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Opinion Drama Clickbait From now on let's every game to the same standards than cyberpunk

GnomeChimpsky

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After 8 years of development, "they ran out of time" is certainly a take.
You can develop a game for 50 years and not finish it. It's up to managers to lock down features and set deadlines. It's not uncommon for entire game systems like AI to be completely rewritten very late in development. This is what I think happened here. They were in the process of reworking AI when management set a hard deadline, so they had to throw something together, perhaps with a goal to fix it post release.
 

hemo memo

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You can develop a game for 50 years and not finish it. It's up to managers to lock down features and set deadlines. It's not uncommon for entire game systems like AI to be completely rewritten very late in development. This is what I think happened here. They were in the process of reworking AI when management set a hard deadline, so they had to throw something together, perhaps with a goal to fix it post release.

You should know how complicated the thing you are working on. Why is it always the game industry with things always done last minute or even after the deadline with fixes? Either game development is the most complicated job in the world or the industry is horribly managed and I would go with the latter.
 

NullZ3r0

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The game is borderline unplayable from its largest potential audience (Xbox One/PS4). This isn't overblown. CDPR management made a money grab and it's costing them.
 
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mcjmetroid

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It deserves criticism.

I mean simply put a broken game is a broken game. There are no ifs and buts.
It may be fixed eventually but not good enough.

If EA released a game in this state there would be riots.

I'm glad you're enjoying the game and because of the game there will always be people who will shit on the game but the criticism is deserved and in my opinion shows CDPRs inexperience in dealing with a mainstream game.

They have an awful lot to learn.
 
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GnomeChimpsky

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You should know how complicated the thing you are working on. Why is it always the game industry with things always done last minute or even after the deadline with fixes? Either game development is the most complicated job in the world or the industry is horribly managed and I would go with the latter.
It was clearly mismanaged, yeah. Although as far as entertainment products go AAA games are probably the hardest thing to manage properly, especially when developing for 8 SKUs (arguably their biggest mistake).
 
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MadAnon

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Is CDPR paying you?
This is him in every Cyberpunk thread.



"Leave Cyberpunk alone!"
 
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harmny

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After 8 years of development, "they ran out of time" is certainly a take.

I have to believe they completely scrapped their progress somewhere along the line and started over.


as i explained before. the game didn't have 8 years of development. they started full development of the game in first in late 2015 and then in 2016 after blood and wine when the entire witcher 3 team finally moved to cyberpunk.

this is not ubisoft they don't have 20 studios worlwide. there is just one team in CDPR. they announced the game 8 years ago the same way todd howard announced TES VI in 2018 and development hasn't started at all and will not start until they ship Starfield
 

Phase

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as i explained before. the game didn't have 8 years of development. they started full development of the game in first in late 2015 and then in 2016 after blood and wine when the entire witcher 3 team finally moved to cyberpunk.

this is not ubisoft they don't have 20 studios worlwide. there is just one team in CDPR. they announced the game 8 years ago the same way todd howard announced TES VI in 2018 and development hasn't started at all and will not start until they ship Starfield
And by the looks of it they probably still scrapped it two years in and restarted.
 

PoundSand

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Dec 14, 2020
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Good thread, Op. Cyberpunk 2077 is such a fantastic game, it doesn't deserve all those complaints that basically boil down to "this is not what I have made up to expect inside my head!!1"

Witcher 3 was trash on console when it was released. And now people worship it.

Not true. Once Witcher 3 was announced for Switch, people realized that the game is actually super trash.
 
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Sweden85

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Jan 2, 2020
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Haha, that will never happen..If Sony or Microsoft released an equally empty game as Zelda BOTW their game wouldnt get more than 5-7/10.

There has never been a standard and probably never will, today every game has to be woke to get the best reviews, tomorrow it will be something else..
 

mikefrails

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Nov 11, 2015
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The real issue is people angled The Witcher 3 like it was some crown achievement in narrative and open world design, it was not. There was no reason to be that excited about Cyberpunk.

There is a subset of gamers who like playing half-working, janky PC games because they usually come with the promise of a cool world and mods. The general public however is not ready for this level of commitment in their games. Honestly, I wish we could go back to a time when some games didn't even hit consoles. Had this stayed on PC exclusively it would've been received by a far more understanding crowd, because that's really who this game is for.
 
