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Gaming on smartphones: Can any dedicated handheld really compete?
- Thread starter capslock
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BladeoftheImmortal
Member
well there is this (and other pads like this)
Take Most Wanted for Example, it pales in comparison to the VITA outing. It's an auto-go plus touch for nitrous linear racer, that looks about as half as good as the VITA open-world racer.
That's why I buy a damn handheld.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
I very much dislike touch based gaming. It's inaccurate and frustrating to me, like motion controls.
Dedicated handhelds have nothing to fear until Apple sticks a little D-pad and some face buttons on the iPhone.
Dedicated handhelds have nothing to fear until Apple sticks a little D-pad and some face buttons on the iPhone.
Distractionware: that's a great word. I see mobile games being like the YouTube videos of entertainment.. you may click on a link because someone said it was funny and then you close it after 15 seconds. Even the "better" phone games that get mentioned are no more than the equivalent of reality TV shows, full of ads and non-crafted ideas.
I'll stick with the game equivalents of HBO, Showtime & AMC .. crafted premium experiences worth paying for. My game time is precious and I will always filter the best experiences first.
Ugh, people who use games like Most Wanted and Uncharted as a reason against phone games without considering the unique offerings made possible by the touch screen and ease of entry for low budget devs just miss the point entirely.
Christberg
Member
Compete? Handhelds dump on smartphones for gaming from a tremendous height. They're great rich communication devices and I can't live without mine any more. I enjoy the occasional game on my smartphone but it's all tiny simple stuff, nothing like Fire Emblem or Luigi's Mansion. Not even close.
How so? If they're looking for those kind of games, and are being asked if handheld games can even compete with smartphone games, their answer is completely reasonable.
Nothing wrong with those kind of casual gamers who only want big budget titles but my point is that iOS games compete on a different level and they can happily co-exist for us gamers with broader tastes.
Quadrangulum
Banned
The evidence suggests that the market is good for, at least, another generation of dedicated handhelds. It's purely wishful thinking to believe otherwise. Being outnumbered is not relevant to the nature of the outcome.
Nocturno999
Member
Smartphones do a better job as a handheld gaming system not to mention the versatility and greater portability (size/battery life) they provide.
I trade portability over shiny graphics but even then, smartphones are getting dangerously close to what Vita and 3DS offer.
I trade portability over shiny graphics but even then, smartphones are getting dangerously close to what Vita and 3DS offer.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Yea. But the thread is about how can handhelds compete? Simply by offering experiences that phones cannot. People talk about those cradles, like they'll put phones and handhelds on parity, but really the games that even require more than a simple touchscreen press pale in comparison even with buttons.
I want my console experiences and my one tap games. Vita gives me both.
Yes. There is no competition. We need better inputs. I need precision when gaming and the only way to get a decent action game on these damn touchscreens is to revolve your gameplay around a single button a la Canabalt or Jetpack Joyride.
I don't really see a reasonable input solution either with how fast the mobile market moves. Sorry OP, this thread premise isn't well thought out.
I don't really see a reasonable input solution either with how fast the mobile market moves. Sorry OP, this thread premise isn't well thought out.
I agree with this, minus your obvious goading. I agree with it many pages ago. A lot of people don't see it this way apparently because we keep having these threads.
You don't need to like touch screen controls to be a gamer either.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Another thing. Xcom would never have been made for mobiles if it hadn't started somewhere else first. what are the biggest budgets for mobile games? I'm guessing Gameloft games. And when put next to the games they are trying to rip on. They pale in comparison anyways.
ROI just isn't big enough on mobiles still, to justify putting much thought or money into a game. The biggest money makers are the tiny ones with low budgets or ports. Not ground up games.
If handhelds are replaced. Those bigger games go with it.
Unless the prices for these smartphone games are raised. I don't doubt they iPhone could handle bigger, more content heavy games at all. It's a matter of whether or not you think that audience exists in the smartphone market.
Man, I missed this gem.
No, it's about the types of games one can make. You're not going to make an intense platformer akin to Mega Man or Mario on a handheld well, even if an RPG can be made well enough, and vice versa who'd want to play Angry Birds with only a D-Pad and buttons (leaving Analog out because that can make a shocking amount of sense)? And it continues on with PC, there's games that are just better with kb/m while some should be played with a controller. But I think of those three touch screens can have the least potential for variety, at least far less than kb/m given a mouse does the same thing with more precision (but no multitouch).
This.
But many other things too.
I have a Galaxy S2 and my phone, sometimes, freeze with games like Kairosoft ones... KAIROSOFT ONES!!!
Quality of games is far superior on handhelds, no doubt about it.
Price... I can buy a Vita and a 3DS for the price of a Galaxy S4... and in fact, both handhels are cheaper than a smartphone like that (at least here in Chile).
Heat. Smartphones are not design for playing for a long time... at least you play with gloves.
I love my smartphone... but not for playing so much actually.
