Support NeoGAF

[Turk1993]

In the final version of Forza do the trees have movement or are they static? in the trailer they moved with the wind

They move with the wind and weather.

 

[SlimySnake]

btw them stutters probs dont happpen on something midrange like i5 10400f

i told df in comments and from twitter countless times: zen 2 cpus aged something horrid due to ccx structure.

its just unusal that a, say, %30 slower cpu on paper gets %100 worse %1 lows. that only happens if the cpu is architecturally flawed. and since a regular run off the mild i5 9400f is not architecturally flawed, if it is %50 slower than a 13900k, it will be %50 slower in terms of %1 lows too

its clear that zen 2 products that are %30-40 slower than new products produce abhorrent %100 -150 slower %1 lows

this is completely on AMD. nothing to do with devs. they don't have to cater to special "sauce" ccx structure the amd abused to sell those chips for cheap.

there's a reason zen 3 and onwards are more expensive. not only for amd greed but also because they cannot rely on ccx structure anymore. they keep doing CCD stuff but only on 12+ cores. it is clear devs communicated them and stopped them in their tracks. ccx stuff helped them get great prices and great yields. but it is also hard to code for, probably.

ccx endured ps4 era ports due to sheer raw power and problems never were exposed back then (aside from rare "games" like flight simulator where zen 2 would fail colossaly. now it happens in every other game)

Alex needs to stop testing with these zen 2 systems and making claims without properly testing his games. he did the same with starfield. meanwhile im having no issues with the game on my intel CPU even in atlantis.

do we have steam hardware surverys on CPUs like we do for GPUs? These fucking PC youtubers misled their fanbases trashing intel CPUs for their poor thermals and power consumption and have not issued any corrections or follow ups.

 

[SlimySnake]

Couple of more comparison pics.

GT has an IQ advantage here since the FM pics are using the RT Perf mode which runs at a lower average resolution. I prefer the way the FM pics are lit though, and the trackside details are also a notable step up on FM, IMO.

I think some people just like the look of the GT games and dont care for the overly bright artstyle Forza is going for. I showed my wife the poll on this thread then all the comparison gifs ive done so far and she picked GT every time. She liked the crushed black and subdued lighting in GT7. I am divorcing her as we speak.

 

[FunkMiller]

Regardless of any other considerations, GT7 wins because it provides the single greatest VR experience available today. It's quite magnificent.

 

[Markio128]

Does anyone know if the cockpit view in FM shows the back seats and rear windscreen when you look back? That’s one nice touch GT7 has - it feels like you are actually sitting in a car.

 

[BigLee74]

How is it that Playground are beating turn 10 at their own game?

I don't understand why the cars in FM have issue where they don't look metallic?

You can clearly see it in both examples here (the second example the black car isn't even black anymore):

It should look like it did in the reveal footage, the material shaders have taken a hit and it doesn't make sense why considering they are still intact in Horizon 5.

Source of the yellow Mazda pictures? Because it looks exactly like one is simply a matte paint job and the other isn’t.

And second photo looks metallic, just not as deep black for whatever reason.

Unless you are seriously trying to peddle that Turn 10 can’t do metallic paint? I mean, come on!

 

[Markio128]

I think some people just like the look of the GT games and dont care for the overly bright artstyle Forza is going for. I showed my wife the poll on this thread then all the comparison gifs ive done so far and she picked GT every time. She liked the crushed black and subdued lighting in GT7. I am divorcing her as we speak.

She sounds like a keeper to me.

 

[Turk1993]

Does anyone know if the cockpit view in FM shows the back seats and rear windscreen when you look back? That’s one nice touch GT7 has - it feels like you are actually sitting in a car.

No.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Regardless of any other considerations, GT7 wins because it provides the single greatest VR experience available today. It's quite magnificent.

Some in the Xbox camp feel a type of vindication with the improved lighting videos. While it certainly helps, GT7 retains several advantages (the most important being the cars). Bottom line is FM8 should dust it, and it simply does not. There's no sugar coating or hoolla-hoop dancing out of it. It's either a testament to PD (point noted — they're a damn fine team), or FM8 falls short of what one would expect from a current gen only game. with 6 years of dev time — particularly a driving/racing simulator.

