Man those smug faces when they break through. Really, the police need non-lethal weaponry and reinforcements just to make a point, this can't happening.
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Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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Napalm_Frank
Member
With that kind of border control it's Austria who is to blame. At least get an angry looking police dog in there or something.
Alabamaman
Banned
What is a passport? A miserable little pile of papers.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
No it is not. Refugee outflows have never worked like this. In any case Europe is not taking the brunt of the crisis, that is in Lebanon and Turkey. Even as they reach those two countries they still have serious concerns of long term stability. In Turkey refugees cannot work with legal protection, rent property, have Turkish bank accounts etc etc. Lebanon is at a 25% population increase due to externally displaced refugees from Syria, not to mention Hezbollah who is actively supporting Assad in Syria.
The refugees have not been in civil society for years and are unable to have or return home. Some of them have either brought enough money or earned under the table enough to make the trip to Europe. Some have ties in European countries, most want a stable place for their family so naturally they go to a country where there is the best place to gain economic stability to not live in a refugee camp for another 4 years. The EU system of stopping internal movement for refugees has caused the issue of smuggling and distrust of governments in the area. They have no home to return to, and cannot be expected to live 5+ years as a refugee.
This is not a new problem. If the EU was proactive in the situation there would not be the human toll of the thousands dead in the Mediterranean and the road to Europe. They need a three tier solution of:
1. More and immediate aid to Turkey and Lebanon to aid, set up, and operate refugee camps in the region.
2. Percentage quotas of refugee placement (excluding ties of family and sponsorship).
3. Lottery system and safe passage to Europe from Turkey and Lebanon.
The current ignorance of EU has created another humanitarian crisis in the largest refugee displacement in modern history.
http://news.yahoo.com/finnish-pm-says-refugee-inflow-sweden-growing-121352792--business.html
"The government said more than 11,000 asylum seekers, most from Iraq, have come to Finland so far this year, compared to just 3,600 in the whole last year.
It said the situation was getting tough in Tornio, in north of the country, where refugees come through the Swedish border after a long journey."
"More than 500 refugees crossed the land border on Thursday and the government expected up to 1,000 arrivals on Friday."
More than 11000 so far this year, most not even from Syria. Over 500 crossed on Thursday an the Finnish government expects up to 1000 on Friday.
This took a two minute search on Google for 'finland refugees'. Maybe instead of hassling other posters and going on about 'random' numbers and nitpicking semantics, you could post some relevant information yourself.
yeah, there are reports of 300 a day since the last few days, and there was an expected amount of 500 on that special friday.
doesn't change the fact that saying there are literally 1,000 every day since such a loooong time - is simply wrong.
How's Finland dealing with the situation so far? I'd think Finland wants them to integrate as quick as possible?
Chittagong
Gold Member
If they are seeking asylum, they would stay in the first country giving them that. It is, in fact, one of the corner stones of EU free movement, that the first country receiving them Is responsible for registering them. When you avoid registering as an asylum seeker for an entire journey through Europe, and begin to shop between several perfectly valid countries such as Austria, Germany, Sweden and Finland to find the 'most receptive country' or go with your mates, that's when it becomes economic / social immigration. Family reunification is a recognised process available for families separated.
Finland is quite vocally pro-multicultural, meaning that integration is not meant to happen forcibly (e.g. forcing Finnish values and beliefs on the immigrants). Multiculturalism maintains the cultures of those joining the society instead of integrating them, often by establishing them separate cultural areas, justice systems and procedures (see e.g. Sharia courts in UK).
Alabamaman
Banned
They are opening emergency shelters daily. I fear the day when they start to forcibly place asylum seekers in our homes.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Well I mean, Finland is not any better at integrating than the others. There is no huge problems as of yet but very soon the housing will become a big problem. Then again I expect there to be big change in policy if this keeps up a few weeks since even the most pro-immigration people know that the way things are handled now cannot sustain the flow coming right now, especially since it all is coming from the northern Finland that is just not prepared for this kind of stuff.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
And get torn to ribbons by the shitty media.
I agree with your 3 points but i hope you do get that refugees that can choose which EU countries they want to go and a fair quota for all EU countries don't work together.
Which means if there is a quota refugees simply cant choose the same 3 or 4 countries anymore for obvious reasons and that means many refugees wont be in the countries they actually want no matter how some radical left people that defend this pick and choose crap think about it.
Misterinenja
Member
Is that distinction between asylum seeking and immigration actual or perceived in this case?
Like I said, I understand, for example, the motivations behind Iraqis crossing from Sweden to Finland considering the the fact that it's simply more crowded there right now and the system currently favors Syrians.
Humans act like humans do and can't be handled like cattle in these situations. So of course there are many factors determining where they decide to seek asylum in the end. If you wanna boil it down to "pick and choose mentality" or economic shopping you're technically right but it's unrealistic to expect something else. Our system allows it so until that changes there's nothing that can be done about that.
Textbook fearmongering nonsense.
ClosingADoor
Member
And again we have dozens of people drowning this weekend trying to make the cross. Is anyone still advocating open borders and letting people make this trip because it is more humane? Because to me it seems like the reason thousands of people have died already.
Alabamaman
Banned
No really I do. There isn't enough housing for these amounts of people. Though they'll have to rip the keys from my cold dead hands.
Infuriating.
