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Framing Snyder's Superman - Why people think he doesn't care

This doesn't have much to do with the thread topic per se, but I've criticized how Snyder not depicting Superman as vulnerable (except to kryptonite) is going to make any story beyond the scope of "What if god was one of us" problematic. And now I feel that's gonna come home to roost in JL. Superman was killed by kyptonite, his one established weakness, and all that did was make him take a long nap. What possible threat could anyone pose after that?

This is partially why I favour the concept where Superman isn't the strongest guy in the world, or even that absurdly OP as superheroes go. That yes, he's powerful, but that's not specifically why he's the world's greatest hero - it's the sheer distance he's willing to go to do the right thing. Part of why I love a series like My Hero Academia, because it captures that spirit wonderfully in the character of All Might.
 
They so fucked that part up. The worlds ( both in real life and in the comics) reaction to Superman's death was earned; a love affair with a character that had become a part of us over ( then) 60 years. There's no reason whatsoever why the world would react to Snyder's Superman with the same respect, affection and love like they lost a close family member.

The Death of Superman was the second film.

THE SECOND MOTHERFUCKING FILM IN A SERIES THAT'S SUPPOSED TO LAST YEARS IF NOT DECADES.

I still cannot fathom the logic behind that decision.


LOL.

I still don't know why the fuck they thought that "you don't need to help these people, you don't owe them anything" line from Martha was a good idea.

Emperor Palpatine vibes.

Remember these are the same people who thought making Pa Kent an objectivist was a good idea.
 
It's going to lead to "I gave my life for these people and they still hate me. Why do I continue to help them, mom?"

Martha: "Kill them all, Clark."

LOL.

I still don't know why the fuck they thought that "you don't need to help these people, you don't owe them anything" line from Martha was a good idea.

Emperor Palpatine vibes.
 
The Death of Superman was the second film.

THE SECOND MOTHERFUCKING FILM IN A SERIES THAT'S SUPPOSED TO LAST YEARS IF NOT DECADES.

I still cannot fathom the logic behind that decision.

What added to the impact too is that Doomsday just destroyed the Justice League, which not only raised the stakes, but ensured that only Superman could deal with the threat.

In this movie, Superman takes the Kryptonite spear to Doomsday and forces his death when Wonder Woman could easily have done it.

It's going to lead to "I gave my life for these people and they still hate me. Why do I continue to help them, mom?"

Martha: "Kill them all, Clark."

Lmao.
 

Cth

Member
GTTXsgA.jpg

This is fine.
 
The Death of Superman was the second film.

THE SECOND MOTHERFUCKING FILM IN A SERIES THAT'S SUPPOSED TO LAST YEARS IF NOT DECADES.

I still cannot fathom the logic behind that decision.

Basically Doomsday being used as a plot device to kickstart the Justice league to keep up with Marvel, and killing Supes in the process because that's what Doomsday was known for. The impact of his death is so completely lost in Snyder's universe, and the world's reaction to it so not in keeping with the story he's attempting to tell. Someone called it perfectly, dude's a hack. The entire DCU so far is a mismesh of stories being thrown into a pot just to keep pace with the MCU. It's all over the place.
 

Veelk

Banned
This is partially why I favour the concept where Superman isn't the strongest guy in the world, or even that absurdly OP as superheroes go. That yes, he's powerful, but that's not specifically why he's the world's greatest hero - it's the sheer distance he's willing to go to do the right thing. Part of why I love a series like My Hero Academia, because it captures that spirit wonderfully in the character of All Might.

Yeah. If I were writing DCEU, even the Government wouldn't get that antsy about it because they'd have Captain Atom working with them, who I would actually put above Superman in terms of raw power. So everyone would be happy. The army would have their war machine, like Marvel has thiers, and Superman could go unimpeded.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
"That scene always came off as bad for me because, well, what is he trying to say? Is he showing off? Is he angry and went too far? Either way it actually comes across more disturbed than heroic."

Clark gets told, as a kid, multiple times not to engage or use his powers.

