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Forza Motorsport 4 - The Floodgates Have Opened...

Jamesways

Jamesways

Member
Mascot said:
I fear we've known ALL of the new tracks since 1st April when the leaked trailer emerged:

Bernese Alps
Top Gear Test Track
Hockenheimring
Infineon Raceway
Indianapolis Motor Speedway

Although it was dropped for the 'official' trailer that 'five new environments' statement was there for a reason, and there's been nothing in the four months since to suggest that any tracks other than these will ship with the game. I'm bracing myself for that eventuality and have come to accept it. If true, it will undoubtedly be Forza 4's biggest let-down, especially as one of those five (TGTT) is really nothing more than a novelty and will be pretty useless as a racing circuit.

To ignore the rich and varied selection of real-world tracks available (Spa, Interlagos, and Bathurst to name but three) is borderline criminal, as is under-utilising your in-house designers who have proven their ability to create fantastic original racing environments (Maple Valley, Fujimi Kaido, Bernese Alps, Shipyards). If more tracks are planned as DLC to maximise revenue then great, but these need integrating into the career mode for useres to get maximum value from them.

Dan must be living in a bubble if he doesn't realise by now that more tracks above everything else is what the franchise needs, and it shouldn't take an inferior product like Shift 2 to pave the way and show how it should be done.

Forza 4 is still my most anticipated game of 2011 but the lack of track variety will continue to be an albatross around its neck.
Click to expand...

Thank god for your post Mascot, I was starting to think I was crazy. Surely I can't be the only one who's a bit concerned about the tracks? I know the game will be great, the graphics look good, the use of the Top Gear license is awesome, they fixed the FOV for the cockpits, etc.

But new cars or not, how different will the experience be if we've been racing on almost all of those tracks from 3, and 80% of those from 2 already? And if they've added no track texture and it's still the glass smooth ride, I worry it's going to feel exactly like the previous games.

I was leery of counting the environments seen in the trailer as officially confirmed, since they ran a trailer that showed Alpine Ring for FM2 and that never made it in. Badned hasn't confirmed Infineon quite yet.

You're right about Shift 2, it has a hefty track list. Toca 2 and Race Pro, another 2 games with great track lists. Real world tracks like these games have really need to be in Forza or GT IMO.

It just seems a shame to tout the ALMS license and add no tracks to it. You can't even run a Championship series in it. Hopefully we'll get some updated cars or liveries at least. The 12-16 car grids will be a big plus for this in custom mixed race lobbies, you can have more than just 2 cars per class now.

I'm still going to buy it the LE day one, still will buy every DLC pack they offer, still going paint a slew of race replicas (I'm a painting OCD addict), but I'm worried about the track variery. Time will tell though, maybe they've got some big surprises left.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Seanspeed said:
Its what you want, not necessarily what the game needs. Shift 2 may have a great tracklist, but it lacks in more areas than it exceeds. It doesn't have half the features of Forza 4 and less than half the amount of cars. I know YOU might they compromise on the car list for more tracks, but it doesn't mean thats what the franchise needs.

Anyways, I love lots of tracks, too, and I see little reason to complain about the available track list. Forza 3 already had a pretty nice size list and 5 more new environments isn't shabby, in my opinion. Probably about the same as the jump from Forza 2 to 3, isn't it?

This is a huge game, guys. The way some of you make it sound, you'd think there's only like a dozen tracks in the game.
Click to expand...
You have a point there. But still, I would love maybe a few more real life circuits in the game.
At the moment FM3 has around 12 of them I think. 3 or four more 'fan favourites' would do a world of good imo. The obligatory Spa and Bathurst alone would make a lot of people happy. Add two more and you're good to go for a game like Forza..
 
F

FunnyBunny

Member
eso76 said:
5 new locales isn't much to be honest but i'm sure T10 will have a better offer in terms of DLC this time around, with more than ONE track which isn't even used in career mode.
Right, T10 ?
Click to expand...

