Support NeoGAF

[Ashes]

I know the deadline has passed, but I'm still reading the book. Only about a third of the way through it, but I just HAVE to say that I can't think of an author better at descriptions and imagery than McCarthy. I felt this way about The Road, which permeated an atmosphere I didn't think possible of a book. Now this notion is only solidified by Blood Meridian.

An excerpt from the chapter I just read:




The imagery is so powerful, fucking hell.

There isn't going to be another thread for a month, so I guess you are free to discuss at length...

 

[Cyan]

The imagery is so powerful, fucking hell.

It really is. It's unfortunately so dense that the book can be hard to just read, but certainly if you pull individual passages, there's some amazing stuff to dig into. Hell, you could probably pull a passage at random and get something great.

Edit:

There isn't going to be another thread for a month, so I guess you are free to discuss at length...

Honestly, I don't see any problem with people going back to old book club threads if they've just gotten into or just read one of those books. I don't really see it like the writing threads, where the old ones are done and we need to move to the next.

Nobody's gone back and bumped up any of them, but I wouldn't see it as a problem if they did. *shrug*

 

[Ashes]

The composition of the prose is such that it aids the fast reader to read faster than it takes to comprehend the prose it self.

Edit: I'll keep that in mind, if I read some of the books read in previous threads.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

The composition of the prose is such that it aids the fast reader to read faster than it takes to comprehend the prose it self.

Edit: I'll keep that in mind, if I read some of the books read in previous threads.

Well said, and true.

I've noticed that I take my time with this book much more than with any I've read in the past, including The Road.

My biggest issue so far is some of the Spanish language, most of which I'm not familiar with. But it helps with the atmosphere, I guess, because I imagine the Kid feels as lost as I do when confronted with Mexicans.

 

[Cyan]

The composition of the prose is such that it aids the fast reader to read faster than it takes to comprehend the prose it self.

This was slightly confusing, but do you mean that you could get by pretty well if you read fast without trying to comprehend the whole thing?

Somebody else (or maybe it was you?) recommended something similar earlier in the thread, and it definitely helped me finish the book.

 

[Ashes]

Perhaps, but that's not necessarily what I meant. I think its better to read slowly, and take a pencil to it.

What I meant was this. Read the first part of this book again, this time note whether the natural pace of the sentences lend themselves to a very fast pace. Short scenes, sparse dialogue, little to no transitions, short paragraphs. Contrast that opening to Ulysses.

Later on in the novel, it details graphic scenes but never seems to linger.

 

[Cyan]

Perhaps, but that's not necessarily what I meant. I think its better to read slowly, and take a pencil to it.

What I meant was this...

Ah! It was descriptive not prescriptive. Now I get it.

 

[Ashes]

Ah! It was descriptive not prescriptive. Now I get it.

Excellently put. Quite the way, you have with words.

Have you ever considered taking up writing? Short stories or novels?

We have a really cool thread about NaNoWriMo, that might be of some interest to you... Op's a bit... You know. But...

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

So yeah, at this point the crew are pretty much just brigands, riding around killing people and stealing shit, scalping everyone, leaving destruction in their wake. The thing with shoving mules off a steep cliff was... eh, well at this point there's something fucked up every other page, so it wasn't even that bad.

The Judge's explanation for his investigation, note-taking, etc was fascinating and kind of chilling. I had actually wondered if it wasn't something like that, but the way he explained it was just... *shudder*.

I just read past this part.

Sorry for the bump, but the last several chapters are just so amazingly fucked up. Rarely has a book made me just absolutely appalled at the actions of its characters, but I find it happening to me with nearly every page of this book. And I love it!

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Hey guys, just finished Chapter 16, and I was hoping someone could clear up a couple things for me.

First, what exactly was the entire exchange over whiskey about?

Second, the gang is in Tucson, Arizona at this point, right? I'm not sure I fully comprehended the city's demographics. It seems to be comprised of whites, blacks, Indians, Mexicans, and yet everyone seems to get along for the most part. Mangas is the leader of the Apache tribe, right? So who is Cout and who is he the lieutenant of exactly?

Sorry for all the questions, but the chapter left me somewhat confused as it seemed a stark contrast to some of the earlier chapters. Especially considering that the gang wasn't out murdering every Indian there, and in fact seemed to conduct itself in civil discussion for the most part.

 

[Cyan]

Hey guys, just finished Chapter 16, and I was hoping someone could clear up a couple things for me.

First, what exactly was the entire exchange over whiskey about?

