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[Gusto]

If you're against these labor practices, then vote with your wallets.







I'm picking up 2 at launch...

 

[kasane]

If this is people's argument against PS4, this is just sad. Tell me how many companies contracted foxconn for their manufacturing. Also sony has no control over how they operate.

 

[sikkinixx]

Pretty sure most everything feeds off the exploitation of someone's blood, sweat or country. Kinda sad ultimately but business don't care, and neither does anyone else.

 

[zero shift]

Yup. And unless the western world (or some other country somewhere else) decides to get in the game of really emphasizing this kind of engineering education, those contracts will stay in China with companies like Foxxcon.



http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-apple-builds-iphones-and-everything-else-in-china

This is why the argument of "Well they should get paid less or they have to work those insane hours" is horseshit.

People say that "third world countries need slave labor to build" and while that might be true the problem is that once that train gets rolling its very difficult to stop.

 

[Kwixotik]

Slaves don't get paid...

Hence the qualifier "essentially"

 

[Deku Tree]

Where do they make the Xbone? What about the Wii U? How about iPhone? Samsung Galaxy? Why don't we go Luddite?

 

[kqgaming]

SICK

Pure sickness

 

[bankster]

ITT westerners are shocked that the socialist government of China does something socialistic. Like providing labor for businesses politically connected to local government.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Somebody call Tim McGraw, we can make a song out of this.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

As long as the price is $399, I'm happy

 

[Bailers]

Hence the qualifier "essentially"

No, it is not even close to the same thing.

 

[HappehLemons]

Good thing I only care about myself or I would have a problem with this.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Thel truth is that those who are more fortunate prey and live off the backs of those less fortunate. That's how capitalism keeps us in a nice lifestyle instead of one where we have to be stuck in factories 16 hours of our lives developing super arthritis.

This is a truth we'll forget in the next 48 hours, just as blood cobalt was forgotten for PS2 development. It's the ultimate example of disparity and how unfair the world truly is when it comes to where you are born.

At least be honest that there is no point to defending this shit - it's disgusting. But also be honest in that we are ALL scum here (anyone who has owned a console) because we, by tomorrow night, will have forgotten about feeling bad or guilty or whatever with all this after having gone to work or the gym or a nice play of GTAV.

 

[LiK]

just leak more photos you rebellious youth.

 

[PodcastFips]

just leak more photos you rebellious youth.

Nobody wants to see all those boxes standing around uselessly. It would make me cry.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

This is like saying that I might as well just starve because Chick-fil-a hates on gays. Sometimes this stuff is really tough to avoid, but I try to be a reasonably informed consumer, and pick my battles where I can.

Foxcom makes parts and goods for many many companies. Taking a stand would mean you can't buy any appliances ever, There are a million other places to eat burgers at but one will not know whether the phone or the Tv you have has passed through Foxcom. There's hardly anyway to be informed anyway since it's not like electronics come with labels that list their manufacturing companies.

 

[flatearthpandas]

It's too bad this article was about the PS4 or else we would have had a PC thread that focused on real issu--PFFFFF! Gaf getting upset about real life injustice. There's a gas.

 

[SegaShack]

This sort of stuff... I have a hard time with it.

I try to live by a basic moral code which is to say, "Don't be shitty, and don't make the world a worse place," but where that responsibility begins and ends... I just don't know.

I'm big on environmental issues. To consider the amount of energy expended on electronics including production, transport, and use. To think of the mass of e-waste shipped to China and India every year that just sits and pollutes the water. To think of all the factories spewing noxious fumes into the air...

Human rights issues definitely get me. How many people were paid below a decent wage to make my phone, my TV, and my computer? How many people worked long hours in sub-par conditions to make sure I could get my hands on the latest gadget. How many piece of rare-earth metals from conflict zones can be found in next gen consoles?

I wish places like Foxconn didn't do shady things within the bounds of China's laissez faire legal system, because short of no longer buying electronics, hell, a lot more products than that, I don't know what I can do, or what I should do. The right thing in these situations... It escapes me. I love new technology. Maybe ignoring China's habitually bad worker's rights records makes me a bad person. I just can't carry it all in my head.

I know what you mean, with things like this I really can't make up my mind either. On one hand the workers have shit conditions, terrible wages, but on the other hand they choose to work there, and any electronics device is made there. I could choose to not buy electronics from there, but the infrastructure is already all set up for this, the US at this point does not have infrastructure for this. As a consumer I feel like I can spend my money on whatever I please, but I don't forget about crappy labor conditions either.

