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[tuxfool]

This is the whole point.

People are treating this as proof that the demo itself was a faux when that doesnt seem to be the case.

The problem here is that people were treating a graphics demo as a full game. I'm aware that a small demo may run, but I'm also unwilling to say whether or not it is faked. It doesn't matter, at the time the developers said what was in the demo was possible.

In the end it wasn't. It doesn't matter now but it is something people should bear in mind when they see demos.

 

[nOoblet16]

Do you know that SSS is not only when you see translucensy through skin, but the way the light is absorbed by the skin, not only parts like fingers, or ears, do you know that ?

MGS5 PS4 has SSS, XboxOne doen't have it :

SSS is not only on ears and fingers, but all over the skin of a body.

Very odd that Dictator knows that, but it doesn't correct you, Javin or Tuxfool about this fact. Maybe because the enemies of his enemies are his friends...

Apparently, Wishmaster92 is one of the few ones who knows what SSS really is... and it is definetely not only about translucency through ears...

The light being absorbed by skin is due to translucency though. You are right in saying SSS is more than light passing through ears and fingers because a translucent skin would mean light penetrates the skin and diffuses. BUT the screenshots you posted earlier didn't help your case to show any of that, the added sharpness only made it worse as it made the skin look even more harsh and clay like.

The main reason why people pointed it out was because you used those screenshots where SSS wasn't really visible to claim it's the "best in the industry" without any comparisons or argument over why exactly...especially when games like Advanced Warfare, Until Dawn, Star Citizen and Infinite Warfare exist.

 

[Dictator93]

Very odd that Dictator knows that, but it doesn't correct you, Javin or Tuxfool about this fact.

The point about comparisons that tuxfool makes is very important, if not the most important one. Making claims about quality requires comparisons.

Maybe because the enemies of his enemies are his friends...

Should I disagree with something that I find egregious, I definitely will post about it. The point the person made there though was right inline with what tuxfool posted about lacking context and comparison.
Also, just as a practical aside: I cannot be everywhere at once at all moments to comment on every thing. Plus, I think this is definitely not the thread to start thinking about "factions" and putting people into categories.

 

[RenderJosh]

Do you know that SSS is not only when you see translucensy through skin, but the way the light is absorbed by the skin, not only parts like fingers, or ears, do you know that ?

MGS5 PS4 has SSS, XboxOne doen't have it :

SSS is not only on ears and fingers, but all over the skin of a body.

Very odd that Dictator knows that, but it doesn't correct you, Javin or Tuxfool about this fact. Maybe because the enemies of his enemies are his friends...

Apparently, Wishmaster92 is one of the few ones who knows what SSS really is... and it is definetely not only about translucency through ears...

You should read my posts again. I am not saying there is no SSS since it should be always active this close (note the should) to the camera. I am saying that your statement about UC4's SSS being the most advanced implementation in the industry is either not true, either can not be verified based on your selected shots because SSS is not the part in them that shine at all since there is so much (bad, when it comes to judge IQ and techs and least) tweaking.
And don't worry, I know well enough how SSS works, and it would not change the fact that the implementation's quality is everything but obvious in many of your shots apart from the one I mentionned. Ears, fingers or nose bridge are usually spots where you can easily tell if SSS is at work, well or not. And SSS affects any material as long as it can absorb light, thus skin, fabrics or even snow can benefit from it.

Very odd that Dictator knows that, but it doesn't correct you, Javin or Tuxfool about this fact. Maybe because the enemies of his enemies are his friends...

What the hell.

 

[dr guildo]

in many of your shots apart from the one I mentionned. Ears, fingers or nose bridge are usually spots where you can easily tell if SSS is at work, well or not. And SSS affects any material as long as it can absorb light, thus skin, fabrics or even snow can benefit from it.

