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From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns

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CliffyB's Cock Holster
I don't understand the huge deal. They were trying to optimize the game so that it ran as smooth as possible. They had to cut some of the lighting effects to do so. It's a balance. I don't think they were trying to fool anyone. If the graphics had remained at the level seen during previews, there would have been other issues with the game that people would have been complaining about.

Exactly. The fx are all still there in the engine but are often turned off for performance reasons, and its not like ALL the footage shown pre-release looks notably better than the final build, so anyone arguing for an organized campaign of disinformation is just wasting their breath.

The fact that they got great reviews vindicates their choice to sacrifice visuals for playability, so of course they are pleased with their choices.
 

hohoXD123

Member
Wtf, that's a terrible response. It's one thing to be concerned about resource allocation and have to resort to downgrades in particular areas, it's another thing entirely to hide the extent of these downgrades from your consumers right up until release. Shameful business practise.
 

UnrealEck

Member
Guys, I know the downgrade is a bummer but would you rather play the game at like 20 FPS because GRAPHICS.. The downgrade was obviously needed to achieve a decent and stable performance for consoles.

We know this. This is obvious. This is why it makes their response even worse. We want to know why they had shown the game with PlayStation button prompts in an earlier demo showing graphics and frame rate clearly out of the PS3's reach for example.
We want to know what the PC version will look like and if they downgraded it too and if so, why?
 

Sakura

Member
Well, what would you expect them to do? Release a patch that improves the visuals, yet causes the game to run like shit? The earlier shots of the console versions were their target, and they didn't meet it, it happens. It's not like they went out of their way to make the game look worse just to spite gamers.
 

sublimit

Banned
So are the shitty,weightless,sliding feet animations part of this "balancing" too?And does that mean that Dark Souls was unballanced?Because it definitely looked (and animated) miles better than DS2.

Actually both Demon's and Dark looked much better than this.Even the art (character,creature,costume,weapon designs) in DS2 seems to have taken a nosedive in quality and originality when compared to the previous games.
 

elyetis

Member
Guys, I know the downgrade is a bummer but would you rather play the game at like 20 FPS because GRAPHICS.. The downgrade was obviously needed to achieve a decent and stable performance for consoles.
Then :
- Don't keep advertising the game with pre-downgrade media ( too late now )
- Don't downgrade the game on the support which can have the pre-downgrade graphics without performance problem ( we don't know, but it probably won't happen )
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Actually both Demon's and Dark looked much better than this.Even the art (character,creature,costume,weapon designs) in DS2 seems to have taken a nosedive in quality and originality when compared to the previous games.

tumblr_lmpfj6rjab1qclt3z.gif
 

LiK

Member
Guys, I know the downgrade is a bummer but would you rather play the game at like 20 FPS because GRAPHICS.. The downgrade was obviously needed to achieve a decent and stable performance for consoles.

It was worst from what I heard. Some parts were like slideshows.
 
Well, what would you expect them to do? Release a patch that improves the visuals, yet causes the game to run like shit? The earlier shots of the console versions were their target, and they didn't meet it, it happens. It's not like they went out of their way to make the game look worse just to spite gamers.

The conversation seems to be focused on Marketing and PR to be honest and transparent...

I immediately think of some of the steps other developers have take with their multiplatform titles

It doesn't sound like they pulled punches with the 360 version of Titanfall for example. Just straight up said what it would run like
 

biezel

Member
After playing 2 on ps3 for a while, I loaded up the original on PC and played at 60fps for awhile. It feels so much better. I really hope the PC version is better, double dipping for sure if it is.
 
aww cmon the game is amazing i am already on NG+ and the gameplay is simply awesome there are not many games like it :)

I purchased and enjoyed both Demons and Dark Souls. It's not that I expect the game to be bad. I just find it a detestable business practice. Even not getting the game day 1, it was still going to be one that I was going to pick up. This situation however is not exactly making me want to run out and get it.

For me, the performance isn't the issue. I of course want them to make the best game they can graphically. What is unacceptable to me is that they misled people. (By they, I mean Namco/Bandai/From. Not just From Software).
 
Then :
- Don't keep advertising the game with pre-downgrade media ( too late now )
- Don't downgrade the game on the support which can have the pre-downgrade graphics without performance problem ( we don't know, but it probably won't happen )
A million times this.

For the 12093421093201930129th time, this isn't about the fucking downgrade. It's about them advertising the game with the pre-downgrade builds weeks before release.
We get it, sacrifices need to be made and you couldn't hit that level of visuals, just don't bullshit us.
 
