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[Raptomex]

I have to disagree with you on Doom being a better game than Quake, though I do agree Doom's setting is, IMO, better than Quake's. I also think Quake 2 > Quake 1 > Doom. I also think all these games feel timeless, whereas Goldeneye is terribly dated (which is why it is baffling that people are so infatuated with the game).

But how come they're different types? Does Goldeneye do anything that makes it transcend the FPS genre, or be more similar to a different genre?

In many ways Quake is a rehash of Doom, albeit with a very unique atmosphere. Doomguy trying to thwart a demonic invasion on Mars after teleportation experiments or something go wrong. Ranger trying to stop Quake from invading the human dimension because of teleportation experiments or something gone wrong. Shotgun, double barreled shotgun, chaingun/super nailgun, other similar weapons that felt familiar, circle strafing, fast-paced action. There are things that make Quake very unique, even to this day like its dark fantasy theme for example. The 3D rendering was a breakthrough, it had a very unique aesthetic, but the gameplay had been done before. I'm not saying Quake is bad but it borrows a lot from Doom. Even Quake II instills a feeling of deja vu. I agree that they're timeless, though. But I also think sprite work ages better than 3D, especially early 3D games like Quake.

Doom and Quake are fast-paced, I guess "arena" style shooters, or whatever we call them now. GoldenEye is definitely a bit more story driven, slower-paced, and for its time, I think it looked pretty excellent. The gunplay is satisfying, the animations were awesome, and it broke ground for multiplayer on consoles.

 

[Poppy]

i recently was playing this on my upscaler and while super mario 64 looks great still, man does goldeneye look like some hot garbage

luckily theres emulators and mods and stuff for that

but anyway goldeneye was my childhood for a year definitely, prettymuch the only multiplayer game we would touch. and i loved playing certain levels like bunker and train over and over

 

[Livingskeletons]

Feels like it too, if not older.

This. It feels like more than 20 years to me.

 

[Rock And Roll]

The infatuation for this game completely baffles me. In 1997, we had Quake and by the end of 1997 we had Quake 2. Goldeneye is nowhere near as good as these two games, as far as FPS games go. Heck, I play Q1, Q2 and even Doom on the regular nowadays. Still, this isn't a knock against those who do like Goldeneye in spite of its many shortcomings (again, considering it's the clunkiest FPS I ever played).

Or you could like them all. There's always that option. I was playing them all back in 97. I like GoldenEye for the split screen multiplayer and the mission based objectives that scaled depending on difficulty.

I do think we're going to see GoldenEye on XB and Switch. Cross platform play is no longer a dirty concept for Nintendo. Anyway, happy 20th to one of the best FPS ever.

 

[daTRUballin]

All this talk of different control schemes and which control schemes are better and whatnot, but I've always just used the default scheme and was fine with it and still am. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[MrCunningham]

I find the infatuation for Quake baffling. I like it but Doom > Quake. Also, Arcane Dimensions > vanilla Quake. And why do we keep comparing Quake to GoldenEye? They're different types of FPS.

If you're comparing the single player campaigns of Doom and Quake , it comes down to personal tastes.

But from a multiplayer deathmatch POV, Quake is on a whole other level. Especially with a fully polygon 3D engine that allowed for vertical map designs with overlapping geometry and structures, rocket jumping and precision mouse aiming. The game supported more players per match, brought features like Quake Spy which made finding online matches easier. And introduced Quake World. which opened up Quake a lot for modding and total conversions like the original Team Fortress. It was quite a big evolution over Doom. But as far as single player and co-op goes, I still prefer Doom.

It's funny because Goldeneye was the game that broke this standard for console shooters.

It broke the "Doom Clone" meme and started the "Goldeneye Clone" one in fact.

Goldeneye was still a influential game in the world of FPS's, it actually did have some influences on later FPS's like Half-Life 1, SiN and the original Thief. But at the same time, I don't remember "Goldeneye clone" ever being a thing.

Doom Clone was also a pretty dated term in 1997, at that point some PC FPS's were copying the Quake formula.. up until Half-Life 1 was released. But Goldeneye did still added some of it's own intervention to the genre, with its objective structured level designs and light elements of stealth.

 

[stanislavskov]

In many ways Quake is a rehash of Doom, albeit with a very unique atmosphere. Doomguy trying to thwart a demonic invasion on Mars after teleportation experiments or something go wrong. Ranger trying to stop Quake from invading the human dimension because of teleportation experiments or something gone wrong. Shotgun, double barreled shotgun, chaingun/super nailgun, other similar weapons that felt familiar, circle strafing, fast-paced action. There are things that make Quake very unique, even to this day like its dark fantasy theme for example. The 3D rendering was a breakthrough, it had a very unique aesthetic, but the gameplay had been done before. I'm not saying Quake is bad but it borrows a lot from Doom. Even Quake II instills a feeling of deja vu. I agree that they're timeless, though. But I also think sprite work ages better than 3D, especially early 3D games like Quake.