Petrae
Member
While I think that there will continue to be a market for handhelds, I'm no longer convinced that I need one thanks to what my iPhone provides me.
It provides a fair amount of gaming enjoyment while also being my texting device, my e-mail device, my web browsing device, my phone, and my camera. I don't have a perceived need to drop $170 (or $300) on a dedicated handheld. The cheap games-- and a fair amount of free ones-- don't leave me at a loss of games to play while I'm in the car, on the bus, or before bed. What's more, pinball is represented as well on iOS than it is for Vita and easily better than 3DS.
Core gaming consumers will still show interest in dedicated handhelds, but I can understand and identify with other consumers who find mobile a decent enough experience that doesn't require spending a small fortune on another device and having to carry it around just to play games on.
Both can coexist, but the market for dedicated handhelds will continue to contract while mobile continues to expand.
It provides a fair amount of gaming enjoyment while also being my texting device, my e-mail device, my web browsing device, my phone, and my camera. I don't have a perceived need to drop $170 (or $300) on a dedicated handheld. The cheap games-- and a fair amount of free ones-- don't leave me at a loss of games to play while I'm in the car, on the bus, or before bed. What's more, pinball is represented as well on iOS than it is for Vita and easily better than 3DS.
Core gaming consumers will still show interest in dedicated handhelds, but I can understand and identify with other consumers who find mobile a decent enough experience that doesn't require spending a small fortune on another device and having to carry it around just to play games on.
Both can coexist, but the market for dedicated handhelds will continue to contract while mobile continues to expand.
Oneironaut
Neo Member
I wish smartphone gaming were decent. They already have to power to emulate N64 and PS1 games, and there are dozens of accessories for adding a decent controller to your phone. They just need the games.
I would gladly buy a device that was a gaming system first and a phone/web browsing device second, but I don't want to carry around two devices when my phone already does so much of what I want.
I would gladly buy a device that was a gaming system first and a phone/web browsing device second, but I don't want to carry around two devices when my phone already does so much of what I want.
Christberg
Member
XCom isn't really my cup of tea. That's cool that it's coming to smartphones but it doesn't make it not likely to be best on PC. Touchscreen would work fine but it still neuters UI options regardless.
That's the thing with all these retro PC ports-neat stuff but BS aside I'd still rather play these games during long sessions with a keyboard/mouse setup over a touch screen in bite size increments. And the cost is frequently an issue over getting them off GOG anyway.
But why compromise the experience ? Isn't your time worth the best experience you can find ? No one ever says "Oh this canned spice ham is good enough." when they want steak. Why do people pick through all the vegetable and fruit to find the best ones?
I just don't understand why people are willing to settle for their videogames. Back in 1985, I wanted Super Mario Bros, it was the best game out there to me, no matter the cost. There were piles of Atari 2600 cartridges in bins for $1-$5 dollars and nobody wanted them then.. now it seems like "Oh it's cheap !" is more important that what you are receiving.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I just can't play traditional stuff without buttons. I've tried, but aside from games specifically made for phones like Angry Birds, I can't do it.
Petrae
Member
It's a matter of money, really. My device already provides a decent-- not perfect-- experience. Yes, I *could* spend an additional $170 plus $35 per game, but I'm content with saving that money and putting it towards cheaper games and other expenditures. And, if I'm talking about my pinball hobby, I'd have to get a Vita, which is much more expensive.
There's not enough of a difference between the games that I'm playing on iOS now and what I'd be playing if I bought and carried a second device.
As for other casual consumers, it's very much a "good enough" experience. No longer do they need to spend money on additional hardware and carry around a second device. Angry Birds is mobile. Tetris is mobile. Bejeweled is mobile. And more wide-reaching gaming content is coming all the time. I can very much understand why handhelds aren't the draw they once were. Mobile devices have scored convergence-- not necessarily a master of some trades but a solid performer of many, all on one device.
chickdigger802
Banned
if we talking money. How many 3ds games are there that are 40x better than angry birds????????
publicpwnerer
Member
The notion that a dedicated handheld is a ripoff, when you can already play games $1-5 on your phone is purely from the casual gamers perspective.
I believe that when the time comes, Japan could single-handedly keep dedicated handhelds alive. Pokemon, Monster Hunter, the copious amounts of JRPG's.
Portugeezer
Member
It can't compete because dedicated handhelds are in a higher league.
AranhaHunter
Banned
No.
Wish Apple, Sony, or someone else would do a bigger push with an add on accessory like this....
well there is this (and other pads like this)
Wish Apple, Sony, or someone else would do a bigger push with an add on accessory like this....
SpaceBridge
Member
Yeah, I'll use my iPhone to make calls, text, post shirless selfies on instagram and cruise dudes on Grindr.
I'll play quality games with proper controls on my dedicated handhelds. Majority be damned.
I'll play quality games with proper controls on my dedicated handhelds. Majority be damned.