Look at this image :

Now, please, tell me if the following image is more part of image A or more part of image B :

And just in case you would be still in doubt :

Using Disney Diffuse Model, added special cheap Sub-surface Scatter. We also added fabric micro details, small wrinkles and aging. For Specular models, we are using kajiya-kay model for silk fabric, and modified the fabric model from Ready at Dawn for cotton, wool, ext…

Models of the characters showing in the post are done by our talent Character team.
Real-time rendered in game.

http://www.cgsociety.org/news/article/2406/uncharted-4-the-art-of-yibing-jiang?edit=true

 

[RenderJosh]

I would say B. But I could also say inbetween. I mean, we have no way to compare anything with a single shot because in this case, you can obtain the same result by pure texture work.
Comparing SSS is always something nice to do with some lightsources animation and more than anything like it was mentionned many times, you need a moment with and without it. Something that we don't.

We are talking about the QUALITY of the implementation, not if it exists or not. You can take shots where it would be obvious, others where it is less; because of LOD, shaders quality, shots that can more or less take advantage of the tech... Wishmaster92's screenshot for example is definitely not an obvious case. It might/should be present but we can't see it since there is not direct lightsource affecting the model, or it might not because reasons. We don't know without anything to compare the shots to.


(Did you actually read my last post or not ?)

 

[dr guildo]

I would say B. But I could also say inbetween. I mean, we have no way to compare anything with a single shot because in this case, you can obtain the same result by pure texture work.
Comparing SSS is always something nice to do with some lightsources animation and more than anything like it was mentionned many times, you need a moment with and without it. Something that we don't.

We are talking about the QUALITY of the implementation, not if it exists or not. You can take shots where it would be obvious, others where it is less. Wishmaster92's screenshot for example is definitely not an obvious case. It might be present but we can't see it since there is not direct lightsource affecting the model, or it might not because reasons. We don't know.


(Did you actually read my last post or not ?)

This is from the link I posted above :

confirmed using SSS. Now we have a good spot of comparison... So my shot, SSS on or off ?

 

[tuxfool]

This is from the link I posted above :

confirmed using SSS. Now we have a good spot of comparison... So my shot, SSS on or off ?

I'm not sure you understand the point of this thread? There is no comparison to be had because you're not making one. My suggestion for you is to just drop it.

 

[RenderJosh]

(This is getting annoying)

Of course there is SSS, it is obvious as hell when using the cinematic shaders in the game or in the shots from Yibing Jiang. We know it is here, yes (and that is quite a generous definition of "cheap" implementation if you ask me). Except that we are talking about gameplay situations, where the shaders are not the same depending on the LOD among other things.

Look at this comparison.
I don't really like it very much since it was made to be extreme and pull down the game's visual quality, but we can very clearly see a difference in shader quality everywhere on the character (you were talking about wet/sweaty characters, you have a good example here when it is done right, with subtlety). I am not talking about if it is present or not, I am saying there is an obvious difference in shader (thus SSS) quality between cinematic and gameplay (again, duh). And in case of gameplay situations, we can't do 1:1 comparisons, so I am not sure what you are trying to argue on...

 

[Tyaren]

Seriously the image above is extremely selective. Yes, that looks absolutely horrible but the game usually has pretty nice, coherent lighting also during gameplay. I should know, because I was obsessed with photomode and literally made screens in every scene and new environment. It never looked as shitty as above.

 

[RenderJosh]

I feel like some people are only looking at the pictures, and not reading the actual posts

 

[tuxfool]

I feel like some people are only looking at the pictures, and not reading the actual posts

I'm starting to prefer this thread when it was less active.

 

[Wishmaster92]

My comparisons aren't meant to be "extreme" or to "pull down the games visual quality." The game looks like that sometimes except at drakes home and the sam prison level off the top of my head.

Seriously the image above is extremely selective. Yes, that looks absolutely horrible but the game usually has pretty nice, coherent lighting also during gameplay. I should know, because I was obsessed with photomode and literally made screens in every scene and new environment. It never looked as shitty as above.

Ok well why don't you do a cutscene vs photomode gameplay comparison yourself. But make sure to be fair and take the screen as soon as the cutscene ends at the same exact position as its cutscene counterpart. That is exactly what i did. It's a fun comparison and gives us something to talk about.

 

[Javin98]

Very odd that Dictator knows that, but it doesn't correct you, Javin or Tuxfool about this fact. Maybe because the enemies of his enemies are his friends...

