• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gearbox Artist trashes Dragon’s Crown art style

C

Cyrano

Member
Again guys, attack arguments or criticize creations. Attacking people doesn't typically contribute much to an argument (and kinda makes you look like a jerk).
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
She is most certainly entitled to her opinion. The fact that she's part of the team who has made one if the ugliest and most boring games of the generation really doesn't have an effect on the validity of her dislike for the art. It's good to hear more female opinions on this matter.

In case this comes across as trolling, I'm perfectly serious about everything I just said.
 
Turk

Turk

Member
Hope Gearbox doesn't do anything stupid. She should have the right to express an opinion without fear of loosing her job.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
DigitalOp said:
So attacking another game is your next best bet?

Only you can provide the change you wish to seek. If she was so appalled by this thing then she would try her best to work her way through her company itself to stop them from doing pretty much the exact same thing! Hell, even get GAF involved, Im sure they'd provide plenty of support.

The issue isn't who has the right to criticize what. We all need to drop that shit. Way off subject.

The "Issue" persay is the perspective of all this. Why is it for some games to portray this style of exaggurated character design but other games seemingly get a pass?

All these noble causes suffer from picking and choosing. If you're going to fight a battle, be prepared to fight it on all sides.

Where is the uniformity of the matter?? The hypocrisy of the arugment defeats it before it can even be taken serious.
Click to expand...

You can't seriously think the Sorceress and Borderlands characters are on the same level of distortion and exaggeration? Nobody in BL is grotesque in how exaggerated they are, more or less they have realistic proportions or only slightly exaggerated ones.

Her making the comment is no different than you or I saying "lol that's ridiculous"
In fact that was my reaction seeing the art of the game "this is kind of moving past exaggerated and getting kind of gross"

antitrop said:
It's more about how tactlessly she said it.

Her comment reads nothing more than the average forum comment itself, which someone who actually works in the industry should be trying to avoid.
Click to expand...

Having followed her art since the lowly days of making knives for Spy in Team Fortress 2, this is just how she criticizes and posts. Very blunt and opinionated.
 
Pyrrhus

Pyrrhus

Member
This is not a commensurate reaction, guys. Hell, I'm on Kamitani's side, but this is too much vitriol. Separate this one person's opinion from all of the other related bullshit of the last couple of weeks. She's not responsible for the Schreier article or the endless, fruitless women in games threads. Pick your battles.
 
H

Hachimaki

Member
She calls out the artwork for Dragon's Crow to be juvenile then goes and designs this?

2708728E7567AB3457538448E6D4BCFBCDD0E7D0


I think the outfit is pretty and unique for Mirana and I have no issue with it, but really just contradicts all her comments.
 
F

faceless007

Member
DigitalOp said:
The "Issue" persay is the perspective of all this. Why is it not OK for some games to portray this style of exaggerated character design but other games seemingly get a pass?

All these noble causes suffer from picking and choosing. If you're going to fight a battle, be prepared to fight it on all sides.

Where is the uniformity of the matter?? The hypocrisy of the arugment defeats it before it can even be taken serious.
Click to expand...

I want you to realize the standard you (and most of this thread) are holding this person to.

Think about some general aspect of games you really don't like. Nonsensical plots, overly streamlined controls, abundance of brown/gray, whatever, pick some trend or feature that's appeared in multiple games that, as a rule, you think worthy of criticism.

Now ask yourself, have you identified every single title in the world that's guilty of that thing you don't like, and gone on the record somewhere on the Internet criticizing every single one of them? If it's a nonsensical plot, have you criticized every single game with a nonsensical plot? If it's overly streamlined controls, have you criticized every single game with overly streamlined controls? Whatever X is, is there a post somewhere on the Internet by you criticizing every single game with X?

Or have you picked and chosen the specific titles exhibiting that thing to complain about based on intangible factors such as the ones you've heard about, the ones you think are particularly egregious, how much time you have, which threads you happen to click on, etc.?
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Chrissakes, we've got more threads about opinions about Dragon's Crown than we have for new console reveals.

Hey folks trying to 'discuss the issue', you know what's a good way to get people to lose interest in discussing the issue? Making them totally sick of hearing about the issue.
 
