Carson is the Tea Partier's "I have a black friend!" candidate. They're just feigning interest to throw a smokescreen over their racist tendencies, they'll lose interest real quick when it's a choice between him and a smaller field of crusty white dudes.
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Fox News Poll: Shakeup in GOP field after first debate, Sanders surges on Clinton
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Can someone rank these clowns from least to most evil so I know who to "root for" in that race?
Probably Rubio. But he's still a top-notch liar and an opportunist who will cater to racists (see how he did a 180 on immigration). And he's very eloquent so he's a threat.
I am like a republican here: don't even see a race.
He's only eloquent when he has a bottle of water.
Both Jindal and Rubio delivered SOTU responses and flubbed them. I can't help but wonder if the media attention and hype back then inflated their sense of self worth. Culminating in their presences in the primaries today.
I was replying to the people who would rather vote for "anti-establishment Trump" than Clinton.
Now I have to go watch The Running Man.
freeofgreed
Member
Kasich
Rubio
Bush
Walker
Cruz
Carson
Trump
Satan
Huckabee
Best I could do. Don't know much about Fiorina so I didn't include her.
Wow, would've guessed Trump would be less evil than the other Republican candidates but maybe not.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Depends on what's your poison.
Trump is very hard line on immigration, almost hilariously so.
The others are very hard-line on scraping planned parenthood, abortion, and also putting even more spending into the military.
Carson is just batshit insane.
I'd put Trump closer to chaotic neutral. A lot of his positions are just transparent trolling that's flying over the audience's head, he's much less right-wing than his supporters seem to think. Most of the other guys, on the other hand, are legitimate shitlords who really believe the garbage they spew.
freeofgreed
Member
Yes you're right. I'm exposed to more of Trump's nonsense then the others so I put him a bit lower than he should be.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Trump is definitely the least evil of the bunch. Cruz is pretty much down there with Satan
He wasn't ignored. Ignoring Trump, he got as much speaking time as everyone else.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Black republicans who reinforce white conservative views on black people tend to be very popular on the right. They tend to be trotted out to give credibility to racial arguments about "black culture" or government dependence or alleged democrat racism etc.
Hermain Cain did the same thing in 2012.
I still don't think Sanders is going to win the nomination (I'll be voting for him regardless), but i was surprised the other day when my mom brought him up.
She's traditionally been a low-information swing voter. She voted for Bush twice, then voted for Obama twice. We usually don't really discuss politics, but she asked me what i thought of Trump while we were driving. I laughed and said i thought he was hilarious and had no chance at the presidency. She said "oh good, because I'd be worried about us nuking someone or someone nuking us with that loudmouth asshole as president." Then she asked who i thought was going to be president. I said it would likely be Clinton v Bush and Clinton would probably win. She said "Have you heard of that guy Sanders who's running?" I said yeah, he's been one of my favorite senators for years and I'm voting for him in the primary, but he's got some pretty slim chances of beating Clinton, and she said "that's too bad, i heard an interview with him and everything he said made a lot of sense."
I was surprised she even knew about him, and doubly surprised that she actually intends to vote for him since she's exactly the kind of voter i would have guessed would be instantly repelled by the "socialist" label (she still holds Reagan in high regard). She has definitely become more liberal during the Obama presidency on things like gay rights and healthcare, but i still would have never guessed her supporting Sanders lol. I know it's just an anecdote, but maybe some voters really have been desensitized to the socialism scare tactic after how much the GOP has used it against Obama.
She's traditionally been a low-information swing voter. She voted for Bush twice, then voted for Obama twice. We usually don't really discuss politics, but she asked me what i thought of Trump while we were driving. I laughed and said i thought he was hilarious and had no chance at the presidency. She said "oh good, because I'd be worried about us nuking someone or someone nuking us with that loudmouth asshole as president." Then she asked who i thought was going to be president. I said it would likely be Clinton v Bush and Clinton would probably win. She said "Have you heard of that guy Sanders who's running?" I said yeah, he's been one of my favorite senators for years and I'm voting for him in the primary, but he's got some pretty slim chances of beating Clinton, and she said "that's too bad, i heard an interview with him and everything he said made a lot of sense."
