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[marc^o^]

What are the odds they have something spectacular to reveal with this cloud power?

 

[Hrothgar]

So, which GAF member works at Amazon and is trolling us with that description?!?

 

[SniperHunter]

What??

What?

Sony hasn't said anything about cloud computing so far. It is exclusive to Xbone at this point.

 

[NullPointer]

"The infinite power of the cloud" is quickly becoming the next "Blast Processing".

Sony hasn't said anything about cloud computing so far. It is exclusive to Xbone at this point.

They've spoken of Gaikai, but there's been no talk of using it to make the PS4 40 times more powerful via offloading latency-insensitive tasks, if thats what you mean.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

All of Microsoft's internally developed software will make use of 'the cloud.'
Thus all of Microsoft's software will require a persistent connection to the internet.

 

[madmackem]

What are the odds they have something spectacular to reveal with this cloud power?

Zero, they would have to be ahead of the whole industry cloud wise and have kept the biggest secret the games business has even known.

 

[nib95]

did we get some new info ?
because from the trailer there's no way of telling if lighting and shadows are dynamic.
I would say they are, given the low resolution of shadow maps cast from the scenery.

In the video and shots released you can clearly see shadows etc are baked. Ironically, only non dynamic baked stuff is beneficial to cloud computing, dynamic lighting etc would be a form of insensitive load, that would be completely unviable for cloud computing.

 

[dollartaco]

Sony hasn't said anything about cloud computing so far. It is exclusive to Xbone at this point.

WHAT

 

[SniperHunter]

WHAT

stap plz!!! where are you getting at

 

[madmackem]

Sony hasn't said anything about cloud computing so far. It is exclusive to Xbone at this point.

What do you think giakia is, it could be used in the exact same way. Pc games have used the cloud in bad ways see simcity, this isnt some exclusive thing ms have thought up on there own.

 

[Gestault]

Sony hasn't said anything about cloud computing so far. It is exclusive to Xbone at this point.

Cloud computing is the basis of the Gaikai software integration in the PS4.

 

[i-Lo]

What do you think giakia is, it could be used in the exact same way. Pc games have used the cloud in bad ways see simcity, this isnt some exclusive thing ms have thought up on there own.

Yes, it absolutely can, except they haven't said anything about using it that way (not yet anyway). Their current plan revolve around bolstering PSN with its aid and help in streaming games and other media in the beginning.

During the conference of Feb 20, Sony made it a point that you'll be able to try out games instantly. That is an evidence of how they plan on using GAIKAI in the beginning, i.e. how it used to be before their acquisition.

 

[alterno69]

I'm wondering, what if the cloud could be used to render a level and habe it in the ststem cache or something, like while the game is loading a level it is getting help by processing some of it in the cloud, i have no idea if that is even remotely coherent but i habe no clue how cloud computing works

 

[SniperHunter]

What do you think giakia is, it could be used in the exact same way. Pc games have used the cloud in bad ways see simcity, this isnt some exclusive thing ms have thought up on there own.

Gaikai = video game streaming technology. I haven't seen any examples of cloud computing

Game runs on a modern rigs at gaikai and is streamed to you.

 

[FtsH]

At least they can use cloud to render the photo mode. No latency issue at all here. I can wait for 10 sec if cloud servers can give me a high-res movie quality image.

 

[KKRT00]

I'm wondering, what if the cloud could be used to render a level and habe it in the ststem cache or something, like while the game is loading a level it is getting help by processing some of it in the cloud, i have no idea if that is even remotely coherent but i habe no clue how cloud computing works

No, You cant do that.

 

[Bornstellar]

In the video and shots released you can clearly see shadows etc are baked. Ironically, only non dynamic baked stuff is beneficial to cloud computing, dynamic lighting etc would be a form of insensitive load, that would be completely unviable for cloud computing.

You keep saying this, but it's complete bollocks. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Baked shadows do not allow for partial occlusion.

 

[cyberheater]

giakia.

