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[Anteater]

Unless they're planning a XBONE/PS4 versions later on and they can bring the high res textures and the improved lighting from the PC version to those platforms.

Yeah, that would be reasonable.

I'm just skeptical because with most cross gen games you don't see big publishers adding those huge upgrades on the next gen version, and FROM is a relatively smaller studio.

 

[NullPointer]

Unless they're planning a XBONE/PS4 versions later on and they can bring the high res textures and the improved lighting from the PC version to those platforms.

I figured that was a given. It'd be easier to port once they have that PC version.

 

[Grief.exe]

I followed a really detailed video which had me delete everything before reinstalling and adding dsfix. I then tweaked all of the settings as instructed. I even went back and lowered some of the dof and framerate options in case that was the issue. I stille get executable errors.

What did you delete exactly? Did the game run prior to installing DSFix?

DSFix is hardly difficult, there is a readme file included with the download.

1) Delete previous version of the mod if you have any
2) Place the contents of the .zip into the game's binary directory. (The place where DARKSOULS.exe is)
(this may be something like C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Dark Souls Prepare to Die Edition\DATA)
3) Adjust the settings in DSfix.ini as desired
4) Adjust the keybindings in DSfixKeys.ini as desired
IMPORTANT: turn OFF the in-game AA option, otherwise you *will* get graphical issues
See DSfixKeys.ini for a list of keybindable actions, including screenshots.

 

[Orayn]

If only all the armchairs knew what it was actually like to make a game.

1. Someone can understand and still be disappointed.
2. The issue isn't the downgrade so much as the fact that people were blindsided by it. This wouldn't be as big of a deal if From Software and Bamco had admitted that things needed to be scaled back on consoles, and showed the changes further in advance.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

If only all the armchairs knew what it was actually like to make a game.

I'm sure it shouldn't involve advertising tbe game a month before release with better lighting and textures than was planned for retail. And surely shouldn't be shown on the back of the case...

 

[Grief.exe]

Can we compare some of these screenshots up on the Steam page to the console version?

I know this one has the exact same textures/geometry as the console version, but the lighting is different.

What about some of these ones?

 

[vasametropolis]

Fortunately I bought the PC version not caring what it would look like, but yes this is fucked. If they do another I'll be wary of their dishonesty.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

What did you delete exactly? Did the game run prior to installing DSFix?

DSFix is hardly difficult, there is a readme file included with the download.

Yes, it ran but I didn't play much because it wasn't worth a playthrough without dsfix after I've already beaten it on PS3. But once I figured out how to run dsfix (I deleted everything involving the game data... I'd link the video I followed but I'm on a vita), I figured I'd give it another go.

 

[Paracelsus]

Did they confirm at least if it's tailored around sixty frames per second on PC? Tearing in the first DaS on PC is nearly illegal.

 

[impact]

Wouldn't it be correct in assuming the PC is next-gen equivalent though?

Apparently not for 2K! NBA 2k14 on PS4 obliterates the PC version.

 

[Gbraga]

Did they confirm at least if it's tailored around sixty frames per second on PC? Tearing in the first DaS on PC is nearly illegal.

You should use Borderless Window mode, it'll remove the tearing without the awful input lag that you get by forcing vsync using nvidia control panel.

And they did confirm that, yes. There are even 60fps trailers out there, like the TGS one.

 

[Grief.exe]

Yes, it ran but I didn't play much because it wasn't worth a playthrough without dsfix after I've already beaten it on PS3. But once I figured out how to run dsfix (I deleted everything involving the game data... I'd link the video I followed but I'm on a vita), I figured I'd give it another go.

Why did you delete anything?

Delete the ds-fix files, right click the game in Steam > verify cache, Steam will redownload what you deleted, run the game, close the game reinstall ds fix.

Did they confirm at least if it's tailored around sixty frames per second on PC? Tearing in the first DaS on PC is nearly illegal.

Yes, 60 FPS is confirmed.

Apparently not for 2K! NBA 2k14 on PS4 obliterates the PC version.

Based on the previous-gen version for some strange reason.

 

[RexNovis]

"The final version of Dark Souls II displays the culmination of this delicate balance and we’re very proud of the positive media and fan reception for the game.”