I was surprised she even knew about him, and doubly surprised that she actually intends to vote for him since she's exactly the kind of voter i would have guessed would be instantly repelled by the "socialist" label (she still holds Reagan in high regard). She has definitely become more liberal during the Obama presidency on things like gay rights and healthcare, but i still would have never guessed her supporting Sanders lol. I know it's just an anecdote, but maybe some voters really have been desensitized to the socialism scare tactic after how much the GOP has used it against Obama.
Dai Kaiju
Member
I'm not sure what you're referring to (because I missed that part of the debate) but what you're saying doesn't really make sense. How is a black guy going to gain the support of racists? Barring trump, the "racists" like him more than the other white guys. And I think the Trump phenomenon has more to do with xenophobia (fear) rather than blatant racism (hate). That's the reason people say things like "one of the good ones" in the first place...although I doubt those people realize they're making total asses of themselves when they say shit like that.
nelsonroyale
Member
Fair enough, she is competant and qualified, I know that, but that doesn't in my mind qualify her for the position of head of state in the times we live in. I know there is the political game (geo political relationships, economic growth as main metric of long-term prosperity) and then real world issues (climate change, inequalities, unstable states ruled by tyrants); these are intrinsically intertwined but not necessarily the same thing. She is certainly qualified in the former, but I am wondering what she has to offer on the latter issues? She is a strong and canny 'pragmatic' politician, but a pretty poor visionary with an unambitious political agenda on these key issues. I can see why many might vote for her because of her perceived competance, but her track record for those of us who are fairly aware of the wider social and ecological context isn't necessarily impressive in the right areas.
I suppose my open question was ill-phrased...It should have been what does she offer people like me who care about climate change, inequalities and oppose aggressive foreign policy? Probably not much.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
"one of the good ones" is a common things amongst racists. It's happens when a racists starts to personally know someone of color who they are always bigoted against.
I remember someone telling me a story about their father being a wicked racist, but for some magical reason his neighbor who was black was a friend to the family. The reasoning the father used was, "he's not like the rest of them". As the kid grew up he figured out that it's not that he was any different, it's just that his father got to know him on a human level which obviously didn't correspond to the simple stereotypes that he would put on blacks.
Now that may not be exactly what's going on here, but it's not uncommon.
Carson said that the real racists are the people that point out racial problems. Racist love when a minority reaffirms their point of view, they see that minority as one of the ones that gets it.
Basically. But this is just the basic issue in terms of actual ideology. There is the deeper problem of money in politics that controls both parties that the lower information voter isn't really going to understand unless you explained it to them.
They don't know what "citizen's united" is, or the nuances of campaign finance reform or Glass steagal, or what speculative banking derivatives are. How a single payer healthcare system would make their lives much better than the current private system, or or the ins and outs of our trade deals overseas. Or where the money goes to make sure these things are not addressed or fixed. Even though the 2008 crash affected nearly everyone, there are a majority of people who don't understand even why it happened to begin with.
That underlying issue has to be fixed before anything else, or else a majority of the issues we seek real change on are not going to move very far if at all. Clinton by definition has a following of support from low information voters even though her stances on all these issues is pretty close to non existent just like the GOPs, and that's the issue we have to fix
I think Bernie really needs a strong message/slogan that can get through to the people that don't have time to listen.
"Feel the burn" is pretty bad. Compare to "make America great again" simple to the point, describes a real feeling that America is in decline and that we can fix it. See also obama's "yes we can" 3 simple words, with a lot of emotion behind them.
"Feel the burn" is pretty bad. Compare to "make America great again" simple to the point, describes a real feeling that America is in decline and that we can fix it. See also obama's "yes we can" 3 simple words, with a lot of emotion behind them.
That's a really good question. Trump is certainly the most liberal, but still a disgusting human being. Huckabee is a bigot, but has economic policies that would help many disadvantaged communities. Bush is probably the least harmful, but he wants to take away immigrants' right to bring over relatives to the United States. Cruz and Rubio are both pretty disgusting, the latter especially. Fiorina, Carson, and Kasich are largely irrelevant, but the latter isn't very conservative, from what I can gather.
Hm? She has one of the most detailed and aggressive climate change platforms of any announced candidate. It's pretty impressive.
