I feel this needs to be amended to read "post-PS2 Naughty Dog" - though there are those who don't like the direction Jak and Daxter went in after the first.
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Games with mediocre or bad gameplay, but great visuals, music and presentation
- Thread starter MrBadger
- Start date
I feel this needs to be amended to read "post-PS2 Naughty Dog" - though there are those who don't like the direction Jak and Daxter went in after the first.
SlaughterX
Banned
God of War
Ah, agreed. I loved Jak II
TheOhrenberger.
Banned
Average isn't mediocre or bad though. Like the thread specifically says those two words.
It's not just you though, there's so much hyperbole in this thread and games that shouldn't be mentioned here are being mentioned.
digita1alchemy
Member
This is essentially the recipe for most big-budget games that I have tried, where what you actually do in the game takes a backseat to the presentation and the story. The game systems end up being extremely functional but ultimately bland and homogeneous. You can tell that most of these games are designed with a premise as the starting point rather than coming up with a fun mechanic and adding a suitable setting and characters later. Not that either way is right or wrong...but you usually end up with a vastly different final product.
That is precisely what mediocre is.
That is precisely what mediocre is.
"Average at best" and "mediocre" are just about the exact same thing. This might as well be Uncharted the thread if were talking mediocre gameplay with stunning presentation.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Vanillaware games...
Kinda amazed these didn't come up right away in this thread.
I always want to love them, but the gameplay is never satisfying. Even a halfhearted attempt at level design would help, but every time I buy a Vanillaware game I marvel at the visuals for a few hours, get bored with the gameplay, and never pick it up again.
Kinda amazed these didn't come up right away in this thread.
I always want to love them, but the gameplay is never satisfying. Even a halfhearted attempt at level design would help, but every time I buy a Vanillaware game I marvel at the visuals for a few hours, get bored with the gameplay, and never pick it up again.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Every Telltale game? Ok, they don't exactly have amazing visuals, but they are usually pretty well presented with a good story. The gameplay (if you can even call it that), on the other hand, is always just garbage.
The vast majority of gamers and critics would disagree though, and most would be able to detail why they disagree, as for example I did in my post here.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121003366&postcount=179
I'm yet to see a single post actually describing in any form of detail why Uncharted's gameplay is actually bad. Most of the posts stating as much never delve deeper than one liners or vague summaries like "it's boring" "gameplay is just bad". When I quizzed a few on the reasons why earlier in this thread, some of the responses I got were...
- You get to fire a gattling gun, which apparently makes gameplay rubbish.
- The enemies are "faceless", I assume this to mean they have no lasting personality (like the multitudes of enemies in every other game and piece of media).
- You murder too many people (it's a third person shooter?).
Ok fair enough, and that's cool. Can you offer some reasons as to why you feel Uncharted's gameplay is mediocre? Personally I'm a big fan of Uncharted, but I don't think it's perfect, it has it's flaws. But not enough to drag it's gameplay down to mediocre imo, and certainly not down to being 'bad'. Good quality arena design is hard to come by in TPS, and Uncharted still mostly nails this in a way most if not all others in the genre do not, namely with it's added emphaiss on mobility, more cover dynamism and verticality.
Isnt that from Muramasa though ? I thought it had a really satisfying gameplay.
Maybe it gets better in the other games on but I find the Mass Effect(1)'s shooting sections' gameplay really bland.
Even though the game has a pretty decent setting, I just can't get myself to try and get into it again after having played more dynamic shooters.
Well it is clearly functionally sound, but it is just boring to me. That is why I call it mediocre. I played through all three games and didn't have a ton of fun playing any of them. I can't call the gameplay bad though because it clearly isn't.
Mass Effect for example has powers and a party to control. Vanquish is, well it's just fun let's put it that way. Uncharted was a grind for me to get through.
muyricosuave
Member
Thank you glad I'm not tHe only one
Orniletter
Banned
Have to agree.
Uncharted for sure.
I haven´t played TLoU yet though, I´ll approach it with an open mind.
come at me bro
Which contemporaries do you think had better mechanics? (for example, I'd say the obvious timeline system for Grandia II was a more interesting battle system).
No idea. I played very little 3D JRPG of that era since they were so much slower than their 2D predecessors.
B.S. Persona 4 is an excellent date/school life simulator.
quickwhips
Member
Any game almost published by Sony in the last 4 years 
Everything looks so good but playing it is meh for me I blame psnow.
Everything looks so good but playing it is meh for me I blame psnow.ForsakenLotus
Member
Because Uncharted's gameplay isn't bad or mediocre. More than any other genre, shooters (especially Third Person Shooters) suffer from hyperbole. If a game doesn't have excellent gun mechanics and excellent level design, to many it means the game is bad or mediocre. It's ludicrous. Uncharted has good gameplay. The guns vary from decent to a few that feel really good. The enemy encounters are a mixed bag of waves of enemies (not good) to great level design that is fairly unique (very good).
Whenever somebody says something like Uncharted has bad gameplay, I'd like them to play some games with actually bad gameplay. There is such a thing as middle ground.
TLoU is infinitely more better than Uncharted. I'd say to make sure to put it on the highest difficulty available. At least with TLoU bullet sponges go away.
Uncharted gameplay is especially bad when you've already played Gears of War(which i played first than UC1), the differences and the feel made UC gunplay archaic
Any game almost published by Sony in the last 4 years
Okay, I'll bite.
WHAT
Yeah I'd go with Naughty Dog's stuff lately.
They're pretty damn great on a technical level, but I found the Uncharted series and The Last of Us boring. Although I'd also argue that The Last of Us really doesn't have very likable characters or that good of a story, but that's just me.