So they're happy with a product that has bugs and problems like:

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
• Holes in geometry.
• Enemies not reacting to the proximity of the player.

This is happening to a lot of disc based PS3 users. Why did they ship that crap in the first place? If they were aware of this they should have sticked to digital only.

I encountered almost none of these problems on digital version.

yea I can back this up. I have the digital PS3 version and I have only personally experienced a little lag in the ui. None of the others are happening for me and I am loving the game so far.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Why did you delete anything?

Delete the ds-fix files, right click the game in Steam > verify cache, Steam will redownload what you deleted, run the game, close the game reinstall ds fix.

Deleted everything for a clean start (I was following a video). Reinstalled the game, changed the AA setting, downloaded and installed dsfix, tweaked the settings, game no longer runs.

edit: I "verified the inegrity of game cache" and "1 files failed to validate and will be reacquired". Upon closing and booting up the game, I still get the "exexutable stopped working" message.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

yea I can back this up. I have the digital PS3 version and I have only personally experienced a little lag in the ui. None of the others are happening for me and I am loving the game so far.

It's interesting that the digital version is so much better. my disc version runs like a fucking dog at all times. I've experienced every problem listed in that post you quoted.

Did DF mention which version they tested, by any chance?

 

[E92 M3]

Man, forget graphics, I wish the game felt as good as the first one. Just something seems so off.

 

[Persona7]

Man, forget graphics, I wish the game felt as good as the first one. Just something seems so off.

It's by far my favorite game in the series. I can't wait for the PC version.

 

[RexNovis]

It's interesting that the digital version is so much better. my disc version runs like a fucking dog at all times. I've experienced every problem listed in that post you quoted.

That is really bizarre. It doesn't make any sense honestly. Unless the bandwidth limitation on the BluRay read speeds are some sort of massive bottleneck for the engine. I suppose that is a possibility. But yeah, like I said the ONLY issue i have had is some minor slow down in the game menu ui and that has been few and far between. I was pretty surprised reading that people are having those sorts of issues as its not been my experience at all.

Did DF mention which version they tested, by any chance?

Most likely the digital version. Review copies are usually distributed digitally these days.

 

[RangerBAD]

Man, forget graphics, I wish the game felt as good as the first one. Just something seems so off.

Textures and lighting aside, I have to say this is up there with the other Souls games. They took things from DeS and DaS and married them pretty well.

My biggest problem is the loading time. It's so frustrating to die and sit on that screen for that long. It's excruciating. This is like DeS load times and it's fucking 2014.

 

[Sanctuary]

Visually, it doesn't even look as good as Dark Souls 1 imo.

It's definitely nowhere near as consistent or cohesive either.

Man, forget graphics, I wish the game felt as good as the first one. Just something seems so off.

The combat mechanics are comparatively shit. Hitboxes are way off, and enemies track you (after a dodge) during mid-swing. There's also some extremely noticeable delay after any action when there wasn't in either of the previous two games. Just drank a flask? Okay, not sit there for another two or three seconds after you're done, before you're allowed to raise your shield or attempt to dodge.

Oh, but wait, you can dump 40+ points into either Attunement or Adapation and still be at half of the speed as from the previous two games. It feels like input lag, but it's not. It's intentional.

My biggest problem is the loading time. It's so frustrating to die and sit on that screen for that long. It's excruciating. This is like DeS load times and it's fucking 2014.

Even in 2014 it's still on the same hardware that Demon's was on in 2009. Although I don't know what happened to the loading times though from Dark Souls. They seemed quite a bit faster in comparison.

 

[UnrealEck]

My biggest problem is the loading time. It's so frustrating to die and sit on that screen for that long. It's excruciating. This is like DeS load times and it's fucking 2014.

I put on Dark Souls on Steam just to see what the loading times were like after enduring DS2's on PS3 and it just made me want the game on Steam even more. It loads in 1-2 seconds (not an SSD either) compared to up to around 30 at times on PS3.

 

[Grinchy]

I am positive that someone from Bamco's PR department wrote that, sent it to From, they said "sure you can release that statement" and then it was put out.