C

CookTrain

Member
faceless007 said:
I want you to realize the standard you (and most of this thread) are holding this person to.

Think about some general aspect of games you really don't like. Nonsensical plots, overly streamlined controls, abundance of brown/gray, whatever, pick some trend or feature that's appeared in multiple games that, as a rule, you think worthy of criticism.

Now ask yourself, have you identified every single title in the world that's guilty of that thing you don't like, and gone on the record somewhere on the Internet criticizing every single one of them? If it's a nonsensical plot, have you criticized every single game with a nonsensical plot? If it's overly streamlined controls, have you criticized every single game with overly streamlined controls? Whatever X is, is there a post somewhere on the Internet by you criticizing every single game with X?

Or have you picked and chosen the specific titles exhibiting that thing to complain about based on intangible factors such as the ones you've heard about, the ones you think are particularly egregious, how much time you have, which threads you happen to click on, etc.?
Click to expand...

I've yet to submit myself for employ at a place that practices against what I preach, if that helps :p

Of course you don't have to unilaterally attack every example of a phenomenon to be able to criticise a singular example of it. I don't know that anyone is suggesting that. The big hang up most are having is that when you point to Dragon's Crown as crass and immature against a backdrop of Borderlands and DNF... it's downright weird.
 
H

HappyHunting

Neo Member
Fine Ham Abounds said:
She is most certainly entitled to her opinion. The fact that she's part of the team who has made one if the ugliest and most boring games of the generation really doesn't have an effect on the validity of her dislike for the art. It's good to hear more female opinions on this matter.

In case this comes across as trolling, I'm perfectly serious about everything I just said.
Click to expand...

I would prefer hearing people's opinions on the matter that weren't defamatory.
 
C

Cyrano

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
You can't seriously think the Sorceress and Borderlands characters are on the same level of distortion and exaggeration? Nobody in BL is grotesque in how exaggerated they are, more or less they have realistic proportions or only slightly exaggerated ones.

Her making the comment is no different than you or I saying "lol that's ridiculous"
In fact that was my reaction seeing the art of the game "this is kind of moving past exaggerated and getting kind of gross"
Click to expand...
They aren't overexaggerated as Kamitani's styles are prone to, but the styles in Borderlands are certainly fetishized (and the same is true of Kamitani's styles). It's unfair to compare the two, given that the contribution and results are unequal (3D art and 2D art are quite different, just to start out), but what's more, what's being missed here doesn't relate to subjects nearly so much as their objectification. Which has to do with context, and given that there isn't a great deal of context, such judgments are difficult and far more nuanced than a conversation here is likely to delve into.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
Metrotab said:
I don't think the debacle about Dragon's Crown's character design has in any way been beneficial to the debate about sexism in video games. I'd rather have people be silent than completely missing the mark and overreaching because there are big tits involved.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's been detrimental I think. You can debate about sexism but when you start attacking people that don't see it the same way as you and you do it on a more personal level that harms your cause.
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
faceless007 said:
I want you to realize the standard you (and most of this thread) are holding this person to.

Think about some general aspect of games you really don't like. Nonsensical plots, overly streamlined controls, abundance of brown/gray, whatever, pick some trend or feature that's appeared in multiple games that, as a rule, you think worthy of criticism.

Now ask yourself, have you identified every single title in the world that's guilty of that thing you don't like, and gone on the record somewhere on the Internet criticizing every single one of them? If it's a nonsensical plot, have you criticized every single game with a nonsensical plot? If it's overly streamlined controls, have you criticized every single game with overly streamlined controls? Whatever X is, is there a post somewhere on the Internet by you criticizing every single game with X?

Or have you picked and chosen the specific titles exhibiting that thing to complain about based on intangible factors such as the ones
you've heard about, the ones you think are particularly egregious, how much time you have, which threads you happen to click on, etc.?
Click to expand...
I don't make money working at a company that does the same exact things that I criticize.

If a designer at Epic started mocking how bad the story in Tomb Raider was everyone would point at him and go "Hey, the Gears plots aren't exactly the second coming of Orwell either buddy."

You know, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and all that.
 
sublimit

sublimit

Banned
Weltall Zero said:
How can you get tired of 2D games when they now represent like 5% or less of all retail games? o_O It must have royally sucked for you to live in the 80's and early 90's.
Click to expand...