Is a video streaming server technology. Not a cloud technology. It's not the same thing.

 

[netBuff]

Is a video streaming server technology. Not a cloud technology. It's not the same thing.

How do you know whether it is the same technology or not? "Cloud technology" is a meaningless marketing phrase.

The economic implications alone tell us the "infinite power of the cloud" is bullshit, Microsoft's marketing department is trying to diminish the fact that their system is significantly weaker than their most direct competitor by spinning meaningless buzzwords.

 

[enzo_gt]

Too much latency to outsource physics calculations to a remote server. Forza usually samples physics at 360fps.

Anyway, I'm almost convinced 'cloud power' is going to become the blast processing of this generation

I'm thinking more along the lines of calculating stuff like temperature of the track for every lap in advance, etc.

 

[nib95]

You keep saying this, but it's complete bollocks. Please stop spreading misinformation.



Baked shadows do not allow for partial occlusion.

No its not. Check the Forza 5 screenshots thread. Several people pointed out a few spots you could tell. Lack of soft shadows and soft edges too.

 

[PJV3]

OK so we all know this is complete BS but if MS allowed me to hook 2 xbox ones together to get better performance and higher resolutions I would totally be up for that.

You could watch 2 tv channels at the same time.

 

[Bornstellar]

No its not. Check the Forza 5 screenshots thread. Several people pointed out a few spots you could tell. Lack of soft shadows and soft edges too.

Look at the screenshots in my post. That's not baked shadows.

 

[dollartaco]

Is a video streaming server technology. Not a cloud technology. It's not the same thing.

Gaikai is a cloud. Clouds stream.

 

[KKRT00]

Baked shadows do not allow for partial occlusion.

Thats not true.

 

[ChryZ]

The "cloud" code will prolly look like this:

10 if "signed into XBLA" = "true", then enable lens flare, else go to 20
20 load low res textures then exit

 

[Haunted]

So offline people.. What happens to them?

Why would you buy an XB1 if you're offline?

 

[neorej]

Why would you buy an XB1 if you're offline?

Some people need an expensive BluRayplayer.

 

[GK86]

How much more do I pay for this 'infinite cloud power'?

 

[Haunted]

Some people need an expensive BluRayplayer.

If you're offline, it'd only play them for 24 hours, so I question the intelligence of that purchasing decision.

 

[cyberheater]

Gaikai is a cloud. Clouds stream.

My understanding is that they are focused on different things. Gaikai is a video game streaming service. That's its main focus and task. Xbox One cloud is a general purpose cloud computing platform which devs can use as they see fit.

They are not the same.

 

[mrklaw]

Can't see them using it for physics, that needs to be updated really fast with no lag. Can't see them using it for graphics, same reason. Only thing I can eve think of would be dedicated servers for multiplayer to keep lag down and put less pressure on the host.

Tbh that's all I can think of for any game using 'th infinite power of the cloud'. Is a nice benefit though after a generation of peer to peer online

 

[GSG Flash]

So doesn't this mean that Forza 5 is online only all the time?(rather than most of the time like with the console itself)

 

[Brimstone]

Cloud computing is the basis of the Gaikai software integration in the PS4.

Gaikai is more powerful...sort of nebula processing.

 

[Sandfox]

So is the cloud Micrsoft's version of Blast Processing/GDDR5?

 

[PJV3]

The cloud can do the logo and the menu screen.

 

[Bornstellar]

Thats not true.

Facepalm. "Baked" shadows are simply alterations to the underlying texture map of the object. As such, there is no calculated projection (unless there is some realtime solution as well, so you can have both) and shadows are not "cast" across objects. In most games with baked shadows, this means that the light applied to a dynamic object moving between a zone that is "lit" and a zone that is "shadowed" has uniform lighting across the entirety of the object which blends from fully lit to fully shadowed.

This is what it looks like:

Even though the front half of the chopper is under the "shadow" of the arch, the entire thing is uniformly lit.

You can combine the two techniques, but there is clearly some kind of realtime solution (applied to environments) at play in Forza.