 

[UnrealEck]

I promise you that any individual who has the devotion to make it into a games industry which is incredibly over-saturated with talent and land a job at a highly praised studio like FROM is not lazy.

Some of the areas definitely struck me as lazy. Perhaps lazy isn't a fair word, perhaps time constrained is a better use of words.
Some rooms are literally just a box. I'm not kidding. A square box with the same texture on the ceiling and walls and one door to go in and back out. It's like the first map you make when learning how to make maps for games. The square box room with a light.

 

[E92 M3]

It's by far my favorite game in the series. I can't wait for the PC version.

Textures and lighting aside, I have to say this is up there with the other Souls games. They took things from DeS and DaS and married them pretty well.

My biggest problem is the loading time. It's so frustrating to die and sit on that screen for that long. It's excruciating. This is like DeS load times and it's fucking 2014.

Yes, loading times are a thing - but really don't bother me in the grand scheme of things. I feel as though I don't have full control in the combat. Everything is clunky, the enemies are to aggressive and the controls feel laggy. Also, weapon impact doesn't seem as "strong". Maybe I need to play some more, but I wanted to feel that magic from the first Dark Souls so badly and so far haven't felt it .

It's definitely nowhere near as consistent or cohesive either.



The combat mechanics are comparatively shit. Hitboxes are way off, and enemies track you (after a dodge) during mid-swing. There's also some extremely noticeable delay after any action when there wasn't in either of the previous two games. Just drank a flask? Okay, not sit there for another two or three seconds after you're done, before you're allowed to raise your shield or attempt to dodge.

Oh, but wait, you can dump 40+ points into either Attunement or Adapation and still be at half of the speed as from the previous two games. It feels like input lag, but it's not. It's intentional.



Even in 2014 it's still on the same hardware that Demon's was on in 2009. Although I don't know what happened to the loading times though from Dark Souls. They seemed quite a bit faster in comparison.

Exactly on point.

I still wonder how different it would have been if Miyazaki was involved fully. Reading the interview from the art book, he was a very passionate man with a vision for the game. He knew what he wanted and tried to make as few sacrifices as possible. While Dark Souls 2 is undeniably a good game by all accounts, is it in the same "magical" (hate using that word, but the only way I know how to describe the feeling of playing Dark Souls) ways of the first one? I'm not sure yet.

Back when DaS came out, and I played the first area, the feelings were there. The game felt great. In this one, I wanted to take a break after getting to Majula.

 

[encephalon]

It seems more likely a complete failure to maintain a balance, forcing them to make hasty, significant changes to the game, because they weren't willing to take the time or weren't given the time to make the serious overhaul the game apparently needed. Moreover, it also seems to communicate that they were oblivious to the fact that the retail ver. they started working on would for whatever reason not be possible.

Or maybe something else going on here. There's also the matter of the gamma being raised which some have commented on. And the gameplay emphasis taken away from torches. Could this also be a result of FROM changing or being forced to change their vision late into development?

 

[Grief.exe]

Deleted everything for a clean start (I was following a video). Reinstalled the game, changed the AA setting, downloaded and installed dsfix, tweaked the settings, game no longer runs.

edit: I "verified the inegrity of game cache" and "1 files failed to validate and will be reacquired". Upon closing and booting up the game, I still get the "exexutable stopped working" message.

Reinstall the windows live client from the microsoft store

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/pc/downloadclient

 

[HeelPower]

The combat mechanics are comparatively shit. Hitboxes are way off, and enemies track you (after a dodge) during mid-swing. There's also some extremely noticeable delay after any action when there wasn't in either of the previous two games. Just drank a flask? Okay, not sit there for another two or three seconds after you're done, before you're allowed to raise your shield or attempt to dodge.

Oh, but wait, you can dump 40+ points into either Attunement or Adapation and still be at half of the speed as from the previous two games. It feels like input lag, but it's not. It's intentional.

Seriously any command you execute feels like doing a heavy greatsword attack from Dark Souls 1.

