I always bet on Goku because of american comics fans lol.
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Goku Vs. Superman - Settled Once and For All
- Thread starter Vanish
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I always bet on Goku because of american comics fans lol.
Buu was the best enemy.
Both extremes are terrible.
For me the Goku vs Vegeta fights are the only enjoyable bits. That arc of jealousy -> pure hate -> bitter acceptance -> odd pride | is kinda neat.
Yeah, Captain America is the new Jesus! He died for YOUR SINS.
We're arguing about Goku being able to wield Mjolnir or not, get with the program.
What's the lore behind who can lift it? Is it canon that The Hulk can't?
Manmademan
Member
emceegramr seems to agree with me, at least so far as Vegeta mentioning super saiyans existed previously. Since I'm not in the mood to re-watch all of DBZ to be extra sure, this debate is over with as far as I'm concerned.
It doesn't, which is why I listed all of the other half dozen or so MA's that have mastered all known styles and don't qualify. Your comprehension is bad. Skill alone, no matter how good does not appear to be the criteria.
I mentioned cap's mastery as his criteria for being a genius, and he is. That skill though is NOT the qualifier for lifting the hammer. Eric Masterson had NO combat skill. He was an architect. again, Combat skill is NOT the criteria. Take away Goku's combat skill, and there's not a lot left to argue with. He's a combat savant, but outside of it very much an idiot.
I think the issue here is that I'm debating from a position of knowing the characters, and you aren't. No one that's actually picked up an avengers comic in the last 30 years would question this, since Marvel has been doing it for decades. Everyone genuflects to Steve Rogers. He was a legend during WWII, a legend when they pulled him from the ice, a legend in the present day, and as i pointed out STILL a legend in 2099 after the heroic age had ended and society was in decline. I'm not being one sided, I'm telling you what marvel's position on the character is.
And no, there are no scans that spell out why Odin thinks captain america is worthy, nor are there scans as to why they think masterson was or BRB. It's been left deliberately vague. But there is a lot more similarity between Goku and superman (who cannot lift it) than there is between Goku and BRB, or Goku and Captain America. THATS why I think he does not qualify. Skill isn't enough, and "pure heartedness" apparently isn't a criteria.
with that, I'm off to bed. it's obscenely early on the east coast.
And there are hilariously racist comics with superman beating up on the japanese during WWII. DC's position on Superman though is largely the same.
Goku v Vegeta was always good stuff, but Buu was on another level. He fought a piece of candy. Candy! That's hilarious and amazing.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
All I know about Thor I got from that movie with Natalie Portman and the Avengers movie too. Just from that it *seems* like it is a universe that Goku wouldn't have any trouble handling whatsoever.
*hides from the incoming stampede of angry Thor fans*
*hides from the incoming stampede of angry Thor fans*
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Goku would destroy Superman. Haha how you people can argue that is beyond me. The "sun" arguement is a non arguement Goku stopped and deflected energy attacks that were basically the sun. Superman going invisible is another non arguement, Goku can sense Ki/ Chi. And we're talking about the most powerful Goku vs. the most powerful Superman, nobody knows the power of adult Goku as he appeared in the final epide of GT. He was already the strongest in the universe as a kid, since they age slower and since Pan (who has Saiyan blood) was a granny in that ep.), Goku could be unimaginably more powerful than he was as a "kid".
So Goku teleports to a universe with a red sun, but even then, the Dragon Ball Z - Earth sun looks a bit red.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They had Superman in Dragon Ball.
He was rather unimpressive. He just mimicked flight by riding on a skateboard on his belly. Also very short.
He was rather unimpressive. He just mimicked flight by riding on a skateboard on his belly. Also very short.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Thor wins because he was played by Chris Hemworth.
He's so dreamy. <3
That "he's adopted" line in the Avengers is probably the best line in the entire movie.
I'm partial to Cap's "It seems to run on some kind of electricity!" myself.
Man, they made Cap such a chump in that movie.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Superman, Thor, Goku - pfft, they all just use trickery and illusions anyway.
We all know who the real hero is.
We all know who the real hero is.
SolarPowered
Member
Goku isn't even the extreme in the anime/manga world. There are tons of characters with insane powers that move way past him. Supes is probably the definition of a broke hero since people like to bring up pre crisis, super boy prime or some other nonsense and they always throw me for a loop(seriously, some of the stuff I've read is fucken nuts).