It's amazing to see politicians say how they want to end production in China but then do nothing but support it. A relative I know works for Dreamworks Animation and a year ago Joe Biden was visiting to help the CEO work out a deal to open a Chineese division of the company (which did end up opening). This same guy and the president had just spent a whole campaign saying how they need to bring more jobs to America. It is not as simple as blaming one entity, the responsibility is on the Chinese government, US government, and the consumer. The governments themselves have more power over this, but in a massive force consumers can change everything.

It's amazing to me though how Steve Jobs was filmed saying that Foxconn was not a sweatshop and how it was luxurious because it had gyms and pools.

 

[Rafterman]

Just be honest, do any of you actually care about this in the end? Or put it this way, if given the choice to pick, would you actually pick not to play PS4/Xboxone/gaming system if doing so can improve the working conditions of the people there?

Yeah right.

No they don't care, which is why any time this issue comes up the outrage posts are hilarious. If people really cared they wouldn't buy the damn things, regardless of how many products they would be missing out on. It's fucking lip service from people who want to feel better about themselves. The truth is, people only care about these things when it is guaranteed not to inconvenience them in any way, and even then they usually don't.

 

[ShinMaruku]

You want cheaper things with the stagnant buying power you have you get this system at work.

 

[Goby]

Ehh it's the way of the world.

 

[Legendary_Red]

Thel truth is that those who are more fortunate prey and live off the backs of those less fortunate. That's how capitalism keeps us in a nice lifestyle instead of one where we have to be stuck in factories 16 hours of our lives developing super arthritis.

This is a truth we'll forget in the next 48 hours, just as blood cobalt was forgotten for PS2 development. It's the ultimate example of disparity and how unfair the world truly is when it comes to where you are born.

At least be honest that there is no point to defending this shit - it's disgusting. But also be honest in that we are ALL scum here (anyone who has owned a console) because we, by tomorrow night, will have forgotten about feeling bad or guilty or whatever with all this after having gone to work or the gym or a nice play of GTAV.

You need to get off your high horse. If you have ever been to some of these developing nations and actually talked to these workers, then you would know many of them consider themselves incredibly lucky. They would be out on the streets starving or still in their villages being poor subsistence farmers without any access to education or other services for their children if they were not working in the factories. There are many more people out there than jobs available. Things will get better, every 1st world country has had to have gone through an industrial revolution in some point in their lives and they have always come out on top in the long run.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

It's amazing to me though how Steve Jobs was filmed saying that Foxconn was not a sweatshop and how it was luxurious because it had gyms and pools.

He got the "managed" tour of the complex.

 

[weevles]

Singling out Sony for something their supplier does is not going to stop said supplier from doing wrong. They contract work from just about every major electronics company all over the world. Stop being a consumer I guess? Put all those people out of work?

 

[slapnuts]

If this is really the case then I don't want anything to do with a PS4.

 

[Snubbers]

If this is people's argument against PS4, this is just sad. Tell me how many companies contracted foxconn for their manufacturing. Also sony has no control over how they operate.

I too think it's sad.. But you are implying ignorance is an excuse, it isn't.. Although I'd question wherever MS is getting the XB1 made too..

Sony should have their own independent QC/engineering guys permanently in the factory and should be vetting them closely for such things, I've worked for large multinationals that outsource to China for high volume electronics, and that is how most companies operate.

 

[Billen]

And all this ensures that western countries will never, ever have a busy work force again.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Do you see what the demand for the PS4 has done? I hope you're proud of yourself Gaf .... I really do.

Spoiler

Preordered!

 

[Alx]

No they don't care, which is why any time this issue comes up the outrage posts are hilarious. If people really cared they wouldn't buy the damn things, regardless of how many products they would be missing out on. It's fucking lip service from people who want to feel better about themselves. The truth is, people only care about these things when it is guaranteed not to inconvenience them in any way, and even then they usually don't.

That's true. Not sure it is "hilarious" though, one way or another, more sad. We're doing twitter campaigns against DRM because it bothers us, but a twitter campaign against labor abuse ? Nah... They're just Chinese people after all, who cares ?

 

[RVinP]

Sony should have their own independent QC/engineering guys permanently in the factory and should be vetting them closely for such things, I've worked for large multinationals that outsource to China for high volume electronics, and that is how most companies operate.

Its a prerequisite for any company to have QC and Engineering personnel to be in the outsourcing companies, especially when they are into mass production of physical goods.

Will be extremely surprising, if Sony doesn't have such personnel overseas.

 

[PanicFreak]

Thanks Hu Jintao!

