bizzarewars
Banned
Yeah same, I got no sympathy.
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Games ruined by creator's politics
- Thread starter FlyinJ
- Start date
Yeah same, I got no sympathy.
cryptosporidium
Member
Again, you can believe his opinions to be most horrible, but you wont change his mind through abuse. Persuasion and understanding is what will change people.
Edit:spelling
Ninja Scooter
Member
I'm not interested in changing his mind. I'm only interested in letting him know that I think he's a piece of shit. I'm not trying to coddle and carry people towards progress. They can be dragged or left behind (figuratively speaking). The onus is on the ones with the reprehensible views to get their shit together.
They have no obligation to try to change his mind.
This has already been said so many times, but separate the art from the artist etc etc. Its a shame to hear about Kingdom Come actually, but forgive me GAF, buts that's a day one for me. I grew up on being a Medieval buff and loving everything to do with swords and knights and castles... that game is literally a dream come true for ten year old me, I need that in my veins.
Where I do draw the line is when words and beliefs become action, like with Polanski- but even then, I have even come around to even that eventually. I stopped watching his movies for a while but I returned to them some time ago. The old saying is to not talk about politics or religion, and I feel in any artistic medium we should let the art do the talking and as intellectuals discuss the merits of any presented political discourse if it is warranted, all while being able to enjoy a piece of entertainment for what it is.
Where I do draw the line is when words and beliefs become action, like with Polanski- but even then, I have even come around to even that eventually. I stopped watching his movies for a while but I returned to them some time ago. The old saying is to not talk about politics or religion, and I feel in any artistic medium we should let the art do the talking and as intellectuals discuss the merits of any presented political discourse if it is warranted, all while being able to enjoy a piece of entertainment for what it is.
In fantasy fairy unicorn land maybe. Nobody is here to change him, merely judge him.
If he wants to change that is his business.
I got sour news for ya, Jack. Overwork and exploitation are part and parcel with many, many game productions.
how do you persuade someone who won't even entertain the notion of a homosexual relationship within a game
"I am not intrigued by homosexuality nor exploring same sex relations" seems pretty definite.
unknownstranger
Member
Hearing how awful the guy (forgot his name) who made Dungeon Defenders treated his employees made me stop playing it and I still haven't bought the sequel yet. It left me a bit torn because on one hand I still want to support the developers because I really liked the game, but on the other hand, screw that guy.
"Abuse?" The poster is no victim here.
Wow, community burning pizza gif the thread.
OT - I don't think I've ever had a piece of entertainment ruined by a creator's politics, but it does colour my enjoyment of it.
Wagner is probably the best example, and one I imagine has been mentioned a few times too, but but also someone like Carl Orff in 30s Germany, Shostakovic in Soviet Russia are also notable examples where their work was used politically in a bad way.
Re: the oppressed becoming oppressors, history is riddled with it. Failing to recognise it is one of the main reasons so many revolutionary social movements end up in bloodshed and even more violent oppression.
OT - I don't think I've ever had a piece of entertainment ruined by a creator's politics, but it does colour my enjoyment of it.
Wagner is probably the best example, and one I imagine has been mentioned a few times too, but but also someone like Carl Orff in 30s Germany, Shostakovic in Soviet Russia are also notable examples where their work was used politically in a bad way.
Re: the oppressed becoming oppressors, history is riddled with it. Failing to recognise it is one of the main reasons so many revolutionary social movements end up in bloodshed and even more violent oppression.
Zomba13
Member
But he said he doesn't like homosexuals because of "personal reasons" and in the same post says he never said he was Christian and only used that as an example of religion bashing.
Still though, I think it is totally fair to bash someone for hating on gay people, especially when it's because you make the choice and you're not just blindly following an old book. If it is personal and not religious then no one is forcing him to hate homosexuals, no one has convinced him they are sinful and evil he has come to the conclusion himself.