What the hell does this even mean? I could give two shits about bias or silly platform wars, I just inform others when I think they are wrong. It doesn't help discussions when misinformation is being thrown around. In your case, like others have mentioned, you can't just go around throwing claims like "Best SSS in the industry!" without backing it up. Hell, or at least, post shots where SSS is most clearly visible. Out of all the shots of the nun level, only the young Nate shot really shows SSS off well. And that brings up another issue. You were talking about SSS, but most of your shots do not clearly show SSS. And now, we're not even debating the usage of SSS in Uncharted 4, but we're debating your claim of it being the best in the industry. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Here are some old screenshots i had saved back when the game released. The implementation is great, however this is misleading. The photo mode in uncharted 4 is misleading when compared to the last of us photo mode which has near identical user interface iirc. For starters, the photo mode in the last of us does not alter the image quality whatsoever, that is not true for uncharted 4 the hair dithering present during gameplay is gone after you go into photo mode and the taa basically supersamples after a couple of seconds and sharpens everything. In some instances i've even noticed it adds geometry such as plants in some scenes. The iq in realtime is just not as good as the last of us remaster sadly(iq not graphics), it's really blurry if you have motion blur enabled and the sharpening filter is really distracting. This is the only comparison i could put together since i don't have the game with me, i know the lighting is not a complete match but disregard the lighting for a second and pay attention to the hair, arms, belt buckle, etc...

I wish someone could do a better comparison to show the differences more clearly. The photo mode shot is gameplay distance so it is what you should see when playing.

Still going on with this bullshit comparison even after you're proven wrong? Wow. You may know your stuff, but spreading misinformation is just as bad as making uneducated claims.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Still going on with this bullshit comparison even after you're proven wrong? Wow. You may know your stuff, but spreading misinformation is just as bad as making uneducated claims.

Removed picture for you and the other poster guess when i get the game again i can make a better 1:1 lighting representation seeing as that somehow magically helps with the jagginess going on in the realtime picture

 

[Javin98]

Removed picture for you and the other poster guess when i get the game again i can make a better 1:1 lighting representation seeing as that somehow magically helps with the jagginess going on in the realtime picture

So you're willingly ignoring the part where in Photomode, the IQ is free of dithering because there is absolutely no motion whereas in gameplay even subtle motion can cause dithering from the TAA? Okay, have it your way.

 

[Wishmaster92]

So you're willingly ignoring the part where in Photomode, the IQ is free of dithering because there is absolutely no motion whereas in gameplay even subtle motion can cause dithering from the TAA? Okay, have it your way.

Correct! That is exactly what i am trying to say, photomode does not represent the image quality i see when playing the game and i hope with their next game they implement a better solution as tlou remaster did not suffer from this. So i hope they add msaa/fxaa combo in their next game as it worked so well for the order 1886 during gameplay. The ps4 version might not have it but the neo would.

 

[RenderJosh]

My comparisons aren't meant to be "extreme" or to "pull down the games visual quality." The game looks like that sometimes except at drakes home and the sam prison level off the top of my head

I saw this picture randomly on Google Images first and I assumed that was another "eww they lied to us" type of things once again, sorry. At least that is what I would do if I wanted to belittled the game by pointing out this kind of differences between cutscenes and gameplay

 

[Wishmaster92]

I saw this picture randomly on Google Images first and I assumed that was another "eww they lied to us" type of things once again, sorry. At least that is what I would do if I wanted to belittled the game by pointing out this kind of differences between cutscenes and gameplay

It's ok, it actually came from a thread i did back in June of what would you like to see added to the neo version of Uncharted 4 if it even happens.

 

[Makai]

I can't even tell which ones have SSS. You guys are too picky.

 

[Javin98]

Correct! That is exactly what i am trying to say, photomode does not represent the image quality i see when playing the game and i hope with their next game they implement a better solution as tlou remaster did not suffer from this. So i hope they add msaa/fxaa combo in their next game as it worked so well for the order 1886 during gameplay. The ps4 version might not have it but the neo would.

The point is, Photomode does not technically improve image quality. You said that the TAA in Photomode is supersampled, which is not true.

 

[icecold1983]

The point about comparisons that tuxfool makes is very important, if not the most important one. Making claims about quality requires comparisons.