 

[spwolf]

Foxcom makes parts and goods for many many companies. Taking a stand would mean you can't buy any appliances ever, There are a million other places to eat burgers at but one will not know whether the phone or the Tv you have has passed through Foxcom. There's hardly anyway to be informed anyway since it's not like electronics come with labels that list their manufacturing companies.

funny part is - Apple outsourced 5c to another factory because Foxconn is getting too expensive... and they are getting too expensive because they are paying their workers more than before and providing them with better conditions.

 

[mrklaw]

I wouldn't expect chip fabrication etc to be done in the west, so you're basically just needed to assemble the final components. I wonder if it would be that much more expensive. If you set up assembly factories in eg the US and Europe, you'd save on final shipment costs and potentially get some tax advantages for setting up locally.

I like the idea of a 'fairtrade' style label. there is a middle class willing to pay a little extra for fair trade foods or organic stuff. There may be enough of a market for fair trade electronics



Won't we eventually run out of third world countries to exploit?

 

[FeiRR]

...

 

[Hermii]

The true cost of that 399$ price tag.

 

[Dremark]

I guess that's why PS4 is so much cheaper than Xbone. And everyone wanted to blame Kinect.

 

[Bishop89]

they must feel blessed to be able to touch the ps4 before the rest of us peasants.

 

[kitch9]

Students complaining about work experience whilst condemning it as slave labour and the ugly side of capitalism instead of finding the positives of having a potentially glowing employer report on their resume?

I for one am completely shocked.

I feel I should maybe point out that having inexperienced students in a factory where quality is key and one fuck up could be repeated across a few thousand units before it is noticed and needs rework will be a complete pain in the ass for the guy who has to find them stuff to do on their work experience.

 

[2MF]

That's scummy from Foxconn and the university, but part of me can't help think it's a good thing that the future white collar employees of companies like that one will actually get a taste of what it's like to work in the lower rungs.

 

[Eusis]

I guess that's why PS4 is so much cheaper than Xbone. And everyone wanted to blame Kinect.

Take a look at Foxconn's list of costumers again.

EDIT: Aw fuck it just have an Xbox story.

 

[TAJ]

Slaves don't get paid...

Historically, there have been plenty of paid slaves.
Also, these students aren't being paid.

That's scummy from Foxconn and the university, but part of me can't help think it's a good thing that the future white collar employees of companies like that one will actually get a taste of what it's like to work in the lower rungs.

To me, this is more of a prelude to almost everyone being on the bottom rung.

 

[Alx]

That's scummy from Foxconn and the university, but part of me can't help think it's a good thing that the future white collar employees of companies like that one will actually get a taste of what it's like to work in the lower rungs.

You don't need such practice for that, though. I once worked for a western car manufacturer (PSA), where each new employee (whatever his position - management, R&D, marketing, ...) started by three months on the assembly line, and three months in a dealership.

 

[pachuco]

And...everybody is still gonna check their iPad while playing their PS4 and continue not giving a shit about any of those students who helped make them.

 

[Guerilla]

If you're against these labor practices, then vote with your wallets.

I'm picking up 2 at launch...

Voting with your wallet is an illusion and always had been. It's simply impossible to boycott foxconn or chinese products because everything is made there.

 

[FloatingDivider]

Unpaid internships previously known as legal slavery. And for the people acting like you should just purchase stuff that isn't made by foxconn or in china it's actually impossible at this point.

 

[Dremark]

Take a look at Foxconn's list of costumers again.

EDIT: Aw fuck it just have an Xbox story.

Sorry, I thought my post was outlandish enough it would be taken as a joke without me having to say that it was.

 

[BigDug13]

*spin* Sony demonstrates they are serious about making the most powerful console in the world that they are replacing standard factory assembly-line workers with Engineering students.

PS4. Designed by an Engineering Genius. Built by aspiring Engineering Geniuses.

 

[Eusis]

Sorry, I thought my post was outlandish enough it would be taken as a joke without me having to say that it was.

Poe's Law IS a bitch.

Though I think with fewer Xbox Ones likely being made they technically are the friendlier company for production anyway...

 

[WolfForager]

The sad thing is that this does not effect my decsion to buy a PS4 at all.

If i let myself base my purchasing decisions on the working conditions in the sites in which electronics are made, I probably wouldn't be buying anything.

Sadly it's the way the world works.

 

[BigDug13]

The sad thing is that this does not effect my decsion to buy a PS4 at all.

If i let myself base my purchasing decisions on the working conditions in the sites in which electronics are made, I probably wouldn't be buying anything.

Sadly it's the way the world works.

Yeah, honestly I'm already guilty of supporting this practice because I own other consoles, iStuff, TV's, laptop, etc.

It sucks and I feel bad when stories like this come up. I wish I had the willpower to forgo this tech materialism movement.