-He saved the kids in the bus. His dad tells him it was wrong and he maybe should have let them die.
-Other Kids beat him up, he won't do anything about it as his dad always told him not to do so.
- His dad runs into the hurricane telling him to stay with his mother and , with this telling him to not use his powers, he dies doing so. While this scene gets made fun of a lot it is a traumatizing event for Clark.

So he then gets fucked with in that bar. He is frustrated that he still can't use his powers, angry and in a moment of weakness destroys this truck.

Imo, its clear as day why he did it and it makes perfect sense.
Only thing MoS did horribly wrong was everything after Zod's death. The movies tone took a mayor shift that was just... wrong.
 
What added to the impact too is that Doomsday just destroyed the Justice League, which not only raised the stakes, but ensured that only Superman could deal with the threat.

In this movie, Superman takes the Kryptonite spear to Doomsday and forces his death when Wonder Woman could easily have done it.



Lmao.

Yep, WW holding her own (And more or less having the upper hand) against Doomsday ruined any menace it was supposed to have.

Having it look like a roided out cave troll was just the icing on the cake.
 
They so fucked that part up. The worlds ( both in real life and in the comics) reaction to Superman's death was earned; a love affair with a character that had become a part of us over ( then) 60 years. There's no reason whatsoever why the world would react to Snyder's Superman with the same respect, affection and love like they lost a close family member.

Er, a big chunk of the world liked him before the Doomsday fight, and then he stops a nuclear bomb from exploding in between Gotham and Metropolis and dies stopping an evil monster let loose by the founder of Facebook. So I mean, it wasn't perfect, but I don't think its that big of an issue in that universe.
 

JayCB

Member
main-qimg-3effde8801f7a5f25b0937b385aebb63

Using the spear doesn't count either cos Superman is not selfless. He would have given the Spear to Wonder Woman who was holding Doomsday, and whilst yes I am sure her lasso was preventing the eyebeams as evidenced by Doomsday being incapable of firing them despite his eyes glowing. It would have been more logical to not leverage his superspeed and super strengh but instead give the spear to the exhausted Wonder and hope in her exhausted state she might not be curb stomped or burnt by the superfast, super strong thing that shoots lasers!

Why didn't he give Batman the spear and then go and help Wonder Woman hold Doomsday down, she was doing a good job of holding him on her own, so the two of them should of been able to provide an ample opening. Batman wasn't doing anything else, and given the kryptonite in the spear, he'd not need the super strength to pierce Doomsday. Even leads on to the idea of the three of them being a good team.
 
Using the spear doesn't count either cos Superman is not selfless. He would have given the Spear to Wonder Woman who was holding Doomsday, and whilst yes I am sure her lasso was preventing the eyebeams as evidenced by Doomsday being incapable of firing them despite his eyes glowing. It would have been more logical to not leverage his superspeed and super strengh but instead give the spear to the exhausted Wonder and hope in her exhausted state she might not be curb stomped or burnt by the superfast, super strong thing that shoots lasers!

And Superman wasn't exhausted from the fight + added effects of Kryptonite near him?
 
In this movie, Superman takes the Kryptonite spear to Doomsday and forces his death when Wonder Woman could easily have done it.



Lmao.

Exactly. Wonder-woman was holding her own and due to being a more skilled 'fighter' than Superman, logically should have been the one to spear Doomsday and get out of harms way before he can impale her. There's really no reason, based on the internal logic of the film in that moment, that Superman actually 'needed' to sacrifice himself. Perhaps that was Snyder's way of forcing the world to love him because of his finals actions, but it's really sloppy story-telling. Even while watching the film last year and after the fact, I turned to my buddy and said 'Wonder woman could have killed Doomsday without Superman doing a kamikaze'.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
And yet people wonder why this Superman isn't all gleeful. If Superman actually existed in our world, I guarantee you he wouldn't be anything like Reeve's.

So what? It's fiction, it can be whatever you want it to be. Also the DCEU doesn't resemble our world any more than the Reeve Superman's does. The behavior and portrayal of this Superman is a choice, and it's pretty clear most people don't think it's a good choice.
 