 

[SlimySnake]

Is there a PC performance thread for this game? Watching the Daniel Owen video on FSR and DLSS and going from native to FSR performance nets him 4 fps. yes, 4. How do you a ship a first party game like this?

 

[Venom Snake]

I think some people just like the look of the GT games and dont care for the overly bright artstyle Forza is going for. I showed my wife the poll on this thread then all the comparison gifs ive done so far and she picked GT every time. She liked the crushed black and subdued lighting in GT7. I am divorcing her as we speak.

So she doesn't like overly bright, but likes crushed, black and subdued. Well, i'm white, but eveything else sort of matches, just saying

 

[Markio128]

Some in the Xbox camp feel some type of vindication with the improved lighting videos. While it helps, it doesn't remove the other advantages that GT7 still has (the most important being the cars). Bottom line is FM8 should dust it, and it simply does not. There's no sugar coating or hoolla-hoop dancing out of it. It's either a testament to PD (point noted — they're a damn fine team), or FM8 falls short of what one would expect from a current gen only game. Particularly a driving/racing simulator.

PD are legends after the VR update as far as I’m concerned. Other than the obvious exclusion of split-screen, there are literally no compromises. In fact, it probably performs better than the flat version as far as keeping a solid framerate goes. And with the foveated rendering, it looks better than it has any right to. Pure wizardry.

Edit: I suspect this is why other devs aren’t showing up with VR modes in their driving games on PSVR2 - because they’ll need serious work to stand up to GT7. I guess it’s much easier to just tack on a VR mode for PC.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Is there a PC performance thread for this game? Watching the Daniel Owen video on FSR and DLSS and going from native to FSR performance nets him 4 fps. yes, 4. How do you a ship a first party game like this?

We kind of need a PC performance thread as that talk is getting scattered amongst the other threads

 

[poppabk]

Is there a PC performance thread for this game? Watching the Daniel Owen video on FSR and DLSS and going from native to FSR performance nets him 4 fps. yes, 4. How do you a ship a first party game like this?

Hopefully this is fixed by the time they release it, seems like a particularly nasty bug but one that is presumably easy to fix.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Just watched the 2022 Reveal vs Retail trailer. Initially, I was going to give FM8 its due, because I didn't see that big of differences, but as the vid progresses, you can really see what took hits. Foliage, lighting (this especially), and reflections look markedly worse than the reveal.

 

[GHG]

Is there a PC performance thread for this game? Watching the Daniel Owen video on FSR and DLSS and going from native to FSR performance nets him 4 fps. yes, 4. How do you a ship a first party game like this?

You were posting in a thread that was relevant to this earlier:

Forza Motorsport’s PC Performance Is Highly Disappointing (wccftech)

Maybe a thread title and first post update would stop people from jumping in and saying nonsense because WCCFTech can't make a PC test ? It's baffling how people can trust any "review" without even verifying if it's the truth or not 🙄 If we get to shit on a MS title we dont need to verify...

www.neogaf.com

Source of the yellow Mazda pictures? Because it looks exactly like one is simply a matte paint job and the other isn’t.

And second photo looks metallic, just not as deep black for whatever reason.

Unless you are seriously trying to peddle that Turn 10 can’t do metallic paint? I mean, come on!

Try reading the rest of the thread.

People can only make observations based on the images available at the time.

 

[adamsapple]

Some in the Xbox camp feel a type of vindication with the improved lighting videos. While it certainly helps, GT7 retains several advantages (the most important being the cars). Bottom line is FM8 should dust it, and it simply does not. There's no sugar coating or hoolla-hoop dancing out of it. It's either a testament to PD (point noted — they're a damn fine team), or FM8 falls short of what one would expect from a current gen only game. with 6 years of dev time — particularly a driving/racing simulator.

Bizarre analogy.

GT7 is a PS5 native game, not an up-scaled PS4 port. GT7 had a 5~ year gap between Sport and it, FM has a 6~ year gap between FM7 and it, the development time is also broadly comparable, neither game was pushed out in 18 months.