Combat is worse unfortunately.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Honestly I don't want to give From a pass here, because I loathe false advertising. My only comment is that I hope this makes people more wary about preorders, because often the flaws in a game are effectively obfuscated until it's too late to cancel and people feel screwed. I'm waiting until I see the PC version running before I decide to buy at full or discounted prices, and I'd urge others to do the same.

What did you delete exactly? Did the game run prior to installing DSFix?

DSFix is hardly difficult, there is a readme file included with the download.

Anecdotally, I've found that I get unreliable starts running DSFix on some systems if I leave Steam Overlay running. Could be that, too.

 

[E92 M3]

Seriously any command you execute feels like doing a heavy greatsword attack from Dark Souls 1.

Combat is worse unfortunately.

And that is one of the most important aspects of the series.

 

[plumpblumpkin]

Has official screenshots from the PC version been released yet? or only a trailer?

 

[Varna]

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

That's far worse then any other issue... what the hell was the point of the engine switch if you can't even get the combat right. That was the highlight of the series.


EDIT: And the game just ends up looking the same in the end.

 

[Servbot24]

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

That's far worse then any other issue... what the hell was the point of the engine switch if you can't even get the combat right. That was the highlight of the series.


EDIT: And the game just ends up looking the same in the end.

Combat is more or less exactly the same as DS1. Some people enjoy trying to make drama out of nothing.

 

[Persona7]

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

That's far worse then any other issue... what the hell was the point of the engine switch if you can't even get the combat right. That was the highlight of the series.


EDIT: And the game just ends up looking the same in the end.

I was replaying Dark Souls when I got my copy of Dark Souls 2, I did not notice anything out of place when switching games and it was a extremely smooth transition.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Seriously any command you execute feels like doing a heavy greatsword attack from Dark Souls 1.

Combat is worse unfortunately.

More horseshit. WTF is this? There's a very great difference between using the falchion, the uchi, the longsword, the claymore, the halberd, the spears, the murakumo, the ultra greatswords... hell, even bows have a weightier feel now. Combat is as solid as it's ever been.

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

I don't want to say "no, they're not serious", but I'm seriously tempted to. I have 70 hours of the game using a dex build and have zero idea what the fuck they're on about.

 

[HeelPower]

And that is one of the most important aspects of the series.

Combat is dwarfed by that of the first but its still great in its own right.

 

[v4skunk84]

I played every souls game. DS2 is fine. Runs and looks better than DS(ps3).

 

[Wereroku]

It's interesting that the digital version is so much better. my disc version runs like a fucking dog at all times. I've experienced every problem listed in that post you quoted.

Did DF mention which version they tested, by any chance?

I need to get a yellow light ps3 to test but I think in my case at least the texture streaming stuff is a sign of a dying bluray drive. I have noticed my load times have increased on a couple of my games and my drive sounds worse.

 

[HeelPower]

More horseshit. WTF is this? There's a very great difference between using the falchion, the uchi, the longsword, the claymore, the halberd, the spears, the murakumo, the ultra greatswords... hell, even bows have a weightier feel now. Combat is as solid as it's ever been.

No the combat feels a lot more delayed and every action you execute takes a lot more to recover.

Never said all weapons feel the same.

 

[bob_arctor]

The combat in DS2 is perfectly fine. 22 hours on a Strength build, wielding my Guts sword like a pro. I don't see any drop off compared to Dark Souls. The backstab animation is somewhat trickier to trigger (and I miss the savagery of the old one) but that's about it. I prefer the roll in DS2 as well.

 

[Nothing1016]

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

I've been playing for 60+ hours and find the combat to be fine. If I die, it's either my lack of patience or understanding the patterns of my enemies especially large bosses.

 

[soldat7]

Combat is more or less exactly the same as DS1. Some people enjoy trying to make drama out of nothing.

Yeah, the combat is A+.

 

[Sullichin]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[B-Genius]

This is why I cannot get fully behind this "movement". The mere idea that we are trying to equal situations like Aliens:Colonial marines to DS2 is -way- out of proportion and merit.