The thing with the Indians? Bit foggy on what exactly happened, but I think they agreed to give the Indians whiskey as payment for the injured horse. I think they figured they couldn't shoot their way out against those odds, so took the easy route.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

I don't think that's right because it was mentioned that they had no whiskey on them.

I find it insane that there are virtually zero study guides for this book online. The only one that seems to be available is on Bookrags, and it's not free.

 

[Cyan]

I don't think that's right because it was mentioned that they had no whiskey on them.

Right, they promised to come back later with a barrel of whiskey.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

You sure there were no other stipulations? Would the Indians really just take them for their word? lol

I'm not sure why this is bothering me so much, but it is.

 

[slidewinder]

Hey guys, just finished Chapter 16, and I was hoping someone could clear up a couple things for me.

First, what exactly was the entire exchange over whiskey about?

Second, the gang is in Tucson, Arizona at this point, right? I'm not sure I fully comprehended the city's demographics. It seems to be comprised of whites, blacks, Indians, Mexicans, and yet everyone seems to get along for the most part. Mangas is the leader of the Apache tribe, right? So who is Cout and who is he the lieutenant of exactly?

Sorry for all the questions, but the chapter left me somewhat confused as it seemed a stark contrast to some of the earlier chapters. Especially considering that the gang wasn't out murdering every Indian there, and in fact seemed to conduct itself in civil discussion for the most part.

This is Mangas. One of the great Apache war chiefs, and father-in-law of the greatest, Cochise. The deal with the whiskey was ostensibly a way of calming the Indians over their horse's bitten ear, since the Apaches wouldn't have been allowed into Tucson to buy it, and (don't read if they haven't left Tucson yet)

Spoiler

had the additional benefit of being a way to rip them off, of course

.

Tucson was a racially mixed place then, and still is. It was part of Mexico at the time of the events there in this book (and would be until the Gadsden Purchase a few years later), but there were a fair number of white and probably some black Americans (mostly veterans of the Mexican-American war) mining and starting ranches in the area, exploiting the inability of the impoverished and nearly powerless Mexican government to control its very distant frontiers.

This, I think is the historical Couts; he was an American officer who would've been passing through Tucson on the way to San Diego. There being no kind of Mexican military or police presence in Tucson, he would've taken it upon himself to try and bring the murderer to justice.

Edit: oh yeah, and add to the Americans in the area people on their way through to join the California Gold Rush.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Thank you so much. Okay, so let me get this straight: the Apaches, led by Mangas, confronted the gang outside of Tucson. The gang promised the Indians that it would purchase a barrel of whiskey in Tucson and give it to them. Cout has no direct relation to the Indians then, which for some reason I didn't pick up on. Is it wrong of me to assume the gang won't bring the Indians a barrel of whiskey? lol

 

[slidewinder]

Right, Couts has no relation to the Indians. Just an American Army officer passing through who involved himself in the situation knowing that the tiny, underpaid (likely even UNpaid) Mexican army detachment that would've been manning the fort (which is what Tucson was at the time) couldn't have handled it and probably wouldn't have tried.

As for the rest, read on! Wasn't sure where you were at, glad I used the spoiler

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Haha, can't wait to see what happens next. Yeah, the thing that threw me off guard was how civil the gang appeared to be when confronted by the Apaches (and vice versa). I'm so used to them shooting first and not even asking questions later. Thought I missed something much bigger, but I guess it makes sense since the gang was clearly outnumbered and ill-equipped to engage in battle. Surprised that the Apache didn't just pounce on them.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Well, just finished the book, and it is without doubt one of the finest I've ever read. I foresee the imagery remaining with me for a long time to come.

The ending in particular, with its varying interpretations, none more intriguing than the

Spoiler

rape of the Kid at the hands of the Judge

, will also keep me thinking about the book for a long time to come. I shuddered at the image of the book's very final moments. Just terrifying.

Man, I don't know to say... the impression the book has left on me is unlike any other I've read in a long time. The prose, the language, the style, the imagery, the characters (especially the Judge, who is one of the most frightening I've encountered in literature), the violence, the darkness, the depravity, the similes, the allusions to God and Satan and other kinds of religious notions all come together to paint one of the most vivid stories ever told.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Just thought I'd throw this Yale University lecture on Blood Meridian out there in case you guys haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgyZ4ia25gg

Watching now.

 

[lastflowers]

The Judge killed him. The person's reaction to opening up the jakes indicates it.

There are some interpretations that the judge raped him before killing him.



Great novel.

 

[Cyan]

New book club thread is a go. "The Shadow of the Wind," by Carlos Ruiz Zafon.

Yes, I chose by fiat.