FM has some notable technical advantages that GT doesn't, which they will likely rectify for the next game (like RT in-game) meanwhile GT has always poured more attention to detail compared to Forza when it comes to the car models.

The lighting in FM is technically better with the GI, but some people prefer the more contrasty, darker, look of GT. That part is subjective as SlimySnake will attest in his divorce papers.

 

[Turk1993]

As you're probably the only one who knows what they're talking about with the graphics comparison, what's the difference in the lighting model between Motorsport and GT7 if any?

It all depends on the tod, sometimes i like the lighting in GT7 more and sometimes i like the lighting in FM more. But the lighting in GT7 is sometimes too dark and in Forza its sometimes too bright. Both are much much better in HDR which most people here can't see in those youtube video's. Im making some comparisons for later todat so you can judge by yourself. Both have excellent lighting so its a win win.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Bizarre analogy.

GT7 is a PS5 native game, not an up-scaled PS4 port. GT7 had a 5~ year gap between Sport and it, FM has a 6~ year gap between FM7 and it, the development time is also broadly comparable, neither game was pushed out in 18 months.

FM has some notable technical advantages that GT doesn't, which they will likely rectify for the next game (like RT in-game) meanwhile GT has always poured more attention to detail compared to Forza when it comes to the car models.

The lighting in FM is technically better with the GI, but some people prefer the more contrasty, darker, look of GT. That part is subjective as SlimySnake will attest in his divorce papers.

No, sir. GT7 is a cross gen game. You can make excuses all you want, but that's what it is. Spider-Man 2/Ratchet/Demon's Souls/Returnal. Those are native PS5 games.

As far as advantages with FM8, you shouldn't have to highlight them for me. It should be a no-brainer. The fact that you have to says it all. It's simply a step above the previous game (and even then, it's not a huge difference). Never mind GT7. It doesn't even blow FM7 away, despite advantages. That's the bigger tragedy, and this doesn't even touch on the obvious downgrades from the reveal.

 

[Markio128]

Bizarre analogy.

GT7 is a PS5 native game, not an up-scaled PS4 port. GT7 had a 5~ year gap between Sport and it, FM has a 6~ year gap between FM7 and it, the development time is also broadly comparable, neither game was pushed out in 18 months.

FM has some notable technical advantages that GT doesn't, which they will likely rectify for the next game (like RT in-game) meanwhile GT has always poured more attention to detail compared to Forza when it comes to the car models.

The lighting in FM is technically better with the GI, but some people prefer the more contrasty, darker, look of GT. That part is subjective as SlimySnake will attest in his divorce papers.

GT7 also has a fully fledged VR mode. It can’t be underestimated as a feature of the game. Granted, it wasn’t there at release, but then, neither was PSVR2.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

GT7 also has a fully fledged VR mode.

I keep forgetting this. Really puts in perspective who's lacking here.

Really, for a game built from the ground up, the fact that you can find old assets and a modest upgrade from the previous game brings to question that claim.

 

[adamsapple]

No, sir. GT7 is a cross gen game. You can make excuses all you want, but that's what it is. Spider-Man 2/Ratchet/Demon's Souls/Returnal. Those are native PS5 games.

GT7 was announced and marketed as a PS5 game for year(s) before the PS4 version was randomly announced when there was a shortage of consoles.

Forget business sense, Sony’s cross-gen U-turn is disappointing for PS5’s potential | VGC

Sony’s PS4 announcements mean we’ll likely have to wait for Mark Cerny’s SSD future…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Gran Turismo 7, after all, was outright advertised as a PS5 exclusive in December, although to be fair to Sony, I understand the decision to release a PS4 version was made only fairly recently. For Horizon Forbidden West and God of War, however, these games were always intended to release as cross-gen titles,

 

[HeWhoWalks]

GT7 was announced and marketed as a PS5 game for year(s) before the PS4 version was randomly announced when there was a shortage of consoles.