Career variety will get a big boost if Turn 10 adds the five new locals (likely several layouts) and includes Sidewinder and the Ring's GP layout in career. That right there could be 12-15 tracks that did not make an appearance in Forza 3's career mode.

I'm beating a dead horse, I know, but I fantasize about Forza incorporating PGR 4's tracks somehow. I love city tracks, the layouts are terrific and there are wonderful elevation changes. It would add 9 more locales!

I understand its easier said than done. PGR4 ran at 30fps and the texture quality was through the roof. But Microsoft has all that data just sitting there. And unless I've missed something, I don't see PGR returning anytime soon. There's no sense wasting it.
 
R

RayStorm

Member
Seanspeed said:
Its what you want, not necessarily what the game needs. Shift 2 may have a great tracklist, but it lacks in more areas than it exceeds. It doesn't have half the features of Forza 4 and less than half the amount of cars. I know YOU might they compromise on the car list for more tracks, but it doesn't mean thats what the franchise needs.

Anyways, I love lots of tracks, too, and I see little reason to complain about the available track list. Forza 3 already had a pretty nice size list and 5 more new environments isn't shabby, in my opinion. Probably about the same as the jump from Forza 2 to 3, isn't it?

This is a huge game, guys. The way some of you make it sound, you'd think there's only like a dozen tracks in the game.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly I fail to see how Forza 4 needs more cars. But aside from that, it obviously is what sells games, so I'm not going to argue that.

What I'm going to argue however is that the available track list is sufficient.
You do understand that I've been racing on the same tracks for however many hundreds of hours and 3 games?
You do see that Forza 1 for crying out loud, the first part of the series had the most varied track list? I don't really understand how a successor (mind you 3 successors) later we still have a worse variety of tracks.

The career mode is a chore and has been in Forza 2 as well in a large part due to racing on the same tracks over and over and over and over again.

What Forza needs is a much improved track list. More variety.

And now I'm going to backtrack on my initial statement, because I too am firmly in the camp of people that only need a small variety of cars. While I agree that an impressive list of cars is nice to have, it's just that. It's not essential. Or at least it shouldn't be as much as the tracks you actually race on.

If at least there was going to be weather and night racing I would be somewhat okay with the known tracks. But that's probably not going to happen, so...

TLDR: If all 20 (or whatever many environments there are) in Forza 4 were completely new and not mostly rehashes from Forza 3, 2 and 1 I wouldn't complain. But I just am fed up of ever racing on the same few tracks.
 
S

ShapeGSX

Member
RayStorm said:
Quite frankly I fail to see how Forza 4 needs more cars.
Click to expand...

Two reasons.
1. New cars come out every year.
2. Everyone likes different cars.

I don't really care about Australian cars, but I know a lot of people are looking forward to them.
 
Jamesways

Jamesways

Member
My main gripe is the with the ALMS license. I know track licensing is difficult sometimes, but they only have 4 of them. 4 out 9, 10 if you count St. Petersburg from last year.

That's the use of the license? No other tracks added? Just cars, most likely the same 2009 ones as 3 had or a few updated 2010 liveries?

Balitmore is new to ALMS this year, what a wonderful opportunity for Turn 10 to throw it in the game, it isn't in any other game. There you go, another technical city course for variety. And fans have wanted Mosport and Mid-Ohio for a long time as well.

So instead Turn 10 spends "1000 hours" modeling a fictional Alps track. And ignoring fans requests for years for Spa, Bathurst, and other real world tracks.

It just doesn't seem logical.
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
Probably will be a DLC track. Didn't FM3 get Nurburgring GP? Also, wasn't Road America DLC for FM2? Tracks take much longer to create than cars, so who knows. We'll probably hear something after launch.

Also, night racing (and weather) on the old tracks would have breathed new life into them, without having to invest the same amount of resources as creating a brand new track. They could also somehow change the ribbons on the older tracks, especially the fantasy ones.
 
