Interfectum
Member
Good interview. <3 Jeff. He's good at pulling the answers people need to hear.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Giant Bomb Phil Spencer Interview: Clarifications Regarding Scorpio and Xbox One S
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
I think it will get phased out eventually of course, you can't keep making it forever, but the mandate for Scorpio development is to support XB1, I think when Scorpios successor comes XB1 support won't be a requirement but Scorpio still will, and the cycle will keep repeating and phasing out the old Xbox whilst retaining all the ecosystem investment
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Oh, please. If X1/S can't even hold 30fps in a game and Scorpio can, on the same display, the X1/S owners are gonna feel pretty damn left behind if you ask me. Hell, even if the X1/S does hold 30 but Scorpio still beat that by 20, 30 maybe more fps, then I'd still feel left behind. I know the value of framerate, resolution and detail and Scorpio can deliver higher/more of all of those. So are they throttling Scorpio to appease X1/S owners or not?
Spencer said they chose to do a 4.5x power bump specifically because it would enable 4k gaming. 4k is 4x the amount of pixels of 1080p, so that means it should be an achievable goal.
You will still get the same game but in correlation to the hardware you'll play it on
It's like feeling left behind if you are playing Horizon 3 on the X1 at 30fps and with lower AA quality meanwhile on PC is playable at 4k 60fps and 4x MSAA
Makes no sense getting mad about that
I miss Don Mattrick so much
Wut
Okami Haundo
Member
I very much appreciate your taking the time to make this post. I was already very clear on what Microsoft's intentions were here, but I also followed a ton of different sources.
I give Phil enormous credit for doing the amount of interviews that he does. It has to be incredibly hard to get your message across when 50 different outlets are interviewing you while looking for their own unique angle on the content.
I give Phil enormous credit for doing the amount of interviews that he does. It has to be incredibly hard to get your message across when 50 different outlets are interviewing you while looking for their own unique angle on the content.
You will receive less performance with the benefit of less cost, this is an established and a commonly understood basis
No one gets left behind as Xbox One support and accessory support is mandatory just like always
Never said I was mad. What I'm saying is that you can't say 'no gamer gets left behind' and then release a beastly new console that still plays the same games. You either have to admit you're definitely leaving some gamers behind in terms of fps/internal res/detail level, or you have to throttle Scorpio (on 1080p displays), which is a waste of money.
No. If games are already built to dynamically scale, of course they're not going to prevent that from happening. That'd be silly.
Then the X1 and X1S are going to look like dogshit when people realize how much better they can have it.
Lanrutcon
Member
Thank you thank you.
Now I'm damn interested to see how things progress.
They're gonna look the same as they look now. And people can already look to PC and PS4 to see how much better they could have it.
Yeah despite my frustrations with there unclear messaging (and pretty much dodging VR stuff) I think people are really overplaying this 'what can developers do with 6 teraflops' thing.
Nobody in there right mind would force 4K as a minimum resolution for games, but it's definitely a possible target for games releasing on holiday 2017 hardware, and it's especially a good target for a game that has to run across multiple SKU's since resolution scaling is usually quite linear in terms of performance cost (Hence you see a lot of near identical XB1/PS4 games witht he only difference being resolution). So it's possible, nay likely, that you will see 1080p XB1 games that run at 4K and slightly smoother on Scorpio.
Of course other developers will choose to use the hardware however they please, I expect we'll see a lot of mixed games with dynamic resolutions or checkerboard rendering approaches where the overall visual density is increased in exchange for not quite hitting native 4K all the time.
wesleyshark
Banned
What am I even reading
I assume until Scorpio II comes out and they're working on a cycle.
So same as now when people see the PC version?
Only you can't play PS4 and PC games on the XB1. One of the advantages of consoles is that you don't have to deal with any upgrade nonsense, aside from a generation shift. That's going out the window if Scorpio outperforms the X1/S on 1080p displays. That's an advantage of console gaming gone. MS should admit that, then.
It's in the interview you just watched. Some existing games will look better on Scorpio. Halo 5, for example.
wesleyshark
Banned
They play the same games. What upgrade nonsense? Microsoft doesn't need to admit anything- they've flat out said how it will be.