Should I disagree with something that I find egregious, I definitely will post about it. The point the person made there though was right inline with what tuxfool posted about lacking context and comparison.
Also, just as a practical aside: I cannot be everywhere at once at all moments to comment on every thing. Plus, I think this is definitely not the thread to start thinking about "factions" and putting people into categories.

for real, its probably tough with you spending 10 hours a day dissecting every console exclusive!

 

[The Dear Leader]

I can't even tell which ones have SSS. You guys are too picky.

People being picky in a thread dedicated to picking apart graphics features in games, the nerve!

 

[RoboPlato]

Seriously the image above is extremely selective. Yes, that looks absolutely horrible but the game usually has pretty nice, coherent lighting also during gameplay. I should know, because I was obsessed with photomode and literally made screens in every scene and new environment. It never looked as shitty as above.

There are a number of areas where it really does look like the above comparison. Mostly in the larger areas.

I'm curious to see what kind of benefits a Neo version would bring to Uncharted 4. I'm assuming 60fps is out but better motion blur, higher res shadows, and more cohesive shader work between cutscene and gameplay combined with whatever kind of 4k reconstruction ND uses will be a pretty noticeable improvement.

 

[nOoblet16]

So many people simply do not read the posts they are replying to, thereby leading to repeat of points. .

Zettai mentions several times that the argument is not about whether game has SSS on or off but rather that the argument is about the claim that it's the "best in the industry" without actually using any reasoning as per why and using poor screenshots to make the point. And yet he gets asked whether he thinks SSS is on or off...smh.

Then there are people who just look at pictures, I mean Zettai SPECIFICALLY mentions that the comparison in that cutscene and gameplay to talk about shader differences is exaggerated but it's not really the point. Yet the VERY NEXT post says that it's an unfair comparison because it's exaggerated...wtf?



If you're going to post in this thread or indulge in an argument with someone then atleast make sure to read what you are replying to otherwise you're just derailing the thread and wasting everyone's time. This thread as of now is just full of pointless discussion and hyperboles. The thread is about discussing graphical techniques used in various games from an objective point of view...not simply UC4 graphics debate.

 

[Dictator93]

So many people simply do not read the posts they are replying to, thereby leading to repeat of points. .

Zettai mentions several times that the argument is not about whether game has SSS on or off but rather that the argument is about the claim that it's the "best in the industry" without actually using any reasoning as per why and using poor screenshots to make the point. And yet he gets asked whether he thinks SSS is on or off...smh.

Then there are people who just look at pictures, I mean Zettai SPECIFICALLY mentions that the comparison in that cutscene and gameplay to talk about shader differences is exaggerated but it's not really the point. Yet the VERY NEXT post says that it's an unfair comparison because it's exaggerated...wtf?

If you're going to post in this thread or indulge in an argument with someone then atleast make sure to read what you are replying to otherwise you're just derailing the thread and wasting everyone's time. This thread as of now is just full of pointless discussion and hyperboles. The thread is about discussing graphical techniques used in various games from an objective point of view...not simply UC4 graphics debate.

Thanks for posting this. It is time to call a spade a spade.
Dr. Guildo and others who came in here just to post about UC4 for some reason: I would ask all of you in a voluntary fashion to think before you post. Namely about what the other people in the thread are actually typing and what the point of this thread actually is. Here from the OP:

Are you tired of bickering about graphics entering your favorite thread? Well thankfully this thread can now act as a repository for reflected and thoughtful discussion of
graphics technology to get those posters out of your hair! This thread will be dedicated to discussing the technology and craft behind making video game graphics.
But this endeavour is not for the feint of heart. It will not devolve into a pointless mud flinging, drive-by posting rife with uninformed and flame war-like attitudes as in
other threads of a similar nature. Posting will have to be backed up with reasoning, like-for-like comparison and analogy, and uncompressed videos and images
demonstrating points. Comparisons between games and game engines should serve to point out interest facets of one game engine in comparison to another or to
highlight interesting differences. This is not about crowning kings in a face-off like manner.

I'm starting to prefer this thread when it was less active.

