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GamerGate: a discussion without internet-murdering each other about it

Corrik

Member
So far this timeline makes it sound like pro-gamergaters are people who attacked some girl for no reason because a dude was upset she dumped him.

So far... I would think being for Gamergate would be very bad based on the timeline so far.

Sad to see TotalBiscuit specifically named. He was a cool StarCraft announcer!
 

Corrik

Member
Okay think I read enough. Gamergate supporters are 4chan trolls and Far Right Milo.

Why would anyone be pro Gamergate? It literally was just making up a bunch of lies and harassing people?
 

Dunki

Member
Okay think I read enough. Gamergate supporters are 4chan trolls and Far Right Milo.

Why would anyone be pro Gamergate? It literally was just making up a bunch of lies and harassing people?
maybe also read the other site. as an example


https://medium.com/@nuckable/what-is-gamergate-94b966f12756

as for harassment


z2kfbyx.png
 
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Grinchy

Banned
It's a boogeyman. Any time someone didn't used to tow the leftist line, then that person was a "gamergator" which is the dumbest sounding phrase ever.
 

Dunki

Member
Okay I read yours also.

It really seems to me like you are all lynchpinning the word Gamergate in discussion, but you are all talking about different things also.
what timeline are you talking about and this is why gamergate was much more than black and white. One thing is clear it was very ugly on both sides. Just look up how many death threats Totalbiscuit has gotten during this time or how people were happy that he found out he has cancer.
 
The timeline and your video/blog thingies are completely not in sync with what exactly Gamergate is.
That's gamergate. Exactly what you want it to be. You can label it a hate group of sexist harassers, or champion it as a group fighting incestuous game journalists and political correctness.
 

Corrik

Member
what timeline are you talking about and this is why gamergate was much more than black and white. One thing is clear it was very ugly on both sides. Just look up how many death threats Totalbiscuit has gotten during this time or how people were happy that he found out he has cancer.
"Rationalwiki has a timeline."

This timeline is all about lying. Smearing women. Doxxing. Stalking. Somehow claiming victories for ethics policies which the timeline may as well just have someone saying "wtf does that have to do with being a victory" and attacking people under false pretenses (and even being run off entire boards for all criminal their behavior was).
 

Corrik

Member
That's gamergate. Exactly what you want it to be. You can label it a hate group of sexist harassers, or champion it as a group fighting incestuous game journalists and political correctness.
Then what is the disconnect. After 4 years someone has to have essentially said the two are not one and the same. Like, I have seen people say "person is literally a gamergater" as an insult. At some point someone has had to realize you are not arguing the same argument.
 

lifa-cobex

Member
Instead of trying to get a consensus and trying to sway a view point.
Why don't you go over to KIA and have a look for yourself. Make a judgement based on the content and user information put forward and then make a thread asking directly to address your thoughts.
Make a throw away if your paranoid.
 

Dunki

Member
"Rationalwiki has a timeline."

This timeline is all about lying. Smearing women. Doxxing. Stalking. Somehow claiming victories for ethics policies which the timeline may as well just have someone saying "wtf does that have to do with being a victory" and attacking people under false pretenses (and even being run off entire boards for all criminal their behavior was).
rational wiki is not really a very objective source.
 
Then what is the disconnect. After 4 years someone has to have essentially said the two are not one and the same. Like, I have seen people say "person is literally a gamergater" as an insult. At some point someone has had to realize you are not arguing the same argument.
Anti-gamergaters think the group was tainted when people started using it to harass people, so anyone who dares speak positively about it is obviously pro-harassment. Even if (some) of their grievances are founded, they should regroup and reorganize under a new name and make sure no harassment happens.

Pro-gamergaters think that's stupid, because there will always be bad apples in a bunch. They probably also suspect that a counter-movement has formed to slander gamergate, in an effort to shut down a conversation they don't like.

The disconnect is essentially two groups of people, having made up their mind about the argument and their opponents, and arguing with wat they believe the other side to be. The thing that happens all the time these days.
 