Bleepey

Member
Why didn't he give Batman the spear and then go and help Wonder Woman hold Doomsday down, she was doing a good job of holding him on her own, so the two of them should of been able to provide an ample opening. Batman wasn't doing anything else, and given the kryptonite in the spear, he'd not need the super strength to pierce Doomsday. Even leads on to the idea of the three of them being a good team.

Batman was quite far. He didn't wanna put Batman in harms way cos he's you know selfless.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Snyder's superman does not seem emotionally engaged in the world around him, with the single exception of Lois Lane basically (and his mother I guess)

That's not a bad place to start a character, but he should have gotten to the point of emotional engagement by the end of MoS at the latest. Instead we have two films where he basically seems to save people because he thinks its what he's supposed to do
 

ElNarez

Banned
So what? It's fiction, it can be whatever you want it to be. Also the DCEU doesn't resemble our world any more than the Reeve Superman's does. The behavior and portrayal of this Superman is a choice, and it's pretty clear most people don't think it's a good choice.

yeah but most people are fucking dipshits
 
Not sure why anyone is arguing "but Captain America does THIS". Cap and Supes are two different characters. They're both icons that inspire people, but Steve Rogers isn't the boy scout Clark is.

I mean he's superman. For example, I drop eggs on the ground and they break. Imnnot devastated but I'm pissed that I'm gonna be yelled at. It's my job to not drop eggs. But it happened. I'm perturbed but not sad. He is a foreign alien god. People are just eggs to him

This entire post betrays the fact that you don't understand Clark Kent.
 

blakep267

Member
Exactly. Wonder-woman was holding her own and due to being a more skilled 'fighter' than Superman, logically should have been the one to spear Doomsday and get out of harms way before he can impale her. There's really no reason, based on the internal logic of the film in that moment, that Superman actually 'needed' to sacrifice himself. Perhaps that was Snyder's way of forcing the world to love him because of his finals actions, but it's really sloppy story-telling. Even while watching the film last year and after the fact, I turned to my buddy and said 'Wonder woman could have killed Doomsday without Superman doing a kamikaze'.
Superman died because doomsday skewered him. Is there any reason why he wouldn't also stab Diana? Is she indestructible?
 

Lois_Lane

Member
Superman died because doomsday skewered him. Is there any reason why he wouldn't also stab Diana? Is she indestructible?

Yeah. She's the daughter of Zeus and has already accepted and known about her divinity since WW1. She could literally be cut in half and survive.

I mean the entire plot of Wonder Woman is that only a god can kill another god. Doomsday isn't a god so she'd be good.
 
Er, a big chunk of the world liked him before the Doomsday fight, and then he stops a nuclear bomb from exploding in between Gotham and Metropolis and dies stopping an evil monster let loose by the founder of Facebook. So I mean, it wasn't perfect, but I don't think its that big of an issue in that universe.

And a big chunk of the world didn't like him.The funeral at the end of BvS attempting to portray a world in mourning as we saw in 'funeral for a friend' wasn't even remotely close to earned.

Let's put it this way, if your first exposure to this character was MOS, how much would you really care if he died? Your feelings should mirror those of the people in the film, shame he died, nothing that the world would mourn over. And we know he's returning in Justice league, so his death in the context of this universe is a plot device to rally the other meta-humans into forming an alliance and nothing more. Hell, Batman spent the entire movie hating him and plotting his death and ends the film pining over his grave like he lost his best friend. No, it wasn't perfect, nor was it really good or competent how it all played out.
 
So what? It's fiction, it can be whatever you want it to be. Also the DCEU doesn't resemble our world any more than the Reeve Superman's does. The behavior and portrayal of this Superman is a choice, and it's pretty clear most people don't think it's a good choice.

It's been obvious from the start that MOS was built on the premise of Superman existing in the real world. I think the portrayal of this Superman is pretty accurate to what we would envision if it was real. Whether audiences want to see that in their Superman is up to them. I think it's obvious they don't. I'm not that big of fan of Superman to begin with so Snyder's portrayal doesn't really bother me.
 