Should the PR people held accountable for any real misleadings? Sure! But:

a) That would be Namco, not From Software. And a lot of people seems to be happy to mix both in the blender. If we are talking about justice and doing the 'right thing', then do not do this. It's lazy, and .. misleading.

b) From is not, and has never been a AAA company focused on graphics. Sure, if DS2 becomes a resounding sucess (sells wise), I will be the first to ask them to step up their game for future titles. But asking them to provide a fully polished product is actually ridiculous. They are not a big company, technical wise, graphics have never been their forte, and as far as I can heard, there does not seem to be too many "show stopper" bugs, or blighttown situations. That's acceptable for those kind of companies. Like GSC (Stalker series), you take the quirks and lows because the rest of their games are quite good and innovative.

c) If I'm understanding correctly, what people are actually asking, is to make sure the PR add the legend "work in progress/target render, not accurate reflection of the final product" to any early promotional material. If that's right, then just say that.

It's will make the whole situation clearer and enhance the possibility of actually getting a desired result.

I didn't see anyone quote or respond to this post, but I feel it needs to be put out there again.

If you are seriously upset about this issue and feel that making some noise is the best way forward, please get your facts straight, frame your argument accordingly and make your claim with integrity.

 

[Totobeni]

Has official screenshots from the PC version been released yet? or only a trailer?

There are some screens on Steam.

Honestly I don't want to give From a pass here, because I loathe false advertising. My only comment is that I hope this makes people more wary about preorders, because often the flaws in a game are effectively obfuscated until it's too late to cancel and people feel screwed. I'm waiting until I see the PC version running before I decide to buy at full or discounted prices, and I'd urge others to do the same.

Problem is that many people just fully trust some developers, remember the last screenshots thread when there are awful looking shots? many people while saying " the game will look fantastic, that just From dude don't know how to take screenshots" (I'm not kidding, go to the one of the last month DS2 screenshot threads).

Also this is not the faults of the gamers who usually pro order because if we here in GAF got fooled till the leak then what about normal people? I can't blame a normal gamers who will trust VG sites which were flooded with screenshots of the early version and videos just weeks from release. even if someone don't pre order he will get fooled day when when he go and pick the game because sites while showing the footages of non-downgraded version that From gave them.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is why I cannot get fully behind this "movement". The mere idea that we are trying to equal situations like Aliens:Colonial marines to DS2 is -way- out of proportion and merit.

Should the PR people held accountable for any real misleadings? Sure! But:

a) That would be Namco, not From Software. And a lot of people seems to be happy to mix both in the blender. If we are talking about justice and doing the 'right thing', then do not do this. It's lazy, and .. misleading.

That depends on what people are irked about. Some are irked by the fact that there once existed a much better looking version that doesn't at all exist in a retail space. That's on From. Some dislike the fact that marketing materials displayed obviously outdated and "incidentally" a much better looking game up until release. They used those marketing shots in the back of the box and are still on the Steam store page. That's straight up deceitful marketing, and that's on Namco. Some are also pissed that From went "mysteriously" silent from "LIGHTING! NEXT GEN! GRAPHIX!" on release and now they're completely mute, with only a brief and kind of dismissive response given only today. That depends on who made that call, either Namco for marketing or From to cover their asses.

Are some people interchanging the two? Sure. It's not Namco's direct fault that the game couldn't handle the lighting engine and had to be downgraded. And it's probably not From's fault that the release marketing materials has outdated and clearly better looking screenshots than the actual game, but the fact of the matter is that both are fucking up this release in their own way. Neither really gets to wash their hands clean at this point.

b) From is not, and has never been a AAA company focused on graphics. Sure, if DS2 becomes a resounding sucess (sells wise), I will be the first to ask them to step up their game for future titles. But asking them to provide a fully polished product is actually ridiculous. They are not a big company, technical wise, graphics have never been their forte, and as far as I can heard, there does not seem to be too many "show stopper" bugs, or blighttown situations. That's acceptable for those kind of companies. Like GSC (Stalker series), you take the quirks and lows because the rest of their games are quite good and innovative.

Nobody just suddenly woke up one and magically expected DS2 to have amazing graphics. You may not recall it, but during the reveal that's exactly what From + Namco did. They both tooted heavily the graphics horn, going so far as to getting magazines (I think it was Edge?) to call it something to the effect of "looking next-gen". A revamped engine and all-new lighting system was touted time and time again.