Again, tell me what you mean exactly, because clearly I am missing something. This is me asking for your help for the good of this debate.
The upgrade nonsense that comes with the possibilities that Scorpio will offer if it is allowed to unleash its power on 1080p displays.
BRocknRolla
Member
So here's realistically what I think it going to happen based on what's happened thus far. There was a thread not to long ago that went into the needed power for 4k gaming vs what something like the Scorpio would be packing, and that it really wasn't quite enough (I thought the number was something like 82% of the way there). Hell, even relatively powerful PCs struggle at this point with 4k30fps. So there are a number of different ways it could happen:
1.) Existing games that aren't pushing existing hardware can just upres to 4k. If somehow there's more power left over, they can put it into other things, but unless the game really had a lot of overhead on the current gen, there shouldn't be a lot of extra room to work with. Smaller games are likely going to easily hit 4k without any real issues.
2.) Games that currently are pushing the hardware to its limits will have two options:
a.) Run at 1080p and put the extra power toward things like framerate, increased textures and shadows, lighting, etc. (The sorts of things you currently tweak on PCs.) You won't however get things like increased geometry, more polygons, etc, because those sorts of upgrades would require a pretty drastic departure in development from the base game, either making a lot of extra work well beyond optimization, or creating a game that can't reliably run on an Xbox One anymore.
b.) Run games at 4k, and potentially need to dial back certain things (The same sort of things they might have otherwise turned up in the previous example.) If the Scorpio could only play that existing game at 82% at 4k, something has to give. This could potentially lead to a situation where a game would look worse in some areas as a result of 4k. Devs could turn those things back up for the 1080p version on Xbox One, but I would be surprised if they would do that given the disparity it could cause.
Thoughts? This is a dilemma that people in PC gaming currently face as it is (Should I go 4k30fps, maybe even with a few things turned down? Or maxed at 1080p60fps?) Seems like exactly the sort of dilemma devs are going to face.
Your example is exactly what I'm talking about. Those sort of things are drastic changes that wouldn't be compatible at 4k. You could get away with doing two different 1080p versions, but what dev is going to want to create two different versions of their game using different assets (Like that basic van versus a complex tank), when they could just adjust the nobs to improve image quality?
The only reason they did this for the 360 and PS3 is because of how massive the community still was on an incompatible platform.
1.) Existing games that aren't pushing existing hardware can just upres to 4k. If somehow there's more power left over, they can put it into other things, but unless the game really had a lot of overhead on the current gen, there shouldn't be a lot of extra room to work with. Smaller games are likely going to easily hit 4k without any real issues.
2.) Games that currently are pushing the hardware to its limits will have two options:
a.) Run at 1080p and put the extra power toward things like framerate, increased textures and shadows, lighting, etc. (The sorts of things you currently tweak on PCs.) You won't however get things like increased geometry, more polygons, etc, because those sorts of upgrades would require a pretty drastic departure in development from the base game, either making a lot of extra work well beyond optimization, or creating a game that can't reliably run on an Xbox One anymore.
b.) Run games at 4k, and potentially need to dial back certain things (The same sort of things they might have otherwise turned up in the previous example.) If the Scorpio could only play that existing game at 82% at 4k, something has to give. This could potentially lead to a situation where a game would look worse in some areas as a result of 4k. Devs could turn those things back up for the 1080p version on Xbox One, but I would be surprised if they would do that given the disparity it could cause.
Thoughts? This is a dilemma that people in PC gaming currently face as it is (Should I go 4k30fps, maybe even with a few things turned down? Or maxed at 1080p60fps?) Seems like exactly the sort of dilemma devs are going to face.
Your example is exactly what I'm talking about. Those sort of things are drastic changes that wouldn't be compatible at 4k. You could get away with doing two different 1080p versions, but what dev is going to want to create two different versions of their game using different assets (Like that basic van versus a complex tank), when they could just adjust the nobs to improve image quality?
The only reason they did this for the 360 and PS3 is because of how massive the community still was on an incompatible platform.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Dont worry link, it'll be a main focul point to sell the Scorpio. Halo fans are the earliest adopters of Xbox i think.
