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[Murdok]

"There's very little role-playing in these mats."

As action games incorporate more RPG elements than ever, they have spent time developing systems that Square Enix could have looked to if they wanted to still call the newest Final Fantasy game an RPG. But while Final Fantasy 16’s combat is often gratifying and rewarding, it is also static for most of my playtime, with a very defined meta.

So where does that leave Final Fantasy 16? For hardcore RPG fans, not a lot, I don’t believe. It reminds me of how CD Projekt Red stealthily re-labeled Cyberpunk 2077 from RPG to Open-World Adventure before re-labeling the game an RPG following a series of gameplay updates. Square Enix’s inclusion of Role-Playing Game as the genre alongside “Action” on Final Fantasy 16’s PSN page feels almost perfunctory.

"Ironically, the RPG-ification of action games means genre staples like God of War and Ghost of Tsushima offer more opportunities for tailoring the combat to a specific playstyle than Square Enix’s latest."

God of War Is More of an RPG Than Final Fantasy 16 - IGN

Final Fantasy 16 notably went all in on the action gameplay, but aside from combat there's very little in Square Enix's newest Final Fantasy game that could be considered an RPG.

www.ign.com

 

[Skull-Knight]

GOW:R should have been the same as the ff 16 (as action and scale)

 

[HazukiSensei]

And god of war is a worse game for it.
Missing the older titles pacing and creative ways to switch up encounters and puzzles.

The idea of...Kratos as a character shouldnt be in a situation where he is "underleveled" for a common grunt. Ruins god of war as a concept. I blame the modern era high brows that think RPG equates to higher level gaming or something.

As for final fantasy 16...I'd argue the original kingdom hearts is a better example of a game that did rpg with live action combat in "square style".

I'd be more excited about ff16 if It had that combat but with a...rpg storytelling and pacing style like that. Seems to me ff16 wont have say...a traverse town or something like that. Does it?

 

[Crayon]

I haven't played 16 so.. actually I haven't played God of war Ragnarok either. I played the first one.

Anyway, I think a lot of people are in denial about how much games have converged into a general modern action adventure.

My favorite example is comparing Witcher 3 to horizon ZD. I think most would agree that Witcher is more of an RPG than horizon, but it gets interesting when you stop to think of why. It's a lot of superficial things, and things that just vary to some small degree.

I really like final fantasy 7r, but it has lighter RPG elements compared to how much it's focused on the action. Cutscenes are longer than usual, there are safe areas with NPCs and little side quests. There's numbers that go up. Lots of items to collect.

General open world games have that stuff, maybe in less degrees. Sometimes they have more stuff, like crafting, factions, classes and other things that we associate more with an RPG and arguably can make them more of an RPG than final fantasy 7r.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

The combat is fine and enjoyable, but they definitely could have put more development time or effort into the RPG aspects of it to make it a more full package and I think the reception would not be as critical in that regard.

I'm honestly baffled and not sure why they didn't.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Ragnarok is better than FF XVI but they're both dull experiences. Less focused tested games please.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Unpopular opinion: FF was never much of an RPG.

Sure, you used to have more options but that the end of day you character still ends up the same.
For me, in an RPG, your choices have huge impacts at how you character plays. Say you either a mage or a soldier at the end. Both God of War and FF do not really have that.

 

[Dynasty8]

Not just GoW, even Assassins' Creed and other games too.

I personally hate that the depth from previous FF entries is basically gone here.

 

[EviLore]

Tetris is more of an RPG than FFXVI.

 

[Wildebeest]

Any game that people want to call an RPG can be called an RPG now. It is the worst imaginable sort of war crime to deny the coveted "RPG" genre label to any game that asks for it.

 

[Raonak]

Yeah it's true. Ragnarok (moreso than 2018) did a good job at making gear feel distinct enough to warrant the gear system. A lot of them have distinct built in abilities which made it an interesting choice to go with one over the other.

I think 16 has fantastic combat, but it doesn't seem to change much.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Unpopular opinion: FF was never much of an RPG.

Sure, you used to have more options but that the end of day you character still ends up the same.
For me, in an RPG, your choices have huge impacts at how you character plays. Say you either a mage or a soldier at the end. Both God of War and FF do not really have that.

Most JRPGs aren’t really RPGs. I see the label “JRPG” more like just the name of a genre than a description of what you do in the game.