Saiyans>Magic
I don't even know. Maybe Kai based fusion makes you more immune to magic? It's the only way I can explain how Gotenks was eaten while Vegitto turned into the universe's strongest jawbreaker.
Vegeta mentioned it but there was no proof of that having been the actual case. As you said, it was never fully addressed in the manga or anime. So until there is proof of that, Goku was the first super saiyajin.
My comprehension is fine, it's that you have no clear definition of what makes someone worthy of wielding the Mjolnir. The only thing that's been brought forward is that Goku is extremely reluctant to kill in a fight.
Oh, so take away the martial arts Goku has trained in since he was a kid is something that you can do all non-chalantly but you know, let's ignore the fact that Captain America only is where he is because he took some fucking experimental drugs. Okay, pal.
I'm not reading through 30 years of garbage comic history. You made a claim, I questioned the claim, the onus is on you to prove evidence to support your claim. You have done nothing other than spew off facts and skew everything in favor of Steven Rogers. Unless you're some head honcho at Marvel, your opinion doesn't mean diddly to me. Prove it with the comics so we can actually further along a debate.
Okay, so it all boils down to "I think." Cool story, bro. Go night night.
Was referring to the fans.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Thor holds back against mortals. He can be absurd when he goes all out though.
same
SolarPowered
Member
Oh Jeez
How did I not notice that? Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just here to shoot the shit and watch the fireworks. These versus threads are fun to go through every once in a while lol.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well, even the scenes where he fought against those ice monsters in Jotunheim seemed unimpressive, by Goku standards I mean.
Since we're talking about stupid stuff have you guys ever seen How It Should Have Ended?
Sometimes they can be funny.
I like this one with Mario a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vDtZeo1YQ
Sometimes they can be funny.
I like this one with Mario a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vDtZeo1YQ
One thing I suspected for a long time while reading comics was that comic book writers have only a passing understanding of what 'infinity' or 'infinite' actually entails.
This thread has confirmed that they have no damn clue what the word means at all.
FWIW: People need to stop talking about The Flash losing to Captain Boomerang and shit. If we assume within these fights that each person goes all-out, then Flash would kill his entire rogues gallery within seconds and obliterate all crime on Earth.
This thread has confirmed that they have no damn clue what the word means at all.
FWIW: People need to stop talking about The Flash losing to Captain Boomerang and shit. If we assume within these fights that each person goes all-out, then Flash would kill his entire rogues gallery within seconds and obliterate all crime on Earth.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They're supposed to be a legitimate threat to the Asgardians, so yeah, Thor's not going to look super powerful against them.
The leader of the ice giants is basically Iceman infused with the power cosmic. Pretty much like trying to kill cold.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The depths of nerdery that this thread is plumbing is fascinating. I don't mean that derisively or mockingly, either. This is fun to read.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Bleh, none of them can defeat Squirrel Girl anyways 
LightOfTruth
Member
Wow that video was freaking awesome. I wanted Goku to win too but I cant argue with the evidence the video presented.
Looking forward to Man of Steel also.
Looking forward to Man of Steel also.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
....."evidence"...?
Speaking of which, whose the director for Man of Steel? Still Singer? Because that guy has never made any movie that I consider good yet.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
....."evidence"...?
Speaking of which, whose the director for Man of Steel? Still Singer? Because that guy has never made any movie that I consider good yet.
Zack Snyder.
This probably doesn't help your anticipation levels any.
hydragonwarrior
Member
I love these debates.
And I like both DC and DBZ, but I'll have to hand it to Goku, purely based on cartoons and not the comics.
I mean, no cartoon has demonstrated a Superman that can destroy a planet - Goku can theoretically. Also if it was a laser beam one on one, I think Goku would win hands down.
And I like both DC and DBZ, but I'll have to hand it to Goku, purely based on cartoons and not the comics.
I mean, no cartoon has demonstrated a Superman that can destroy a planet - Goku can theoretically. Also if it was a laser beam one on one, I think Goku would win hands down.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
So vegeta could lift the hammer and be done with it.
LightOfTruth
Member
....."evidence"...?
Speaking of which, whose the director for Man of Steel? Still Singer? Because that guy has never made any movie that I consider good yet.
I mean its a good logical argument in Superman's favor...it was reasonable and made sense to me. Coherent.
Shouta
Member
It's a pretty good video but it leaves some things to be desired, specifically in the scenario but a few points here and there in the numbers.
its hard to do these debates cuz their both fictional, there really is no limit to their powers.