S

sneaky77

Member
skyfinch said:
Probably will be a DLC track. Didn't FM3 get Nurburgring GP? Also, wasn't Road America DLC for FM2? Tracks take much longer to create than cars, so who knows. We'll probably hear something after launch.
Click to expand...

Thats only really useful if it gets added to the Career events, which from what I remember in FM3 it didn't
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
skyfinch said:
Probably will be a DLC track. Didn't FM3 get Nurburgring GP? Also, wasn't Road America DLC for FM2? Tracks take much longer to create than cars, so who knows. We'll probably hear something after launch.

Also, night racing (and weather) on the old tracks would have breathed new life into them, without having to invest the same amount of resources as creating a brand new track. They could also somehow change the ribbons on the older tracks, especially the fantasy ones.
Click to expand...
I think I remember hearing that dlc will be integrated into the career this time around which would make a whole lot of sense.

I also agree with your assesment on night/weather on the older tracks. A variable such as night gives the old a complete new lease on life. Even if somebody has raced the track a hundred times, adding night/weather changes a lot of things such as braking points, speed, acceleration, racing lines..etc.
I mean, even if we didn't get dynamic/static rain,snow or whatever, at least give us a wet track kinda like the one in GT4. It would add so much to the game.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
cjelly said:
Not officially, I don't think.

Bizarre gave quite a few out in contests, and I think they were part of a PR pack that some press got.
Click to expand...
Yeah they gave out a few in contests. I won a PGR3 poster signed by the devs, so I guess that makes up for that :p

still so sexy.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
I canceled my LE order today, sorry turn10 but the loss of my F3 save after nearly 2 years plus the stupid price for the LE has turned me away, the cycle of owning the best version every time has been broken :(
 
C

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Diablohead said:
I canceled my LE order today, sorry turn10 but the loss of my F3 save after nearly 2 years plus the stupid price for the LE has turned me away, the cycle of owning the best version every time has been broken :(
Click to expand...
You will be joining the Crownless peasants.
 
X

Xanadu

Banned
timeofday_0sms.jpg
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Microsoft renamed the MGS to Microsoft Studios and unveiled the rebranding at E3 this year.

MicrosoftStudiosLogo.png


Every (promo) picture with the MGS logo should be quite old.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
brotkasten said:
Microsoft renamed the MGS to Microsoft Studios and unveiled the rebranding at E3 this year.
Click to expand...

good, upon booting Fm3 i was just thinking the MGS motion graphics intro looked very outdated, here's hoping they came up with something sleeker.
 
F

Fortinbras

Member
The lackluster track selection is the reason why I'm not going to buy FM4 day 1. I'm really getting tired of driving the same old tracks over and over again.

The career mode seems to be more locale based this time so it shouldn't be a problem to add new dlc tracks to the career.

I'll wait for the more complete version of Forza 4 which should be released next year.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
brotkasten said:
Microsoft renamed the MGS to Microsoft Studios and unveiled the rebranding at E3 this year.

Every (promo) picture with the MGS logo should be quite old.
Click to expand...
This might sound a bit trollish, but removing "Game" does tell us a lot about the direction they are going.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Fortinbras said:
The lackluster track selection is the reason why I'm not going to buy FM4 day 1. I'm really getting tired of driving the same old tracks over and over again.

The career mode seems to be more locale based this time so it shouldn't be a problem to add new dlc tracks to the career.

I'll wait for the more complete version of Forza 4 which should be released next year.
Click to expand...
We don't know the whole track count yet so it's still a little early to be jumping to conclusions.
Edit: Confirmed tracks so far- Forzacentral list