Barsinister

Banned
Corrik

You have asked a question you already knew the answer to. It is very disingenuous to do such a thing.

What are you really trying to ask? Be specific. There are many people here who are very smart and can help you find answers, if indeed you really have a question to begin with.
 

Corrik

Member
Corrik

You have asked a question you already knew the answer to. It is very disingenuous to do such a thing.

What are you really trying to ask? Be specific. There are many people here who are very smart and can help you find answers, if indeed you really have a question to begin with.
Huh?
 

OH-MyCar

Member
I'm by no means a Gamergate supporter (although a couple of their hits were ok), but this topic is some master-tier bait.
 

Barsinister

Banned


That is a good retort to my accusation. Would you like to engage further? I promise to be nice to you and not call you names. But I will stand by my judgement that you are not genuine in your question. Let's discover if I'm right.
 
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Corrik

Member
I'm by no means a Gamergate supporter (although a couple of their hits were ok), but this topic is some master-tier bait.
How is it bait? I am trying to understand what the big deal is about the damn thing? I heard it once or twice ever before I rejoined NeoGAF / ResetERA.
 

Barsinister

Banned
How is it bait? I am trying to understand what the big deal is about the damn thing? I heard it once or twice ever before I rejoined NeoGAF / ResetERA.

If you are serious with your question, "How is it bait?" I will give you one hint right now.

Someone who is innocent will deny the charge. Someone who is guilty will ask for proof of the charge.

Edit:

I have to go pick up my daughter from an Easter egg hunt. I will be back in half an hour.
 
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Corrik

Member
That is a good retort to my accusation. Would you like to engage further? I promise to be nice to you and not call you names. But I will stand by my accusation that you are not genuine in your question. Let's discover if I'm right.
I don't understand what you are doing? What question is not genuine? The topic question? Yeah, genuine. I was given some material to read / watch and have.

I kind of get the issue. Though I do not get why both sides bash their heads against the wall on other sides if both sides are arguing probably a universal agreement while painting each other side as something other than they say they represent.

Like, if a gamergater or whatever is someone who believes in ethics and journalism and not labeling the entire gamer subset. And if a anti-gamergate? Still unsure on the words supposed to show each side. I saw proto-gamergater in the one link. I assume that is pro. I don't know. Anyways lost tangent. If an anti is just stopping doxxing, harrassment, and mistreatment of women? in gaming.

Then I am sure both sides agree to these right?

So the main difference is mostly that... Gamergaters view anti-gamergaters as trying to (actually not sure here) as SJWs? who are more interested in unethical reporting?

While anti-gamergaters view gamergaters as sexists who bully people online?

And neither of the two labels really represent the other really?

Like, I do not understand why this is a huge issue. I am from GameFAQs and like teamliquid.net. I do not know that this issue was ever big on either site because if so I definitely missed it entirely.
 

Dunki

Member
Like, I do not understand why this is a huge issue. I am from GameFAQs and like teamliquid.net. I do not know that this issue was ever big on either site because if so I definitely missed it entirely.
Because media made it a huge issue but only reporting on on side of the whole thing.

In the end it was a lot of bullshit and sad truth. For example chat logs were leaked where the games journalists literally planed these gamers are dead articles to help out a friend (zoe). I got told by a polygon writer who I warned that somoene is doxxing her that it does not matter if gamergate are the ones doxxing she will still blame it on themeven though gamergate people mass reported this doxxing account.

The end was that games journalism was done for a lot of people and this was also the rise of YouTube and Twitch streamers.
 

OH-MyCar

Member
How is it bait? I am trying to understand what the big deal is about the damn thing? I heard it once or twice ever before I rejoined NeoGAF / ResetERA.

animalcrossing.gif


I'm 100% in support of an Anti-Gamergate topic where people argue its merits (or lack thereof), although it's arguably redundant with other topics. Only the "Can someone explain this? I don't GET IT; So you're all harassers?" shtick seems a bit transparent. If you disagree with it, fight it head-on. That's the whole reason why I came back to this place after avoiding it for years: You're able to openly disagree without having to toe any political line. There's no need to feign ignorance for the sake of pursuing any argument.