Doom and Quake are fast-paced, I guess "arena" style shooters, or whatever we call them now. GoldenEye is definitely a bit more story driven, slower-paced, and for its time, I think it looked pretty excellent. The gunplay is satisfying, the animations were awesome, and it broke ground for multiplayer on consoles.

Well, as far as terribly aged 3D content goes, I'm pretty sure Goldeneye takes the cake over Q1 and Q2. If you ask me, because the visuals in the Quake titles aren't trying to be very realistic, they actually manage to hold up a lot better than other games from that era. I understand that there is a shared legacy between Doom and Quake, but the gameplay in Quake is on a whole different level from Doom, and I'm focusing on the single player experience here. Both exploration and combat play completely different between Doom and Quake, be it due to the expanded movement set, weapon balancing and the variety of enemies (another area where I think Goldeneye lacks severely).

I also never thought of Doom or Quake (1 and 2) as arena shooters. Sure, they planted the seeds for this sort of game, but for me their main draw was their campaign (solo or cooperative). I agree their plot is much more sparse than Goldeneye's, but IMO their campaign is much more entertaining due to the better gameplay.

Or you could like them all. There's always that option. I was playing them all back in 97. I like GoldenEye for the split screen multiplayer and the mission based objectives that scaled depending on difficulty.

I do think we're going to see GoldenEye on XB and Switch. Cross platform play is no longer a dirty concept for Nintendo. Anyway, happy 20th to one of the best FPS ever.

I could, but I don't. Again, probably because I had different expecations from FPS games since I was used to different experiences. I'm not trying to make people not like Goldeneye, I'm just impressed that, to this day, most of Goldeneye's shortcomings are overlooked by quite a lot of people, even if other FPS games from the same era didn't have these issues.

 

[Raptomex]

Well, as far as terribly aged 3D content goes, I'm pretty sure Goldeneye takes the cake over Q1 and Q2. If you ask me, because the visuals in the Quake titles aren't trying to be very realistic, they actually manage to hold up a lot better than other games from that era. I understand that there is a shared legacy between Doom and Quake, but the gameplay in Quake is on a whole different level from Doom, and I'm focusing on the single player experience here. Both exploration and combat play completely different between Doom and Quake, be it due to the expanded movement set, weapon balancing and the variety of enemies (another area where I think Goldeneye lacks severely).

I also never thought of Doom or Quake (1 and 2) as arena shooters. Sure, they planted the seeds for this sort of game, but for me their main draw was their campaign (solo or cooperative). I agree their plot is much more sparse than Goldeneye's, but IMO their campaign is much more entertaining due to the better gameplay.

I agree that GoldenEye's visuals didn't age as well either. And I'm with you when you say Quake and Doom have better gameplay but GoldenEye was a breakthrough and even its realistic elements were pretty fantastic back in the day. It's not a bad game, and this is coming from someone who didn't even beat it until recently and only played the multiplayer once in his life. So I can see why people can really enjoy it because it still is fun to play, control issues aside.

But I still say Doom II > every other FPS.

 

[Necron]

Time to replay some GoldenEye007 this weekend.

Love the ost.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I wandered away from gaming when I was in high school (most of the early 90s) but the N64 was what sucked me back into gaming, and Goldeneye is what looped ALL of my friends into buying N64s.

I can't even begin to calculate how many late nights we wasted wasting each other in Goldeneye (and later, Perfect Dark and Excitebike 64). Mario 64 and Goldeneye are two of the only few battered cartridges I've managed to hang on from those days, but I still adore them enough that I put 'em on display.

I love that you labeled the shit KILL KILL KILL. Me & my friends used to say "Who's up for some 007" which one of us once said in some fake old-timey gangster accent that turned it into "Youse wanna get got in some Double-O-Shmebbin" which eventually just became "Shmebbin."

As in someone would just say "Shmebbin" and we'd get up off the porch and head inside.

Eventually "Shmeb" became this weird sort of noun verb that applied to people getting fucked up both in and outside of the game.

(also I don't know anybody who didn't write the name of the game on top of the cart because otherwise you just had to shuffle through the stack like an asshole instead of just grabbing the one you wanted)

 

[Tye The Czar]

Nobody wants to talk about the Wii remake?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenEye_007_(2010_video_game)

I am playing this game right now for the first time and it is fantastic.

A review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQf22vbebVI

Couldn't play through much of it. While controls were improved, the game took out a lot of the original's essence, never really feeling like Goldeneye. It felt too much like a CoD with the Bond license slapped on it.

