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Gensou Suikoden Tierkreis - This week in Japan & March in America

zoku88

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It's the grim reaper.. the "2" is his clothe...

EDIT: Crap, now I can't unsee the 2
 

Tenkai Star

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Sword Familiar said:
Looks like a scythe mixed with the number "2". Very random. As much as I care for the Suikoden series, I can't see how anyone can find the Soul Eater rune attractive. To each his own, I guess.
Its the reaper, like your avatar.
 

shykyoichi

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Sword Familiar said:
Looks like a scythe mixed with the number "2". Very random. As much as I care for the Suikoden series, I can't see how anyone can find the Soul Eater rune attractive. To each his own, I guess.

It does somewhat looks like that. But for me, it feels like it exudes darkness and death, just by being dark. Unlike the Bright Shield while is basically a shield. The True Flame Rune is also attractive. But the Blue Moon still gets the top spot. The Gate rune is also okay.

I don't like the Sun rune. It looks like it wants to explode. The Rune of Punishment is also weird for me. And the Beast rune is too simple-looking.
 

Sword Familiar

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It's not a grim reaper. At best it's a bear/wolf/fish-creature who's arms are deformed into a scythe.

EDIT: And it's PRAYING! "Please, relieve me of this pain. I can't take it any longer."
 

Sword Familiar

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Bearfish or twoscythe, take it or leave it.
 

shykyoichi

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A brief intro first:
I am an avid Suikoden fan. I played all Suikoden games (I - V, Rhapsodia, Suikogaiden) except the card stories. I followed the series since my childhood :D and is my favorite RPG series. I'm also a member of Suikoden forums and such. So I'm aware of the mythology and the terminologies of the Suikoverse.

Having reached the end of game, I think it's time for me to give a longer impression/review. I took me longer than I expected as I restarted the game 4 times as I realized that I passed a point of no return and missed recruiting a certain Star. I took me around 50 hours in my final runthrough of the game.

I'll start with the least spoiler-heavy things like Sound and Graphics. Spoilers beware.

With the English release about 45 days away, I hope someone makes an official thread (if this one is only for the japanese version.)

Also the NA boxart:

MC and his friends (Jale, Marika and Riu). Nice boxart, so to say.

Sound
I kinda liked the music of Tierkreis. Somewhat light when you're in towns and dungeons and dramatic when needed. I like the BGM for Janam and Sarsabil. It sounds mystical and apt for the setting. If I would rank it, it wound't be perfect but it's good enough for me.

I didn't give much notice to VA. It sounds okay to me but I heard better VA. Sometimes though, the MC's voice irritates me. I would be better if there's an option of turning off VA like in Valkyrie Profile.

Graphics
I firmly stand that Tierkreis is one of best DS game graphically. The lush environment helps players be attuned to this new "universe". Suikoden games was never known for its graphical prowess. But Tierkreis can stand against other DS games in this regard.

My qualm is that while the environment and background are given focus, the detail given to character 3D models, is sub par and somewhat generic. Yes, the model adapts the weapon your character is equipped with and that's a good point. However, it looks to me that the models could fare better with finer tuning. The somewhat moderately disproportioned head-body ratio is akin to FFIV's weird looking models.

The in-game cinematics is on the top of their game. It's like clips of a B+ anime. Especially when certain stars perform some unites/magic in the clip. :D And you can see Suikoden has some promise (in a sense of being makeable) if made into an anime. Like the Tales, Persona and Xenosaga.

The game intro/opening doesn't portray most of the stars unlike previous Suikoden games where you can see most of the SoD in the intro and then look for them in the game. It's average for me. I like S3's intro better.

Game mechanics
*You can use the stylus for everything - movement, menu selection.

Tierkreis use a 4-member party like S4 with one support slot. Like other suikoden games, there are still unites and now, you can have unites with support characters (ex. Logan is playable, while Erin is a support character).

Minigames and other cool HQ activities are gone. There's also a minimal number of people on your HQ, which are mostly SoDs. Another weird thing for me is that when you have a character in you party, he/she doesn't disappear from your HQ. I remember that characters are supposed to disappear when you have them in your party.

There are 3 seasons and day counts. Certain SoD only appears in a particular season. Days are useful for quest and dispatch missions.

Weapons are now bought in shops alongside armors. So no more rune forging in weapons and weapon name progression. And there's no uniqueness for each weapon. Well, maybe except certain plot-related swords. On the same note, there's no more weaponsmith. Items remains the same. Buy and sell from stores. Get from chest. Trading is also in this game. You can receive materials/loots from monsters and you can sell them at trading shops. You can also buy materials from these shops. The selling and buying rates of materials different day-to-day and there's also a rumor section to help you.

Since the rune system was scrapped, there's no true runes and runes connection whatsoever. There's a new magic system (Mark of the Stars). The books (I'll explain further in the next section) you find while progressing through the game unlocks levels of magic in which your characters can choose from. You can change the magic equipped to your character similar to changing runes. Also, the new magic system utilize MP to cast magic unlike before, rune/magic points were used. If you ask me, you can substitute the term rune for a specific magic and viola, you have the rune system again. They shouldn't have scrapped the rune system.

Since there's no war battles, obviously, there's no war-only SoD. There's no duels too. Most of the SoD are playable while the rest being support. There's a few though that exist solely for taking care of the various functions within the HQ. I am talking to you, Moana :lol

Story
When I first heard of Tierkreis from Famitsu and the first trailer has shown in TGS 08, I was very excited. Not only that Suikoden is returning but it has an interesting plot. I followed the rumors til the release of the game and in the end, lesson learned, don't believe all rumors. :lol

My first impression is that Tierkreis is more mystical in nature than any other Suikoden. The other games is more politcal in nature. S1 has the political struggles of the Scarlet Moon Empire, S2 has the Dunan Unification War, S3 has the Second Fire Bringer War and S4 has the formation of the Island Nation, S5 has the Falenan Sucession/Civil War. In addition to this, there's the eternal chaos vs order clash.

The SoD list is diverse. More non-humans, and new races.

Quick rundown of story:
Basically, MC finds books, learns new things, allies with other groups, while deterring the advances of the One society. There's a main world (the one you're playing) and other worlds along with its inhabitants (other race/group) are introduced into this world. Books hold the world's memories. When another world merge with the main world, memories are edited. Only SoD retains their "unedited" memories. Books are said to hold the world's past and the SoD's the world's future.

(I skipped most story details as its too long.)
My Verdict
Given the new information provided in Tierkreis, it provides a new perpective on how things work within the Suikoverse. However, with tons of other things removed, you can put all the other Suikoden game in one world amongst Tierkreis' worlds. It's difficult to be too picky.

The SoD is the main and probably only connection of Tierkreis to the other games.

I admit that if I put what Tierkreis lack in one word, it would be NOSTALGIA. I once argue about what the Suikoden series is about. Is it about the 108 SoD? Is it about true runes? Is it about dichotomies and clasing powers? In my opinion, it is the interconnection of all things. Suikoden has an established universe and mythology.Its creation myth (the clash of Sword and Shield) reflects the overall theme in Suikoden games - clash of opposing forces. For the bonus, it has Leknaat, Jeane, Viki and Sindarin tech as constants.

Tierkreis puts all of that into a single world. All of the things we previously known about Suikoden is just a glimpse of an another reality. With a million other worlds, can one see Tierkreis without bias given that we knew how to perceive the [Suikoden] world only in the perspective we're used to.

Despite what Tierkreis lacks and for what it brings, it's still a good RPG. I still promote to buy the game and decide for yourself whether or not Tierkreis is for you.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
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Yes. I am looking forward to this one. Despite the FUCKING RIDICULOUS amount of awesome RPGs/games hitting the DS over the course of the next few weeks/months.
 

shykyoichi

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lucablight said:
I read that they took out the one on one duels. I hope not.

Since I already played the Japanese version of the game, I assure you that there's NO one-on-one duels in-game.
 

shykyoichi

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Augemitbutter said:
thats too bad.

the duels in Suiko V were crafted very well.

Yeah, though I think the lack of duels is due to the change in setting and the overall atmosphere of Tierkreis. 'Cuz they could have added it if they really wanted to.

cw_sasuke said:
Wow, kinda epic for a western ds j-rpg trailer :eek:

Minus the pronounciaton, the trailer is kickass.
 

jesusraz

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I have an interview with the Suikoden Tierkreis team coming up, and need a total of 8 questions. I've already filled in four, but thought perhaps the long-term fans of the series would like to chip in for the remaining four.

1. How long did it take to create Tierkreis, were there any problems developing it on DS and was the team as large as Suikoden V on PS2?

2. The game has now sold more than other Suikoden side-stories, as well as the PSP release of Suikoden I + II in Japan. Are you pleased with the sales so far and does it encourage you to start thinking about a sequel?

3. Can you please explain the story and how this all ties in with previous games in the series?

4.

5.

6.

7.

8. Fans have eagerly been awaiting Suikoden VI, with many hoping it would come to Wii. Will your team be creating a sixth main entry? Also, would you consider bringing a Suikoden game to Wii in the future?
ASAP on this, please, preferably by tomorrow at the latest, with later today being preferable. Thanks :)
 

lucablight

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Augemitbutter said:
thats too bad.

the duels in Suiko V were crafted very well.

Damn that's a real shame. It was one of the defining characteristicsof the Suikoden series for me.
 

Tenkai Star

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jesusraz said:
I have an interview with the Suikoden Tierkreis team coming up, and need a total of 8 questions. I've already filled in four, but thought perhaps the long-term fans of the series would like to chip in for the remaining four.


ASAP on this, please, preferably by tomorrow at the latest, with later today being preferable. Thanks :)

4. Are there any plans of more games in this dimension? (hit in face if he says Suikoden 6)

5. "Mark of the stars" has been seen in the trailer instead of Runes. Are there runes in this dimension. And if there is, are all 27 true Runes located in the dimension where the other Suikodoen games takes place or are they spread out in other dimensions?

6. Did you ever consider 2D graphics?

7. Could you please get Murayama back?

9. How much for the Suikoden 2 source code, instructions of how the engine work and all graphics? Will give head for it.
 

D-Pad

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Why, hello there, Teeairkreeeze. Can't wait to slip you in my Dess. Saving Heelians can wait a couple of days.

Tenkai Star said:
9. How much for the Suikoden 2 source code, instructions of how the engine work and all graphics? Will give head for it.
:lol
 

lucablight

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jesusraz said:
I have an interview with the Suikoden Tierkreis team coming up, and need a total of 8 questions. I've already filled in four, but thought perhaps the long-term fans of the series would like to chip in for the remaining four.


ASAP on this, please, preferably by tomorrow at the latest, with later today being preferable. Thanks :)

If it pleases you do you think you could ask them

1.) Why they took out the one on one duels?

2.) Why are there only 4 characters allowed in the party at once?

3.) Why there are no returning characters from previous entries?
 

Tenkai Star

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D-Pad said:
Why, hello there, Teeairkreeeze. Can't wait to slip you in my Dess. Saving Heelians can wait a couple of days.


:lol
You laugh, I seriously would. Suikoden 2 is the best game ever made IMO but I would still like to perfect it, and recreate Suikoden 1 in Suikoden 2 style. For that I would give head.
 

Mejilan

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Jun 9, 2004
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Holy... The pronounciation... :/
On another note, up until the gameplay started, it felt like a trailer to a new Studio Ghibli release (minus the changed art style, of course).
 

jesusraz

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Thanks for the extra questions folks :) I'm going with the following eight:

1. How long did it take to create Tierkreis, were there any problems developing it on DS and was the team as large as Suikoden V on PS2?

2. The game has now sold more than other Suikoden side-stories, as well as the PSP release of Suikoden I + II in Japan. Are you pleased with the sales so far and does it encourage you to start thinking about a sequel?

3. Can you please explain the story and how this all ties in with previous games in the series? And what was the reason for not including any characters from the previous Suikoden games?

4. What made you decide to make Tierkreis a 3D game on DS, rather than returning to the 2D style of the first two Suikoden games?

5. If Tierkreis is popular enough around the world would you ever consider remaking the first or second game on DS in the future as well?

6. "Mark of the Stars" has been seen in the trailer instead of the traditional Runes. Are there Runes in this dimension, and if there is, are all 27 true Runes located in the dimension where the other Suikodoen games takes place or are they spread out in other dimensions?

7. What was the decision to remove the one-on-one duels from earlier in the series and restrict the party to four characters at any one time? Are there any other fundamental changes that have also been made?

8. Fans have eagerly been awaiting Suikoden VI, with many hoping it would come to Wii. Will your team be creating a sixth main entry? Also, would you consider bringing a Suikoden game to Wii in the future?
I'll update again when everything's sorted/finalised. Won't be very quick, though, as there's a Headstrong/HoTD: Overkill audio interview going up tonight, then three others back-logged (Soul Bubbles, Tales of Hearts and Fragile). So patience, please :)
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Aug 30, 2005
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5. If Tierkreis is popular enough around the world would you ever consider remaking the first or second game on DS in the future as well?
Do you always have to ask these kind of questions? The first 2 games really don't need DS versions. :S
 

jesusraz

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jj984jj said:
Do you always have to ask these kind of questions? The first 2 games really don't need DS versions. :S
:lol You noticed that I do that? It's the sort of thing our readers always want me to throw in, so why not?

Personally I'd love to see both I and II appear on DS, either a ports á la Chrono Trigger, or full-on 3D upgrades using the Tierkreis engine. It's been such a long time since I played the originals on PSone and sadly the PSP port isn't going to be translated. I know quite a lot of people that would jump at the chance to play the original two again, so there's definitely enough justification for me to ask...however unfruitful the answer may be :)
 

Revolutionary

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jesusraz said:
8. Fans have eagerly been awaiting Suikoden VI, with many hoping it would come to Wii. Will your team be creating a sixth main entry? Also, would you consider bringing a Suikoden game to Wii in the future?
Why is this question just focusing on the Wii?

The series originated on the PlayStation, why don't you ask if there's plans for the next Suikoden on PS3?

Yes, I know there were rumors of the next Suikoden hitting the Wii, but I'd really appreciate it if you also asked if there were plans of the series returning to PlayStation - ya know, for us PS3 owners (no longer have a Wii, and don't plan on buying another one).
:(
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Aug 30, 2005
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Revolutionary said:
Why is this question just focusing on the Wii?

The series originated on the PlayStation, why don't you ask if there's plans for the next Suikoden on PS3?

Yes, I know there were rumors of the next Suikoden hitting the Wii, but I'd really appreciate it if you also asked if there were plans of the series returning to PlayStation - ya know, for us PS3 owners (no longer have a Wii, and don't plan on buying another one).
:(
Maybe because it's a Nintendo site? At least that question makes sense.
 

Zihark

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Revolutionary said:
Why is this question just focusing on the Wii?

The series originated on the PlayStation, why don't you ask if there's plans for the next Suikoden on PS3?

Yes, I know there were rumors of the next Suikoden hitting the Wii, but I'd really appreciate it if you also asked if there were plans of the series returning to PlayStation - ya know, for us PS3 owners (no longer have a Wii, and don't plan on buying another one).
:(
Geez people cmon, don't you know his site covers ds/wii systems-so of course he's asking about the possibility of more suikodens on those systems.and suikoden 1 and 2 remake on ds is an legit question-as this game may introduce new people to suikoden and they'll want to play past games in the series.
 

speedpop

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soldat7 said:
Having never played a Suikoden title, should I play this one first or the PS1 original?
I did Suikoden I + II a few months back and it was for the better I think, even though I had played III and IV before them both.

As for Tierkreis.. I'd think you would be fine to play this title first, Suikoden fans might dispute that though.
 

Tabris

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So it has nothing to do with the other Suikoden games except the Stars of Destiny? It's not in the same world? You travel worlds through books?

So it's basically what FFTA was to FFT?
 
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Tabris said:
So it has nothing to do with the other Suikoden games except the Stars of Destiny? It's not in the same world? You travel worlds through books?

So it's basically what FFTA was to FFT?
If you sort things by superficial and senseless groupings, then absolutely.
 

speedpop

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Tabris said:
So it has nothing to do with the other Suikoden games except the Stars of Destiny? It's not in the same world? You travel worlds through books?

So it's basically what FFTA was to FFT?
FFTA was set in Ivalice and still used the same character classes. I'd liken Tierkreis to something more similar to your standard Final Fantasy VII vs Final Fantasy VIII. Same brand, different characters, different fighting schemes, different story, different world.
 

Augemitbutter

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jj984jj said:
Do you always have to ask these kind of questions? The first 2 games really don't need DS versions. :S

we dont really need one. the psp-optimized version is perfect, but lacks translations. its a pity atlus isnt allowed to release konami games.
 

shykyoichi

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Revolutionary said:
Why is this question just focusing on the Wii?

The series originated on the PlayStation, why don't you ask if there's plans for the next Suikoden on PS3?

Yes, I know there were rumors of the next Suikoden hitting the Wii, but I'd really appreciate it if you also asked if there were plans of the series returning to PlayStation - ya know, for us PS3 owners (no longer have a Wii, and don't plan on buying another one).
:(

For one, Suikoden is a niche series. The development cost of making it a PS3 game is simply suicidal.

speedpop said:
As for Tierkreis.. I'd think you would be fine to play this title first, Suikoden fans might dispute that though.

I do think it's better to play Tierkreis 1st before SI or SII. At least that way, you won't complain that they removed blah blah and that there's no connection blah blah.

Tabris said:
So it has nothing to do with the other Suikoden games except the Stars of Destiny? It's not in the same world? You travel worlds through books?

So it's basically what FFTA was to FFT?

Yes, the Stars of Destiny basically is one of the primary connection of Tierkreis to the rest of the series. It's also set on a different world.

Spoiler from the game to answer Tabris' question:
You don't actually travel worlds in Tierkreis.
I could explain further but it would spoil the game for you and given that the release is near, my advice is to wait.
 

matmanx1

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Just wanted to update this and say that anyone that pre-ordered from Gamestop should be able to go by and pick up your Digital Artbook and Soundtrack disc. I picked mine up today and the soundtrack is surprisingly full featured for a freebie (importing it into iTunes as I write this - 18 tracks long!) and the digital artbook isnt bad either. It covers the main characters and shows some of the game backdrops in kind of a painted style. Definitely one of the nicer freebie discs I've gotten lately.
 

D-Pad

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matmanx1 said:
Just wanted to update this and say that anyone that pre-ordered from Gamestop should be able to go by and pick up your Digital Artbook and Soundtrack disc. I picked mine up today and the soundtrack is surprisingly full featured for a freebie (importing it into iTunes as I write this - 18 tracks long!) and the digital artbook isnt bad either. It covers the main characters and shows some of the game backdrops in kind of a painted style. Definitely one of the nicer freebie discs I've gotten lately.

Was just about to ask for impressions on the art book, thanks! I've had mine pre-ordered from Amazon so I guess I'll have to wait for the game to ship before I get the goodies.
 

rainking187

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matmanx1 said:
Just wanted to update this and say that anyone that pre-ordered from Gamestop should be able to go by and pick up your Digital Artbook and Soundtrack disc. I picked mine up today and the soundtrack is surprisingly full featured for a freebie (importing it into iTunes as I write this - 18 tracks long!) and the digital artbook isnt bad either. It covers the main characters and shows some of the game backdrops in kind of a painted style. Definitely one of the nicer freebie discs I've gotten lately.


FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I hate this shit. Don't cheap out, give us an actual artbook.
 

matmanx1

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Update: I really, really like this soundtrack. I listened to it 3 times all the way through in the car going to and from my folks house (2 hour drive each way). For a DS game it is EXCELLENT. Best game soundtrack since Persona 4, imo. Really nice job, Konami. I hope that not too much is lost to fit it onto the DS cart because that would be a real shame!
 

leroidys

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Weird I just got back from gamestop preordering this because I wan't that soundtrack, and also its suikoden of course. please be good.