Forget business sense, Sony’s cross-gen U-turn is disappointing for PS5’s potential | VGC

Sony’s PS4 announcements mean we’ll likely have to wait for Mark Cerny’s SSD future…

www.videogameschronicle.com

"Randomly announced" doesn't mean "randomly created". No matter how many times you tell yourself this, that doesn't change anything. It was created with a PS4 version in mind. It wasn't ported to it. FM8 does not blow away a cross gen game. It is what it is.

 

[BigLee74]

You were posting in a thread that was relevant to this earlier:

Forza Motorsport’s PC Performance Is Highly Disappointing (wccftech)

Maybe a thread title and first post update would stop people from jumping in and saying nonsense because WCCFTech can't make a PC test ? It's baffling how people can trust any "review" without even verifying if it's the truth or not 🙄 If we get to shit on a MS title we dont need to verify...

www.neogaf.com

Try reading the rest of the thread.

People can only make observations based on the images available at the time.

Oh I read the thread, thanks (why so condescending all the time? that’s a real ugly trait you’ve got going there). I also read you saying ‘I don’t understand why the cars don’t look metallic?’.

Doesn’t really take much to step back and consider it’s because it’s a different paint finish before jumping straight to conclusions. Kind of like what I did.

 

[adamsapple]

"Randomly announced" doesn't mean "randomly created". No matter how many times you tell yourself this, that doesn't change anything. It was created with a PS4 version in mind. It wasn't ported to it. FM8 does not blow away a cross gen game. It is what it is.

I'm glad you edited that draconian last portion of the post lol.

Anyway, to your point.

When the game was announced, they explicitly said it will not be made for PS4:

Gran Turismo 7 Won’t be Cross-Gen, Releasing Exclusively for PS5

gamingbolt.com

Along with comments on how the game is going to utilize the PS5 to its fullest.

"Gran Turismo 7 is going to benefit from almost every single technological enhancement that we have in PlayStation 5."

Gran Turismo 7 will leverage PlayStation 5's full next-gen tech

Gran Turismo 7 will be the first major PlayStation 5 exclusive to show off the console's true power.

www.tweaktown.com

-

It's extremely obvious making the game cross-gen was a very late addition, the game was developed first and foremost as a PS5 title.

FM on current gen looks better than GT7 on current gen, to me at least, it is what it is. It may be different to you, but the results are not painted by any last-gen holdovers. Both games were made for the respective new generation of consoles.

 

[RobRSG]

I'm not really talking about spectacle though guys, more visual flair. I guess I just want a little extra oomph to the game's style, which in turn would add to it's visual flair. I will attempt to compare Motorsport to other games of it's type to make it a fairer comparison.

Ride 4 is a good example of another game that makes me ask 'why can't Forza Motorsport look and feel like this?'

It's another game that makes me feel like I'm looking at a movie at times.

Replay Only.

But don’t tell anyone.

 

[adamsapple]

Replay Only.

But don’t tell anyone.

NGL I will probably get motion sick, too much head-bobbing. I'm the guy who turns off or lowers camera sway when given the option.

 

[Markio128]

Personally, I think the only visual improvements that GT8 will need are with the trackside detail and weather effects. I can’t see the car models needing any improvement, so that’ll save on resources. The dynamic weather/time of day elements are already built in to the engine, albeit not on all tracks, and RT is also present in replays and menus.

It’ll just be a question of how much juice they can squeeze out of the PS5, or the rumoured PS5+, without needing to worry about the PS4.

In all fairness, I think FM looks great in some instances, but it hasn’t left much of a gap for PD to fill from what I’ve seen.

 

[March Climber]

Replay Only.

Here's gameplay. Honestly I don't even know why I had to search this since everyone here has youtube and google.

 

[benzy]

Couple of more comparison pics.

GT has an IQ advantage here since the FM pics are using the RT Perf mode which runs at a lower average resolution. I prefer the way the FM pics are lit though, and the trackside details are also a notable step up on FM, IMO.

Something's off with their capture or video editing output. GT7's colors never get weirdly contrasted and blown out like that, and I'm pretty sure they're just using the car's factory colors.

 

[adamsapple]

Something's off with their capture or video editing output. GT7's colors never get weirdly contrasted and blown out like that, and I'm pretty sure they're just using the car's factory colors.

