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God of War won't have multiplayer, won't be Kratos' final game

I'm not blind to them, I just don't see them anywhere near as significant as others. He's different, so what? Kratos 1 is different from Kratos 2, who is different from Kratos 3, who is different from Kratos Ascension. 2 is when he is at his rageyest and most screaming, 3 shows him with a bit of a sardonic sense of humor and a showing affection for a child, while Ascension has him slightly more considerate of others. I wrote up what I thought of the reveal in the E3 GoW thread, but honestly, people overblow this "HE FOUND HIS HEART" bs quite a bit. He had plenty of 'I am feeling emotions" scenes in the previous games as well.

Having replayed all of the game over the last week (including PSP games and just now starting on GoW 3), I don't think that's true. He's really unfiltered rage all through GoW 1. It's there in the opening scene of demanding to be free of his nightmares and it never stops. GoW 2 amps it up with the revenge piece but there are really only two quiet moments that aren't rage: the death of the last Spartan soldier and Athena's death (both moments are immediately followed with more rage though).

Honestly there was probably more mellow in the E3 GoW4 demo than all of the prior games combined.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Rage of Sparta has been exclusively used to rip enemies faces off in GoW. People get mad. Not everyone uses Rage of Sparta. Kratos almost used Spartan rage.

I know that by his actions, he just got mad, but I don't know why they showed the Rage of Sparta meter filling up if not to imply the consequences of what he'd do if unleashed.



I'm not blind to them, I just don't see them anywhere near as significant as others. He's different, so what? Kratos 1 is different from Kratos 2, who is different from Kratos 3, who is different from Kratos Ascension. 2 is when he is at his rageyest and most screaming, 3 shows him with a bit of a sardonic sense of humor and a showing affection for a child, while Ascension has him slightly more considerate of others. I wrote up what I thought of the reveal in the E3 GoW thread, but honestly, people overblow this "HE FOUND HIS HEART" bs quite a bit. He had plenty of 'I am feeling emotions" scenes in the previous games as well.

Besides, my problem, if I were to put it in a nut shell, isn't that Kratos is angry, it's that he's goddamn stupid. That, if the trailer is anything to go by, hasn't changed.

I agree that it's too early to praise the changes. I don't see what evidence there is of stupidity in the trailer.
 

Nibel

Member
Implementing MP in a series like that is stupid, should instead focus on making the game enjoyable enough to replay or add challenges and shit.

And I fully expect GOW4 to be the start of a new trilogy
 

Veelk

Banned
Having replayed all of the game over the last week (including PSP games and just now starting on GoW 3), I don't think that's true. He's really unfiltered rage all through GoW 1. It's there in the opening scene of demanding to be free of his nightmares and it never stops. GoW 2 amps it up with the revenge piece but there are really only two quiet moments that aren't rage: the death of the last Spartan soldier and Athena's death (both moments are immediately followed with more rage though).

Honestly there was probably more mellow in the E3 GoW4 demo than all of the prior games combined.

I wasn't saying him as a rage machine wasn't there, but people act like Kratos was nothing but a rage machine. People might call him that as a generalization, but it simply isn't literally true. GoW2 is where it comes closest, but it had more. Specifically, when he has the flashback to his wife, and he says "I'm so sorry". Aw, he has fweelings.

Mellow is such a relative term here that it borders on useless. I mean, we're acting like Kratos showed some other emotion than rage. Most of the demo, he was emotionless. He stated needs and goals ("I'm hungry. Get me a deer. Find it.") in the most straightlaced and plain manner. He depicted neither pride, nor joy, nor sadness, or nor humor. He was either stoic or he was angry.

So yeah, I don't disagree. Kratos is a changed man. But he's not showing any kind of emotional dimensions here nor is it nearly as great a change of character as people are trying to say. He's...less angry and out of control. It's a marginal change that I don't view as more significant than him becoming more humorous in the shift to 3.

And either way, this is beside the point. As I said, my problem with Kratos wasn't anger. That was tangential at best. It's his stupidity that makes me dislike him.

I agree that it's too early to praise the changes. I don't see what evidence there is of stupidity in the trailer.

When you break down the hunt of the deer, it makes very little sense, but the part of note is that it when the boy looses an arrow and misses, Kratos yells angrily that now it will be on it's guard. But he's wrong. Literally three minutes later, the Deer is calmly chewing on some grass not 50 feet away from the giant and remarkably loud troll battle that happened.