 

[flippedb]

Infinite powaaaaaaa lol

 

[eXistor]

"Infinite power of the cloud" is gonna be a thing now isn't it...

 

[FordGTGuy]

It's funny seeing GAF get so mad over a marketing term.

 

[TrutaS]

God this is unbelievably sad. I hope this cloud thing dies when people start making real comparisons between consoles.

 

[Glorified G]

It would be even worse if this whole cloud bs is tied behind a paywall

 

[KKRT00]

You can combine the two techniques, but there is clearly some kind of realtime solution (applied to environments) at play in Forza.

Like in almost every game this generation? This doesnt mean its not baked, You have full real time shadows or baked shadows, how they occlude dynamic geometry is completely different matter.

There is nice presentation about this topic from CCP's Fanfest about Dust 514. They've basically made several lighting solutions for different assets, but they call it baked, because You know its not fully dynamic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_PLSh8qEY&feature=player_detailpage#t=1445s

 

[Bornstellar]

Like in almost every game this generation? This doesnt mean its not baked, You have full real time shadows or baked shadows, how they occlude dynamic geometry is completely different matter.

Most games which people say use "baked" shadows do so strictly for the environments and other static objects while using limited dynamic shadows for dynamic objects. The (static) environments in Forza clearly handle projected occlusion as in the second case.

EDIT: I'm not talking about lighting (which is probably baked, because in most cases the tradeoff simply isn't worth it). I'm talking about shadowing since nib95 has been spreading FUD that "In the video and shots released you can clearly see shadows etc are baked" when at worst, that's simply not the case and at best gives a false impression of what is being done.

 

[FyreWulff]

Can't see them using it for physics, that needs to be updated really fast with no lag. Can't see them using it for graphics, same reason. Only thing I can eve think of would be dedicated servers for multiplayer to keep lag down and put less pressure on the host.

Tbh that's all I can think of for any game using 'th infinite power of the cloud'. Is a nice benefit though after a generation of peer to peer online

I think this is what it really boils down to. Every game can have net storage and dedicated servers with the servers having more potential power than the console itself. Technically this frees up a bit of resources if you don't have to worry about integrating the host-server stuff alongside the client code.

 

[eso76]

In the video and shots released you can clearly see shadows etc are baked.

Eh, no you can't, really.
From the low resolution of the shadows on the road i'd say it's the opposite if i had to guess, but you can't be sure either way.

I agree that cloud can't help with dynamic shadows, but frankly, even the chances they're using it for baked shadows are almost non-existant. It's possible in theory, but it would be pointless and not practical at all. Users would have to download track textures each time, if anything, it would be better to bake shadows locally and store the new textures on your hdd.

 

[Red Chocobo]

What are the odds they have something spectacular to reveal with this cloud power?

Very small.

 

[TheOddOne]

It's funny seeing GAF get so mad over a marketing term.

Basically. Never trust these marketing terms and never put weight behind them.

 

[Tesseract]

 

[SniperHunter]

Basically. Never trust these marketing terms and never put weight behind them.

Don Mattrick

"Now, with Xbox One, we're stretching the canvas again so creators can design for the cloud with every game they make," he said. "In the next decade, every great game will tap the power of the cloud to deliver richer, more immersive worlds. We have a great offline game system in Xbox 360 that gets better when it's connected. We could have made another offline console, but then offline would have been the lowest common denominator design point for developers. We chose to take the progressive path."

Also they said something about Xbox One being 40X more powerful than Xbox 360 when using cloud computing.

“It’s also been stated that the Xbox One is ten times more powerful than the Xbox 360, so we’re effectively 40 times greater than the Xbox 360 in terms of processing capabilities [using the cloud]. If you look to the cloud as something that is no doubt going to evolve and grow over time, it really spells out that there’s no limit to where the processing power of Xbox One can go. I think that’s a very exciting proposition, not only for Australians, but anyone else who’s going to pick up the Xbox One console.”

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=564405

sounds like real technology to me....