression that this sort of discrimination would almost be encouraged in a lot of places, but that may be being very unfair and based only only loud political views, not actual laws.
Thanks for pointing it out; like I said, seems like a rather important point for an article to leave out! Hope they roll some heads in this case then.
Maybe I fucking expect the article to cover the most important points on the fucking case file, given their headline prominently pointing to transgender discrimination as the main fucking point.
Given my lack of expertise in legalese, I'm not going to be digging into the case files for every story I come across.
And even the term racists seems rather too mild term to describe (at least some of the) developers.
charlequin
Banned
It's not really relevant what your Totally Real Trans Friends prefer when any reference (say, http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender) will tell people how to act in this circumstance, and almost any native English speaker will recognize that the pronoun "it" comes off as insulting when applied to human beings.
Team Alucard
Banned
It varies by state, There are no federal discrimination protections for sexual orientation and gender identity.
States that are purple have protections for sexual orientation and gender identity, states that are blue have protections for sexual orientation but not for gender identity, and states that are grey have no protections at all.
No she didn't report the harassment, she only reported the sowing of discord among employees.
You don't know the people and the views of these people when you normally buy a game, this time you do, and they happen to be racists which will result in a lot of people not buying their game.
Everybody has the right to try and make money on an open market as long as the content within the game is not out of order itself.
toddhunter
Member
It varies by state, There are no federal discrimination protections for sexual orientation and gender identity.
States that are purple have protections for sexual orientation and gender identity, states that are blue have protections for sexual orientation but not for gender identity, and states that are grey have no protections at all.
Makes sense, thanks.
Hopefully things get better in this regard.
Further is the key word there. That's in addition to the other stuff mentioned above and it was reported as a whole.
charlequin
Banned
State by state. Both California (where she moved) and Washington (where Valve is based) protect against gender identity discrimination however. It's pretty reasonable to be uncertain about this as a non-American, we're in the middle of having a big stupid national fight about it.
Valve's product, Steam, is not an "open market". And the game had been previously denied precisely because of its offensive material and developers' beliefs. But OUR SAVIOR LORD GABEN stood up for the little man and said "NO, LET ALL RACISTS KNOW OUR PLATFORM IS FOR YOU!"
Yeah fuck that. That's not a good thing, and that anyone would defend it is baffling.
It varies by state, There are no federal discrimination protections for sexual orientation and gender identity.
States that are purple have protections for sexual orientation and gender identity, states that are blue have protections for sexual orientation but not for gender identity, and states that are grey have no protections at all.
Wow........ Still quite a ways to go.
Not a dumb question
discrimination laws are state by state, unless it's a situation where actions happen across multiple states, at which point it could be tried in a federal court. Labor law definitely varies from state to state. This apparently is being tried in California, which has much more liberal laws that heavily lean in favor of the employee vs employer (at least in relative terms in the US). For example, in some Southern states things like paid time off and family leave are significantly less than a state like California. This type of behavior would rarely be encouraged...in just about every state, an employer will get taken to task for this sort of behavior. It's clearly discrimination if her claims are true (but we just don't know quite yet). However, transgender protection laws are somewhat of a new territory, and there still is some bullshit going on in America with getting equal rights in this area. For example, the current transgender bathroom controversy from North Carolina shows how divided we still can be on some of these issues from state to state.
What a hill to die on.
I'm just sitting with my head in my hands thinking "Why? Why this angle?".
I don't get it.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
What the fuck.
She wasn't asking to be fucking called an 'it' by that person, because obviously she wanted to be a 'she'. Even the article goes by 'she'.
And if you don't fucking know what gender to call someone by I hope you don't call him or her an 'it'. Or maybe ask them? Or use their fucking name??
Also that transgender version of MyBlackFriend is fucking hilarious.
Professor Beef
Banned
That person represents the company.
Also:
Kind of vague, but its hard to think that the discord among employees is the 'conduct' being referred to here.
lol come on mate
Palette Swap
Member
I might be way off, but from the outside, Valve do look like they're trying so hard to not look like a corporation that they're regularly failing at being one when it involves the positive sides of a corporate culture, like customer relationship, accountability or in this case corporate responsibility.
You're trying way too hard here.
charlequin
Banned
You have to rely on drawing the line directly from the developers, who identify themselves with white power signifiers but deny it when asked, to the game, which does not include explicitly racist content but comes off as more disturbing if you know the context of its development. I personally think it's a mistake to separate those things and I objected pretty strongly to selling Hatred but it's a question with a more defensible flipside than selling a game that is in and of itself filled with racist content.
A man should not have to ask people to refer to himself as a him. Same for a woman.
A transgendered person is not a crossdresser. They are now the sex they are. By default in the english, spanish, french and god knows every other language you refer to men as him/his/he'll and women as her/she/hers. To deviate from this immediately comes from a place of disrespect with the intention to harm and belittle.
And no, its not walking on eggshells. See a girl? Call her, her. See a guy? Call him, him. This is something that is taught in american pre-kindergardens.
Personally I find "this" and not "both" meaning she reported the discord and not the prior harassment to HR. We'll find out if it ever goes to the courts.
Team Alucard
Banned
In regards to Trans rights, its possible we might see the entire map turn purple in a few years.
Right now the Department of Justice is embroiled in a legal battle with North Carolina and other southern states over their bathroom bills. The DOJ is interpreting gender identity and sex to be equivalent under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which bans discrimination based on sex). If the courts side with the DOJ, then all the protections guaranteed under the Civil Rights Act will apply to transgender men and women, just as they do for cis men and women.
Universal discrimination protections for sexual orientation are still probably several years away though, as it will take federal legislation to specifically amend the Civil Rights Act, rather than precedent law set by the court system, which is highly unlikely given the current congress.
OK, I can see you are not worth having a conversation with. Good night.