• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

Status
Not open for further replies.

VALIS

Member
Jan 3, 2005
12,753
0
0
47
1200 posts. Jesus. Anyone mind giving a little capsule summary of what's going on? Yes, I'm familiar with the Keighley Doritos picture, then the Eurogamer criticism of it. And then?
 

BearPawB

Banned
May 14, 2012
6,308
0
0
if you have a conflict, just admit it. I, as a reader, will take that into account.
hiding makes things worse
 

Delusibeta

Banned
Feb 18, 2012
10,875
0
0
delusibeta.tumblr.com
1200 posts. Jesus. Anyone mind giving a little capsule summary of what's going on? Yes, I'm familiar with the Keighley Doritos picture, then the Eurogamer criticism of it. And then?
Penny Arcade Report has a good summary.
Super tl;dr version: one of the journalists quoted (and her employer) made noises of legal action/complained (depending on who you talk to), Eurogamer folded like a pack of cards, Rob Florence (the writer of the original article) resigned, shitstorm ensued, then we found out the person who complained also claimed to be a current employee of Square Enix, and the inevitable is ongoing.
 

BearPawB

Banned
May 14, 2012
6,308
0
0
I want this to turn into a spartacus type thing with all game journalists standing arm in arm infront a giant mound of doritos and dew
 

grimshawish

Banned
Dec 30, 2011
9,164
0
0
Okay...am gonna have to read back a few pages - the new title is a lot better than claiming this is about a man doing gymnastics near a ledge!
 

hammster

Archbishop of Canterburny
May 24, 2011
455
0
0
twitter.com
It's quite astonishing how much damage Lauren could have avoided by just staying quiet.

The original free PS3 competition was entered by a load of journos. I don't think she was one. She just defended them. But they've mostly escaped.
Geoff Keighley and Dave Cook were also mentioned in Florence's article. They've mostly escaped.
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,208
2
765
I want this to turn into a spartacus type with all game journalists standing arm in arm infront a giant mound of doritos and dew
Who is Lauren Wainright?

"Iam Lauren Wainright"

"No, Iam Lauren Wainright"

"Iam Lauren Wainright"
 

Lancehead

Member
Oct 27, 2011
2,788
0
0
1200 posts. Jesus. Anyone mind giving a little capsule summary of what's going on? Yes, I'm familiar with the Keighley Doritos picture, then the Eurogamer criticism of it. And then?
Apparent libel threats.
Content regarding Wainright removed.
Florence either resigns or is forced out.
Wainright removes "Square Enix" from her profile.
 

AkuMifune

Banned
Dec 23, 2007
11,687
0
0
Austin
I tend to be on friendly terms with PR people without going to Hawaii. I see them a lot. They're typically very nice, and a lot of them are helpful and good at their jobs. I'm also pretty candid with them and don't hide what I think about a game until it's review time, which a lot of them seem to appreciate. I've given a lot of very low scores and only had one instance where a publisher bitched about it (none of which was EA, by the way, or Capcom).

It's hard to explain how these events work, mentally speaking, but I am a hundred percent serious when I say they are more often a pain in the ass than anything else. And the place I'm playing a game hasn't once had an impact on how I felt about it. It didn't make Dragon's Dogma better, it didn't make Lost Planet 2 better. In fact, events like this and their regimented schedules tend to stress me out more than local events. I have a ton of shit to get done in a very compact schedule.

I understand why people think these trips make press more likely to like things, but if you look at the coverage coming out of them, that influence is virtually never borne out. At least not while I've been active in the press. I don't want to write off the possibility that someone could be influenced, but I've never seen it happen. I think people are much more likely to be led astray or into hyberbole by their enthusiasm for specific things, which is not going to go away. It's an opinion driven industry. Opinions owe as large a part to enthusiasm as anything.
I agree for the most part. I've followed (and been a part of the) gaming industry long enough to know that this is how it works, and in the end doesn't generally affect the coverage of the end content (unless maybe you've been given a hooker from Rockstar, lol). I just want to rant about the larger issue: It shouldn't be whether or not these events, or this or that freelance gig, or who funded this or that documentary actually has an influence on the coverage, but that it could be perceived as having an influence on the coverage. You should be saying "better safe than sorry," not "I'm a pro, I know I'm not affected by it, so I should be able to have my cake and eat it too." It's one area I really wish the gaming press would grow out of. Many of you act like it's cool because you know your not influenced by it and you should get to reap the perks that other people in the industry get because your fans too, which is true, you should, and you can...but don't ignore/deny the implications that accepting these things makes gaming communities so upset about.

It's why I used to love the hell out of Joystiqs no tolerance policy. It was so forward thinking it's no surprise it just didn't work. Financial realities/need for coverage aside, you should really be looking at how this perception of impropriety can be diminished wherever possible.
 