Now, lets back up and admit that this is one really dumb ass fucking deer. The boy's yelling when he found the tracks didn't scare it off, it wasn't scared off when it literally ran into the boy except to run away a few feet, and then somehow didn't run away from the booming sounds of giant troll battle literally shattering the ice river, thinking it was safe it because it lightly jogged a couple feet. Maybe this deer was the equivelent of Alan Wake and can't run for more than 5 seconds without having to catch his breathe. Regardless, it's a miracle this fucking thing didn't die from walking itself into a cave and putting its neck inside some bears jaws before Kratos ever got hungry. Natural selection got lazy I guess

But of all the comments I read on the game and with how the narrative is depicting him as the learned hunter who is passing on his wisdom onto his child, no one seems to have pointed out that, by the evidence of the game's events themselves, Kratos is an ignorant shit whose one of the two pieces of advice to his kid was dead fucking wrong. The other piece was "think of the deer as a target". Yeah, thanks Kratos, where would your kid be without having to have it pointed out to him that a deer is a target. But that would mean we have to acknowledge Kratos as incompetent, and if there's one thing we can't have, it's that.

From the E3 thread. Dumbass doesn't know how to hunt shit.
 

wapplew

Member
I think multiplayer is possible for this GoW, it's look like soulborne and soulborne have great multiplayer.
I get they want to nail the single player this time, maybe next GoW.
 

Bishop89

Member
You guys have to remember 3 takes place EXACTLY where 2 finishes, so you cant expect him to change character at all between games. And you probably cant expect him to change by the end of 3 either. Doesn't the game take place in like 1 day, how much growth is someone going to have over the pursuit of revenge in a day.
 

Rodelero

Member
When I see so many people dismissing Ascension's multiplayer, I kind of laugh to myself, and I kind of cry, for it was an absolutely amazing mode which more than made up for the single player's shortcomings.
 
I'm very happy there's no multiplayer,for a game like this keep it solo,heavy story driven.While at no point did I think this would be the last one,so that doesn't surprise me
 

Veelk

Banned
Sounds to me like the writing is dumb. They can fix that.

What is the difference? Kratos a character. He is as he is written. If the writing is dumb, then he is dumb. It's just not acknowledged, because if it were lampshaded how hilariously incompetent he is and has been throughout the games, he lose appeal as the male power fantasy.

Stuff like that is in all the games in one form or another. Even if they fix this particular instance, I have no doubt we'll find plenty of it in the full game. Assuming they do fix this, which I doubt, because I feel I'm the only one who noticed it. In fairness, it is a minor point, but if they don't care about getting basic facts straight within their own universe, then I have little indication they improved upon Kratos' other rationalizations and hypocrisies.
 
So yeah, I don't disagree. Kratos is a changed man. But he's not showing any kind of emotional dimensions here nor is it nearly as great a change of character as people are trying to say. He's...less angry and out of control. It's a marginal change that I don't view as more significant than him becoming more humorous in the shift to 3.

Yeah, it's still the same Kratos deep down. Which is a good thing- I'd rather they keep a character consistent. But Kratos in the previous games was a guy who had no filter. Period. He was all id, all the time. At no point after he kills his family does he have any sense of self reflection. He's been wronged so he wants revenge, full stop. Doesn't matter if the world ends in the process. By the time that GoW 3 starts he is essentially just a relentess force of nature which is hammered home when you get that POV shot from Poseidon as Kratos slowly stalks and kills him.

With GoW4 it seems like it's that same character who is now making an active effort to fight his base instincts. Which makes him far more human that what we had seen previously and presumably closer to the original Spartan Captain who seemingly was able to at least maintain some sense of a familial bond.

What is the difference? Kratos a character. He is as he is written. If the writing is dumb, then he is dumb. It's just not acknowledged, because if it were lampshaded how hilariously incompetent he is and has been throughout the games, he lose appeal as the male power fantasy.
While I doubt that will change much in the final game, Barlog did state that the demo ending was changed to give the demo it's own little story and that something different happens in the full game that will form the foundation of the game's story.
 
When I see so many people dismissing Ascension's multiplayer, I kind of laugh to myself, and I kind of cry, for it was an absolutely amazing mode which more than made up for the single player's shortcomings.

Inb4 "tacked on" "takes away from single player resources" blah blah.

I agree with you, I had a lot of fun with Ascension MP. There are just some weird Gaffers who get annoyed anytime the possibility of MP is introduced to SP franchises. I don't know why. There are plenty of games that do both exceptionally well.
 
I have one question that this E3 wasnt able to properly answer.

I get this new GoW features a man named Kratos but... is he the exact same character from the previous 6 games on PS2, PS3 and PSP? Or is he a Kratos in a parallel dimension or a reincarnation of sorts? Because the Kratos I saw on the E3 conference had shit to say other than grunts and screams while also showing compassion for another human being. He seemed more than a one-note boring character like he was in the past games and his voice actor isnt even the same one.