Guys, I know the downgrade is a bummer but would you rather play the game at like 20 FPS because GRAPHICS.. The downgrade was obviously needed to achieve a decent and stable performance for consoles.
That's not the point.

The point is that they released bull ... what's the equivalent word for 'bullshot' when talking about gameplay vids instead of screenshots?
 

Jack cw

Member
Has everyone forgotten about Blighttown already?

How is the framerate? I think I would actually prefer some graphical rough edges if the game didn't drop into the teens in certain areas.

360 version runs with steady 30-40 fps nearly most of the game. PS3 dips into single digit numbers in some areas and constantly performs far below 30 fps. I dont know what happened to the PS3 version, but it runs worse than DS1...
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
How is the framerate? I think I would actually prefer some graphical rough edges if the game didn't drop into the teens in certain areas.

Sub-30 fps most of the time on PS3 but no screen tearing.

Xbox has better fps but also screen tearing.

I already have like 40 hours played and I NEVER saw the game run at Blightown framerates
 

Eusis

Member
How is the framerate? I think I would actually prefer some graphical rough edges if the game didn't drop into the teens in certain areas.
Seems to average in the high 20s. Anymore and you'd probably get Dark Souls: Blighttown Edition.

... Well, it'd probably be more like the best looking N64 game or something. And anyways screw undermining performance for the sake of the shinies, DSII's already on thin ice being regularly under 30.
 

Gbraga

Member
And I just pre-ordered the PC version, so in a way I guess I deserve it, but wouldn't hurt to get confirmation about the PC version.
 

-NeoTB1-

Member
Terrible stock PR response. I can't say I'm really surprised, though. It's a bummer, but at least the gameplay is still fun.
 

Ashariel

Banned
"These old consoles are tapped out so we keep adding the shit we really want which degrades the experience, but the install base is huge and we want the most money possible, so FUCK YOU.

-FROM"

Yep. At least they admit it.
 

ced

Member
I fucking hate PR.

I don't even have an interest in this issue, I'm loving the game (I do agree with the criticisms) but damn PR stuff pisses me off.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
My thought is that just about every CrossGen/Mutilplatform game is usually marketed with the highest fidelity version at the forefront
True. I guess if they want to avoid any confusion, they could add a "this footage is from the (insert version here)", so people know which version that is being shown.

By the way, is that the case with Dark Souls 2? Did they specifically say that "this is how the PS3 and Xbox 360 version will look", or did they just simply show the PC version before the game was released? Sorry, i havnt been following the case that much.
 

JNT

Member
How is the framerate? I think I would actually prefer some graphical rough edges if the game didn't drop into the teens in certain areas.

It doesn't hit single digits as in DS1 (Blighttown), but it definitely drops to the teens at times. From what I've seen the 360 version might have a better framerate overall, but at the cost of screen tearing.
 

Sakura

Member
The conversation seems to be focused on Marketing and PR to be honest and transparent...

I immediately think of some of the steps other developers have take with their multiplatform titles

It doesn't sound like they pulled punches with the 360 version of Titanfall for example. Just straight up said what it would run like

Marketing and PR to be honest and transparent? It's a work in progress. Whenever I play a beta or alpha, or see preview videos, I usually see text saying "content does not represent final build", and many times that holds true, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. They were aiming for something, and unfortunately it had to be scaled back because of optimisation.
What do you expect they should have done, hold a press conference, apologise that the graphics had to be dialed back somewhat for the last gen consoles for performance issues, and then bow their heads in shame?
 
That is answer in the same way an apple is a type of rock. No details given about the state of the pc version. In fact, their response sounds like a confirmation that it got downgraded as well.
 

bigol

Member
M°°nblade;104977952 said:
That's not the point.

The point is that they released bull ... what's the equivalent word for 'bullshot' when talking about gameplay vids instead of screenshots?

the fun fact is promotional screenshots of the game were exactly as bad as ingame graphics

They were not always lying, the screenshots were a clear sign of the downgrade
 

Jarlaxle

Member
A million times this.

For the 12093421093201930129th time, this isn't about the fucking downgrade. It's about them advertising the game with the pre-downgrade builds weeks before release.
We get it, sacrifices need to be made and you couldn't hit that level of visuals, just don't bullshit us.

Aren't most games optimized at the end of their cycle? Is it possible that they just couldn't get it to perform the way they wanted to even weeks away from release?
 