Superman is as strong as the plot needs him to be and Goku just got stronger and stronger constantly to the point of insanity.
it also depends on what versions of the characters you are talking about, kid Goku, SS1, SS2, SS3, SS4, fusion forms, and of course theres hundreds of versions of Superman.
its always like, when someone is the strongest, they just introduce some bullshit item or something that makes them stronger, or some new guy comes thats even stronger. like someone collects all the magic rings or learns all the secret moves, theres always someone or something to one up it, it just never ends. even with cosmic/god characters, there always some guy whos stronger with even more insane universe breaking bullshit powers.
if its just a pure 1 to 1 fight i guess they would fight till the end of time and it would be a draw, but if they both had access to their universes items, locations and characters then i have no idea. goku could just get the dragon balls and wish superman dead.
Superman is as strong as the plot needs him to be and Goku just got stronger and stronger constantly to the point of insanity.
it also depends on what versions of the characters you are talking about, kid Goku, SS1, SS2, SS3, SS4, fusion forms, and of course theres hundreds of versions of Superman.
its always like, when someone is the strongest, they just introduce some bullshit item or something that makes them stronger, or some new guy comes thats even stronger. like someone collects all the magic rings or learns all the secret moves, theres always someone or something to one up it, it just never ends. even with cosmic/god characters, there always some guy whos stronger with even more insane universe breaking bullshit powers.
if its just a pure 1 to 1 fight i guess they would fight till the end of time and it would be a draw, but if they both had access to their universes items, locations and characters then i have no idea. goku could just get the dragon balls and wish superman dead.
Except Goku isn't an idiot like you're making him out to be. He might never have had a formal education but he's not a dumbass either.
Also it's important to note that the dub made him seem stupider then the original version so keep that in mind.
Also he's perfectly willing to kill as well. He single handily wiped out the Red rippon army after all. Goku is a warrior in ever sense of the word and I have no doubt he'd be able to wield Thor's hammer.
And lol at some of the feets people are giving the Comic book characters. They almost never operate at those levels. I mean Flash is having trouble with a freaking talking Ape right now and Thor regularly gets his ass kicked by people far far below Goku's level all the time.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
You would rather that he did nothing, or that he would bask in his fame?
Because the best example of being a saiyan still isn't that good. He saves the planet because its a fight. He says all that I love the planet nonsense, but its the truth. His people were a race of nomadic pirates who pillaged and destroyed everything they came across. Hell, he doesn't even raise his own kids for the most part. How would being a fight addicted nice guy make you worthy of mjolnir?
hydragonwarrior
Member
Actually forget what I wrote - Screwattack was pretty accurate with their video lol...
the video did though. Goku trained with martial arts experts and gods, while Superman trained some kryptonian mma.
Wolf Akela
Member
Does SSJ4 Gogeta even hold a candle to Pre-Crisis Supes?
Shouta
Member
Nah, it used some really bad parameters in the analysis that kind of skews the entire premise. Their numbers in particular for Goku were really uh, silly both in choice and somewhat in concept. Worse off though is the progression in the scenario, really.
And being the best example of humanity is better exactly how?
evil solrac v3.0
Member
what appears and what it is are not the same. come on, get with it!
well Buu turned vegito into candy and he was able to overcome it. i'm sure Superman could do the same if he got absorbed.
Manga fans lol.
nobody likes GT. it's inconsistent as hell. and as I recall those attacks hurt him.
I see some yellow in there. looks more orange to me.
Superman is Superman. there isn't anything complicated about it. how is having different versions throughout the decades broken? he's the same. go to a Superman wiki if you can't keep up.
brilliant logic.
well since Superman was created in the comics most of his feats of strength are going to be there. so it's not fair to base it on one media over another.
well, I can't personally remember the last time someone wrote Superman to be "as strong as the plot needs him to be" we have a lot of cataloged stories that show their limits. and even Dragon Ball has it's limits. you can't for example wish someone dead. good or bad or someone that's very powerful (like Superman) so that wouldn't work.
This post perfectly describes what is going on in this thread.
Utter nonsense.
We need Godman to become popular so we don't need these debates ever again.
CountBlack
Member
I'm happy Goku didn't go out like a nobody.
Wanted Goku to win, but Superman is impenetrable.
Wanted Goku to win, but Superman is impenetrable.
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