Are we supposed to believe this is the exact same character that destroyed all the Greek gods, was the son of Zeus, and had severe anger issues?

The more different this Kratos is from past Kratos is better for me. I was done with that asshole after GoW3.
 
I really hope the QTE sex scenes are gone for good. They added nothing except maybe titillation for teenage virgins and were good for a laugh the first time. Shit just got old after that.

This.

They were great fun in GoW1 because they were like nothing we've seen before and it was funny because of how unexpected they were. But after they started adding them in every one as a staple it felt forced and boring.
 

Veelk

Banned
Yeah, it's still the same Kratos deep down. Which is a good thing- I'd rather they keep a character consistent. But Kratos in the previous games was a guy who had no filter. Period. He was all id, all the time. At no point after he kills his family does he have any sense of self reflection. He's been wronged so he wants revenge, full stop. Doesn't matter if the world ends in the process. By the time that GoW 3 starts he is essentially just a relentess force of nature which is hammered home when you get that POV shot from Poseidon as Kratos slowly stalks and kills him.

Again, not true. He has moments of reflection in GoW1, in GoW2, and it is the basis of his entire emotional struggle with Pandora.

This narrative that Kratos was nothing more than a rage monster until GoW4 came along is pure revisionism. I'm not saying those moments were often and I'm sure as shit not saying they were good, but he didn't suddenly develop feelings besides rage just now.

And you know what? Not a lot of people were big fans of his suddenly developed feelings for Pandora either. Because it was poorly written. Which is the actual problem of Kratos' narrative, not that he was angry, which is why I'm neither interested nor impressed that they are doing something as marginally different as "wow, he didn't rip his son's head off for missing! He is born again!"

While I doubt that will change much in the final game, Barlog did state that the demo ending was changed to give the demo it's own little story and that something different happens in the full game that will form the foundation of the game's story.

Well, to make Kratos not hilariously wrong about the deer being 'on it's guard', that won't take much fixing, but if they want to make the sequences believable, they'd have to redo the entire hunting section. As it is, they are hunting the world's dumbest deer. It's a wonder the thing didn't prance off the side of a cliff long before.
 
Again, not true. He has moments of reflection in GoW1, in GoW2, and it is the basis of his entire emotional struggle with Pandora.

This narrative that Kratos was nothing more than a rage monster until GoW4 came along is pure revisionism. I'm not saying those moments were often and I'm sure as shit not saying they were good, but he didn't suddenly develop feelings besides rage just now.

Again, just played through the CoO, GOW1, GoS, and GoW 2 over the last 7 days. The moments of self reflection are nothing. Yes there are brief pauses of "What have I done?" but he doesn't change his path at all. "Oh, I feel bad that I accidentally killed Athena. Instead of reflecting on why she would sacrifice herself for Zeus I will just double down and add it to the revenge tally."

There was also that nice piece in GoW2 where he does briefly think of hanging up the blades until Gaia urges him on. But it's over in a minute.

It takes until the end of GoW 3 for Kratos to finally think he's gone too far but by that point he has already destroyed the world.
 

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
At this point kratos is iconic. People love the character and the series cannot exist without him.

The lack of mp is great news. It was a shit show in gowa and wasted time and resources to be made.
 

Veelk

Banned
Again, just played through the CoO, GOW1, GoS, and GoW 2 over the last 7 days. The moments of self reflection are nothing. Yes there are brief pauses of "What have I done?" but he doesn't change his path at all. "Oh, I feel bad that I accidentally killed Athena. Instead of reflecting on why she would sacrifice herself for Zeus I will just double down and add it to the revenge tally."

There was also that nice piece in GoW2 where he does briefly think of hanging up the blades until Gaia urges him on. But it's over in a minute.

It takes until the end of GoW 3 for Kratos to finally think he's gone too far but by that point he has already destroyed the world.

Which doesn't make him what you describe him as. You said he was pure id, pure rage. No, there was thinking behind his actions. He wasn't intellectually ignorant that Athena's, his only friend on olympus, sacrifice, he just doesn't care. He said it himself "If all of Olympus will stand before me, all of Olympus will fall!" So he's intellectually considered the worth of Olympus, weighed the option of honoring his friends wish and a decision was made. Kratos looked at both options, and chose to go with the one he felt was most right: his revenge. That's not id, that's superego. Id doesn't weigh options, it just does.

Now you may say that him fucking over the world is an irrational choice, yeah, making him kinda stupid....which, yeah, sure. But don't make up this new narrative that he is going by pure instinct, not considering that he might destroy the world over this whole thing. That's not his characterization. He willfully chooses the destruction of the world for the sake of his own purposes. That doesn't happen because he's unable to control himself, that happens because he's an evil asshole.