Guys, I know the downgrade is a bummer but would you rather play the game at like 20 FPS because GRAPHICS.. The downgrade was obviously needed to achieve a decent and stable performance for consoles.

They didn't achieve it, especially not for PS3. It's either a bad framerate (PS3) or lots of tearing (360).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-dark-souls-2-face-off

VIDEO: Dark Souls 2: Xbox 360 vs. PS3 Frame-Rate Tests

For all the engine tweaks and compromises, Dark Souls 2's performance remains surprisingly uneven. Unlike previous games, both PS3 and 360 versions run with no frame-rate cap whatsoever. Stuttering ensues as a result when the game rises above the 30fps line, but each version still suffers from drops below this around the usual scenarios. When smashing up the physics-based scenery, faced with excessive alpha, or framing a long view of complex areas like Majula, the lowest recorded result on PS3 is 14fps (during a barrage of bomb explosions), while the 20fps mark is the lowest on 360 (while passing through a fogged doorway).

There's no doubt the 360 version gives the smoother experience overall though, with an average advantage of 10fps during gameplay and cut-scenes. As a result, controller input translates more fluidly to the on-screen action, but the catch is that the Microsoft release offers no v-sync to back this up. Copious amounts of tearing break up the integrity of the image wherever you go - and the brighter the area, the more noticeable this becomes. The PS3 version on the other hand gets away scot-free with no tearing, thanks to its utilisation of v-sync, though once again the stuttering frame-rates make this version difficult to recommend as a perfect alternative.
 

popyea

Member
Just be glad that the game hasn't lost anything of substance. I find it hard to believe that the people who loved the first two games to death are really this concerned over a missing visual gimmick that didn't even exist in the originals.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Exactly. The fx are all still there in the engine but are often turned off for performance reasons, and its not like ALL the footage shown pre-release looks notably better than the final build, so anyone arguing for an organized campaign of disinformation is just wasting their breath.

The fact that they got great reviews vindicates their choice to sacrifice visuals for playability, so of course they are pleased with their choices.
Thank you. The idea that they are "getting away with shady business practices" is just preposterous. People need to grow up and stop acting like the victim the whole time. A genuinely great sequel from a genuinely humble developer that is received well and people are up in arms at any little "controversy" they can get their hands on.

I'm more offended that they made us wait this long for this response. Seriously?

No, seriously?
Yes, seriously. They "made us" wait a week after release for a response to a badly aimed question that didn't need answering.
 

kionedrik

Member
What will happen if the PC version does look like what they originally showed? Will this subject die or will the PS360 users feel even more robbed or scammed?

Ultimately, I think the lesson is that FROM sucks at porting games. First one was made for consoles and the PC port sucked, this one seems the opposite (hopefully).
 

test_account

XP-39C²
"These old consoles are tapped out so we keep adding the shit we really want which degrades the experience, but the install base is huge and we want the most money possible, so FUCK YOU.

-FROM"

Yep. At least they admit it.
What do you mean with "we keep adding the shit we want which really degrades the experience"? What is being added that takes a way from the experience?
 
Marketing and PR to be honest and transparent? It's a work in progress. Whenever I play a beta or alpha, or see preview videos, I usually see text saying "content does not represent final build", and many times that holds true, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. They were aiming for something, and unfortunately it had to be scaled back because of optimisation.
What do you expect they should have done, hold a press conference, apologise that the graphics had to be dialed back somewhat for the last gen consoles for performance issues, and then bow their heads in shame?

Hey man I am in your camp on this one

I personally think this is a bit overblown but hey. Getting these marketing guys to be transparent is definitely going to be a process.

Honestly they would have been better off going the Titanfall route and only showing off the Next Gen versions in marketing scenarios.
 

KJRS_1993

Member
I think people need to drop this and just move on with their lives. It doesn't look as good originally planned, this happens constantly in game development.
Stop shitting your pants about it and move on. It happens. Their's more important stuff going on in your lives to lose sleep over than crap like the graphics in Dark Souls II.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Surprised at all the people who say they aren't going to get this now, or will wait.

Goes to show that graphics truly are what's most important to a lot of people.

I'm not trying to defend what FROM has done either. It sucks, I'm not happy about it, but its still fucking Dark Souls 2. No way I'm gonna wait around. Durante wont be able to do shit about a different lighting system and replaced textures and assets and whatnot.
 

T.O.P

Banned
I'm loving every second of DkS2, probably even more than DkS, but i'm ready to cancel my pc pre-order if the final version won't have similar graphics to the original reveal
 
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