PixyJunket
Member
For under/around $200, you'll really need to stick with the LP60 and a pair of powered speakers.
Anything else is going to be $300+.
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Game soundtracks on vinyl | Analogue Gen 33fps
- Thread starter Noisepurge
- Start date
Anything else is going to be $300+.
I'd definitely looked pre-owned. There always seem to be 70s-era solid state receivers kicking around for cheap in my area, they tend to have a nice warm sound and will be able to amplify a table without the need for a pre-amp.
STSPhonoCo
Neo Member
Agreed. I always recommend getting vintage gear for your first turntable. You get so much more bang for your buck that way.
admiraltaftbar
Member
My copy of no man's sky came from iam8bit. Not going to lie the end product is very nice and sounds great. Was situated though with side D being an engraving but it looks nice and I haven't noticed any of the issues that sometimes occur if to much music is crammed on a single side.
Interested in how it compares to the laced release.
Interested in how it compares to the laced release.
I couldn't actually tell if that post from Echoes was meant to be a parody or not. In the very least, these companies who use the artwork/booklet feature as an excuse to inflate the price for customers *should* offer a bare-bones version for a reduced price.
Or you could be like Data Discs, offer cool artwork and no booklet for a price people can actually swallow.
Or I'd suggest looking for a second-hand turntable, even at something like a flea market. I got lucky and re-inherited a turntable from when I used to live with my parents, but stick with a good brand and I'm sure one could quite easily get something half decent for under $200 (esp. if that's USD).
Edit: I just had a quick look on eBay US, and the turntable I scored (which is also the first turntable Grandmaster Flash scratched on, as it turns out) seems to be going for about $100USD. It's the Technics SL-23, and afaik doesn't seem to have many (if any) problems if buying used.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Disclaimer: I am not specifically speaking on behalf of Brave Wave by making this post. This post does not necessarily describe what is exactly being done at any particular label or publisher. Rather, it's an explanation of the myriad of factors that go into pricing pretty much any product, including VGM vinyl, and what may or may not apply for any VGM label.
I don't mean any offense at all, but such viewpoints above threaten the long term viability of VGM vinyl as a business. They appear (and correct me if I'm wrong) to draw on far too many assumptions and make comparisons that don't hold up to scrutiny.
I can tell you now that the most immediate difference between video game vinyl and, say, film or pop music vinyl is the economies of scale. Based on what I've heard around the industry, the numbers aren't high enough for VGM vinyl pricing to work its way down to the levels enjoyed by other media.
And because the pure number of VGM vinyl sales is relatively low, licensers may be apprehensive about making agreements without high advanced payments and royalties. One common justification is that the manpower needed to execute an agreement and the appropriate auditing that follows would exceed any returns that videogame vinyl can bring in. Licensing fees and/or royalties can range anywhere from 10-70% of net sales and advances can reach five-figure sums.
And then only after that, you get into production costs. This is not cheap at all. And then you throw customer service costs on top of everything. Vinyl collectors often demand products with no blemishes, while many shipping couriers in North America, Europe and Australia can and do damage vinyl packaging due to carelessness. This means shipping packaging needs to be highly protective, tracked and insured, which further increases costs that many users are resistant to. All this managed by organizations without vast resources and limited manpower.
I'm not saying that there is no exploitation going on in this industry. I won't comment specifically on other labels. But I can tell you that VGM vinyl is a cutthroat business that needs to be managed carefully on all ends. And for some labels, it results in a higher price. In all likelihood, no one is getting rich from it, although ideally in the future, the userbase will build up to a point where the economies of scale give way to a more mass-market approach.
None of this economics of scale stuff is an excuse, man. If it was, vinyl would have disappeared as a format ages ago.
Niche markets is what vinyl labels outside of VGM have thrived on for years and they have never had this problem. While the secondary market for rare albums balloons to high prices quite regularly, the initial MSRP for albums is rarely as high as anything we see with VGM. I guarantee you that video game music like Rez or really any major recent release has a wider audience than, I dunno, name any incredibly niche metal band. It's infinitely more marketable to say "hey, the soundtrack to this critical darling everyone on the internet loves is getting a vinyl release!" than "hey, this obscure Belgian band record store geeks love is finally reissuing their first album!" and yet somehow, the former is the kind of thing that always gets priced absurdly high.
iam8bit essentially prices their albums as if they were aftermarket, even though they're the primary source. Quite frankly, if they really are pricing things as low as they possibly can, they need to rethink their strategy.