Superman died because doomsday skewered him. Is there any reason why he wouldn't also stab Diana? Is she indestructible?

Superman flew to Doomsday, stabbed him, and hung around just long enough for Doomsday to react. I'm thinking Wonder Woman's skills as a fighter would have resulted in her stabbing in and getting the fuck out the way. The plot dictated that Superman sacrifice himself when we had 10 mins previously showing Wonder Woman being nimble enough to avoid Doomsday's attacks and get hits in.
 

Lois_Lane

Member
It's been obvious from the start that MOS was built on the premise of Superman existing in the real world. I think the portrayal of this Superman is pretty accurate to what we would envision if it was real. Whether audiences want to see that in their Superman is up to them. I think it's obvious they don't. I'm not that big of fan of Superman to begin with so Snyder's portrayal doesn't really bother me.

Why does a Superman in the real world necessarily have to be an ass? Why does he have to be cynical and cold to people? If he really hates using his powers then why not, I don't know, help people through civilian means? Not everyone born with power is a jerk.
 
Yeah. She's the daughter of Zeus and has already accepted and known about her divinity since WW1. She could literally be cut in half and survive.

I mean the entire plot of Wonder Woman is that only a god can kill another god. Doomsday isn't a god so she'd be good.

It was pretty obvious she was barely getting by in BvS. And what gives you the impression that she's indestructible to the degree of Superman. She was literally hurt by a bullet in her solo film. She's a demigod. Not a full God.
 

Lunar15

Member
Short story is Snyder is stuck in the philosophy of Watchmen and wants his Superman to be Dr. Manhattan.

God dammit you beat me to this so fast, It's the first thought I had when reading this and the last thought.

It's really clear that Snyder loves watchmen and the themes present in that book. And many of those themes are 100% worth exploring. The question of "are super heroes even a good thing for society" is endlessly fascinating and can be tackled in many different ways.

Problem is.... I'm not quite sure that's where you want to start when establishing not only Superman, but also an entire cinematic universe that has to be built on at least some premise that, yeah, superheroes need to be a good thing so we can keep having them around in these movies.
 

Bleepey

Member
And big chunk of the world didn't like him.The funeral at the end of BvS attempting to portray a world in mourning as we saw in 'funeral for a friend' wasn't even remotely close to earned.

Let's put it this way, if your first exposure to this character was MOS, how much would you really care if he died? Your feelings should mirror those of the people in the film, shame he died, nothing that the world would mourn over. And we know he's returning in Justice league, so his death in the context of this universe is a plot device to rally the other meta-humans into forming an alliance and nothing more. Hell, Batman spent the entire movie hating him and plotting his death and ends the film pining over his grave like he lost his best friend. No, it wasn't perfect, nor was it really good or competent how it all played out.

They hated him so much they made a monument for him. Sort of like how they made a museum for Cap in Avengers. Some people liked him because General Zod did that PSA where he promised to kill everyone on earth. But as BVS clearly shows, he's a figure of much debate. He has tonnes of good press from the Daily Planet, saving people from floods, people from rockets, etc. It wasn't till Lex put his thumb on the scale that public opinion goes from mostly positive to negative.
 

NeonZ

Member
It's been obvious from the start that MOS was built on the premise of Superman existing in the real world. I think the portrayal of this Superman is pretty accurate to what we would envision if it was real. Whether audiences want to see that in their Superman is up to them. I think it's obvious they don't. I'm not that big of fan of Superman to begin with so Snyder's portrayal doesn't really bother me.

This isn't the only possible take for a "Superman in the real world" though, or even a particularly good one. Read Superman: Secret Identity for a Superman that manages to stay much closer to the classic one personality-wise in spite of actively avoiding clear sightings and getting betrayed by one of the first people that he chose to rely upon.
 
The thing about Synder's Superman is I think it misses the crucial core that makes Supeeman who he is; his family's love and compassion. In the comics, Superman is just the identity of a Kanas boy who realized he has god-like powers, so he puts on the pajama outfit his mother made him and goes to help because the way he was raised tells him that's the right thing to do. Different adaptations handle that in different ways of course, but this movie's take on what seems to me as trying to humanize them damages Clark as a character.