5%?If you look at PSN/XBLA and handheld games i'm sure the percentage would be much bigger.
And it was ok at that time because there were no 3D games back then...but we are in 2013 right now.My expectations for games are a bit higher than they were in the 80's and early nineties.

I'm not saying i'm against ALL 2D games though.There are some that i enjoyed very much this gen like A Shadow's Tale for example.:)
 
T

thesolidshark

Member
Had to let my bias against Gearbox go for a second to comment on this. Like most others, wish she could've articulated her displeasure with the DC art better than that. The fifth grader and incarceration comment took it a little too far for me. For someone in her position, I would've hoped to hear more about what exactly she didn't like about DCs/the Sorceress's art, maybe mention what she does like. I know she wasn't formally interviewed or anything, but it's maybe the closest industry person we've had speaking about it outside of Kotaku and the DC artist himself.

She really doesn't represent Gearbox as any bigger than herself, but with the art of Gearbox's own game, and their recent controversies, I'm not surprised those comparisons are coming.

Personally, her own art seems rather unappealing if I put it against DC's honestly. Maybe cause I've seen Sorceress, Elf, and Amazon in motion, but yeah, her art gets a meh from me.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Knux-Future said:
calling someone a 5th grader isn't exactly just criticism.

Plus the hypocracy due to her employer (not that it matters).
Click to expand...
This is the issue so far all I seen in the Dragon Crown devs getting petty insults.

You can criticize the art that is fine but so far people have been acting childish on the issue.
 
A

antitrop

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
You can't seriously think the Sorceress and Borderlands characters are on the same level of distortion and exaggeration? Nobody in BL is grotesque in how exaggerated they are, more or less they have realistic proportions or only slightly exaggerated ones.
Click to expand...

I don't even feel like I need to post an image from Borderlands to prove you wrong. Anyone could Google search one in 30 seconds if they wanted to.

Your comment has me questioning if you actually played either of the Borderlands games.
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
"Professionalism" is such a stupid concept. I really wish people would stop freaking out whenever developers say something other than stuff run through a PR filter, even if it just makes them look silly as seen here.
 
D

DigitalOp

Banned
faceless007 said:
I want you to realize the standard you (and most of this thread) are holding this person to.

Think about some general aspect of games you really don't like. Nonsensical plots, overly streamlined controls, abundance of brown/gray, whatever, pick some trend or feature that's appeared in multiple games that, as a rule, you think worthy of criticism.

Now ask yourself, have you identified every single title in the world that's guilty of that thing you don't like, and gone on the record somewhere on the Internet criticizing every single one of them? If it's a nonsensical plot, have you criticized every single game with a nonsensical plot? If it's overly streamlined controls, have you criticized every single game with overly streamlined controls? Whatever X is, is there a post somewhere on the Internet by you criticizing every single game with X?

Or have you picked and chosen the specific titles exhibiting that thing to complain about based on intangible factors such as the ones you've heard about, the ones you think are particularly egregious, how much time you have, which threads you happen to click on, etc.?
Click to expand...

I may not have the chance to voice my opinion on everything I see, But trust

I do not ignore that the issue isn't there. I look at the overall context of it.

Yeah CoD is brown and gray but it takes place in ficitonal middle east... Of course its gonna be brown and gray

Yeah the Wii streamlined controls in games to hell and back, but that was so I could actually sit down and literally play a video game together with my grandmother as P2 (She loves Galaxy and Metroid Prime!!!)

Yeah, Dragon's Crown has some serious sexual pandering going on but when you look at the bigger picture, The ENTIRE game's art design is exaggerated Every single character. This argument is worth its weight in gold if everybody was designed normallly except the sorceress.

Call it what you want but you can't fire at one and pass the other. Nobody has been this outraged at Dead or Alive and the women in that game have been tits since Day 1


Where the hell was the Women Video Game Sexualization Task Force when this game came out?
250px-Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_2_Xbox_Game_Cover.jpg
Click to expand...

Here is a Google Images link to the game. (CAUTION: NSFW)

If nobody isn't going to call bullshit on that, Then drop your sword and get some perspective.