As did I. This last page has just been terrible and I think I may ask a mod if it is possible for a clean up in some way. I honestly think nothing of value was discussed over the last page and it was just... bad

for real, its probably tough with you spending 10 hours a day dissecting every console exclusive!

har har har

 

[Caayn]

So many people simply do not read the posts they are replying to, thereby leading to repeat of points. .

Zettai mentions several times that the argument is not about whether game has SSS on or off but rather that the argument is about the claim that it's the "best in the industry" without actually using any reasoning as per why and using poor screenshots to make the point. And yet he gets asked whether he thinks SSS is on or off...smh.

Then there are people who just look at pictures, I mean Zettai SPECIFICALLY mentions that the comparison in that cutscene and gameplay to talk about shader differences is exaggerated but it's not really the point. Yet the VERY NEXT post says that it's an unfair comparison because it's exaggerated...wtf?

If you're going to post in this thread or indulge in an argument with someone then atleast make sure to read what you are replying to otherwise you're just derailing the thread and wasting everyone's time. This thread as of now is just full of pointless discussion and hyperboles. The thread is about discussing graphical techniques used in various games from an objective point of view...not simply UC4 graphics debate.

As someone who lurks this thread because I find the actual discussion and tech very interesting, but keep quiet because I don't feel that I can actually add something worthy to this thread. I want to thank you for this post and want to thank all the people who contribute in a meaningful manner to this thread.

 

[Javin98]

So many people simply do not read the posts they are replying to, thereby leading to repeat of points. .

Zettai mentions several times that the argument is not about whether game has SSS on or off but rather that the argument is about the claim that it's the "best in the industry" without actually using any reasoning as per why and using poor screenshots to make the point. And yet he gets asked whether he thinks SSS is on or off...smh.

Then there are people who just look at pictures, I mean Zettai SPECIFICALLY mentions that the comparison in that cutscene and gameplay to talk about shader differences is exaggerated but it's not really the point. Yet the VERY NEXT post says that it's an unfair comparison because it's exaggerated...wtf?



If you're going to post in this thread or indulge in an argument with someone then atleast make sure to read what you are replying to otherwise you're just derailing the thread and wasting everyone's time. This thread as of now is just full of pointless discussion and hyperboles. The thread is about discussing graphical techniques used in various games from an objective point of view...not simply UC4 graphics debate.

This thread is one of my favorite on GAF, and a large part has to do with the lack of inactivity. While I would prefer it if more people contributed meaningful information, it's also a good thing that it's inactive since it's free of GAF's hyperbole that way. Of course, I really love game graphics tech too.

*snip*

I hope you're not doing the scrolling thing again.

 

[zsynqx]

I don't know what any of this means, should interest you guys. (Uncharted 4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjCjXFmkX-4

 

[Dictator93]

I don't know what any of this means, should interest you guys. (Uncharted 4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjCjXFmkX-4

Thx!
Here is the (I presume at least) associated .pptx as well

 

[tuxfool]

I don't know what any of this means, should interest you guys. (Uncharted 4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjCjXFmkX-4

And the corresponding presentation (for the lazy).

http://advances.realtimerendering.com/other/2016/naughty_dog/NaughtyDog_TechArt_Final.pdf

e:beaten. Just download the pdf (I wish all presentations were offered as pdfs).

 

[dr guildo]

The point is, Photomode does not technically improve image quality. You said that the TAA in Photomode is supersampled, which is not true.

I completely agree with you for this time...

 

[tuxfool]

The point is, Photomode does not technically improve image quality. You said that the TAA in Photomode is supersampled, which is not true.

Didn't see this earlier. Without any specificity the word supersampled can be applied to TAA.

The id definition is probably the the most accurate for this method of AA, which is Temporal SuperSampling Anti Aliasing. It takes more samples than required from the previous frames.

What it is not is Spacially SuperSampled. Which takes extra samples from the same frame.

It depends on what was intended. Though I doubt they would use spacial supersampling in photomode because there, with a static image, they have plenty of frames to accumulate as opposed to having the game in motion.

 

[wesly999]

I'll just say that we are indeed a few generations away from seeing that UC4 early demo in real-time. We've been playing with Titan Xs, 1080s, 980Tis, etc..(which are all above and beyond the Neo/Scorpio) and they all aren't fast enough nor have enough memory for more complex solutions than what is out today.