Agreed. They're free to charge what they want and I as a consumer am free to get my vinyl elsewhere. I buy from Brave Wave, Mondo, Space Labs, etc.
cvxfreak, the problem with iam8bit isn't the pricing of itself. If they offered fantastic customer service, timely delivery, or anything else that would add to the value, I think you'd see a lot more sympathy towards them. The problem is, their customer service (and general attitude towards their customers really) is poor, and I think calling it poor is being polite. I cannot remember the last product they put out that was not delayed. They never offer anything other than lip service for these delays. I actually understand the NMS Explorer Edition delays because it's a special product and things happen. When every edition of vinyl comes out is consistently delayed by 3-4 months there is a serious problem with your production process that needs to be looked at.
My wife got the Undertale vinyl for my daughter with the idea that hopefully it can be a christmas gift because she's absolutely in love with that game. I have absolutely zero expectation that it will not be delayed until March or April though.
If we all seem a bit jaded and apathetic towards iam8bit, it's because we've all been burned numerous times by them. I for one am done with them until they either improve their change their business practices (lower their prices a bit and actually fix their manufacturing process) and improve their customer service.
I definitely see what you're saying and I can see why people develop these feelings. I've yet to see something published that covers the labor of making VGM vinyl. If the stars align, sometime I would love to write up a Yacht Club Games-style article on some of our projects. I think it would be very interesting. Someday, but probably not soon. But as I've said above, one model doesn't fit all, and I cannot overstate enough how the nuances of every different label and the releases within each label can fluctuate massively and heavily influence how a product is priced.
I stand by my assertion that economies of scale do make a difference, particularly for licensed work. I've held discussions with labels, publishers and consultants in Japan, France, the US, Germany and other countries during the last 18 months to develop my understanding of the business and how it's evolved over the years. I do genuinely believe that product pricing often (not always) reflects the reality of how much a cost a project has incurred, of which many elements are invisible to the public eye, and also the cost of maintaining a sustainable, consistent business.
By the way, I apologize if this was unclear, but I'm not necessarily talking just about iam8bit here. From my standpoint, I would say they are deliberately pursuing a specific business model, but I don't want to comment directly or speculate any further out of courtesy for them as a competitor and fellow publisher.
PixyJunket
Member
......I didn't even think of that.
Data Discs releases come with art prints! And they provide REALLY nice inner sleeves (which I've never seen anybody mention).
They really are the best.
The only thing I would think against this is possibly needing additional equipment (preamp, amp, etc.). The LP60/speaker combo is basically plug and play, which would be pretty good for a complete newbie.
XANDER CAGE
Member
For sure, and I also apologize if I'm accidentally putting you in an awkward position commenting here - I just find the "licensing and scale" argument personally pretty weak given my own years of experience in this hobby.
You mention that a lot of the labor costs here are invisible to the consumer, which is definitely true. I am absolutely willing to accept that licensing is a tricky thing to negotiate with VGM, particularly when dealing with old games or Japanese games, where weird licensing entanglements or what have you. Still, that's also really not that much different from what countless other indie labels do day in, day out with obscure bands, old film soundtracks, private press rereleases, and other niche products that never touch the pricing of most VGM vinyl. It makes VGM vinyl pricing really hard to swallow, even if in some cases it really is justified by the labor. I was one of the people who woke up at an odd hour to secure my preorder for the Brave Wave SFII set, and while it was very expensive for a 4xLP, I'm quite happy with it.
Still, it was very expensive, and to be perfectly frank, I don't know if all of the bells and whistles were necessary. The box and print job I'm sure were astronomically expensive compared to a typical gatefold or slip box. The anti-static sleeves are a nice touch, but definitely an "above and beyond" addition that couldn't have come cheap - most vinyl collectors I know (myself included) tend to buy those separately to add later. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember it being brought up in a making-of article or interview that the records themselves were printed at a fairly legendary plant in Japan. I'm not sure if that was more or less expensive than a typical run.
You also mention stuff like art (VERY cool art in Shovel Knight's case), but typically artists will always get compensated for physical runs or paid a flat fee for their artwork, so that's not really out of the ordinary for a vinyl production. Booklets, well, there's a hefty chunk of change for color printing I assume, also understandable - but really, how many records these days come with those? Are they needed for every release?
Vinyl will always be an enthusiast product, but VGM vinyl is splitting a weird difference between enthusiast product and luxury product right now. These lavish VGM releases are cool in theory, but they are pricing a lot of people out who just want to be able to buy music they like. There are things involved that I would not call baubles - remastering work I think is absolutely critical - but a lot of the other stuff, well... I get that you guys want to make the absolute very best products possible, but it's worrying to me as a music fan and vinyl enthusiast that the powerhouses of VGM records are consistently releasing extremely expensive luxury products. It'd be one thing if there was like, for example, a "regular" way to buy things like Street Fighter on vinyl and the more lavish option as a limited thing, but right now for pretty much any major VGM release right now regardless of label - Hyper Light Drifter, Street Fighter, Rez, presumably Shovel Knight - the norm is extremely high prices.