If someone isn't willing to look at LGBT people as actual people and compares the thought of playing as one in a game to playing as a rapist (even if "just" on the scale of "feels icky") then what can you do to convince them? Tell them that they have feelings too? That, surprise surprise, they don't like being seen as monsters? That they are literally the same as him? I'm sure he's heard or read those arguments a bunch before and still chooses to be the way he is. The whole "personal" reason thing could be anything, could be he had a girlfriend who left him for another woman, could be he got hit on by a guy once. Whatever it was I don't see there being a "compassionate" way to convincing him, especially after being on this forum for so long and see countless threads and posts about LGBT issues and how actual, real LGBT Gaffers feel about his kind of attitude.
what'd shostakovich do wrong? i know he was a party member but seemed to me like he was pushing against the restrictions of the party in a lot of ways.
Was actually going to say the same thing (though I will cop to the fact that most of my knowledge of his biography is filtered through Europe Central).
The Hermit
Member
I seriously unaffected unless his vision of the world somewhat spills in the game.
Giftofgab24
Member
Alex Stroud
Banned
None. Don't give a fuuuuuuck about someone's politics. Make a good game and you and your team get my money.
Psychoward
Banned
Ya know besides how stupid this is, Manveer wasn't a recent hire. He's been working on mass effect for years.
Psychoward
Banned
Fuck off.
Psychoward
Banned
I really don't give a shit, I'm done with trying to persuade bigots. If they find me offensive because of my skin color or sexuality there's little hope in convincing them otherwise and they can fuck right off.
Edit: sorry for the triple post
Just my own opinion, why does Sugiyama's beliefs negatively influence your ability to enjoy a game? The old fart can live in denial until his last breath, but nothing he (one man, or any other group in the minority) says or does to deny Japan's war crimes will erase it from the history books. Maybe you shouldn't prioritize something so petty over your own entertainment.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Shadow Complex is probably the first time it became a serious issue.
I had no idea who this guy was... After watching that vid, I really like that guy now. lol
Tye The Czar
Member
Postal 2, if I remember, took GamerGate's side. I have ignored Running With Scissors ever since.
uh....people who share Sugiyama's views like Japan's PM Shinzo Abe are literally trying to erase it from their history books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Society_for_History_Textbook_Reform
Theanine3D
Member
It's hard to come from a more compassionate side when before you've even said a word to the person, the person already sees you as an abomination, an inferior less-than-human, which taints anything you'd ever say to them.
For such people, I have no anger or hatred, nor any desire to attack or hurl insults. I just have immense pity. You'll never get to know me or people like me, because you won't even give us the chance. That's your loss.
He already has his mind set, he will not change his opinion no matter what we do. And it's not our job to teach what we assume are responsible adults to be decent humans beings, that's on them.
EDIT: And that doesn't mean people can't change, I'm an example of that, when I was a teen I was a piece of shit, homophobic and transphobic, and I was until I saw how damaging that kind of mentality can be for everyone in society. Every person who is against LGBT+ rights, even if they're not violent, but just against, help create a culture against people who only want to be safe, to not fear to be hurt or killed just because they're who they're. But HYDE already showed us in this thread that he doesn't want to change.
As others have pointed out you've cunningly omitted all mention of violent slave uprisings, then Included the name Nat Turner....
An uprising so brutal and surprising that the Virginia senate actually debated ending slavery. They historically choose to double down and attempted to mitigate another uprising through laws disallowing literacy and restricting black preachers. You'll see the same counter reactions to violent slave uprisings in the law changes after the 1712 New york uprising that made Property damage, conspiracy to kill, and Rape punishable by death ( the COlonial government actually burned people to death over the uprising and managed to even include one incidence of breaking by wheel). Actual slave uprisings pretty bloody, brutal affairs just by looking at the legal changes enacted after they're over.
The only way your argument makes sense is literally ignoring violent slave uprisings throughout the Americas and having no clue what occurred during Nat Turners rebellion. And how in Turners particular case an uprising so shocking that they Hung, then flayed, beheaded and dismembered him (mob murdered around 200 random blacks).
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
The Witness. More about his views on almost everything. Dude comes off as a douche in most interviews, imo.