Im not saying this isn't an issue. Im saying if you want to actually make a difference, everyone should be held accoutable. EVERYONE
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
First of all, Gearbox has gigantic breasted females to hang with the best of them. It's no better or different. Borderlands games are among the most stupid and juvenile games out there.

Second of all, unlike Vanillaware, Gearbox has never made anything beautiful or even good looking.
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Somebody getting worked up over art style? Seriously so now people who like to draw exaggerated features are going to be persecuted. Look at the males in the game. It's not like the artist for Dragon's Crown discriminated.
 
N

NoirVisage

Banned
Akkad said:
Fuck Kotaku for making this an issue, buncha of low life hacks.
Click to expand...
They lost ALL goodwill they had from me, I don't mind not liking the style, or feeling its too sexy.. but wow at the attempt to make this a crusade. Lets not even talk about Mrs. Glasshouse over here.

outunderthestars said:
I would say the number and size of the threads we have had on the matter would imply that is an issue.



What the fuck?
Click to expand...
we hardly knew thee :(
 
B

BRocknRolla

Member
Metrotab said:
I don't think the debacle about Dragon's Crown's character design has in any way been beneficial to the debate about sexism in video games. I'd rather have people be silent than completely missing the mark and overreaching because there are big tits involved.
Click to expand...

On one hand, I agree. I don't think people making thoughtless comments on both sides of the topic that amount to, "You're a child!" and "There is no controversy! Everyone shut up!" leads to anything in the way of a productive conversation.

On the other hand, I think Kotaku, and anyone else for that matter, has the right to call out something they see as juvenile or bad for the industry. A lot of folks on these forums and elsewhere seem to think anything amounting to any kind of controversy on sensitive topics like sexism is inherently a bad topic and should be shunned. It may be too much to ask for reasoned conversation, but I think there is room for it even here.
 
K

Kade

Member
ari said:
other studios can't criticize other studios without gaming boards jumping on them? Fuck the internet.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between "This is shit!" and "This is shit and here's why! Here are a couple of solutions that may or may not remedy the problem but I want it to be known that I am committed to being a player in the fixing of this problem and not just a bystander who will make unnecessary remarks about how bad the problem is with no intent of doing anything about it!"

If you're on the receiving end of the criticism you probably want the latter.

Broburger said:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-tBVEmTRrIwk/TwH86YnIbrI/AAAAAAAAAe8/mwc_Q5KecGs/jacket.jpg

As you can see it's pretty obvious why she's so upset
Click to expand...

Get the fuck out of here with this shit.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Broburger said:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-tBVEmTRrIwk/TwH86YnIbrI/AAAAAAAAAe8/mwc_Q5KecGs/jacket.jpg[IMG]

As you can see it's pretty obvious why she's so upset[/QUOTE]

Are you trying to say she's unattractive? Because I don't see that as the case, even if it had any relevance to the argument.
Click to expand...
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Though I agree with her, I actually despise Dragon's Crown artwork because it simply looks stupid and way too exaggerated, it's coming from a Gearbox employee and I can't really say I respect Gearbox now...

Broburger said:
jacket.jpg


As you can see it's pretty obvious why she's so upset
Click to expand...

Not cool dude, you should've realized by now what did was not right.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
Time for this fabricated story to reach a new level of stupid now that some idiot decided to be a dick on Neogaf, obviously meaning that all posters gamers, and the administrator in here are sexist too:

Broburger said:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-tBVEmTRrIwk/TwH86YnIbrI/AAAAAAAAAe8/mwc_Q5KecGs/jacket.jpg[/IMG]

As you can see it's pretty obvious why she's so upset
Click to expand...

Jason guy from Kotaku: Neogaf attacks female artist for breavely speaking up against sexist game art.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Dragon's Dogma II |🐉| You done fucked it up, Capcom
Opinion Analysis 2 3
110
7K
Chiggs replied
Possible Dragon Age Deadwolf Alpha Test gameplay and information (with pictures!)
32
4K
IbizaPocholo replied
Starfield Q&A on Discord Details
15
2K
balls of snow replied
Starfield Devs Q&A Session
37
3K
Hendrick's replied
REPLACED Injects Arkham-Style Combat into a Beautiful Retro-Futuristic Platformer – gameplay deep dive interview
News Game Dev Hype
34
4K
Marvel replied
Top Bottom