While it's clear Clark was raised with love, it's seems that instead of being raised to see the good in humanity, he's raised to distrust it. The constant bullying and being told that sometimes it could be the right choice to let innocents die, to the point where he is told to stand by and let his father die, wouldn't make Clark become Superman. That would make him a man who would be completely secluded and keep only to themsleves. And while there could be potential narrative strength in Clark still choosing to help humanity through it all, that's lost as well and poorly communicated throughout. The scene in B.V.S. where he claims to be doing what his father always wanted makes no sense with all these points. No, that's what most verisons of his father wanted, but in this verison Pa Kent was a cynical man. He's doing the opposite of what his family wanted, and if I remember correctly, his motivations for why are never explored.

That's why I think this Superman comes off as unsympathetic to everything, at least to me. They took out the aspects that made Clark the "man" and in focusing in all the action, he seems more alien then ever.
 
And a big chunk of the world didn't like him.The funeral at the end of BvS attempting to portray a world in mourning as we saw in 'funeral for a friend' wasn't even remotely close to earned.

Let's put it this way, if your first exposure to this character was MOS, how much would you really care if he died? Your feelings should mirror those of the people in the film, shame he died, nothing that the world would mourn over. And we know he's returning in Justice league, so his death in the context of this universe is a plot device to rally the other meta-humans into forming an alliance and nothing more. Hell, Batman spent the entire movie hating him and plotting his death and ends the film pining over his grave like he lost his best friend. No, it wasn't perfect, nor was it really good or competent how it all played out.

My point was, if Trump literally sacrificed his life to save New York City and Boston from being nuked by Zuckerberg, he would absolutely get a bump in approval ratings. Superman wasn't nearly as divisive in that world's universe.
 

timberger

Member
Man of Steel and BvS basically didn't seem to understand a thing about why the character of Superman was who he was.

When the Senate blows up and everyone is encased by fire, Superman stands around looking sad:

GTTXsgA.jpg

Every time I see this shot I hear the Curb your Enthusiasm theme playing in my head.

I mean... why wouldn't he immediately be trying to put out the fire if nothing else?
 
Why does a Superman in the real world necessarily have to be an ass? Why does he have to be cynical and cold to people? If he really hates using his powers then why not, I don't know, help people through civilian means? Not everyone born with power is a jerk.

Look at the world around us and I dare you to tell me it's easy to not be cynical. Doesn't matter how much good you do. People are always going to be there to bring you down. You don't think that weighs heavily on someone's psyche. Superman literally saves the world and people still shit on him. And when was he ever a jerk in the films?
 

Bleepey

Member
Man of Steel and BvS basically didn't seem to understand a thing about why the character of Superman was who he was.



Every time I see this shot I hear the Curb your Enthusiasm theme playing in my head.

I mean... why wouldn't he immediately be trying to put out the fire if nothing else?

Everyone around him was dead? Shock? You know cos a bomb just went off
 
They hated him so much they made a monument for him. Sort of like how they made a museum for Cap in Avengers. Some people liked him because General Zod did that PSA where he promised to kill everyone on earth. But as BVS clearly shows, he's a figure of much debate. He has tonnes of good press from the Daily Planet, saving people from floods, people from rockets, etc. It wasn't till Lex put his thumb on the scale that public opinion goes from mostly positive to negative.

Just because Zack Synder thought it a good idea to put up a monument for him doesn't mean it made sense within the story he's trying to tell. A large portion of the public holds him accountable for the destruction of Metropolis in spite of any good he did along the way( including Batman). Any kind of public monument would have had the backing ( I would think) of the majority and the movies depict it as though opinion of Superman is pretty square down the middle.
 
This isn't the only possible take for a "Superman in the real world" though, or even a particularly good one. Read Superman: Secret Identity for a Superman that manages to stay much closer to the classic one personality-wise in spite of actively avoiding clear sightings and getting betrayed by one of the first people that he chose to rely upon.