You want your government to keep these people at the emergency shelters for good? How would they otherwise contribute to society?
I mean unless you are being sarcastic, you'd wish they do their bit and work hard just like everyone else right? Some want their kids to be doctors, engineers, etc, why deny them that in their new home? Their kids will probably never go back to Syria and rightfully so as they will likely grow up to feel Finnish as long as Finland is willing to accept them.
ClosingADoor
Member
When you already have a lack of housing like many European countries, it is kind of annoying when people come here and get pushed to the front of the line, while others are waiting for 10 years already for social housing.
So either the government needs to increase housing projects and quick, or start to decline people when there is none to give anymore.
That said, I don't believe anyone will come knocking on your door and telling you to take in a refugee. That is just nonsense.
And the 'feeling Finnish' part is a large concern. Because we have seen with previous immigrants, that even the second or third generation do not feel part of the country, so there are doubts that it will be any better this time around.
Of course they're looking at longer term housing, we just do not have the capability for it currently.We already have close to 10% unemployment so good luck on getting them jobs. Besides, they're not immigrants, they're refugees. The idea is that they'd go back home when things calm down.
QuicheFontaine
Member
What? No, it's precisely what our system doesn't allow. People are circumventing the system due to problems with enforcement and border control, but that's not the same as the system "allowing" people to shop around.
jakonovski
Member
As far as the Finnish chorus of complaining goes, let's not forget that Finland is pretty much at the back of the pack when it comes to taking in refugees. So in an EU that shares the burden, Finland would be one of the countries increasing their quotas significantly.
That sort of puts things in a perspective, but do these refugees know they have to return home once Assad and ISIS are gone?
ClosingADoor
Member
Nobody believes many will return home. The majority will stay here.
Chittagong
Gold Member
You mean, like taking, for example, 11,000 refugees this year, when UK takes 20,000 in the next five? That kind of a sharing the burden?
Alabamaman
Banned
We can accept quotas if borders will be closed from illegal immigrants. We would gladly take families of legal refugees than single men coming after benefits.
A big country, time to start building some houses and new cities
ClosingADoor
Member
Sure, got a few billion to spare? You don't just built some new cities out of nowhere.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Its probably either Assad or ISIS or the rebels, neither option is any good for civilians. Syria is pretty much done.
There is no happy end or good guy winning this.
You know how stupid this sounds? or is this sarcasm. I hate deciphering posts like this.
Alabamaman
Banned
Sure lets build New Baghdad in Lapland. EU can finance it surely, hmmm?
Yep. The day Europe sided with Bush JR. and Tony Blair and went along with their oil grabbing murderous campaign was the day it all went down the drain. These are the fruits of their labor.
TVexperto
Member
The gov is completly overwhelmed, they dont know how to guarantee the safety for the people especially in Munich anymore since they cant send the trains anywhere. She is seriously exhausted cause she wants to help the refugees but she also cant guarantee the safety of the german people if nothing changes and they just keep letting people in in southern germany. the clip is in german for anyone interested:
https://vimeo.com/139770418
https://vimeo.com/139770418
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Starting to look like india
ClosingADoor
Member
I got a big trip to Europe next summer for 2 months and ill be in most of the countries (Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia, Austria) that have the most migrants travelling through. If it's the same situation next year, I'm hitchhiking. I ain't going any where near buses or train stations.
Or I'll adjusted my plans, Russia, Poland, the baltics and the Ukraine (yes even here) are looking like better prospects right now.
Interceptor
Banned
Backpacking? Imagine losing your passport in Hungary right now. "Tourist? Suuure, please wait over there."
Please don't add facts to his guilt psychosis. We are the ones to blame. For everthing. It's all our fault. It's just coming back to us. Inshalla.
Why would she say this?
I can only imagine it's because she knows something we don't.
Oh and does she mention anything or even blame mother Merkel for any of this mess? The Leader that opened her arms while crossing her fingers.
I'm not so worry about that. More about taking a Darjeeling express through Europe with 80% male migrants. Possibly with one or more sitting on my lap.
I'm Nordic looking as well. I'll be standing out moreso than usual anytime in my past Euro Trips.
Bush / Blair was just the beginning. France's military intervention in Libya few years ago makes them as responsible for what's going on in this whole Isis mess. So yes, refugees are France's responsibility too.
(The French military began airstrikes in Iraq using Rafale fighter jets).
Time to own up I guess.
This is what happens when people don't pay attention what their governments are doing in their name across the globe. Pathetic.
ClosingADoor
Member
You're all over the place. First you talk about Iraq. Then suddenly it's Libya. Yes, France participated pretty heavily in that and looking back, getting rid of Qaddafi without a clear and stable new government was a mistake. On the other hand, you had civilians dying and everyone was screaming for someone to do something. That is the difficult thing with this whole mess, no matter what you do, it is wrong.
The airstrikes in Iraq are against ISIS. So blaming that for the creation of this situation is a bit strange, since the events happened the other way around.
What do you even mean with "why would she say this?"
Letting in thousands of people with a good third you don't even know where they are from and to the point that everyone is overwhelmed and public transportation is done for is an insane security risk already period.
This has always been the goal of the EU, but really it's always been a pipedream.
dapperbandit
Banned
Quotas for taking in refugees would only end up fueling resentment towards Brussels anyway, even if it is the most generally acceptable policy moving forward.
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