Then they go silent for months and release decidedly worse looking shots without saying a single word, and for a week+ we couldn't get two peeps out of From.

That's fine if they can't do "AAA graphics". Nobody really expected them to after Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1. But they were the ones who pretended to "up their game", and they were the ones who built the hype. This backlash is on them, not us. They set their own expectations and they're reaping the consequences of not living up to their own expectations.

c) If I'm understanding correctly, what people are actually asking, is to make sure the PR add the legend "work in progress/target render, not accurate reflection of the final product" to any early promotional material. If that's right, then just say that.

It's will make the whole situation clearer and enhance the possibility of actually getting a desired result.

"People" is more than one person. Like I said, different things are annoying different people, and each want a different thing out of it. Some want answers (Where was this vertical slice? Why did it seem to run so much better on demo units that were clearly PS3s, or was that faked? At what point was this game downgraded, and why did we keep getting clearly better looking yet outdated builds for weeks if not months after? How hasty and/or last-minute was this done? Because many of these areas seem to have been sloppily downgraded, etc.). Some want apologies. Some want a PC version that looks like at least the TGS demo. Some just want more transparency in what is clearly an unrealistic target render in the future.

I think to you this is sounding like a lot of aimless noise. What you're really listening to is different people reacting differently to this situation. You can save a lot of frustration if you map one complaint to one individual instead of trying to view it in broad strokes.

 

[Lazyslob]

You guys serious about the combat feeling off?

Pfft. By off they mean different than dark souls 1. It may feel different, but that doesnt mean it is off. If it were "off" it would be something like the INSANE delay in dark souls 1. People will forgive that because it was a "cult hit"

 

[Morrigan Stark]

No the combat feels a lot more delayed and every action you execute takes a lot more to recover.

Get more ADP or wear less heavy gear?

Never said all weapons feel the same.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=105086774#post105086774
"any command you execute feels like doing a heavy greatsword attack from Dark Souls 1."
It sure sounded like it. In any case, it's bullshit. And off-topic.

 

[UnrealEck]

I think Dark Souls 2 plays very very similar to Dark Souls. If you're a fan of Dark Souls and want more of the same, Dark Souls 2 fits the bill perfectly.

 

[B-Genius]

That depends on what people are irked about. Some are irked by the fact that there once existed a much better looking version that doesn't at all exist in a retail space. That's on From. Some dislike the fact that marketing materials displayed obviously outdated and "incidentally" a much better looking game up until release. They used those marketing shots in the back of the box and are still on the Steam store page. That's straight up deceitful marketing, and that's on Namco. Some are also pissed that From went "mysteriously" silent from "LIGHTING! NEXT GEN! GRAPHIX!" on release and now they're completely mute, with only a brief and kind of dismissive response given only today. That depends on who made that call, either Namco for marketing or From to cover their asses.

Are some people interchanging the two? Sure. It's not Namco's direct fault that the game couldn't handle the lighting engine and had to be downgraded. And it's probably not From's fault that the release marketing materials has outdated and clearly better looking screenshots than the actual game, but the fact of the matter is that both are fucking up this release in their own way. Neither really gets to wash their hands clean at this point.



Nobody just suddenly woke up one and magically expected DS2 to have amazing graphics. You may not recall it, but during the reveal that's exactly what From + Namco did. They both tooted heavily the graphics horn, going so far as to getting magazines (I think it was Edge?) to call it something to the effect of "looking next-gen". A revamped engine and all-new lighting system was touted time and time again.

Then they go silent for months and release decidedly worse looking shots without saying a single word, and for a week+ we couldn't get two peeps out of From.

That's fine if they can't do "AAA graphics". Nobody really expected them to after Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1. But they were the ones who pretended to "up their game", and they were the ones who built the hype. This backlash is on them, not us. They set their own expectations and they're reaping the consequences of not living up to their own expectations.