I never said it was the only take. I just said it was a realistic one. Obviously a lot of people didn't like it, which is fine. I'm just saying I didn't mind it because I'm not that big a fan of the character anyway.
 
My point was, if Trump literally sacrificed his life to save New York City and Boston from being nuked by Zuckerberg, he would absolutely get a bump in approval ratings. Superman wasn't nearly as divisive in that world's universe.

I got your point. And my point is, in the context of this universe his death would be felt but not on the scale of what it was in the comics, which is what was more or less portrayed. I'm not saying he didn't earn some kind of acknowledgement, but nothing on the scale of 'funeral for a friend'. Frankly, if Superman had the 'majority' of public support then there's no reason for him to be portrayed as dour, distrusting of humans,or going through the motions. He's portrayed as being weighed down by the burden of duty. It's a different take on the character and if that's the story you want to tell, fine. But this is a Superman that hasn't really 'reduced' himself to our level. I mean, look at this:

fy9xx3epmhmzfcjen80x.jpg


If this isn't imagery intended to show that he's 'above' us, then what is? The Superman that we'd truly mourn is the one who says 'Don't thank me warden. We're all a part of the same team.' Not......that ^.
 

Lois_Lane

Member
Look at the world around us and I dare you to tell me it's easy to not be cynical. Doesn't matter how much good you do. People are always going to be there to bring you down. You don't think that weighs heavily on someone's psyche. Superman literally saves the world and people still shit on him. And when was he ever a jerk in the films?

It is easy to be cynical, I'm cynical, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way nor that showing someone being cynical is somehow more realistic than showing someone who has hope.

Also destroying that dude's truck, instead of just kicking him out the store, and making out with Lois in a triumphant flying swing amongst the destroyed rubble and dying citizens of Metropolis.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Which is even more problematic since the films act like that aspect is resolved by the end. MoS has him claiming to the general to just be a kid from Kansas, and BvS has the world accept him as a soldier (which...ugh, I am so uncomfortable with the glorification of militarism of that ending, but besides the point). So in the first movie, he asserts his place as one of them only to go back to being an outsider in the second, then the second concludes with the world accepting him.

But that you still then have the film basically saying "Yeah, he's an outsider" for 95% of it's run time other than the ending.

I think that's an issue of the faux realism of the film. it treats Superman and the world's reaction to him trying to be realistic but ultimately with a poor execution. I doubt under any context Superman in the real world would be treated as anything other than an outsider which is what the film tries to go for. His existence is simply that strange and reality altering. The issue is how it resolves that with the character itself who is not idealistic in the slightest. More of a guilt ridden wreck.
 

timberger

Member
Everyone around him was dead? Shock? You know cos a bomb just went off

"Eh, they're probably all dead already, may as well let it keep burning."

You're right, that does indeed sound like a classic Superman sentiment. Can just picture him writing "Do good onto others and let the motherfucker burn!" on the face of the moon with his heat vision.
 
It is easy to be cynical, I'm cynical, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way nor that showing someone being cynical is somehow more realistic than showing someone who has hope.

Also destroying that dude's truck, instead of just kicking him out the store, and making out with Lois in a triumphant flying swing amongst the destroyed rubble and dying citizens of Metropolis.

You're right, he doesn't have to be cynical, but I get why he is. Which is why I don't have a problem with it.

As for the truck incident, I don't see how it's any worse than what Reeve's did to the guy in the diner. At least Cavill's Superman didn't hurt the guy. I'm certainly not gonna sympathize with a guy committing sexual assault. The metropolis incident was certainly out of place, I'll admit. Not sure how that makes him a jerk though.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
"Eh, they're probably all dead already, may as well let it keep burning."

You're right, that does indeed sound like a classic Superman sentiment. Can just picture him writing "Do good onto others and let the motherfucker burn!" on the face of the moon with his heat vision.

I mean it's pretty obvious what the film was going for in that seen. it's not him chillaxing and goiing oh a bomb wenty off. It did so poorly but come on the point of the that scene is guilt. The reason why the bomb went off is because he didn't look at the guy in the wheel chair. That's because he didn't want to look at a guy who was indirectly damaged by his actions thus all those people died in the first place because of his own cowardice. So he spends that few seconds going "oh I fucked up again".