Those pictures are not direct feed, they are captures from a youtube comparison video. I used the Youtube Enhancer plugin's screenshot feature. Some compression would apply to both games respective sides, I reckon.


This is the source video:

 

[sinnergy]

Something's off with their capture or video editing output. GT7's colors never get weirdly contrasted and blown out like that, and I'm pretty sure they're just using the car's factory colors.

From a technical point of view not. 1 has real-timeRay tracing , the other doesn’t . And a real-time GI system.

 

[RobRSG]

Here's gameplay. Honestly I don't even know why I had to search this since everyone here has youtube and google.

Well, you came up with Replay videos…

Next time be less misleading.

 

[cormack12]

It's pretty obvious that either game (or even driveclub) can be made to look the best depending on what you choose to show. I regret reading this thread, GT7 and FM both looked almost real to me, now they both look like games thanks to seeing all the nit-picking.

The days of pixel counting were dark days

How can we tell what resolution a game is rendering?

There's been a lot of talk recently about rendering resolution and upscaling for games. During the discussions, I've seen people confused about how a screenshot or video that's 1080p can reliably indicate a game's rendering res is less than that. Some have even doubted that it's possible to tell...

www.neogaf.com

 

[FlyyGOD]

Those pictures are not direct feed, they are captures from a youtube comparison video. I used the Youtube Enhancer plugin's screenshot feature. Some compression would apply to both games respective sides, I reckon.


This is the source video:

This is a much better comparison video than IGN. You can really see how much better Forza looks in this video.

 

[eNT1TY]

Forza>GT7>Forza

 

[benzy]

Those pictures are not direct feed, they are captures from a youtube comparison video. I used the Youtube Enhancer plugin's screenshot feature. Some compression would apply to both games respective sides, I reckon.


This is the source video:

Yeah something's off with their colors for the Camaro especially with a darkened weather like that, and it's also a pretty different time/weather comparison.

 

[March Climber]

Well, you came up with Replay videos…

Next time be less misleading.

Alright c'mon, I know when I'm being trolled.

I wasn't being misleading at all this entire time. I even linked a gameplay clip a few posts below the one you quoted earlier to show that the footage matches, which you would have seen if you kept scrolling just an inch further.

 

[Connxtion]

Because the poster use the basic glossy paint instead of the metalic one which makes a huge difference. And the tod is also different which has a impact on the glow of the paint. Here is a example what the real metalic paint looks vs the basic glossy paint you can select in paint editor.

The rear lights are crapper though in the new game. Not sure why as you would think they would be sharing the same assets.

 

[Mr Moose]

Tried to match the video a bit but uhh... I reversed into the other car.

 

[R6Rider]

Here's gameplay. Honestly I don't even know why I had to search this since everyone here has youtube and google.

The Ride games are underrated and I'm not saying that just because I ride.

Still need to get Ride 5.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I'm glad you edited that draconian last portion of the post lol.

Anyway, to your point.

When the game was announced, they explicitly said it will not be made for PS4:

Gran Turismo 7 Won’t be Cross-Gen, Releasing Exclusively for PS5

gamingbolt.com

Along with comments on how the game is going to utilize the PS5 to its fullest.

Gran Turismo 7 will leverage PlayStation 5's full next-gen tech

Gran Turismo 7 will be the first major PlayStation 5 exclusive to show off the console's true power.

www.tweaktown.com

-

It's extremely obvious making the game cross-gen was a very late addition, the game was developed first and foremost as a PS5 title.

FM on current gen looks better than GT7 on current gen, to me at least, it is what it is. It may be different to you, but the results are not painted by any last-gen holdovers. Both games were made for the respective new generation of consoles.

Last portion of my post said basically the same thing as the final. Irrelevant.

Like I said, you can continue to reside in LaLa Land. I know you'd never give certain credit where due. That's fine. Cross gen GT7 competes nicely with next gen only Forza. Accept it.

 

[GHG]

Oh I read the thread, thanks (why so condescending all the time? that’s a real ugly trait you’ve got going there). I also read you saying ‘I don’t understand why the cars don’t look metallic?’.