If you're legitimately seeking clarification, then my apologies.

Edit: NM, this has been merged now.
 
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Corrik

Member
If you're legitimately seeking clarification, then my apologies.
I guess I accept your apology, but I am legitimately getting frustrated and irritated that people are attacking me for asking about something I do not know what it is.

Go find a single post on any website ever in all of time where I have posted in a Gamergate related topic. I don't because I have no idea wtf it is.

From combining the two sources (time line and Dunki's stuff), I am kind of gathering that initially the Gamergate group was malicious and from 4chan. Then the articles came out, which made a large chunk of every day gamers join in with Gamergate though not in agreement with the malicious intent that initially happened. But since under the same name is where the hate started on them?

I am basically guessing because it doesn't seem anyone has a concrete reason as to WHY.

If it is simply just a you had to be there at the time to understand then say so.
 

Barsinister

Banned
I guess I accept your apology, but I am legitimately getting frustrated and irritated that people are attacking me for asking about something I do not know what it is.

Go find a single post on any website ever in all of time where I have posted in a Gamergate related topic. I don't because I have no idea wtf it is.

From combining the two sources (time line and Dunki's stuff), I am kind of gathering that initially the Gamergate group was malicious and from 4chan. Then the articles came out, which made a large chunk of every day gamers join in with Gamergate though not in agreement with the malicious intent that initially happened. But since under the same name is where the hate started on them?

I am basically guessing because it doesn't seem anyone has a concrete reason as to WHY.

If it is simply just a you had to be there at the time to understand then say so.

First of all, I would like to assure you that you are not being attacked personally. It is the ideas that you area putting forth that are up for scrutinizing.

Your first post asked what a Gamergator is. After about three hours, you not only believe you have the answers, you are willing to put forth those answers in an accusatory manner. "Harrasser" and "Doxxer", and I even spy the word "malicious" in your post that I'm quoting, are not the things that a good and upstanding person will be wont to do! You have placed yourself in the "Arena of Ideas", fight like a gladiator if you can. These are perspectives on the world, this gamergator stuff, that has been going on for almost three years. It has left scars that don't seem to want to heal. I think it comes mostly down to a worldview. We can start here if you would like to answer. I'll be here.
 
I am basically guessing because it doesn't seem anyone has a concrete reason as to WHY.

To be quite frank, I've said my piece (and many others on the following pages) and I'm not really keen on starting the whole discussion all over again. My suggestion would be to read up on that particular topic. I'm sure you'll find much valuable information from either side of the discussion, so that you can make up your own mind.

The timeline and your video/blog thingies are completely not in sync with what exactly Gamergate is.

Nevertheless, you should be advised that Rationalwiki isn't not a trustworthy source. They have squarely been in the anti-GG camp from day 1 and are not even remotely interested in giving a nuanced account of what happened. Rationalwiki used to be a somewhat reliable skeptics wiki, but went off the deep end when the whole atheism+ thing went down. Since then they are on par with Conservapedia an equally biased wiki.

You should also be aware that the Wikipedia entry is subject to a never-ending edit-war of insane proportions. It has over 57 pages of archived discussions and quarrels between editors and was nominated for deletion twice. That doesn't automatically invalidate the Wikipedia entry, but you should be aware that the information that's being presented there is far from being considered factual.

It's difficult to explain, but just to give you an idea how ideologically charged both wiki articles are, look at the story of one of their most prolific contributors Ryulong. He alone was responsible for 19% of all the contributions made to the Wikipedia article about GG.

That guy was so obsessed with smearing GG, that he was first banned from editing the GG entry and then banned from Wikipedia altogether. During that time Ryulong felt the need to air his grievances through an AMA on a known anti-GG subreddit. It became so bad that Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia himself, had to intervene:

dP7HYZo.png


He was then invited by a sysadmin to participate on Rationalwiki, where he promptly started to obsess about GG to the point where his fellow contributors told him to take a break.