Patryn

Member
Dec 4, 2007
19,280
1
0
So I see she is trying to remove herself from the Internet.

If she would have confronted this head-on (or ignored it), it probably would have all blown over by now.
Ignoring it would have been the best course of action. Ironically, this all began with a visual questioning of Keighley's ethics, and yet he's shown the greatest amount of professionalism of those mentioned in the article and handled the whole thing the best by far. Just lay low, stay quiet and realize that the storm will blow itself out eventually.
 

Zeliard

Member
Apr 23, 2008
34,712
0
0
35
It's quite astonishing how much damage Lauren could have avoided by just staying quiet.

The original free PS3 competition was entered by a load of journos. I don't think she was one. She just defended them. But they've mostly escaped.
Geoff Keighley and Dave Cook were also mentioned in Florence's article. They've mostly escaped.
She continues to make it even worse for herself by deleting whatever appears incriminating, in futility.
 

flyinpiranha

Member
Aug 25, 2009
11,261
0
0
Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.
I see a bunch of gaming fans talking about the industry, in no way to do I see this as people being 'huffy puffy' ... unless you take the "holy shit, what a bitch!" to be something other than people just discussing in a casual tone.

I think you overestimate the vitriol and type of discussion. I called her a pretentious bitch (or rather she appears to be one with the attitude on Twitter) and I'm not angry at all.

Stop being a GAFreudian observer and just let people discuss what they want to. You could also be out volunteering instead of telling gamers on a gamer website how to live their lives ... jus' sayin'
 

Dibbz

Member
Oct 6, 2007
8,836
0
0
lol can't believe she deleted the SE reference on her site. She never used the internet before or something? Pressing delete does nothing except highlight you fucking deleted it. HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG
 
Jan 12, 2007
61,089
0
0
Toronto, ON. Canada
1200 posts. Jesus. Anyone mind giving a little capsule summary of what's going on? Yes, I'm familiar with the Keighley Doritos picture, then the Eurogamer criticism of it. And then?
I'll do a short recap:

  • Keighley surrounded by doritos followed by gaming bloggers retweeting a hashtag for advertising to win a PS3 makes Florence of Eurogamer curious.
  • Florence writes an article saying how things are shady and some sound like straight up PR e.g. Wainright orgasms for everything Squenix.
  • MVC/Wainwright send libel threats to Eurogamer, at which the article was edited to remove mentioning of Wainright.
  • Wainwright responds in twitter "Apology accepted" and something in the vain of applying her law classes to use.
  • Florence either steps down or is forced to resign to avoid any libel threat.
  • Both sides deny any threat or are not talking about it directly, but twitter posts hint that such threat existed. Florence is not confirming or denying whether he was fired or he stepped down.
  • "GAF and 4chan combine forces to see this standalone complex issue" alongside digital protest from Penny Arcade and more, showing what happened.
  • Wainwright's profile shows she is a freelancer for Square Enix. She admitted it and denied doing any reviews for Square Enix or shilling (she is wrong. She reviewed Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and did countless previews).
  • All this fiasco is too much for her and she privatize her twitter account. Next thing you know, she starts deleting tweets, videos and articles, and edits her profile to remove any mention of Square Enix freelancing.
  • David Jaffe offers Keighley Mountain Dew.
  • Gaming journalism.
 

theJwac

Member
Oct 24, 2008
570
1
740
Phoenix
No. Arrogant assholes who should know better yet continue down the path of destruction deserve everything they have coming to them.

People need to learn humility, and I don't think they will unless they are called out like this. If you are trying to make a living through the Internet, then you should damn well know how it works.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword" very much applies here.
Thanks Zefah. Your post makes a lot about this situation more clear to me.
 

EXGN

Member
Dec 26, 2007
2,716
0
0
No. Arrogant assholes who should know better yet continue down the path of destruction deserve everything they have coming to them.

People need to learn humility, and I don't think they will unless they are called out like this. If you are trying to make a living through the Internet, then you should damn well know how it works.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword" very much applies here.
I'm only reading through the first and last pages, but this post seems ridiculous. There is a difference between calling someone out and going on some witch hunt that involves cyberstalking and investigating them for the sole purpose defaming them.

People digging through her LinkedIn and other profiles are just anonymous assholes that get their rocks off by humiliating others, that behavior should never be tolerated and I can't believe anyone defends trying to ruin the career of another - especially over something as stupid and petty as games criticism.