They're pretty damn great on a technical level, but I found the Uncharted series and The Last of Us boring. Although I'd also argue that The Last of Us really doesn't have very likable characters or that good of a story, but that's just me.
bobawesome
Member
It pains me to agree with you about Muramasa. I loved the game for the first few hours but it's just the same thing over and over...and over. Beautiful game, though.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Legend of Mana is super handsome and has a sweet soundtrack from Yoko Shimomura. It's really janky, though. Obtuse overworld mechanics, bad combat, poor multiplayer alternative compared to its predecessors. The first bad Mana game--a series that continues to get worse.
Hold on.
You tell people to look up the definition of mediocre, which is average or middle of the road.
You then describe something that is average or middle of the road, and say that isn't the definition.
Seems like you're getting lost in semantics, and perhaps a pejorative take on mediocre which is like 10% valid, so I'll give you that at least
Alice Madness Returns. The platforming is way too floaty to be fun, and the levels go on way too long.
Enslaved also is not very fun to play. Mostly just auto-platforming and simple "stealth" and combat.
Bastion also comes to mind.
I still like these games because of the great presentation, but they're kind of boring to play.
Wow. Forgot about those games. Yeah, I'd agree with these too.
Enslaved also is not very fun to play. Mostly just auto-platforming and simple "stealth" and combat.
Bastion also comes to mind.
I still like these games because of the great presentation, but they're kind of boring to play.
Wow. Forgot about those games. Yeah, I'd agree with these too.
Like you, I really enjoy the Uncharted series and think that the gameplay is much better than people give it credit for. However, I do feel that I can hypothesize why people call it "boring".
You would agree that the main draw of the Uncharted series is the "spectacle" of it all. Encounter design (which includes set pieces and level design) was prioritized before every other aspect. While it is visually appealing, I can empathize with those that weren't entertained by big action moments. When you remove level design from the equation, you're left with the gunplay, which I feel can feel pretty unsatisfying and has plenty of room for improvement. Here are a few examples:
Visual/audial feedback: People often overlook this, but this has the biggest impact on how a gun "feels". The sound of a revolver firing, coupled with the enemy reacting to being shot by it, can be super satisfying or anti-climactic based on how it's implemented. Gears of War does a fantastic job in this department, and thus is why a previous poster in this thread called it "visceral". Even the Lancer, which is the weakest gun of the game (I think, I haven't played the game in a while), is still amazing to use because every shot you land on an enemy has them flinching and spewing blood while they're running towards you. Also, the Gnasher is still one of my favorite guns because of how your enemy gets reduced to gibs up close. On the contrast, I feel that Uncharted's feedback is fairly lacking. Yes, enemies fall back hard when you shoot them with a Desert Eagle or Druganov, but it still feels very unsubstantial. I know they're not going for gore, but ND has to find a way to make it more satisfying. They made huge improvements in this front in Last of Us (especially the revolver, I freaking love that gun), so I'm hoping that it continues to improve in Uncharted 4.
Bullet sponges: I think this is pretty self explanatory. Engaging 3 enemies by yourself that requires 20 well-placed shots each to put down is fun for no one. These practices cause the game to turn into a cover shooter. Rather, enemies that are more vulnerable but smarter by taking cover and flanking you when the opportunity arises are much more fun to engage, as well as challenging. You see remnants of this in the TLOU as well.
Variety in abilities: This might be the hardest part to improve since it is intertwined with the level design. In each of the Uncharted games, you have a primary, secondary, grenade, melee, stealth takedowns and the ability to traverse/take cover. That's pretty much it. Personally, I think those are plenty of tools for me to enjoy the combat, I'm sure there are plenty of people believe that it is pretty shallow. Vanquish, for example, introduced a sliding mechanic that revamps traversal in third person shooters, which is why it's considered innovative. Honestly, I can't really think of a great way to improve on this without turning Uncharted into a completely different game. Maybe they could follow a similar approach to Max Payne 3 and put a focus on picking up weapons from enemies? I don't know.
Those are the reasons that I could think of off the top of my head. But, that being said, I do think that Uncharted's level design during combat is vastly underrated. It's essentially a playground where you're playing tag with guns. I do think ND is on the right track with improving the combat mechanics themselves (see TLOU, which I could write an essay on why it's my favorite game of last gen, and possibly of all time).
My personal request would be that they take more of a page of the classic Tomb Raider games and place more focus on atmosphere and environmental puzzles. I always thought that some of the puzzles in Uncharted were very clever, even though they were pretty easy. A ratio of 60% combat / 40% puzzles would be the sweetspot in my opinion.
Typing this hurts me physically, but I understand that there are godless heathens gamers who do not derive pleasure from a good on rails shooter, claiming that all you do is pres butan get bacon.
Hence: Rez.
Mediocre (hrng) gameplay, offset by outstanding graphics/art style and sublime OST, adding up to far more than the sum of its parts.
Hence: Rez.
Mediocre (hrng) gameplay, offset by outstanding graphics/art style and sublime OST, adding up to far more than the sum of its parts.
OK, I'll admit it, this is my semi-annual Rez post. Gotta meet the quota somehow.
Sanctuary
Member
I did not care for most of their games, but Dragon's Crown was fun as hell for a few solid weeks.
JJDinomite
Banned
The Last of Us
Night_Trekker
Member
I fucking love Fragile Dreams. No problem with the controls, either. I mean, they're not the most awesomely responsive controls ever, but they work fine.
Terrible controls, but I love the concept.
If you played the GameCube version and you think the controls were "terrible," I don't know what to tell you. You might not like the game design choices, but it controls well.
PS2 port, I won't vouch for. I've heard very bad things.
Lucidforest
Neo Member
I was gonna say The Bouncer. But someone beat me to it.