And what about all of those men who are beaten by women at fighting games when they actually are allowed to play against each other?
Women don't need protecting by regulations. There's no reason to exclude them if they want to play. None.
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Gender-based Finnish Gaming Tournaments taking place per backward IeSF regulations
- Thread starter Soi-Fong
- Start date
And what about all of those men who are beaten by women at fighting games when they actually are allowed to play against each other?
Women don't need protecting by regulations. There's no reason to exclude them if they want to play. None.
Avallon
Member
There is no women's division in the follow-up tournament. It's dumb, but it doesn't make sense to have women in the qualifiers if that is the case.
KimonoNoNo
Member
Woman have competed against men in the darts world championship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_Dobromyslova
Everyone is blaming this Finnish tournament, probably because of how that PCGamer article is constructed, but that's just a qualifier for the IeSF event, based in South Korea.
This should clear things up: http://kotaku.com/male-only-video-game-tournament-sets-off-controversy-1599047351
This should clear things up: http://kotaku.com/male-only-video-game-tournament-sets-off-controversy-1599047351
I haven't argued that they should be? Offering/showcasing a women's division doesn't mean you have to exclude them from the men's side.
The discussion has shifted toward how competition at any level should not be segregated.
Avallon
Member
Should be in OP.
It's mostly because the OP is doing a really bad job of summing up the source article and next to no one has actually clicked on the link, I think.
djplaeskool
Member
Here ladies. Go play some Tekken or whatever.
Impeccable
Member
I honestly would hope it's more about curating an enviroment where women may potentially feel more comfortable in competing rather than needing a seperation based on a perceived difference in gender.
Avallon
Member
It has nothing to do with Finland. It's a qualifier for a South Korean tournament which is "no girls allowed".
Lord_Balkan
Member
It is probably because of the way most other sports are organized, and its a side effect from that. It sounds kind of dumb, and it is. Sounds like bureaucracy.
This is what I mean.
Nah, it ain't our fault, all the blame lies on IeSF and their idiocy. Heck, Assembly guys are trying to lobby IeSF to make it so that both genders can battle their RNG lucks on games.
Ah, didnt see this before I posted.
If this was happening here in England, I'd be ashamed if the people organising it weren't making a definite stand against the IeSP.
Nymphae
Banned
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Apparently they have to follow whatever rules IeSF sets, so it's not really a problem in Finland only. Always nice to see other finnish here in gaf.
Avallon
Member
Please edit the OP. People are completely missing the mark on this one by not reading the thread.
demosthenes
Member
It's like it was written in 1920.
Hector Garfria
Member
That's pretty gross
The though of card games being all luck or RNG is silly and proves to me that you haven't actually played them at a competitive level.
On topic, I have watched a lot of SC2 and HS and never even heard of this organization. Obviously this is hogwash and should be changed. I am sad at the thought of a player of Scarlett's caliber being barred from competing against the male competition.
CosmicQueso
Member
I mean, not necessarily something to be ashamed about... but how about Traditional Finnish Food?
I mean, Lutefisk? C'mon Finland. Check yourselves.
Anton Sugar
Member
RockTurtle
Member
i thought only people with jobs played tekken. what is finland trying to say...
also lol at no one reading the article.
also lol at no one reading the article.
chickdigger802
Banned
i recall people were pretty surprised that they got some female pros at the nintendo smash invitational.
think they did pretty well too.
think they did pretty well too.
I clicked and read the article before posting! Crazy, huh?
Avallon
Member
This tournament is a qualifier for the main event. The main event is being held in Korea. It is a male only event. If a woman were to qualify out of Finland, she would not be allowed to play in the main event.
Women playing in the qualifiers is in direct conflict with the rules of the finals.
I wrote that line as a joke btw. But blaming RNG is fun always when I lose.
They actually don't. The IeSF allows females to participate in the qualifying tournaments with the caveat that females aren't able to participate in the final tournament even if they win the qualifiers. Since this just doesn't make any sense, the Finnish organizers have chosen to exclude females altogether - however, they could have allowed them to participate.
(And I'm not sure if that's a good or bad move, actually. I would feel pretty humiliated if I were a woman winning the tournament only to get some consolization gift. It's bullshit all around.)
Or about how many rules we have. A restaurant couldn't buy fresh fish from across the street from fishermen, because the health authorities said there was no means of verifying the fish was fresh. It was fished out of the sea a couple of hours ago. Instead the restaurant has to buy their fish from a market, which usually is atleast a day old.
Go Finland.
Anton Sugar
Member
Ah, I was about to ask what RO8 was.
Still, seems pretty fucked that the main tournament is open to males only, anyway.
I don't get why they don't just leave the IeSF and create a new Federation that doesn't discriminate by gender. Also, screw becoming a "sport" if you have to discriminate to become one in the first place.