You've been editing the Gamergate article for like 9 hours straight, dude. You're editing it every day. This is behaviour that has already gotten you banned from Wikipedia. You should take a break. Seriously, this isn't healthy behaviour, you're starting to remind me uncomfortably of Ken DeMeyer. Take a holiday, yah? Let someone else worry about it. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 10:28, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

No, I was banned at Wikipedia for "recidivism" and not being civil in the face of a horde of trolls trying to skew an article in their favor when they don't have any sources to back their claims up. Research better.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Whatever. You're still putting in more than full work days editing here. For the sake of your own health, take a couple of weeks off, please. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 11:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Why—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Because what you're doing is a pretty clear sign of some sort of mental illness, dude. Editing a wiki is not a paid job, and doing it for ten hours at a stretch isn't good for you. If what you're doing isn't affecting your work or your personal life, it'd be some kind of miracle. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 11:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

The effort I'm putting into the page might actually get me work and my social life has been dead ever since I came back to the states.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

And this is just one of many incidents in relation to the wiki articles. In fact, it became so bad that Wikipedia had to intervene, banning a number of contributors from participating in any gender-related articles and issuing an official statement. Here's another take from the Guardian:

Wikipedia’s arbitration committee, the highest user-run body on the site, has voted to ban a number of editors from making corrections to articles about feminism, in an attempt to stop a long-running edit war over the entry on the “Gamergate controversy”. The editors, who were all actively attempting to prevent the article from being rewritten with a pro-Gamergate slant, were sanctioned by “arbcom” in its preliminary decision. While that may change as it is finalised, the body, known as Wikipedia’s supreme court, rarely reverses its decisions. The sanction bars the editors from having anything to do with any articles covering Gamergate, but also from any other article about “gender or sexuality, broadly construed”. Editors who had been pushing for the Wikipedia article to be fairer to Gamergate have also been sanctioned by the committee.

When it comes to objective empirical facts, Wikipedia is usually pretty decent, but when it comes to political content, you should be aware that wikis are subject to the same kind of controversies. Especially considering how Wikipedia as become the go-to website for primary information and thus plays a huge role in opinion-making. It's difficult to manage and as evidenced, Wikipedia at least tries to balance things out a little bit, but their arbitration process is very slow and cumbersome.

Rationalwiki on the other hand is, for the most part, completely and utterly broken. But people don't care whether the information they provide is factually correct, so long as it serves their particular agenda. In that regard you'd be wise to look at sources from both sides and make up your own mind.

Ironically you can start with a few articles by David Auerbach (yes, the same guy who called Ruylong out on his behavior), who tried to keep a more level headed and nuanced approach, here, here and here. Or Erik Kain's pieces, like this one or this one for example.
 
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Barsinister

Banned
I enjoy just about everything that strange headache strange headache posts. He will throw what seems like too much information for you to take in all at once. If you plan to make statements to him, be aware! He knows his stuff. And, although he'll deny it, he will suffer fools gladly. He loves to give information.
 

Geki-D

Banned
I'm guessing that another thread was folded into this one? One by Corrik?
Reading through this thread is a good place to start on if you want to learn about GG and I think most people have already said what they're going to say in here and have probably put in as much effort as they're going to already (I know I have).

Otherwise, I guess Leopirate did some decent stuff resuming GG (before he more or less self destructed his channel)


And this one isn't directly related, but it does touch on why Anita was connected to GG (if that's the angle you're hearing about on this):


Oh and don't trust Rationalwiki on anything. It's pretty much the left version of Conservapedia.
 
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diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
I was labeled as a gamer gater because I supported full disclosure by journalists in the gaming arena. Also wanted them to stop making wish washy feelings articles and reviewing games based on their politics.

That picked me up many a ban.

The harassment shit felt like a smear tactic to me. Trying to co-opt the focus from games journalists being terrible at their jobs.
 
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