Speaking as a huge vinyl fan, that's not normal in any other genre. It may be justified on y'all's end, but in my humble opinion, that may signal a need to reevaluate on the label's part, not on the consumer's part. I'm not saying you shouldn't strive to make the best releases possible; but consider that, maybe, on the audience's end, a good price is a big part of what makes something a good release.
FiveElementNinja
Member
Just got an email that Hyper Light Drifter shipped. Wooo
Not at all -- I can't learn myself without engaging with enthusiasts, so your feedback is always appreciated. Your post raises many tremendously important and valid points and I believe such thought process can and should be applied to VGM vinyl.
You mentioned Japan and Japanese vinyl manufacturers, which is an interesting opportunity to chime in regarding Brave Wave. There is only one vinyl manufacturer in Japan, which effectively monopolizes the process, and their costs are high. Being a Japanese company that sells vinyl outside that country (in SFII's case, there was no Japanese release), one factor that I'm not sure is applicable to another VGM indie label is foreign exchange risk. When SFII pre-orders began, we were at ¥125 to $1. By the time the record shipped in April, we hit ¥110. Now we're at ¥103. This is just one example among what I'm sure are many that make it difficult to directly compare our label with another.
With Shovel Knight, we've made different arrangements in Europe. It is not even going to be remotely close to what anyone would consider overpriced (at least we hope so). We'll reveal the price pretty soon, but just know that we've tried to keep the best interests of buyers and the label in mind.
I suppose the best kind of parallel one could draw is if video games only came out in LE packaging and there was no other way to play the game (digitally or otherwise).
Disclaimer: I am not specifically speaking on behalf of Brave Wave by making this post. This post does not necessarily describe what is exactly being done at any particular label or publisher. Rather, it's an explanation of the myriad of factors that go into pricing pretty much any product, including VGM vinyl, and what may or may not apply for any VGM label.
I don't mean any offense at all, but such viewpoints above threaten the long term viability of VGM vinyl as a business. They appear (and correct me if I'm wrong) to draw on far too many assumptions and make comparisons that don't hold up to scrutiny.
I can tell you now that the most immediate difference between video game vinyl and, say, film or pop music vinyl is the economies of scale. Based on what I've heard around the industry, the numbers aren't high enough for VGM vinyl pricing to work its way down to the levels enjoyed by other media.
And because the pure number of VGM vinyl sales is relatively low, licensers may be apprehensive about making agreements without high advanced payments and royalties. One common justification is that the manpower needed to execute an agreement and the appropriate auditing that follows would exceed any returns that videogame vinyl can bring in. Licensing fees and/or royalties can range anywhere from 10-70% of net sales and advances can reach five-figure sums.
And then only after that, you get into production costs. This is not cheap at all. And then you throw customer service costs on top of everything. Vinyl collectors often demand products with no blemishes, while many shipping couriers in North America, Europe and Australia can and do damage vinyl packaging due to carelessness. This means shipping packaging needs to be highly protective, tracked and insured, which further increases costs that many users are resistant to. All this managed by organizations without vast resources and limited manpower.
I'm not saying that there is no exploitation going on in this industry. I won't comment specifically on other labels. But I can tell you that VGM vinyl is a cutthroat business that needs to be managed carefully on all ends. And for some labels, it results in a higher price. In all likelihood, no one is getting rich from it, although ideally in the future, the userbase will build up to a point where the economies of scale give way to a more mass-market approach.
No offense taken -- I drew from no assumptions, but from having financed record labels with limited runs of anywhere between 300 to 3000 copies.
I don't buy the argument, especially since the original point was made on comissioned art and a booklet, and not licensing.
Dozens of record labels are comissioning, licensing, remastering, and releasing soundtracks to movies, too. Few, if any, are pulling this narrative.
Milan Records released Terminator -- Terminator! -- for $35. That's the very high end. Some videogame labels are trying to make $35 the *floor*.
I don't buy it.
EDIT: I completely edited my previous post as it didn't really bring much substance to the thread and was full of conjecture.
In keeping with my very original point, I'm not sure it's fair to compare Milan Records to other labels. They have an extensive catalog of A-level franchise vinyls -- and more impressively, other merchandise including clothing. To that end, I would assume they do a much larger volume of business than many other labels, have the luxury of negotiating bulk discounts, enjoy a more consistent cash flow and have access to stronger financing if need be -- on top of the valuable relationships they have with Hollywood and the like.