On foreign policy, no, I'm afraid she's too hawkish, which is why I won't be voting for her in the primary.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yeeeeeep. The one question in the debate directly concerning racism was aimed at Carson, who stated that we need to stop talking about the things that divide us and focus on uniting people. Basically the same sort of "the democrats are the real racists!" bullshit we've heard before, but this time from a black guy.
"Ah", the Fox News viewer says, "he must be one of the good ones, I like him!"
I think the only other question regarding racism to any degree was aimed at Scott Walker, and it was more about police action than in general.
Edit: But seriously, when I heard on the radio this morning that Carson was polling second my jaw just about hit the floor. He said absolutely nothing of import during the debate, and had the most hackneyed closing statement I'd ever heard. How anyone could view his debate performance favorably is astounding to me.
Edit: Man, I hate assuming racism in people, it's a shitty attitude to have. It's just this unconscious behavior I see all the time, where they don't think they're racist but still stereotype based on rash generalizations and examples of bad people from certain minority groups. This strange combination of just world and "no true scotsman" fallacies. I work with old conservatives, I deal with this a lot.
Future Foundation
Member
Wasn't the race question one of the last things he got to respond to before the debate ended? I think that's pretty much why he's being remembered so fondly - the last thing he said was so well-received (and about such a hot-button topic) that it's making him look much better than he actually performed.
When's the next Republican debate?
Wednesday, Sept 16th!
Meus Renaissance
Member
It's a reflection of how low expectations are for him within the base. His entire goal that evening was to be noticed. He achieved that at the very end. How he'll improve for the next debate is anyones guess.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I recall it being about 1/2-3/4 of the way into the debate. It might be that it's what gained him some favorability, but what I hear from people is that they really liked his closing statement, i.e., "I'm a smart doctor, politicians are dumb, freedom isn't free. America." It hurts my head.
Wouldn't Biden eat away from Hillary though?
I would think so. Would make it more than a one horse race.
speculawyer
Member
Sanders surges on Clinton
Yeah, thanks for the visual.
Yeah, thanks for the visual.
Box of Kittens
Banned
There's plenty of time for him to recover, but so far my prediction that Walker would sink like a stone once the campaign really got under way is looking good. He looks really good on paper (to a conservative audience) but it's really mostly hype.
RustyNails
Member
How about "Sanders comes behind Hillary"?
Interfectum
Member
Biden wouldn't kill the Bernie hype. He'd just pull support away from Hillary.
speculawyer
Member
Well, you have to rank your evils first. Authoritarian anti-abortion evil? Union-busting evil? Environmental pollution evil? Immigrant hating evil? War Mongering evil?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Feel the Bern.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I never expected her, of perhaps all people to say such a thing. And on the Bill Maher show- A person who is on the left, but is just as vindictive and mean as the right wingers he goes after.
And that statement by Ann "Because he actually cares about the american people".
I thought she was a snake run by greed who would be happy to see the US turn into some anarchist state in fear mongering. Is it actually possible that someone like her, actually, honestly believe that her views is only for the good of America, no matter how misguided they may be?
RustyNails
Member
Hm. She does have wealth and fame and has been around for a long, long time. She also stole HP's soul and faith.Have some Sympathy for the Devil
(Fiorina is satan)
Interfectum
Member
I think Ann Coulter, like Rush Limbaugh, plays a role for money. She probably doesn't believe half the shit she spews and only does it to energize her fanbase to buy another one of her books.
Interestingly enough, there was an episode of The Boondocks about that.
And_Gignac
Member
She is a democrat at heart. She plays the crazy racist republican role for the money. But even she can hide her excitement for #TheBern.
PhoenixDark
Banned
People take Coulter seriously in 2015? Come on. She also thinks Trump can win the presidency.
If you think a socialist can win the presidency in the US in 2016 you're delusional. He'd be outspent and crushed by bullshit ads 24/7.
RustyNails
Member
What? All the hyper-conservative shitbags like Coulter, Savage and Limbaugh are salivating at the prospect of a Bernie win. Bernie will easily lose to an establishment GOPer in a Bob Dole like landslide. Coulter is poison. Dont believe her lies.
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