I'm aware, but my point is will it actually happen?
toddhunter
Member
That sounds great until Trump wins and changes all the laws. Onus denied.
Shadow complex is a game I avoided like many others. There are just so many other options.
Riposte
Member
I would think Malcom X is a lot less controversial than Nat Turner. What happens in BioShock Infinite is touchy, because examining slave riots (the mass-killing of your oppressors, including children) is touchy, even today. Malcom X didn't even kill anyone. (EDIT: Seems like I was beaten to the punch lol)
As Fuchsdh puts it, we see a good reason why people include fictional races or statuses (with fake slurs, etc.) to craft a world. It creates distance. Not only is the negative reaction to using "fake" racism smaller than including racism in a game that does not want to be a game about racism (see: Vox Populi vs. Scoia'tael), but it's also less alienating or distracting.
I wonder if there are any flat-earther devs.
Wait, why are people likening Fitzroy to MLK or X? To me she seemed more a play on Marxist revolutionaries like Lenin or Guevara.
i can't see the future, but they're certainly trying. when the prime minister is part of that group i would hardly consider that a group being in the minority and certainly wouldn't call prioritizing that over my video games as being petty
Polioliolio
Member
For the most part, it's forgivable.
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean anything they do is worth nothing.
I mean hell, half this country likes Donald Trump.. What's up with that? Believe it or not, people you know, your friend's, family, most of the people at your church, probably support him.. That doesn't mean they don't have other decent qualities, right?
I often think of how many men of science.. The original gangsters of creating the world as we know it, were probably fervent assholes. At least a lot of them seemed to be. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be respected for what they did for science.
So unless the content of the creation reflects the views you disagree with, don't let it get to you.
Really. How many people can you even stand to be in the presence of for more than a few minutes. Most people are intolerable to each other. Surely they can be respected still in some ways.
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean anything they do is worth nothing.
I mean hell, half this country likes Donald Trump.. What's up with that? Believe it or not, people you know, your friend's, family, most of the people at your church, probably support him.. That doesn't mean they don't have other decent qualities, right?
I often think of how many men of science.. The original gangsters of creating the world as we know it, were probably fervent assholes. At least a lot of them seemed to be. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be respected for what they did for science.
So unless the content of the creation reflects the views you disagree with, don't let it get to you.
Really. How many people can you even stand to be in the presence of for more than a few minutes. Most people are intolerable to each other. Surely they can be respected still in some ways.
I mean, would they even have the majority of their player base if they didn't? That game is up there with Hatred and Soldier of Fortune as a game that seems tailor-made for GG.
It baffles me how complicated some people can make this.
Whether you buy it or not, if the game itself isn't actively or implicitly representing ideas you disagree with, why not let yourself enjoy it?
As for purchasing, don't buy a thing if the money is going to support the spread of views you disagree with.
So I totally get not buying Armikrog or even Dragon Quest. But I can't understand not being able to enjoy one of those games even if playing it another way (e.g. playing someone else's copy, Humble Bundle with no money given to that game, etc).
EDIT: not questioning anyone's right to do whatever they want of course. I just really don't understand it.
Whether you buy it or not, if the game itself isn't actively or implicitly representing ideas you disagree with, why not let yourself enjoy it?
As for purchasing, don't buy a thing if the money is going to support the spread of views you disagree with.
So I totally get not buying Armikrog or even Dragon Quest. But I can't understand not being able to enjoy one of those games even if playing it another way (e.g. playing someone else's copy, Humble Bundle with no money given to that game, etc).
EDIT: not questioning anyone's right to do whatever they want of course. I just really don't understand it.
how is not buying their video game disrespecting them
Of course not.
belteshazzar
Member
Holy cow, never knew this. Dude is kinda crazy
Man, I came in expecting to talk about TenNapel, but the direct threats and funding hate groups... If I heard those ones before, I blocked them out. I love Earthworm Jim and the Neverhood, but... Shit.
This is is the one case where I'm kinda fine with a creatorr losing the rights to their work. Now if I ever buy a port/revival, it can be guilt free.