Autodromo Internazionale del Mugello (Italy)
- Full Circuit
- Club Circuit
Bernese Alps(Switzerland)
- Festival Circuit
- Festival Circuit Reverse
- Stadtplatz Circuit
- Stadtplatz Circuit Reverse
- Club Circuit
- Club Circuit Reverse
Circuit de Catalunya (Spain)
- Grand Prix Circuit
- National Circuit
- School Circuit
Hockenheimring (Germany)
- Grand Prix Circuit
- TBA
Indianapolis Motor Speedway (USA)
- Speedway
- Road Course
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca (USA)
- Full Circuit
Montserrat (Spain)
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Full Circuit
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Full Circuit Reverse
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Short Circuit
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Short Circuit Reverse
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Mini Circuit
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Mini Circuit Reverse
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Extreme Circuit
- Camino Viejo de Montserrat Extreme Circuit Reverse
- Iberian International Circuit Full Circuit
- Iberian International Circuit Full Circuit Reverse
- Iberian International Circuit Short Circuit
- Iberian International Circuit Short Circuit Reverse
- Iberian International Circuit Mini Circuit
- Iberian International Circuit Mini Circuit Reverse
- Ladera Test Track Full Circuit
- Ladera Test Track Full Circuit Reverse
- Ladera Test Track Short Circuit
- Ladera Test Track Short Circuit Reverse
- Ladera Test Track Mini Circuit
- Ladera Test Track Mini Circuit Reverse
Nürburgring (Germany)
- Grand Prix Circuit
- TBA
Road America (USA)
- Full Circuit
Road Atlanta (USA)
- Full Circuit
- Club Circuit
Sebring International Raceway (USA)
- Full Circuit
- Short Circuit
- Club Circuit
Silverstone Racing Circuit (England)
- Grand Prix Circuit
- International Circuit
- National Circuit
Suzuka Circuit (Japan)
- Full Circuit
- East Circuit
- West Circuit
Top Gear Test Track (England)
- Full Circuit
- Outer Loop
- ¼-Mile Drag Strip
- TBA
Tsukuba Circuit (Japan)
- Full Circuit
- Short Circuit
 
B

brotkasten

Member
saladine1 said:
We don't know the whole track count yet so it's still a little early to be jumping to conclusions.
Edit: Confirmed tracks so far- Forzacentral list
Click to expand...

I hate all those small and mini circuits. I'd like to know why they don't port some FM1 tracks over and polish them a bit. It won't look great, sure, but it worked for Fujimi Kaido.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
brotkasten said:
I hate all those small and mini circuits. I'd like to know why they don't port some FM1 tracks over and polish them a bit. It won't looks great, sure, but it worked for Fujimi Kaido.
Click to expand...
Lol. Yeah, perhaps full and short Camino,Iberian and Ladera tracks would have sufficed rather than having all those reverses,minis and extremes..
We'll probably get the same amount of variations in the Bernese Alps too seeing how that's FM4's showcase track..
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
brotkasten said:
I hate all those small and mini circuits. I'd like to know why they don't port some FM1 tracks over and polish them a bit. It won't look great, sure, but it worked for Fujimi Kaido.
Click to expand...
Fujimi Kaido in FM3 is hardly a mere 'port' of the original track. It was extensively redone, and was made 2x longer into a loop. I'm sure quite a lot of work went into it.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Seanspeed said:
Fujimi Kaido in FM3 is hardly a mere 'port' of the original track. It was extensively redone, and was made 2x longer into a loop. I'm sure quite a lot of work went into it.
Click to expand...
I didn't know this. I always assumed it was a FM1 port with a bit polish, because it never really looked like a 360 track.
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
Now that we are getting Indianapolis (including the road circuit) I wonder if they will still include Sunset Peninsula? Some of the layouts were interesting but yeah...it's pretty much the same thing.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
The making of says they went to Swiss and Italian alps, maybe they still have Stelvio pass (or an environment resembling the Stelvio pass) to unveil ? Tbh though, i think we've seen everything about that environment at this point and Badned confirmed Bernese alps ribbons don't connect to make a single long track.

Btw, while we know there's 5 new locales this doesn't rule out the possibility that the guys at T10 designed new tracks in existing environments. For example, New York could now include the old Fm1 layout and several more, which wouldn't contradict the "5 all new locales" statement.
 