Also, people must keep in mind that rendering through a game engine doesn't mean it's real-time. We send jobs to the GPUs all the time and know they'll come back in seconds, but they aren't rendered in real-time. We can then capture those frames and make trailers from them.

 

[icecold1983]

I'll just say that we are indeed a few generations away from seeing that UC4 early demo in real-time. We've been playing with Titan Xs, 1080s, 980Tis, etc..(which are all above and beyond the Neo/Scorpio) and they all aren't fast enough nor have enough memory for more complex solutions than what is out today.

Also, people must keep in mind that rendering through a game engine doesn't mean it's real-time. We send jobs to the GPUs all the time and know they'll come back in seconds, but they aren't rendered in real-time. We can then capture those frames and make trailers from them.

gm200+(and 390+ on amd side) definitely have enough grunt for more complex solutions than we see in cross platform titles today, the problem is games can not be written specifically for such powerful gpus.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Well since the other thread got ugly and it locked, i will post my latest findings here.

looking through some of their portfolio i'm going to guess that i found the proper e3 2014 vs the released version of Drake i was looking for. The interesting part is that it is missing the e3 2014 hair but it's still keeping the higher res textures present in the trailer. I mean to me it looks more detailed in just about everywhere.

There, i think that's the conclusion. There is a clear difference in the model so it has to be the e3 2014 version.

edit: I labeled the pictures for confusion sake. Better than making a new post about it.

 

[Javin98]

Didn't see this earlier. Without any specificity the word supersampled can be applied to TAA.

The id definition is probably the the most accurate for this method of AA, which is Temporal SuperSampling Anti Aliasing. It takes more samples than required from the previous frames.

What it is not is Spacially SuperSampled. Which takes extra samples from the same frame.

It depends on what was intended. Though I doubt they would use spacial supersampling in photomode because there, with a static image, they have plenty of frames to accumulate as opposed to having the game in motion.

Whoops, yeah, this was what I meant. Thanks for clarifying it for me. Basically the image quality in Photomode is "improved" because the image is static but nothing else is added to enhance the visuals.

I completely agree with you for this time...

It's not something to agree with or disagree with. That post is completely factual and Wishmaster has to accept it whether he likes it or not.

 

[nOoblet16]

Well since the other thread got ugly and it locked, i will post my latest findings here.

looking through some of their portfolio i'm going to guess that i found the proper e3 2014 vs the released version of Drake i was looking for. The interesting part is that it is missing the e3 2014 hair but it's still keeping the higher res textures present in the trailer. I mean to me it looks more detailed in just about everywhere.

There, i think that's the conclusion. There is a clear difference in the model so it has to be the e3 2014 version.

I don't think that's 2014 model. It's probably Drake at different age.
Left is middle aged Drake while right is 30 something Drake.

I'll just say that we are indeed a few generations away from seeing that UC4 early demo in real-time. We've been playing with Titan Xs, 1080s, 980Tis, etc..(which are all above and beyond the Neo/Scorpio) and they all aren't fast enough nor have enough memory for more complex solutions than what is out today.

Also, people must keep in mind that rendering through a game engine doesn't mean it's real-time. We send jobs to the GPUs all the time and know they'll come back in seconds, but they aren't rendered in real-time. We can then capture those frames and make trailers from them.

You would have seen that level of quality of the game was specifically built for a GPU like 1080/Titan X.
Atleast at 1080P/30FPS.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I don't think that's 2014 model. It's probably Drake at different age.
Left is middle aged Drake while right is 30 something Drake.

EDIT:
Pretty sure that is the 2014 model. Compared to the final one used in-game. These are the Drake models used in-game.

 

[nOoblet16]

That is the 2014 model. Compared to the final one used in-game. Younger UC1 Drake looks like this in UC4:


Old Drake looks like this:

Hard to find good pictures of both.

I didn't say young Drake, I said middle aged and the 30 something Drake. The game has 3 different models of adult Drake at different age.
I don't see any evidence of how or why that is the 2014 model.