It shouldn't come as a surprise that another smaller, less experienced label may not necessarily be able to offer as competitive a price.
One thing I'm proud of at Brave Wave is that Generation Series isn't just vinyl -- digital and CD releases are just as important. SFII was a high end package, but the CD was much more affordable and readily available. For the whole series in general, offering alternative versions gives customers more choice, but honestly also helps keep the business sustainable as a whole while helping it make large investments in the future. Vinyl alone would make that difficult to achieve.
sixteen-bit
Member
sounds like that ia8b customer experience as usual
Yep, got the email, but no download after I go through the link.
afternoon delight
Member
I kept trying to think of another way of phrasing this or better words to use but after a day I stopped and just chose to requote. VGM vinyl so far appears to frequently hover in the "two to three albums of any other genre for the price of one" and it's made my decision to skip each time so very very easy. VGM makes up maybe a twentieth of my music purchases so maybe I'm not in the prime consumer category for current marketing strategies, but every time a big title gets released I check it against all the other music I'm interested in and it can honestly get bent for what it's asking in terms of value propositions available on the market. VGM can claim its an anomaly or new territory but I frankly don't care in the slightest, there's always new music to find for a half or third of the price.
As others have stated, this is printing and distributing only LEs at LE prices and I'm the type that buys GOTY editions on Steam two years later. I'm also fully aware that my purchasing habits or ideas may not reflect who they're aiming for, which is totally fine too. When the decision amounts to "do I want forty minutes of chiptunes or two Miles Davis records" I always choose Davis.
sixteen-bit
Member
wrong thread
What if there were Miles Davis songs done in chiptune format?
PixyJunket
Member
*drools*
I can keep going -- feel free to take out Milan.
Joyful Noise
Graveface Records
Terrorvision
Southern Lord
Temporary Residence
Lakeshore Records
ShipToShore
DataDiscs
No other smaller, less experienced labels are starting off with high end pricing. You've presented nothing unique to VGM that justified the pricing.
OfTheOverflow
Member
Okay so I got my iam8bit copy of the No Man's Sky soundtrack, and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with the packaging. The plastic sleeve housing the whole LP has the text that would normally be printed on the front of the package on that sleeve instead, leaving you with that great, untainted artwork. Additionally, D side looks cool but it's a shame they didn't cram some other tracks on it.
I see your point, but you can list 1000 labels and my point would still be the same as before.
PixyJunket
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah these posts don't make me all that confident over SK's pricing. I wonder what it comes in at.
Seriously this. Y'all just blew my mind.
edit: and the story behind why this is no longer available to purchase is frustrating.
PixyJunket
Member
This thread may be worth checking out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chiptunes/comments/1nyd3k/are_there_any_jazz_chiptune_artists/
Living Proof
Member
I've grown tired of ia8b like many others here, but Brave Wave doesn't strike me as the same sort of stubborn, tactless business that caused such distress.
I've also somewhat conditioned myself to accept premium pricing for products I want of brands I love, and Shovel Knight is a good game with a great soundtrack-- I'd not hesitate to pay extra for the record rather than complain later at exploding second-hand prices (albeit less of a concern here seeing their willingness to offer reprints).
Obviously there's a point where it becomes unacceptable, either with an individual product or with a company who repeatedly offends, but I'm not going to protest and act bitter towards these things when the alternative is not having them available at all. I won't buy the Rez record, despite wanting it badly, but I'm not going to miss out on something I'd love to own from a different company altogether.
I probably sound like a moron, but there you go. I understand both sides of this argument, and don't think comparisons to other vinyl labels completely unwarranted, but I guess I've accepted the disparity out of a desire to own those soundtracks I love on a medium I collect. If Brave Wave starts perpetually fucking consumers over, I'll change my tune, I'm sure.
I've also somewhat conditioned myself to accept premium pricing for products I want of brands I love, and Shovel Knight is a good game with a great soundtrack-- I'd not hesitate to pay extra for the record rather than complain later at exploding second-hand prices (albeit less of a concern here seeing their willingness to offer reprints).
Obviously there's a point where it becomes unacceptable, either with an individual product or with a company who repeatedly offends, but I'm not going to protest and act bitter towards these things when the alternative is not having them available at all. I won't buy the Rez record, despite wanting it badly, but I'm not going to miss out on something I'd love to own from a different company altogether.
I probably sound like a moron, but there you go. I understand both sides of this argument, and don't think comparisons to other vinyl labels completely unwarranted, but I guess I've accepted the disparity out of a desire to own those soundtracks I love on a medium I collect. If Brave Wave starts perpetually fucking consumers over, I'll change my tune, I'm sure.