W

watership

Member
brotkasten said:
I didn't know this. I always assumed it was a FM1 port with a bit polish, because it never really looked like a 360 track.
Click to expand...

That FM3 track was gorgeous. You should go back to Forza 1's track and play it to see the difference.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
eso76 said:
The making of says they went to Swiss and Italian alps, maybe they still have Stelvio pass (or an environment resembling the Stelvio pass) to unveil ? Tbh though, i think we've seen everything about that environment at this point and Badned confirmed Bernese alps ribbons don't connect to make a single long track.

Btw, while we know there's 5 new locales this doesn't rule out the possibility that the guys at T10 designed new tracks in existing environments. For example, New York could now include the old Fm1 layout and several more, which wouldn't contradict the "5 all new locales" statement.
Click to expand...
The 5 locales statement isn't nessacarily set in stone though. They could detract from that or add on top..who knows?
Hopefully, this week's daily reveals include some new tracks instead of just cars...
 
D

Dead Man

Member
saladine1 said:
We don't know the whole track count yet so it's still a little early to be jumping to conclusions.
Edit: Confirmed tracks so far- Forzacentral list

Short list
Click to expand...
Oh. That's a bit underwhelming. Are many more tracks expected?
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Dead Man said:
Oh. That's a bit underwhelming. Are many more tracks expected?
Click to expand...
At the moment, there are hints of Spa and Bathurst flying around. Perhaps a new ALMS circuit and possibly an autocross circuit of somekind. Beyond that, we don't really know.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
saladine1 said:
At the moment, there are hints of Spa and Bathurst flying around. Perhaps a new ALMS circuit and possibly an autocross circuit of somekind. Beyond that, we don't really know.
Click to expand...
Bathurst? Really? That would make me buy a console. What was the last game with Bathurst? One of the Codemasters PS2 games?
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Dead Man said:
Bathurst? Really? That would make me buy a console. What was the last game with Bathurst? One of the Codemasters PS2 games?
Click to expand...
SHIFT 2 and GRID PS3 version had Bathurst.
The Mount Panorama hint (read: confirmation) came via a very reliable source so that's one for the good guys..
 
S

soundscream

Member
saladine1 said:
The 5 locales statement isn't nessacarily set in stone though. They could detract from that or add on top..who knows?
Hopefully, this week's daily reveals include some new tracks instead of just cars...
Click to expand...
tumblr_lp89foefnU1qfjej5o1_400.gif
 
D

Dead Man

Member
saladine1 said:
SHIFT 2 and GRID PS3 version had Bathurst.
The Mount Panorama hint (read: confirmation) came via a very reliable source so that's one for the good guys..
Click to expand...
Grid PS3? Really? I have that, and don't recall the mountain on there. Too bad the servers were already shut down for that one.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
brotkasten said:
I didn't know this. I always assumed it was a FM1 port with a bit polish, because it never really looked like a 360 track.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should look at the original. Like with the standard cars in GT5 it's easy to forget how bad games in the last generation looked, especially close up.
 
S

squared

Member
Having good tracks is nice and of course crucial - but for me, so is car modifications and features for modifying things on my cars. My ultimate wet dream is a Forza-game with a very detailed engine tuning feature.

Anyone played older drag racing games like NIRA Import Drag Racing or IHRA Drag Racing (was available for the original Xbox)? Very low budget games, but they have a very detailed engine buidling/tuning system. Number of cylinders, bore, stroke, custom cams, heads, turbo/superchargers etc. Now I don't think a Forza-type game could work with such a detailed system, but at least a system which has engine damage, and gives you an ability to set timing, boost, fuel pressure etc. Basically giving you the ability to tune your own car, and being able to suffer the consequences from a bad tune.

Being able to set the boost higher and thus making more power, but with side effect of having turbo lag, making you slower in tight turns..

It's kinda boring seeing maxed out cars having the eeeeexact same numbers, atleast power/torque-wise.
 
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