Petrae
Member
I agree with this. Even as the handheld market contracts in the West, there's still a thriving handheld market in Japan and at least Nintendo will continue to take advantage of this.
Much like we'll see with contraction in the console market this gen as the Wii/casual set leaves, the rise of mobile viability as video game entertainment (as well as other functionality) means contraction-- not collapse-- of handheld market. Core will stay as mobile experience not quite the same, but for significant casual set, mobile gaming is more than good enough. And cheaper.
Bingo. I also think a lot of people enamored with smartphone gaming never really were interested in portable gaming prior to owning the smartphone. The quality just isn't as good on a smartphone compared to the dedicated device.
WAR recon zero
Banned
only handheld i love is vita. uncharted man!
If you're going to do that why not just get a dedicated portable?
As a long time gamer, I never got the fascination with portable games outside of Nintendo DS. And only because of the DS Castlevania games and Phoenix Wright, which I would totally have played on console. Tablets are the new arcades/quarter muchers in a sense.
Handhelds were always kind of the red headed step child. Why spend the money when you can better serve yourself with a console?
Handhelds were always kind of the red headed step child. Why spend the money when you can better serve yourself with a console?
Bravely Default is possible but only because it is a port. Call me when a game of the quality of TWEWY or BD is built ground up and only for iOS. The app store model hasn't shown it can support full priced traditional original games, at least not yet.
I play free Vita games with the full experience.
PaulExcellent
Member
I like your avatar, and agree with your statement.
The mobile market is pretty much a portable arcade with the IAP concept.
Mr_Appleby
Member
well the thread title is not "can we all play happy families", in case you hadn't noticed.
Me personally, I actually don't believe that they are the same market. Sure there is cross-over, but the barrier of entry is a lot higher for a dedicated device: and that's a good thing because it means you can make some assumptions about the customer ie. that they are likely willing to pay $40 for, for want of a better word, a richer gameplay experience.
When your console is in millions of peoples pockets practically by default, you can't make these assumptions and if you want to sell well you have to not only target an incredibly broad spectrum of players (who are used to paying .99c a title) but also compete in a viciously crowded market that thrives on one-hit-wonders and trend-of-the-week titles. (a surprising downside to the ease and rapidity of development)
Wierdly I think smartphones would be a great platform for turn based RPG's like Etrian Odyssey, but I've yet to see decent anything there. Probably because being so niche and yet still (relatively) expensive to make- 10,000 sales on 3DS is worth a hell of a lot more than 10,000 sales on the iphone. So in a way smartphone gaming discourages niche genres like that by ruining the returns.
Anyway all I know is I have a bunch of games on my phone/tablet and never play any of them. I did however buy a 3DS solely for monster hunter and i'm happy as a pig in shit about that.
Wiktor
Member
I look at handhelds as a gateway to golden age of japanese game development, as those devs, while stumbling on home consoles, are also delivering in spades on handhelds. I like my iPhone 5, but it doesn't really scratch that itch when it comes to more serious gaming for me. Heck, even if the game is on multipe platforms I prefer to play it on PC than on tablet/phone.
Most phone games are fun for bit-sized gaming. Luckily we're getting some very nice games from big publishers, and I can only hope that continues. Oh and I need better battery life for my phone too. Dies too fast!
Wont ever replace a dedicated handheld though.
Edit: For me anyways.
Wont ever replace a dedicated handheld though.
Edit: For me anyways.
Wiktor
Member
As more developers move into that market it will become harder and harder to make a living there. I don't see any way for most handheld devs to survive on mobile market doing the kind of games they are known for. Soon, the only titles you will be able to find on smarthones are freemium titles. Exceptions from this will be very rare and they will be mostly a simplistic ones with 99cents price tag
Am I really reading this. Here of all places.
So a long time gamer, you never got the fascination with portable games outside of the portable consoles you liked and only because of the portable games you liked.
That's some revelatory shit man.
I agree with you about kids and casuals, but 16-35? That's a huge bracket. How is the 'focus' now on home consoles more than ever? The focus was still on the NES and Megadrive when the GameBoy came out, and the GBA did fine when the PS2 ruled the market, with the 3DS heading along similar lines. The DS and PSP weren't exactly the focus compared to the huge total sales of Wiii/360/PS3 either, so I just don't agree with this line of thought.
I think what we are seeing is the handheld market settling back to GBA levels as it loses the casual gamers it gained with the DS to smartphones, and that's OK. It doesn't need to be a binary thing where mobile games equal no more handhelds, there is clearly a profit to be made by selling to people who still actually pay more than a pound for games, it's all good.
kobashi100
Banned
last download was Luigi's Mansion 2 on 3DS.
Gonna download Fire Emblem on 3DS next week. If anyone can name me some smartphone games that match the quality of these two please go ahead.
Gonna download Fire Emblem on 3DS next week. If anyone can name me some smartphone games that match the quality of these two please go ahead.