Guarantee that if these people doing the stalking were publicly known people, they wouldn't say shit.
 

aegies

Member
Apr 24, 2007
983
0
0
I agree for the most part. I've followed (and been a part of the) gaming industry long enough to know that this is how it works, and in the end doesn't generally affect the coverage of the end content (unless maybe you've been given a hooker from Rockstar, lol). I just want to rant about the larger issue: It shouldn't be whether or not these events, or this or that freelance gig, or who funded this or that documentary actually has an influence on the coverage, but that it could be perceived as having an influence on the coverage. You should be saying "better safe than sorry," not "I'm a pro, I know I'm not affected by it, so I should be able to have my cake and eat it too." It's one area I really wish the gaming press would grow out of. Many of you act like it's cool because you know your not influenced by it and you should get to reap the perks that other people in the industry get because your fans too, which is true, you should, and you can...but don't ignore/deny the implications that accepting these things makes gaming communities so upset about.

It's why I used to love the hell out of Joystiqs no tolerance policy. It was so forward thinking it's no surprise it just didn't work. Financial realities/need for coverage aside, you should really be looking at how this perception of impropriety can be diminished wherever possible.
I'm not looking to break it off in anyone's ass for accepting travel — it's more often easier for a publisher to arrange hotels and flights around their event than to rely on outlets to get it done — but in our case, we paid for transport and lodging to this year's captivate. We also just did it for the Black Ops 2 review event. We can also afford to do it, so.
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Aug 22, 2011
19,681
7
0
Tsukuba, Japan
This is all the more funny to me because of Polygon launching yesterday. lol @ any group of people who take such a childish tweet-centric industry like game journalism that seriously.
 

Fistwell

Member
Feb 22, 2012
4,637
0
0
lol can't believe she deleted the SE reference on her site. She never used the internet before or something? Pressing delete does nothing except highlight you fucking deleted it. HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG
What the fuck is this shit?
 

El-Suave

Member
Apr 15, 2007
5,453
0
0
Germany
Going from journalism to PR is pretty normal. Better hours, better pay and less worries about your place of employment going bellyup.
The real coup is doing both jobs at the same time - like the many journalists who are hired by publishers and developers to host their Comic Con panels. It's amazing that both parties get free passes on those when they're actually working for the people they report on. Hosting these panels should be the core job for the developer's community managers, but no - they need the games press for those.
 

Felix Lighter

Member
Oct 2, 2007
20,750
1
0
I'll do a short recap:

Keighley surrounded by doritos followed by gaming bloggers retweeting a hashtag for advertising to win a PS3 makes Florence of Eurogamer curious.

Florence writes an article saying how things are shady and some sound like straight up PR e.g. Wainright orgasms for everything Squenix.

Eurogamer/Wainwright send libel threats to Eurogamer, at which the article was edited to remove mentioning of Wainright.

Wainwright responds in twitter "Apology accepted" and something in the vain of applying her law classes to use.


Florence either steps down or is forced to resign to avoid any libel threat.

Both sides deny any threat or are not talking about it directly, but twitter posts hint that such threat existed. Florence is not confirming or denying whether he was fired or he stepped down.

"GAF and 4chan combine forces to see this standalone complex issue" alongside digital protest from Penny Arcade and more, showing what happened.

Florence's profile shows she is a freelancer for Square Enix. She admitted it and denied doing any reviews for Square Enix or shilling (she is wrong. She reviewed Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and did countless previews).

All this fiasco is too much for her and she privatize her twitter account. Next thing you know, she starts deleting tweets, videos and articles.

David Jaffe offers Keighley Mountain Dew.

Gaming journalism.
She posted that she was putting her law classes to good use? Ha, what? How clueless can you be? Wow.
 

PrimeRib_

Member
Apr 6, 2012
449
0
0
Boston, MA
I'm only reading through the first and last pages, but this post seems ridiculous. There is a difference between calling someone out and going on some witch hunt that involves cyberstalking and investigating them for the sole purpose defaming them.

People digging through her LinkedIn and other profiles are just anonymous assholes that get their rocks off by humiliating others, that behavior should never be tolerated and I can't believe anyone defends trying to ruin the career of another - especially over something as stupid and petty as games criticism.

Guarantee that if these people doing the stalking were publicly known people, they wouldn't say shit.
she seems to be doing a fabulous job of ruining her own career, all by herself, actually
 

MormaPope

Banned
Mar 31, 2012
13,829
0
0
I'm only reading through the first and last pages, but this post seems ridiculous. There is a difference between calling someone out and going on some witch hunt that involves cyberstalking and investigating them for the sole purpose defaming them.

People digging through her LinkedIn and other profiles are just anonymous assholes that get their rocks off by humiliating others, that behavior should never be tolerated and I can't believe anyone defends trying to ruin the career of another - especially over something as stupid and petty as games criticism.

Guarantee that if these people doing the stalking were publicly known people, they wouldn't say shit.
It's sorta hard to trespass or stalk someone via internet.
 

Lime

Member
Apr 27, 2008
26,894
0
0
For Wainwright's sake I hope she lands a job as the community manager for Square Enix. Then she could just sue everybody who doesn't buy the game or review it poorly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.