And btw, you're moving the goalposts a bit. First, you were claiming he didn't have those moments. Now you're claiming they have to move him to a different action than he would otherwise. But what about the GoW4 demo changed? So he told the kid to hunt the deer instead of screaming it at him. If you want to make that argument, then I could argue just as easily that his compassion for Pandora caused him to kill Hera when he wouldn't have done so otherwise, which inflicted a bigger change on the narrative than not yelling at his kid did.
 

neurosyphilis

Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
Sony kills it with these single player story driven experiences. The best at it. Not every game needs shitty multiplayer.

-d0hv
 

MaxHouse

Banned
Do you guys think Kratos is going to tell his son


that he killed his first family...just think of how intense that scene would be
 
Do you guys think Kratos is going to tell his son


that he killed his first family...just think of how intense that scene would be
What if
it's revealed to him by someone else and the trilogy takes place over a few years, setting his own son up as the villain in the end.
 
I never thought I would say this prior to the reveal but I'm ok with this. They seem to have made Kratos a much more interesting character. His shtick of constantly just being angry and screaming had gotten old but he seems much more layered and thoughtful now. I'm actually excited to see what they do with him
 

Veelk

Banned
We obviously disagree but I didn't move the goal posts. I did acknowledge the moments in GoW 2 in my original post.

I didn't say you didn't. However, what you're moving is that now not only do reflective moments have to exist, but they also have to alter the course of the narrative. My argument was never that they altered the narrative, one of the things that makes them poorly written, but they most certainly are there and you can't ignore them as counterpoints to your general argument of kratos being 'pure id' when they prove he's not. If they weren't there, you'd have a point, but instead he's superego that's willfully choosing death and vengeance and disregard for his family, friends, and the world.

Also, I still fail to see how this new distinction, that they have to be moments that change the narrative, is reflected in the reveal trailer. Unless we really are arguing that Kratos filling up his Spartan Rage meter would have resulted in him ripping his kid's head off, I ask again, what is the difference between him yelling at his kid vs just sternly ordering him?
 

Acosta

Member
Of course not, because he will be the final boss in God of War 2' once we take control of his enraged adult son.
 

Thewonandonly

Junior Member
I have a crazy story theory that I think might be it.

"This game is about you protecting your son (who is actually thor's son) from the other gods because you don't want him to turn out like them. They keep pushing harder and harder to get to the kid until Kratos has to take it into his own hands and kill the gods. Suddenly the last God of the game comes out and it's Thor. Thor says that he wants to talk to his boy And teach him to be a god. Kratos says no because he doesn't want him to be as bloodthirsty as Thor and the gods are. Kratos kills Thor then but the boy saw and heard the whole thing. The game ends with the boy running away"

Game 2: You play as the boy at the beginning searching for where the gods are. You find them and they start telling you about Kratos and teaching you how to be a god. Then it switches to Kratos and the rest of the game is you trying to find your son. You finally find him but now the boy wants to kill Kratos so you have to fight him. After a epic battle you can land a killing blow on the boy but growing attached to him you don't"

Game 3: The boy teams up with you again to take out the bloodthirsty Norse gods. As the boy and Kratos have stopped believing that gods are good for humanity. At the after you and the boy have killed the gods you see one of those big flying ships from God of Egypt go by. You look at the boy, he says "are you ready".
 

Malice215

Member
No multiplayer sounds great to me because I don't want to see resources wasted on another tacked on multiplayer mode.

And Kratos going around killing all the Norse gods wouldn't make sense and defeat the purpose of rebooting his character, so I'm really interested in seeing where they take this story and what his motivations are.
 

MaxHouse

Banned
Have they explained how Kratos has been dropped into a Norse setting? Because that's still a bit jarring for me.

he moved

Greece was pretty much destroyed at the end, He killed all the Olympians and flooded the world.. could of took a boat...could of traveled all around Europe after the events of 3 or something and found Scandinavia as a perfect place far away from Greece
 

Sorral

Member
Reading lots of posts in here, it is pretty obvious not many gave the GoW:A MP a chance just because it is "MP was added."

A shame really, considering how good and unique that MP was in the whole genre.
Sure MP isn't "needed," but man, it definitely was so fun to play after trying it.

As for Kratos being in more GoW games, that was never an issue for me and sounds even better considering his current changes because those changes wouldn't be there for just one game now and might open more room for even bigger changes to his character.
 
Honestly, as a lapsed God of War fan who has come to LOATHE Kratos, I'm interested to see his new character arc.

Never would I have thought a God of War game would have me interested again. I just hope it's fun to play.
 
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