The only issue they will come across is showing the xbox one version to the public. I can't imagine they will show Scorpio and the One version side by side. Then again, im not in marketing so i could be totally wrong LOL.
There definitely was some confusion but I hope some actual objectivity regarding their plans is established, with speculation filling in the remaining cracks for now
Existing dynamic resolution games will be at their max res more of the time on Scorpio. Such as Halo 5. Spencer didn't say anything about framerate improvements, and I'm not sure how that would work. They might need to actually keep framerates the same as they were on base X1 because some games do calculations based on frame ticks.
With the introduction of Scorpio, they can have it much better within the same ecosystem. Please do not get sarcastic here.
Leyasu
Banned
One year is ok lol. I hope that they either bury it, or hire 3rd party devs to do the xbone ports, like what they did with forza horizon 2.
Dynamic res games will do better. On a console that is 4.5x as powerful as the One is now, they will do worlds better. If that's not what you would call 'leaving X1/S owners behind', then I don't know what is.
I think its important to note the difference here between the difference between the 360 and the one and the one and scorpio. Between the 360 and one there is a gulf of graphics tech...360 was dx9 and one is dx11/12. The 360 cannot do tesselation and a range of other graphics tech
Between the one and scorpio should really only be a power difference. The technology differences should be minimal. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong
I would not feel left behind in that case. You can replace the HDD yourself, can't you? Also, you're comparing loading times to resolution, level of detail and framerate? That's just a completely different ballpark, man.
edit: words
jfoul
Member
Watch the whole interview if you have the time. I watched this last night, and it's a great interview. Phil goes over a lot more than just Scorpio.
I'm super excited about Scorpio even though I have a gaming PC. Forza Apex is probably a good indicator of what type of added graphics settings we'll see on something like Forza 7 at launch. Even if Scorpio can't run every game at 4K (3840x2160), it should easily be able to hit 1440p (2560x1440) or something in between (Dynamic).
I would also like to see AMD get Freesync in Scorpio & PS4 Neo. They've shown a demo of it running on HDMI, and I think they're trying to get it into a future HDMI standard revision. Freesync would be great on consoles.
I'm super excited about Scorpio even though I have a gaming PC. Forza Apex is probably a good indicator of what type of added graphics settings we'll see on something like Forza 7 at launch. Even if Scorpio can't run every game at 4K (3840x2160), it should easily be able to hit 1440p (2560x1440) or something in between (Dynamic).
I would also like to see AMD get Freesync in Scorpio & PS4 Neo. They've shown a demo of it running on HDMI, and I think they're trying to get it into a future HDMI standard revision. Freesync would be great on consoles.
I'm in the same boat. Scorpio is a PREMIUM device targetted at people who want to spend more on their hobby. A 399,-€ Scorpio with 1080, 60fps and more bells and whisles for the Gaf crowd is very unlikely at this point and is not what I consider "premium".
For me, a Mac Book Pro and a Surface Pro are premium devices.
You'll get the same Xbox One games just with 4K native resolution, that's it.
Makes sense, because it makes development easier for both machines.
Some devs may choose to lower res for 60fps, but this never going to be Scorpio's usp.
So yes, he was right and wrong with his initial statement. Some games won't do much for you if you don't own a 4K TV, some games may be a huge improvement even on HD TVs.
Only devs will answer this question in the future.
No but there's a different thread discussing this
What? That's clearly not what "no one gets left behind" mean...
Felix Lighter
Member
They are inferior consoles. No one gets left behind, meaning every game is playable on all Xbox One hardware. What would possibly be the point of all the extra power if it render games identically. I can't imagine any reasonable human being would not expect the much more powerful, more expensive hardware, advertised as a more powerful console, advertised to handle 4K gaming, to run games better and look better.
I'm not sure what you mean.
EDiT:
I'm telling you, man. If Scorpio can do what it likes on 1080p displays, it's going to seriously hurt the X1/S and their owners.
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
Do we know if Scorpio will support the Xbox One controllers?
Yes, all accessories will work.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Of course...
Similar threads
- Locked