EDIT: Yea I am sure the right one is 30 something Drake and left one is middle aged Drake but with one change (the wrinkle to the side of his eyes seemed to have been added in final game). There is clearly an age difference between the two in the image you posted earlier. The wrinkles are more pronounced on the left model (see underneath the eyes and forehead), skin looks aged and also check the beard colour.

 

[Noobcraft]

Whoops, yeah, this was what I meant. Thanks for clarifying it for me. Basically the image quality in Photomode is "improved" because the image is static but nothing else is added to enhance the visuals.

I'm not totally convinced on this. It's a weird case, but when you glitch outside of the map and enter photomode, environmental geometry appears that is absent in gameplay. Whether that applies to normal circumstances isn't something I looked into while I owned the game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I didn't say young Drake, I said middle aged and the 30 something Drake. The game has 3 different models of adult Drake at different age.
I don't see any evidence of how or why that is the 2014 model.

Read my edit. Not sure where he got the image but it's quite clearly the 2014 model.

Drake originally started out with an older and more realistic look but they made him look much younger and more idealised after that original teaser and the tech demos.

 

[Javin98]

I'm not totally convinced on this. It's a weird case, but when you glitch outside of the map and enter photomode, environmental geometry appears that is absent in gameplay. Whether that applies to normal circumstances isn't something I looked into while I owned the game.

Well, I would like to be proven wrong. For now, at least, we can safely say that nothing is done to improve the image quality besides the accumulation of frames from the already present in gameplay TAA.

 

[Frozone]

gm200+(and 390+ on amd side) definitely have enough grunt for more complex solutions than we see in cross platform titles today, the problem is games can not be written specifically for such powerful gpus.

I disagree. As long as we keep seeing screenspace solutions with very low texture resolutions and not enough variety in them (i.e. continuously repetitious) with low polys and sparse displacement, we are still very far away. Let's not even get into rendering actual real hair.

 

[Frozone]

Why is it that when UC4 gets mentioned in almost every graphics thread, 99.9% of the time, it's cutscene screenshots that are shown? Can't we keep things into perspective with comparing only gameplay shots without any photomode? No one is seeing these high quality lighting/shading when moving around Drake with the joystick in the middle of firefights.

 

[icecold1983]

I disagree. As long as we keep seeing screenspace solutions with very low texture resolutions and not enough variety in them (i.e. continuously repetitious) with low polys and sparse displacement, we are still very far away. Let's not even get into rendering actual real hair.

We are still very far away, but the aformentioned pc gpus can definitely do more than what is beind done by cross platform games imo

 

[nOoblet16]

Why is it that when UC4 gets mentioned in almost every graphics thread, 99.9% of the time, it's cutscene screenshots that are shown? Can't we keep things into perspective with comparing only gameplay shots without any photomode? No one is seeing these high quality lighting/shading when moving around Drake with the joystick in the middle of firefights.

No difference is shading and lighting between photo mode and gameplay.

 

[Dictator93]

I am honestly still a bit miffed that we are talking about UC4 in some sense of the word, as most posts are just back in forth confirmations or negations of previous posts with pictures that still are not commented well enough. Also wish listing is not too cool: "I hope some version of the game does this." If you want to wish list, post a screenshot please at least detailing the graphical elements you are talking about and comment on it.

Could we please up the rigour in posting? If you post a picture, describe exactly what you want people to look for in it and how it is relevant to discussion. Furthermore, decide whether that discussion is fruitful. I honestly think just moving some lame conversation about whether UC4 was downgraded from a dumpster fire thread to this thread (a quality one IMO) is a problem. Think before posting please! Each page of this thread should be informative and interesting! Not useless back and forth pointing about an already proven moot point!

 

[icecold1983]

havent read them yet but heres some siggraph presentations from developers under activision. the subdivision one i will get to first

http://c0de517e.blogspot.fr/2016/08/activision-siggraph-2016.html?m=1

 

[illamap]

havent read them yet but heres some siggraph presentations from developers under activision. the subdivision one i will get to first

http://c0de517e.blogspot.fr/2016/08/activision-siggraph-2016.html?m=1

It really saddens me that people still call out cod for using slightly modified id tech 3 when in reality they push forward thinking innovative tech.