Man just imagine how many pedantic internet arguments could’ve been prevented if that genre had a more accurate name like “anime adventure with experience points”

 

[Skifi28]

I'm not even sure what an RPG is these days. Either everything is or nothing is.

 

[Roman Empire]

One thing the new GoW games are missing from their predecessors is SCALE. FFXVI is a character action game with lite RPG mechanics (the bare minimum, scraping the bottom of the barrel on that front) with amazing scale in the Eikon battles that surpass what we would expect from the spectacle of the likes of old God of War games.

I love both games but GoW lost that aspect with the new games. And I'd wish for the next mainline FF game to have more RPG elements to it as well. Gearing was the most inconsequential thing in this entry, what only mattered was the Eikonic abilities (the highlight of the battle system) and a few accessories.

 

[Ansphn]

I agree because of armor but they're both action RPGs. What FF16 has is everything God of War lost since GOW 3 : The boss fights on a huge scale. FF16 also has more side quests. Way more actually.

 

[gow3isben]

I get the comments that FF16 has more bombastic moments and set pieces than Ragnarok that is very true. It has the best set pieces ever. But don’t dare say its pacing is better. Pacing is awful and drags it down from GOTY to just a very fun, flawed game.

 

[Whitecrow]

You got it wrong.
FF XVI is more GoW than GoW:R

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Even Horizon ZD/FW.


Let that sink in

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm not even sure what an RPG is these days. Either everything is or nothing is.

A label they throw into anything that has levels and xp in it.

 

[R6Rider]

GT7 is an RPG

 

[Guilty_AI]

GT7 is an RPG

i remember the times when TDU was advertised as MMO Car RPG

 

[Meicyn]

FFXVI’s extremely limited RPG elements are a detriment to the game’s design. This is epitomized by the game’s itemization, where you have a sword called “Excalibur”, the one named after the sword wielded by King Arthur. When you have access to forging it, it gives you like, +5 damage versus some arbitrary sword you made earlier. And it is 2 points weaker than some other sword you can also make in generally the same point of the game’s story depending on your level of engagement with side content. And it is promptly replaced at the next story beat by a “Diamond Sword” or some other generic weapon.

The game is a character action game with a combat system you can’t even fully engage with until you’ve almost beaten the game and thus finally have access to all aspects of it. It’s honestly pretty meh.

 

[R6Rider]

i remember the times when TDU was advertised as MMO Car RPG

CarPG

 

[Corndog]

I'm not even sure what an RPG is these days. Either everything is or nothing is.

It’s certainly evolved. Originally it was being able to play your character however you wanted like in Bethesda games. Now it just seems games with different gear or magic systems.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Well games like Mass Effect are the only "REAL" role-playing games. By that I mean you actually play a role where you can choose how you interact with other people as opposed to just building up stats. You're actually, you know, role playing.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I've been noticing a lot of the incendiary language IGN and places are using without actually slandering the game itself. Like they decided behind doors that they were going to try this back handed compliment tack this time because outright calling for boycotts didn't work with Hogwarts Legacy and they knew this game was going to sell regardless of how forcefully they screamed and kicked.

Granted this is an observation and not a complaint, I think it's hilarious watching Flies sustaining themselves on what they claim a large shit.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I get the comments that FF16 has more bombastic moments and set pieces than Ragnarok that is very true. It has the best set pieces ever. But don’t dare say its pacing is better. Pacing is awful and drags it down from GOTY to just a very fun, flawed game.

Yeah because the glacial pacing in Ragnarok sure was so much better.

 

[MagiusNecros]

FF16 appeals to a broader casual audience. It lacks the DnD roots the first Final Fantasies always used to have. Final Fantasy is now about cinematic story driven narratives.

The older FF audience is being left behind in favor of Spectacle Fighter Action genre.

 

[German Hops]

 

[Valonquar]

I mean all they had to do was include some status aliments, catuars and tonberries as at least a hunt mob, and like 25 random other pieces of gear as quest\hunt rewards instead of the same 5 crafting materials fuckin EVERYWHERE. Maybe give me the ability to fully turn into Ifrit, or summon one of the others every 15 to 20 battles for a cinematic crowd clearer too while we're at it.

GoW:R was just fine as is, but I think it would have been better to end it a little LESS open. Of course they can't stop printing money n all but still.