"People" is more than one person. Like I said, different things are annoying different people, and each want a different thing out of it. Some want answers (Where was this vertical slice? Why did it seem to run so much better on demo units that were clearly PS3s, or was that faked? At what point was this game downgraded, and why did we keep getting clearly better looking yet outdated builds for weeks if not months after? How hasty and/or last-minute was this done? Because many of these areas seem to have been sloppily downgraded, etc.). Some want apologies. Some want a PC version that looks like at least the TGS demo. Some just want more transparency in what is clearly an unrealistic target render in the future.

I think to you this is sounding like a lot of aimless noise. What you're really listening to is different people reacting differently to this situation. You can save a lot of frustration if you map one complaint to one individual instead of trying to view it in broad strokes.

You make a lot of sense, and I understand that there are various reactions to the situation. I think that poster was just trying to get people to see your point - that there are many sides to this, and in order to take the right angle you need to be careful where you direct the "blame" and try to see it from the other party's perspective, otherwise the argument will never be taken seriously and problems won't get solved.

However, I have a couple of issues with your response to the second point.
The game that From developed does indeed use a new engine, which they built from scratch. It incorporates a new lighting system not present in previous Souls games. As a small-medium business, they seem pleased with the results they ended up with, even if they fell short of targets for the E3 demo/network test/etc. If you bought the game solely on how you thought it *should* look, and were disappointed with the results of their labour, your disappointment is justified. I'm not sure where you can go from there, though, save getting hired to help them solve their technical problems.

"They" went quiet for months? If you're talking about From, then they're not exactly the most outgoing developer on the planet. They've never made a point of keeping everyone up to date on development status, or following trends elsewhere in the industry. Developer diaries were released prior to release that showed them talking about the version we currently have in our hands. You couldn't get two peeps out of them about this issue? That's probably because it took a while for the ruckus to reach them, and then it takes more time to process the voices and filter out a suitable response. If you were expecting them to address every single concern and answer each question at this stage, then I don't know what to tell you.

They pretended to up their game? They built the hype? The backlash is on them? So the consensus is that in no way is the end-user to blame for their own misconstrued expectations. "If GAF was fooled, then what about your average consumer!?" I've seen this line floating around, and have to struggle to imagine what must be going through some peoples' heads... Poor, ignorant gamers, enjoying this game. Little do they know that they aren't playing the game they were promised. If only they knew what I knew, they wouldn't have bought it and would be freed of its terrible embrace...

As an aside, I also take issue with the term "bait and switch" (used countless times elsewhere), as it implies that people who legitimately bought into the game and are currently enjoying it were coaxed in by the pretty exterior and then had the rug pulled from under them. It's as if you're somehow a smarter, more tuned-in professional know-it-all of games if you didn't buy into their "baiting" techniques and "shady business practice". It's pretty insulting, as is the idea that those of us who aren't contributing to the noise are "giving From a free pass". As if it's our moral duty to be upset by this, when in fact we're simply satisfied with our purchase for a wealth of other reasons.

If it wasn't a question whether or not they could "do AAA graphics" in the first place, then it seems people in your second point are just upset that the creator's vision of an "upgrade" in terms of visuals was not the same as what the individual had in mind. Basically, it becomes a question of taste and personal standards, which is I'm sure you'll agree, 100% subjective.

They're reaping the consequences? I would like to know how much profit they made from this game (as I believe it's currently approaching 2 million sales worldwide). It would also be interesting to see how many of those purchases were made explicitly due to the dev/pub getting excited about the new visuals.

 

[RexNovis]

More horseshit. WTF is this? There's a very great difference between using the falchion, the uchi, the longsword, the claymore, the halberd, the spears, the murakumo, the ultra greatswords... hell, even bows have a weightier feel now. Combat is as solid as it's ever been.

I don't want to say "no, they're not serious", but I'm seriously tempted to. I have 70 hours of the game using a dex build and have zero idea what the fuck they're on about.

I'm guessing they put shit all into Adaptability. Agility has a vast impact on the "responsiveness" of rolling, using items and weapon swings. That's really the only thing I can think of that might cause issues, Having prioritized Adaptability above all else on my sl 178 char I haven't noticed any sluggishness or slowdown compared to DaS1 at all. But then again I also didn't notice too much of a difference when I started my game as a Knight either. I did notice some sluggishness starting as a Bandit though since they have dreadfully low adaptability.