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harmny

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And by the looks of it they probably still scrapped it two years in and restarted.

sure whatever makes you happy. let's say they started development 6 months ago and you can be even happier.

performance and bugs aside? what the fuck is cyberpunk for U? a movie? what do you have to say about the AI?

it's a narrative driven open world rpg/action adventure. narrative driven means quests. which not only you have plenty of content there they are fantastic.

when you say AI i guess you mean the random npcs on the street and i don't really care. i wish they had made something deeper for the people that thought this was GTA (maybe they will as a free dlc) but i loved the witcher and that game had even worse AI for random npcs. also no crime system and you couldn't even kill them so...
i never played these game for those things (HZD. AC. TW3. etc). this is basically tw3 with guns and i love that.
 
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Phase

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sure whatever makes you happy. let's say they started development 6 months ago and you can be even happier.



it's a narrative driven open world rpg/action adventure. narrative driven means quests. which not only you have plenty of content there they are fantastic.

when you say AI i guess you mean the random npcs on the street and i don't really care. i wish they had made something deeper for the people that thought this was GTA (maybe they will as a free dlc) but i loved the witcher and that game had even worse AI for random npcs. also no crime system and you couldn't even kill them so...
i never played these game for those things (HZD. AC. TW3. etc). this is basically tw3 with guns and i love that.
Here's what it looks like to me. The people in charge of the in-game ads, soundtrack, and the look of the game world (art design and graphics) hit it out of the park and had been working on those for a long time. My god the ads by themselves seem like the biggest focus. What I think was scrapped and completely reworked last minute were the mechanics, the skill trees, physics, AI, and the narrative. Because most of what makes a living functional believable world simply isn't there. The game looks beautiful, but it's only on the surface.
 

kiryani

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Imagine how badly GTA3 would have got hammered if there was also a PS1 version launched , that didn’t work.

This should have been a next gen game for next gen consoles. I doubt we will ever see a big release ever try and backwards compat again.
 
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May 8, 2019
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OP still acting like preproduction and planning stages don't count toward "development". I would say go work for a game studio or publisher so you can learn something, but it's really not worth it. My worst jobs were at game publishers lol
 
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harmny

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OP still acting like preproduction and planning stages don't count toward "development". I would say go work for a game studio or publisher so you can learn something, but it's really not worth it. My worst jobs were at game publishers lol

i work in the film industry. i know what preproduction an planning is.
that doesn't mean that having 4 years of a small team making prototypes writing and concepts is 4 years of production. and even then i'm willing to bet that not even that small team was working on cyberpunk when tw3 was close to release because they needed to crunch like hell so there is no way they had someone prototyping for their next game
if the true manpower. the entire development team is working on other game for half the time you say they had you can't say they had 8 years of development.
 

brian0057

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Jun 18, 2018
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You can develop a game for 50 years and not finish it. It's up to managers to lock down features and set deadlines. It's not uncommon for entire game systems like AI to be completely rewritten very late in development. This is what I think happened here. They were in the process of reworking AI when management set a hard deadline, so they had to throw something together, perhaps with a goal to fix it post release.
That sounds like the worst management in the history of making things (not just games) more than anything else.
 

GnomeChimpsky

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That sounds like the worst management in the history of making things (not just games) more than anything else.
It's not uncommon, but usually we're talking low budget games. This just happens to be a really high profile AAA example.
 
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mcjmetroid

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These posts are so weird...

Do you disagree with me?

I see Sim City there for one and yes disaster. I'm not saying EA hasn't released a disaster of a game but I'm seeing a lot of leniency with this game that shouldn't be there.

Games shouldn't be released unfinished.
End of story.
 
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mcjmetroid

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Paying me to what? Stop people from revising history?
What is your point though?

Are you thinking this through?

My post was basically saying. Games shouldn't be released unfinished and other publishers like EA would face a shitstorm if they did the same thing.

You pointed out that they indeed DID the same thing before.

Ok?.... And?
 
Aug 28, 2019
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What is your point though?

Are you thinking this through?

My post was basically saying. Games shouldn't be released unfinished and other publishers like EA would face a shitstorm if they did the same thing.

You pointed out that they indeed DID the same thing before.

Ok?.... And?