 

[semiconscious]

my grandfather is more of an rpg than ffxvi (& he's deceased, god rest his soul)...

 

[Raven117]

It’s a far worse game though…. So there’s that.

Cool point I guess

 

[somesang]

Kind of disagree. I rp as Clive when I play FF16, and I rp as Kratos when I play GoW.

GoW has Atreus and FF has Torgal.

If anything they’re the exact same game with different skins.

 

[Barakov]

I like FF16 quite a bit. Is it a Final Fantasy game? Probably, tangentially. Is an a RPG? No. It's an action game with RPG trappings. I'll be honest, I'm a bit sad it went down this road. The Final Fantasy 7 Remake did a much better job of keeping it a RPG while trying to appeal to the MODERN audience Square is chasing.

 

[HazukiSensei]

Unpopular opinion: FF was never much of an RPG.

Sure, you used to have more options but that the end of day you character still ends up the same.
For me, in an RPG, your choices have huge impacts at how you character plays. Say you either a mage or a soldier at the end. Both God of War and FF do not really have that.

With that line of thinking any character driven rpg isnt an rpg lol only open world western rpg's apply. Jrpg's dont.

Even the witcher, which has branching paths,choices, leveled enemies with no level scaling. Wouldnt qualify lol

 

[Fake]

Can't say about Ragnarok, but GoW 2018 do have some RPG elements.

 

[RoboFu]

It should have been an off shoot and not a numbered mainline game.
Now it will just go down as the worst FF.

 

[Synless]

It should have been an off shoot and not a numbered mainline game.
Now it will just down as the worst FF.

No it won’t. It will go down like every other FF game, divisive.

 

[mitch1971]

And god of war is a worse game for it.

Fuck yeah!

 

[Housh]

I can say I enjoyed FF16 way more than GOW:R.

 

[cireza]

Oh wow, FF XVI ended up being exactly what it looked like it was going to be from the first day.

YouWaShock.gif

 

[HazukiSensei]

Well games like Mass Effect are the only "REAL" role-playing games. By that I mean you actually play a role where you can choose how you interact with other people as opposed to just building up stats. You're actually, you know, role playing.

Witcher 3 also

 

[HazukiSensei]

FF16 appeals to a broader casual audience. It lacks the DnD roots the first Final Fantasies always used to have. Final Fantasy is now about cinematic story driven narratives.

The older FF audience is being left behind in favor of Spectacle Fighter Action genre.

Well thing is its less rpg than even kingdom hearts 1 lol and there isnt any reason for it to be, you can essentially have this same combat system in a game like that. "Casual" just means "no depth" at this point.

 

[gow3isben]

Yeah because the glacial pacing in Ragnarok sure was so much better.

The lesser of 2 evils.

Ragnarok is bad. But FF16 pacing and frequency of extremely low quality side and main quests is criminal.

Which is a shame as the 20% of Good side quests are Witcher level and when the main quests hit they are unparalleled bombastic fun.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I can say I enjoyed FF16 way more than GOW:R.

Yup, levels of magnitude more actually.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Mass Effect are the only "REAL" role-playing games

Witcher 3 also

lmao

 

[Alebrije]

FF16 appeals to a broader casual audience. It lacks the DnD roots the first Final Fantasies always used to have. Final Fantasy is now about cinematic story driven narratives.

The older FF audience is being left behind in favor of Spectacle Fighter Action genre.

I have been playing FF since Nes era but left the ip because they have been experimenting its gameplay since X...
I Returned to 16 because finally they deliver a decent gameplay...for 17 Square just need to improve RPG elements and sidequests and we can get a game like the Witcher. On the last years they tried to mix turn based with action gameay and clearly wont work. Its good to see they finally adopted the Action adventure style and honestly it performs very well on FF16

The problem with turn based RPG is that current generations dont like to spend time waiting for "combat" and get bored easier...FF16 gameplay suits better for these consumers.

 

[HazukiSensei]

lmao

Give some better examples lol

 

[Guilty_AI]

Give some better examples lol

Literally most crpgs out there, old and new. Mass Effect and The Witcher 3 are basically action adventure games with some branching paths, The Witcher 3 in particular fails completely at being anything like a RPG, with some of the shittiest character building and itemization i've seen.

 

[rofif]

Yeah and ff16 is all that much better for it