And the Kotaku article that's supposed to clear things up doesn't elaborate on the misleading chess statement.
And the Kotaku article that's supposed to clear things up doesn't elaborate on the misleading chess statement.
'Because other sports do it, and we're trying to be like a real sport too' is a terrible excuse on the part of the IeSF, and they should be ashamed for advancing it (as should the Finnish tournament for enabling it by banning female players too).
This is a case where the e-sport industry can take a progressive stand and set aside decades of precedent instead of just doing what 'normal sport' does. These types of actions do nothing but perpetuate the stereotype of the gaming industry as unfriendly to females and the playing of video games (especially at the elite level) as something that only men can do. Talk about taking a huge step backward...
(In physical sports, I can see the need for gender-based leagues. In e-sports leagues, there's not a shred of evidence that men have an inherently higher natural limit to their skill than women do, so separating them serves no purpose but to make their gaming organization look backwards and archaic.)
This is a case where the e-sport industry can take a progressive stand and set aside decades of precedent instead of just doing what 'normal sport' does. These types of actions do nothing but perpetuate the stereotype of the gaming industry as unfriendly to females and the playing of video games (especially at the elite level) as something that only men can do. Talk about taking a huge step backward...
(In physical sports, I can see the need for gender-based leagues. In e-sports leagues, there's not a shred of evidence that men have an inherently higher natural limit to their skill than women do, so separating them serves no purpose but to make their gaming organization look backwards and archaic.)
I actually do hope that this blows ups nicely so IeSF will change that ruling completely. If not, then we need better federation for sure for the future of esports.
I think that most "traditional" sports that are seen today are separated by gender and by IeSF adhering to these standards they believe it can legitimize their claim more of being "real" sports. At least, I think that's their reasoning.
If you look at it though, it's ass-backwards. No reason females can't play Hearthstone. Lol
Flachmatuch
Member
Exactly. I would think that people who want their hobby to be more generally accepted would not try to maintain other existing divisions - in fact, imo "gamers" should actually be proud of being more inclusive. That's what they seem to want from wider society after all.
ScatheZombie
Member
Except 'legitimate' sports treat the events equally. The last two Olympics (Winter and Summer) no longer have male-only sports. There are only certain divisions within a sport that have male-only or female-only contests. But, due to the drastically different playstyle and nature of each individual game, they shouldn't be considered 'divisions' but completely separate events - and thus support, at a minimum, male and female divisions for each.
Additionally, non-physical 'sports' (Chess, Racing, and Gaming) have traditionally allowed male vs female competitions. In most cases, they may have female-specific leagues but those are only to encourage female participation, not as a means of segregation (females are allowed to participate in the main event).
Plus, America has Title IX, which prohibits collegiate sports (and education) from discriminating against female athletes by not having (or at least allowing) equal support of female leagues (it does a ton of other things, but that's the relevant point). And most 'legitimate' sports have some form of collegiate level support.
So, TLDR: The Olympics don't support this, there's examples of this decision not being applicable to other similar legitimate sports, and it would be illegal if they attempted this in the States at a collegiate level (where most legitimate sports have support).
Basically, this is the exact opposite of what they should be doing to push for legitimacy as a sport.
There's no reason why they have to follow those every one of those regulations in the first place, especially when they're not relevant. It's entirely their choice.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Sexism at its finest - where the point of equality is so far missed that it actually loops back into sexism again.
It makes me angry that a USF4 tournament is going to take place that is male-only. Utterly repugnant and against everything that the modern FGC, and more locally the European FGC, stands for - especially as Europe has legitimate and well known FGC members who are female - off the top of my head I can list Nercomina (Spanish SF4 player, excellent Cammy) and Kayane (top-tier Soul Calibur player).
It makes me angry that a USF4 tournament is going to take place that is male-only. Utterly repugnant and against everything that the modern FGC, and more locally the European FGC, stands for - especially as Europe has legitimate and well known FGC members who are female - off the top of my head I can list Nercomina (Spanish SF4 player, excellent Cammy) and Kayane (top-tier Soul Calibur player).
Ski jumping is still male only, isn't it?
chrominance
Member
Another example is the World Curling Federation, which sanctions the World Mixed Doubles Curling Championship. There are also full mixed curling events, though for some reason the world governing body doesn't have a mixed full-team curling championship (though the European federation does). Curling has been a full Olympic sport (though not mixed) for decades now.
Women's ski jumping was introduced as a full medal sport at Sochi 2014.
Hah, the IeSF create the stupidest possible "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. It reads like, and I may be giving them too much credit, they came up with these rules by largely copying other sports federations without a thought as to why the rule exists and whether it has any bearing on their situation (spoiler: it doesn't).