The problem just seems to be how you phrased your post. It sounded like you were implying this was at some new low for game launches or something. And I'm still not sure of your exact point... when you say a shitstorm are you implying CDPR isn't facing that? Has EA ever offered unconditional refunds for a game?
 
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mcjmetroid

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The problem just seems to be how you phrased your post. It sounded like you were implying this was at some new low for game launches or something.

Well ok I'll expand on this a little. I could have just as well slotted in Activision or Ubisoft in there instead of EA. Not a direct attack of EA.

My point is:
I think there is a little bit of leniency when it comes to this game.

Now, I do confidently believe that the problems will be fixed with Cyberpunk. Their reputation has shown that. Yes even the last gen versions. I think they'll find a way to get it to a stable framerate somehow.

BUT I don't think we should be in anyway celebrating a bad launch on any of the systems. It's not an acceptable look for gamers if we do.

I think they need to be held to the same standard as other developers.

Now you have pointed out that EA has released trash PC games in the past but to my knowledge they paid hard for it everytime ( well the developer did anyway) with the online hate. Now you might @ me again with examples of games that didn't and did well anyway but I'm not well up on my knowledge of that.

I don't want CD project to fail. I really want this game but it's actually very strange to be excited for a game that's already out. I'm just gonna wait longer.
 

SafeOrAlone

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It's too bad that it's been so hard to discuss the actual game design, content, etc of new releases this year. I'm not commenting on whether or not the blow-back has been justified, but between this and TLOU pt. 2, the conversations around game release have been downers. I miss popping into OT's and deep diving into user reviews, criticisms, and debates centered around game design. Of course, we still have those things, but it's harder to parse through the rest.

But hey at least we have a dedicated thread for PC specs, because the only thing worse is scrolling through ten pages of PC troubleshooting :p.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Well ok I'll expand on this a little. I could have just as well slotted in Activision or Ubisoft in there instead of EA. Not a direct attack of EA.

My point is:
I think there is a little bit of leniency when it comes to this game.

Now, I do confidently believe that the problems will be fixed with Cyberpunk. Their reputation has shown that. Yes even the last gen versions. I think they'll find a way to get it to a stable framerate somehow.

BUT I don't think we should be in anyway celebrating a bad launch on any of the systems. It's not an acceptable look for gamers if we do.

I think they need to be held to the same standard as other developers.

Now you have pointed out that EA has released trash PC games in the past but to my knowledge they paid hard for it everytime ( well the developer did anyway) with the online hate. Now you might @ me again with examples of games that didn't and did well anyway but I'm not well up on my knowledge of that.

I don't want CD project to fail. I really want this game but it's actually very strange to be excited for a game that's already out. I'm just gonna wait longer.

Like I said, it was just a misunderstanding, I wasn't quite following what you said. To me it feels like Cyberpunk is getting raked across the coals worse than the other publishers do partially because they're meant to be the good guys, maybe the problem is simply perception, though. Another thing is, to me, when you compare this to the other big fiascos like Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda, Battlefield V, Fallout 76 and so forth... they weren't just buggy messes, they were bad to mediocre as products as well. Like a fully patched, fully working version of any of those other games is still a mediocre game. Besides that, those games also had a certain level of anti-hype prior to release, there was more smoke indicating fire before they launched than here. Maybe that was the pedigree of the publishers, being known for shipping buggy, unfinished, mediocre games... and now CDPR will be added to the list, with say, Witcher 4 getting apprehension prior to release due to this launch. I guess we'll see.

It's very hard to discuss this game right now, though, I made a thread specifically for discussing the game while ignoring the two major issues, the bugs and last gen performance, that was the whole purpose of the thread was getting at things besides those, 80% of posts replying were still about glitches and last gen performance. I feel like we all get it, they can't be forgiven for the state of the launch especially on last gen consoles... but it's just the same argument over and over, can't we argue about other stuff revolving around this game? We don't need to agree on those things either but the way you're not allowed to look past the bugs/performance you'd think people were trying to discuss how strong the German economy was under Hitler.
 

kingpotato

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Imagine how badly GTA3 would have got hammered if there was also a PS1 version launched , that didn’t work.

I think the more accurate scenario would be to say:

"Imagine if GTA3 was released ONLY for ps1 and it didn't work."

There is no official ps5 / xbs version of this game *yet. Sony pulled the game from the ps5 store along with the other platforms. How long until MS follows suit?