It's not heroic but it is obvious why he is the way he is.
 

Rymuth

Member
The trouble is that Snyder wants to tell the story of the man who wants to be treated normally, wants to fit in, but at the same time Snyder wants his hero to appear cool and above average, much better than normal, and yes even god-like. It's why you get that one hilariously over the top shot of Clark hovering above those he rescues, silently looking sad and detached while framed in sunlight. Snyder wants him to look like a god to the viewer, even as Clark angsts over that perception. It doesn't work, tonally, to have the director pushing for the exact same image that the protagonist himself seems to want to reject.

A much better way to convey that information would be to have Clark try to interact with people as equals, to try to relate and connect, and have that repeatedly shut down by people not wanting to see the man so much as the symbol. But to do that would make Clark have moments where he's just an awkward guy and not a brooding handsome objectivist symbol of the superior being, and it really feels like the only use Snyder sees in Superman as a character is in what he might metaphorically represent, and not the man at all. He just seems to think the mundane tasks of forming emotional connections -- or even attempting to -- are so petty and human that to show Clark engaging in them would be to belittle what might make him heroic.

Which kind of misses the point of Superman. It's why he can do all the bullet points and still feel off. Because the image and cape are being prioritized over the man underneath. Film is a visual medium and Snyder is an incredibly visual director, so the imagery he uses to frame Clark's actions are why he comes across as inconsistent.

They failed to translate the 'Blue Boyscout' aspect over. It's like he saves people begrudgingly, when really Superman saves people as though he were a boyscout helping an old lady across a road.

Snyder was clearly going for 'What if Superman existed in the real world' but makes the mistake of making a film about 'What if someone had Superman's powers in the real world'. He made a 'Superman' rather than making what Superman actually is, a superhumanly decent and good-natured person who just happens to also have superpowers.
Favorite posts of the day.

To expand on Alienous' post: Despite being an alien. Superman IS Clark Kent, a decent farm boy with small town values that his parents instilled on him.

Snyder's Supes had a father who was an idiot and a mother who urges him to be selfish and as a result, wound up an unlikeable character. If you dont get the Kents right, you can't make Superman work.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Snyder's Superman wishes he could be looked upon on the way Cap does.

MCU Cap is the hero, that heroes want to be.
So damn true
Favorite posts of the day.

To expand on Alienous' post: Despite being an alien. Superman IS Clark Kent, a decent farm boy with small town values that his parents instilled on him.

Snyder's Supes had a father who was an idiot and a mother who urges him to be selfish and as a result, wound up an unlikeable character. If you dont get the Kents right, you can't make Superman work.

Exactly how I feel about the Snyder superman. The Kents in the small ills tv show were so much better
 
Favorite posts of the day.

To expand on Alienous' post: Despite being an alien. Superman IS Clark Kent, a decent farm boy with small town values that his parents instilled on him.

Snyder's Supes had a father who was an idiot and a mother who urges him to be selfish and as a result, wound up an unlikeable character. If you dont get the Kents right, you can't make Superman work.

Yup, agree with all those posts and your's, as my own post goes into detail about. Messing up the Kents is like if somehow someone messed up Bruce's parents dying. It is the crux of Superman's origin.
 

AMUSIX

Member
I still don't understand why, when Superman starts a fight, he immediately brings it from open space into a populated area. The fight should NEVER have happened in Smallville, but Supes opens by putting it there. Metropolis is pretty much the same, with the fight potentially happening over the bay, but Superman's alphastrike makes sure Zod ends up in the middle of the financial district.

Also, the list of saves in the OP are as hilarious as that video that attempts to do the same thing.


As for the Kents thing, yes, absolutely agree with the criticism. Superman is supposed to get his power and abilities from his Kryptonian side, and his caring and humanity from the Kents. In Snyder's world, he's given both from Jor El, and nothing from the Kents. Snyder literally removes Supes' connection to humanity.
 
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