This is is the one case where I'm kinda fine with a creatorr losing the rights to their work. Now if I ever buy a port/revival, it can be guilt free.
charlequin
Banned
This is impossible. Art is innately political.
The writing around that whole sequence is so absurd. Nothing at all about the plotline supports any of the characterization there; it's like he wrote the lead-in to a good story that might tackle some nuanced question of how extreme your behavior in pursuit of a good cause can be, then stopped, made a previously reasonable character suddenly turn into a child murderer, and slapped some ridiculous "both sides... both sides are bad..." moralizing on it.
It isn't! I just told you, what you said isn't bannable at all! It's just something you should be personally ashamed of, because your opinion about this sucks and when you post about it online you're being an asshole.
I've banned probably 50+ people just myself for bigoted or offensive comments about religion. PM a mod when you see it happen instead of complaining in an unrelated thread later on.
Or any actual slave rebellions that took place in North america. You don't have to look outside of the Americas to see slave revolutions with massacres and rape of the former oppressors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre
During February and March, Dessalines traveled among the cities of Haiti to assure himself that his orders were carried out. Despite his orders, the massacres were often not carried out until he actually visited the cities himself.[14]
The course of the massacre showed an almost identical pattern in every city he visited. Before his arrival, there were only a few killings, despite his orders.[20] When Dessalines arrived, he first spoke about the atrocities committed by former white authorities, such as Rochambeau and Leclerc, after which he demanded that his orders about mass killings of the area's white population should be put in effect. Reportedly, he ordered also the unwilling to take part in the killings, especially men of mixed race, so that the blame should not be placed solely on the black population.[21][22] Mass killings then took place on the streets and on places outside the cities. In parallel to the killings, plundering and rape also occurred.[22]
Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death".[22]
Dessalines did not specifically mention that the white women should be killed, and the soldiers were reportedly somewhat hesitant to do so. In the end, however, they were also put to death, though normally at a later stage of the massacre than the adult males.[20] The argument for killing the women was that whites would not truly be eradicated if the white women were spared to give birth to new Frenchmen.[23]
Before his departure from a city, Dessalines would proclaim an amnesty for all the whites who had survived in hiding during the massacre. When these people left their hiding place, however, they were killed as well.[22] Many whites were, however, hidden and smuggled out by sea by foreigners.[22]
In Port-au-Prince, only a few killings had occurred in the city despite the orders, but on the arrival of Dessalines on 18 March, the killings escalated. According to a British captain, about 800 people were killed in the city, while about 50 survived.[22] On 18 April 1804, Dessalines arrived at Cap-Haïtien. Only a handful of killings had taken place there before his arrival, but the killings escalated to a massacre on the streets and outside the city after his arrival.[22]
As elsewhere, the majority of the women were initially not killed. Dessalines's advisers, however, pointed out that the white Haitians would not disappear if the women were left to give birth to white men, and after this, Dessalines gave order that the women should be killed as well, with the exception of those who agreed to marry non-white men.[20] Contemporary sources claim that 3,000 people were killed in Cap-Haïtien, but this is considered unrealistic, as only 1,700 white people remained in the city after the French evacuated.[22][original research?]
One of the most notorious of the massacre participants was Jean Zombi, a mulatto resident of Port-au-Prince who was known for his brutality. One account describes how Zombi stopped a white man on the street, stripped him naked, and took him to the stair of the Presidential Palace, where he killed him with a dagger. Dessalines was reportedly among the spectators; he was said to be "horrified" by the episode.[24] In Haitian Vodou tradition, the figure of Jean Zombi has become a prototype for the zombie.[25]
It also reminds of of the racial undercurrent of 'Zombies'.
for the record, the dlc is called left behind. although both apply to your stance on homosexuality
Polioliolio
Member
I don't know. I don't think I said anything like that.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Does HYDE make games?
captainpat
Member
If Infinite had a more nuanced depiction of the vox populi I could understand but all of them turning into crazed murderers dressed in devil costumes was real stupid.