Doesn’t really take much to step back and consider it’s because it’s a different paint finish before jumping straight to conclusions. Kind of like what I did.

I'm being codesencing towards you because you clearly haven't read the thread.

There is a subsequent post from me in response to Turk1993 that adressess the very thing you're referencing.

 

[Insane Metal]

Tried to match the video a bit but uhh... I reversed into the other car.

GT7 lacks some puddles and reflections but they 100% get the look of a cloudy/rainy day.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Personally, I think the only visual improvements that GT8 will need are with the trackside detail and weather effects. I can’t see the car models needing any improvement, so that’ll save on resources. The dynamic weather/time of day elements are already built in to the engine, albeit not on all tracks, and RT is also present in replays and menus.

It’ll just be a question of how much juice they can squeeze out of the PS5, or the rumoured PS5+, without needing to worry about the PS4.

In all fairness, I think FM looks great in some instances, but it hasn’t left much of a gap for PD to fill from what I’ve seen.

Perhaps some foliage improvements, but agreed. GT's cars remain unmatched, so all it would really need is some RT in-game and a few smaller improvements.

Forza does look great in spots, but I expected a lot better. The next Horizon should do the trick until a new GT races along.

 

[BigLee74]

I'm being codesencing towards you because you clearly haven't read the thread.

There is a subsequent post from me in response to Turk1993 that adressess the very thing you're referencing.

Then please accept my apologies. In my defence, I had read all the way…to the end of the page (without noticing it had moved on). It’s a fast moving thread.

To be fair, the only person I trust in these comparison threads is Turk1993 himself. Clearly a guy that loves racing games, posts fair and detailed comparisons, and with no obvious agenda other than to shoot down those being disingenious!

 

[Taycan77]

You know the games up when people start rolling out wet weather footage and try do dazzle you with unrealistic reflections and overblown rain effects. Better still if you play in 3rd person view, preferably zoomed out to the max. Because that's how all sim racers play! To top it all we get to experience it in glorious 1080p YouTube quality. Compression and artifacts galore!

Both titles look great. They've looked great since the early 2010's. What is now clear is PD and T10 have very different art-style goals. They aren't limited by the technology, it's a stylistic choice.

Anyone who's played GT7 knows it's a technical evolution of GTS. There are some areas where it pushes PS5, but I am expecting a truly generational difference when GT8 (or PS5 only GT7 Spec II) hits the market. PD haven't begun to utilise much of the tech in PS5 due to the cross-gen nature of GT7. At T10 they now have 5+ years to refine FM as we won't be getting a sequel anytime soon. It will be interesting to see what technical developments they implement. But I also wonder if it will date quite soon as new sims and arcade driving titles hit the market.

 

[adamsapple]

PD haven't begun to utilise much of the tech in PS5 due to the cross-gen nature of GT7. At T10 they now have 5+ years to refine FM

Let's dispel this please, GT7 was developed as a PS5 game with a 5~ year development cycle, not too dissimilar to FM.

GT7 is a native PS5 app.

The implication that Polyphony half-assed and didn't utilize the PS5 is pretty inaccurate and quite frankly insulting to them.

 

[Musilla]

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Bizarre analogy.

GT7 is a PS5 native game, not an up-scaled PS4 port. GT7 had a 5~ year gap between Sport and it, FM has a 6~ year gap between FM7 and it, the development time is also broadly comparable, neither game was pushed out in 18 months.

FM has some notable technical advantages that GT doesn't, which they will likely rectify for the next game (like RT in-game) meanwhile GT has always poured more attention to detail compared to Forza when it comes to the car models.

The lighting in FM is technically better with the GI, but some people prefer the more contrasty, darker, look of GT. That part is subjective as SlimySnake will attest in his divorce papers.

Yes GT7 is a native PS5 title, but it needs to run on older hardware, that can limit a lot more than graphics, as the gulf in CPU performance is even bigger than the GPU and I/O.

Both GT7 and FM have backed GI, and for the look of it, they have different goals. The light grading is also quite different.