Grim Patron
Member
Yo need some help. My friend in the US has some of my vinyl. he's travelling to India and threw away the amazon packaging. Where could I order the vinyl mailers so he can bring them inside that wrapped with clothes in his bags?
or what else would oyu suggest for him to bring back like 5 x 2LP sets. Ill need to sort out something in the next 4 days.
or what else would oyu suggest for him to bring back like 5 x 2LP sets. Ill need to sort out something in the next 4 days.
sixteen-bit
Member
Figured you VGM heads might be interested in Red Bull's digging in the carts radio show. First guest is Manabu Namiki
http://win.gs/DITCS1E1
http://win.gs/DITCS1E1
admiraltaftbar
Member
So is your friend traveling on a plane with the records? If so I would suggest he just places them in whatever box you decide on as his under the seat carry-on (in a tote bag) rather than placing it in his luggage. While not as super brittle as some people claim, the records will most likely get jostled around and potentially bent up even though they are padded. However they could just as easily be perfectly fine.
As for mailers I think any shipping store (FedEx or UPS) might have them and two (maybe 3?) should be enough. You could also get a 12x12x12 box (or any 12x12x anything) and cut the height down to fit all five of the albums and include some extra room to wrap them in bubble tape. I've found big enough boxes at both target and Walmart with Walmart being cheaper but less sturdy.
Hope that helps.
Grim Patron
Member
Thanks a lot. I usually suggest carrying in hand in the flight but since this is 5 x 2LP sets i figured itll be too heavy for hand carry.
It'll be $35. This is a target price that was decided last month, by the way. The exact date and time of the preorder will be tweeted on Sunday; just ironing out some kinks.
My initial post "remember this has art and booklet" wasn't meant to suggest that we wanted to charge a high price. Obviously you guys hear this a lot everywhere so it's a safe assumption. Sorry for not phrasing it any better.
Ship To Shore will release Darius and The Adventures Of Bayou Billy. They have teasers for listening (digital only, I think) at MondoCon: https://twitter.com/STSPhonoCo/status/789656784168374273
sixteen-bit
Member
Darius and Rocket Knight Adventures are so bought.
PixyJunket
Member
That's great. It's a tiny bit high if we're being picky, but still in reasonable range of "new label, second release, niche release, etc." stuff. I think it'll do very well at that price.
We do appreciate that you guys come on here and chat with us, just excuse our bitterness a bit (especially from those of us that buy a lot on vinyl, not just video game stuff). Me personally, I complain about it a lot because I want to see video game music on vinyl grow and be healthy and I think the pricing we see a lot of ($35 and $40+ as a starting point) will eventually slow buying from even the guys that are only buying VGM on vinyl as more comes out and the impulse buy or buy 'em all mentality becomes harder and harder to handle.My initial post "remember this has art and booklet" wasn't meant to suggest that we wanted to charge a high price. Obviously you guys hear this a lot everywhere so it's a safe assumption. Sorry for not phrasing it any better.
Oh sweet! But check out that Snatcher cover art in that image too... StS, when will you let me preorder! I need it sooooo baaaaaad, haha.
Living Proof
Member
It'll be $35. This is a target price that was decided last month, by the way. The exact date and time of the preorder will be tweeted on Sunday; just ironing out some kinks.
My initial post "remember this has art and booklet" wasn't meant to suggest that we wanted to charge a high price. Obviously you guys hear this a lot everywhere so it's a safe assumption. Sorry for not phrasing it any better.
I think that's perfectly reasonable. Would have paid nearly double that without question just to have the soundtrack in this format. Can't wait!
That said, I agree wholeheartedly with the concern shown in terms of vgm pricing-- we'll certainly be seeing more and more releases in the coming months, and high prices across the board will negatively impact this niche market more than anything. I'll stomach any price for soundtracks I love (from good businesses of course), but I doubt I'd bother buying all vgm releases on impulse if the price hovers so relatively high on all of them.
I'd say Rez is a good, if extreme, example of this, and I would guess releases will be more abundant throughout next year than when that went up for sale.
PixyJunket
Member
This is the mentality that allows iam8bit to do what they do.
Living Proof
Member
Posted too early. I don't buy from ia8b, despite wanting several items on their shop.
Shovel Knight preorders open tomorrow at 6PM GMT: http://www.bravewave.net/genseries/002/faq
As reported it will be $35 and will be on "armor blue" 2LP vinyl.
New mockups as well:
As reported it will be $35 and will be on "armor blue" 2LP vinyl.
New mockups as well:
