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George Lucas Making Changes to Star Wars Saga... Again

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jaxword said:
You know Lucas flat out said this isn't the right interpretation, right? Balance, in Lucas' terms, means "no bad guys."
If he flat out said it isn't the right interpretation, then it's probably an interpretation we should stick by and treat as truth until episodes 7-9 come out and contradict it. Audience interpretation usually never matches the creator's, and in this case it's likely for the better.

The idea that both sides (the extreme good and the extreme evil) are wiped out in order to bring true balance is actually really cool. It gives the series a higher meaning (even the prequels), and it ultimately humanizes what a Jedi is in the end.

Eh, the whole "chosen one" thing has turned out to be pretty pointless. Lucas has approved the use of plenty of Sith and Dark Jedi in the post Endor content.
Lol, expanded universe.

Maybe my experience with the EU is shallow, but a lot of times when content not from the movies are involved, it's usually an excuse to have a highly decorated and edgy evil lightsaber users.

I miss the Rebel Alliance and blasters, when being uncivilized was actually cool.
 
KittenMaster said:
If he flat out said it isn't the right interpretation, then it's probably an interpretation we should stick by and treat as truth until episodes 7-9 come out and contradict it. Audience interpretation usually never matches the creator's, and in this case it's likely for the better.

The idea that both sides (the extreme good and the extreme evil) are wiped out in order to bring true balance is actually really cool. It gives the series a higher meaning (even the prequels), and it ultimately humanizes what a Jedi is in the end.

Lol, expanded universe.

Maybe my experience with the EU is shallow, but a lot of times when content not from the movies are involved, it's usually an excuse to have a highly decorated and edgy evil lightsaber users.

I miss the Rebel Alliance and blasters, when being uncivilized was actually cool.
Except for the way in which a force of nature has decreed children must be murdered in its name...
 
KittenMaster said:
If he flat out said it isn't the right interpretation, then it's probably an interpretation we should stick by and treat as truth until episodes 7-9 come out and contradict it. Audience interpretation usually never matches the creator's, and in this case it's likely for the better.

I'm no Lucas apologist, but when the fans start dictating the storyline over the writers' opinion, that's when objectivity and credibility has been lost. The wiping out of both Jedi and Sith, while interesting a concept, is not what he wrote or intended.

We just had 30 pages of people angrily saying it's not right to change things after the fact. In effect, denying what Lucas wrote means doing the very thing they condemn him for.

One could say they become the very thing they swore to destroy.
 
KittenMaster said:
If he flat out said it isn't the right interpretation, then it's probably an interpretation we should stick by and treat as truth until episodes 7-9 come out and contradict it. Audience interpretation usually never matches the creator's, and in this case it's likely for the better.

The idea that both sides (the extreme good and the extreme evil) are wiped out in order to bring true balance is actually really cool. It gives the series a higher meaning (even the prequels), and it ultimately humanizes what a Jedi is in the end.


Lol, expanded universe.

Maybe my experience with the EU is shallow, but a lot of times when content not from the movies are involved, it's usually an excuse to have a highly decorated and edgy evil lightsaber users.

I miss the Rebel Alliance and blasters, when being uncivilized was actually cool.



Oh god stop it, you're being waaaaaaaaaay too good to our civilization.

That notion of balance is laughable and not balance at all.

Basing "neutral" behavior towards others as the goal to balance is certainly not a goal worth aspiring to.
 
KittenMaster said:
Lol, expanded universe.

Maybe my experience with the EU is shallow, but a lot of times when content not from the movies are involved, it's usually an excuse to have a highly decorated and edgy evil lightsaber users.

I miss the Rebel Alliance and blasters, when being uncivilized was actually cool.
A lot of the EU is trashy, but that doesn't change the fact that it is considered canon and that much of it has to be approved by Lucas himself.
 
There's actually a fan theory that the Jedi prophecy was a complete fabrication of either Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious, that he planted among the Jedi after he manipulated the Force to make Anakin's mother pregnant. Dunno if it's genius or just dumb.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
There's actually a fan theory that the Jedi prophecy was a complete fabrication of either Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious, that he planted among the Jedi after he manipulated the Force to make Anakin's mother pregnant. Dunno if it's genius or just dumb.
Yeah I'll go with just dumb
 
I don't understand how people can take credit away from Lucas when it comes to A New Hope. Yes the original drafts were bad. Almost all originals draft screenplays are bad for any film ever made. That he worked with writers to pound it into something film able speaks volumes. Then he made the incredibly wise decision to get very talented concept artists to flesh out the look of the film and build it into the icon it is.

He made the vast number of decisions that led to a success. All the casting, building an effects group and company, shooting the actual film, and going with a huge orchestral score.

People take this for granted but it was only a year before Logans run in it's awful shiny flaring hippie disco style came out.

People don't give him credit for the editing either. If Lucas is such a shit editor how did he do the final cut on Raiders of the Lost Ark which Speilberg maintains improved the film immensely.

The final film, what we see, is usually due mostly to the force of will of a director. At the end of the day barring full on studio interference the director is responsible for the success or failure of the film. He made a big success.
 
Having watched I-IV now, a few questions and comments.

I know there was talk of the DVD versions of Episode I being zoomed in, to prevent problems with the edges showing up. So did they fix whatever these problems were, or are they just not that noticeable?

I was really prepared to be disgusted at prequel CG after seeing some of the images in this thread. However, things like the apparent CG layering from the Episode I end celebration really didn't come across on screen. More obvious to me than a decade ago, sure.

This is more a story thing, but hearing the dialog again brings it to mind. When Obi-Wan checks out the cloning facility in Episode II, they mention they have 200K units ready to go, and a million will be ready soon. Doesn't this seem really really limited for a galactic conflict? Maybe if they were pumping out 200K a day, but even then through the entire war they'd not beat World War II numbers by much.
tuffy said:
The problem is that literally all of the emotional elements from ESB are defused in the least dramatic way possible in RotJ.

The whole Luke/Han/Leia love triangle. Instead of a dramatic moment where she'll have to choose, suddenly two of them are siblings and the whole thing falls flat.
Triangle? It was Han/Leia all the way, with Leia giving Luke a big kiss to annoy Han.
 
Pie Lord said:
A lot of the EU is trashy, but that doesn't change the fact that it is considered canon and that much of it has to be approved by Lucas himself.

I wish we'd get away from the notion that Lucas approves what goes in to the expanded universe. He really doesn't. All that stuff goes through licensing and approvals and maybe, just maybe, Lucas hears about or involves himself in a very small part of it (such as the basic plot for the Force Unleashed games).

Honestly, Lucas' "approval" for the vast majority of the expanded universe consists of cashing the check.
 
Snaku said:
With bare minimum effort to make the OT look HD!
Never stopped me from buying the Toho Blu-rays of Godzilla! lol

B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
Its sad seeing SW fans being so willing to get fleeced.
You haven't seen Godzilla fans son.

Though I say the docs and Spoof Comp make it worth it for the 35 bucks I paid. Plus I feel it's ethical if you want to have a harmy version and didn't get an older VHS or DVD set.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
You haven't seen Godzilla fans son.

Though I say the docs and Spoof Comp make it worth it for the 35 bucks I paid. Plus I feel it's ethical if you want to have a harmy version and didn't get an older VHS or DVD set.

Didn't Criterion just get their hands on Godzilla?

Before I go to bed every night, I pray for Criterion to get Star Wars. But that's never going to happen =(
 
MC Safety said:
I wish we'd get away from the notion that Lucas approves what goes in to the expanded universe. He really doesn't. All that stuff goes through licensing and approvals and maybe, just maybe, Lucas hears about or involves himself in a very small part of it (such as the basic plot for the Force Unleashed games).

Honestly, Lucas' "approval" for the vast majority of the expanded universe consists of cashing the check.

If you've ever looked at the Lucas coding for the EU and such, you can tell it's only worth something till he gets an idea.

Now it's not fair to say Lucasfilm doesn't have a licensing division that try and stay aware of these things is a bit unfair too.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
This is more a story thing, but hearing the dialog again brings it to mind. When Obi-Wan checks out the cloning facility in Episode II, they mention they have 200K units ready to go, and a million will be ready soon. Doesn't this seem really really limited for a galactic conflict? Maybe if they were pumping out 200K a day, but even then through the entire war they'd not beat World War II numbers by much.
The semi-official wiki suggests three million units were produced. The war wasn't really that big though, there are only a couple of systems on the separatist side of things and the droids suck at combat.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
If you've ever looked at the Lucas coding for the EU and such, you can tell it's only worth something till he gets an idea.

Now it's not fair to say Lucasfilm doesn't have a licensing division that try and stay aware of these things is a bit unfair too.

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're saying.
 
MC Safety said:
I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#The_Holocron

By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.
The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.
G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
T-canon[1] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[2]
C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.
S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

Leland Chee continues to answer questions about the Holocron in the Holocron continuity database questions thread at the starwars.com forums.
On August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon: "There is one overall continuity."
In a December 7, 2005 post, Chee commented on how the Holocron is applied to licensees:
"The Holocron comes into play for anything official being developed for books, games, websites, and merchandise. For anything beyond that, it is simply a reference tool."
In a December 6, 2006 post, Chee suggests the existence of a second continuity composed only of the films:
"The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving."
On a post made on the same day, Chee stated that:
"Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity."
This statement confirms the existence of two separate continuities, the "film only" continuity maintained and followed by George Lucas himself, and the "films + EU" continuity that is used for licensed products.
[edit]

I was referring to coding in the Holocron. I'm saying EU is sanctioned fan fic, but it can be elevated up or ignored. I also wanted to say that licensing team does seem to try and do a good job not creating tons of screw ups, by keeping a licensing bible .Sorry it's a bit easier when I have a keyboard and can cut and paste (last post was on an iPad)

Anth0ny said:
Didn't Criterion just get their hands on Godzilla?

Before I go to bed every night, I pray for Criterion to get Star Wars. But that's never going to happen =(
Yes, they did.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Never stopped me from buying the Toho Blu-rays of Godzilla! lol

It did me. Spent $80 importing the GMK Blu, and immediately regretted it. Piss poor DVD upscales should be illegal. That disc's only saving grace was it included all of the extras from the 3-disc limited edition DVD.

Pretty sad when fucking Mill Creek releases the first two Kaneko Gamera films on a single Blu-ray for $5, and it looks several orders of magnitude better than Toho's efforts. I am curious to see how Media Blaster's Destroy All Monsters and Megalon Blu's will look, seeing as how Toho hasn't released either of them yet. I know the Criterion of Gojira will be the definitive release, so no worries there.
 
Snaku said:
It did me. Spent $80 importing the GMK Blu, and immediately regretted it. Piss poor DVD upscales should be illegal. That disc's only saving grace was it included all of the extras from the 3-disc limited edition DVD.

Pretty sad when fucking Mill Creek releases the first two Kaneko Gamera films on a single Blu-ray for $5, and it looks several orders of magnitude better than Toho's efforts.

80 bucks!

I got them before the Yen got sterioded up and only got the classics (54, GvM,GTTHM, Rodan) only newer ones were Biollante and 85.

They weren't upscales though (at least for the ones I got).
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
80 bucks!

I got them before the Yen got sterioded up and only got the classics (54, GvM,GTTHM, Rodan) only newer ones were Biollante and 85.

They weren't upscales though (at least for the ones I got).

Yeah, I heard the Showa films were treated better, but I lost interest after viewing GMK. And if the merchandising frenzy surrounding GINO was anything to go by, I'm sure we'll be getting domestic Blu-ray releases of all of the Goji films when Legendary Godzilla hits theaters. I'll just wait for that.
 
Rapstah said:
The semi-official wiki suggests three million units were produced. The war wasn't really that big though, there are only a couple of systems on the separatist side of things and the droids suck at combat.
There are probably bigger sports riots on Coruscant.
 
Snaku said:
Yeah, I heard the Showa films were treated better, but I lost interest after viewing GMK. And if the merchandising frenzy surrounding GINO was anything to go by, I'm sure we'll be getting domestic Blu-ray releases of all of the Goji films when Legendary Godzilla hits theaters. I'll just wait for that.

Most likely, I'm pretty happy we'll (cross fingers since it's MB) DAM and Megalon by years end.
 
harriet the spy said:
Dark Empire spoiler:
not to mention the emperor didn't even really die during ROTJ. Man, how much does Dark Empire and the extended universe fucking suck.

How? He was thrown into plasma(or something) and then the whole ship blew up...
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Most likely, I'm pretty happy we'll (cross fingers since it's MB) DAM and Megalon by years end.

Yeah, Megalon is easily in my top five among the Showa entries. Such a fun movie, and Megaro-Goji is adorable.
 
vas_a_morir said:
How? He was thrown into plasma(or something) and then the whole ship blew up...
He respawned. I'm not kidding. Something about clones, if I remember right.
The EU is kind of weird.
 
Expanded universe doesn't count, sorry. That's not talking about the quality of it, it's just that I think outside of George Lucas there should be multiple Star Wars universes.
 
vas_a_morir said:
How? He was thrown into plasma(or something) and then the whole ship blew up...
The Emperor didn't necessarily come back, he just had clone backups of himself essentially.

I think that would've been totally appropriate in the Clone Wars era though. Things would make more sense if Palpatine was a Force-less clone of the Emperor.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Triangle? It was Han/Leia all the way, with Leia giving Luke a big kiss to annoy Han.
Luke's crush on Leia drives much of the plot of the first film. In the second, she's the one Luke calls out to through the Force while he's dangling from an antenna. "Return of the Jedi" would've benefited as a film if something had been done with that conflict. If he has to give her up to pursue his Jedi training, that'd make for a dramatic scene. If she has to give both of them up to become a queen, that'd make for a dramatic scene too. But making two of them siblings erases the need for a dramatic scene, which is how Lucas wanted it. Maybe he doesn't think kids in the audience can handle that sort of drama (which explains why he thinks ESB is the worst Star Wars film), but I think he's wrong. If he'd given the audience more credit then, we might have a better trilogy now.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Quick question, where was Luke transmitting an application too? It's the Academy or something like that, but who runs that if not the Empire? I mean what was it even?
I've always assumed it was the Imperial Naval Academy.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Quick question, where was Luke transmitting an application too? It's the Academy or something like that, but who runs that if not the Empire? I mean what was it even?

It's the space academy. Kinda like flight school. It's separate from the military which is what we know of as the Empire. So he wants to join the Academy to go explore space and get off Tattooine but hopes he doesn't get drafted by the Empire.
 
Marty Chinn said:
It's the space academy. Kinda like flight school. It's separate from the military which is what we know of as the Empire. So he wants to join the Academy to go explore space and get off Tattooine but hopes he doesn't get drafted by the Empire.
Okay that makes sense. It always drove me nuts, as logically shouldn't it be part of the Empire.
 
Willy105 said:
A lot of the deleted scenes are fantastic, and I would have liked to see them put in the movie in a Special Edition, instead of just changing random scenes.

Well, the emperor blocking vader would've been interesting, hinting that Palps has already started his plans to replace him with Luke. I think that would've been the first and only foreshadowing outside of a few lines about Vader's feelings.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
It doesn't make a difference if you don't buy it anyway. It's not like the people who will buy it and like is going to be less than those who dont.
It still makes an impact, and shows others that you really do mean what you say. It's not nothing.
 
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