 

[Cpt Conifer]

I tend to use this game as one of my reference points for trying to explain why I would have been cool with dual analog sticks never taking hold. I actually enjoyed the dynamic of swapping between standing "free aim" (generally for fine interactions with the environment) with the R-button and standard run & gun. I don't automatically think the dudes who hooked up two controllers for early dual stick controls were all amazing, enlightened, and progressive.

If you can imagine all future controllers basically modeled after a one-stick Dreamcast design, with the addition of extra shouder and face buttons, or ergonomic changes/options for those of you who hated the design, I seriously don't believe gaming would have objectively come off worse. All FPSes would absolutely have been slower paced affairs, but that's only objectively bad to people who believe speed is a crucial factor in these games. In contrast, I actually find the modern demand to juggle a stick and face-buttons to be kind of obtuse and immersion-breaking. They try to minimize it as much as they can, to be fair, with the most important tasks linked to the four shoulder buttons, but you get the idea.

 

[G-Bus]

Growing up in a house with 3 older brothers we had some long nights playing GoldenEye.

Proximity mines on complex.

Unlocking all those crazy cheat codes.

Good times.

Probably be awkward as all hell to go back and play this on a N64.

 

[D.Lo]

I tend to use this game as one of my reference points for trying to explain why I would have been cool with dual analog sticks never taking hold. I actually enjoyed the dynamic of swapping between standing "free aim" (generally for fine interactions with the environment) with the R-button and standard run & gun. I don't automatically think the dudes who hooked up two controllers for early dual stick controls were all amazing, enlightened, and progressive.

If you can imagine all future controllers basically modeled after a one-stick Dreamcast design, with the addition of extra shouder and face buttons, or ergonomic changes/options for those of you who hated the design, I seriously don't believe gaming would have objectively come off worse. All FPSes would absolutely have been slower paced affairs, but that's only objectively bad to people who believe speed is a crucial factor in these games. In contrast, I actually find the modern demand to juggle a stick and face-buttons to be kind of obtuse and immersion-breaking. They try to minimize it as much as they can, to be fair, with the most important tasks linked to the four shoulder buttons, but you get the idea.

Sure for shooters, Resident Evil 4 didn't need a second stick for example.

But even the N64 controller had a second dictional input - the c-buttons were the original 'right stick', used in Mario 64 from day 1. Nintendo knew you'd need 'dual directional input' for 3D gaming, and right stick usage eventually evolved out of the C-buttons.

 

[ATF487]

Sometimes I think "Wow I can't believe it's been that long!" with these types of threads, but 20 years feels right. Fond memories of playing this but I have no reason to go back and make new ones.

 

[Porcile]

Dark License To Kill - Silo by Bryan Bosshardt :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-bUR5l8RAg

Dark License To Kill is a custom difficulty where players use 007 difficulty to max out all the enemy stats. It took sixteen years for someone to finally complete Silo on this mode.

Streets - Agent 1:12 by Rock Lockwood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmqJl4MoNI

Legendary video. What a rush.

AGDQ 2014 Goldeneye "co-op" speedrun using two seperate controllers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWDRtyq3Yhg

Using the dual controller control scheme, one player controls Bond's movements while the other controls the gun actions.

Seriously, hardcore Goldeneye playing is a rabbit hole worth going down. I'll probably start an info thread one of these days.

 

[Stronghammer22]

I created an achievement set for this game a few months ago: http://retroachievements.org/Game/10073

I know there are many that do no care for achievements, but for those that do, it's a nice little bonus while playing (more likely replaying). I have wonderful memories of playing this game with my family, even now, I still think it is a blast. Obviously there are some rough aspects, but they are easy to overlook. I learnt about some interesting glitches/hidden features while creating the set. For instance, I had no idea that you could kill Ouromov in Silo...and that he holds a key which can be used to open the Silo roof (it has no real purpose though, just a leftover from possibly another objective they had planned for the level). You can kill enemies with explosives in cutscenes. In Cradle, Alec will blow himself up with a grenade if you stand in a certain position outside the drone gun room. You can complete Aztec without killing Jaws (covered earlier in the thread). The list goes on.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

So in celebration of this I dug out the old N64, stuck in GoldenEye, opened a new file for Agent 007 and decided to begin anew on Special Agent difficulty.

I had a lot of fun. Once you get over the initial framerate hurdles (and I guess controls if you haven't held an N64 controller for ages) it's still as fun as it ever was. It's been so long that playing some of these levels felt like a new game! I'd forgotten how good the Frigate level was, for example, and the two Surface levels weren't as frustrating as I remembered them to be. I'm now on Bunker 2, which really is one well designed level where not a single inch of space is wasted.

The presentation also holds up much better than I anticipated - the textures are well designed around the N64's limited texture cache, most of the models have enough polygons where required (like 007's hand and weapons), and there's just an excellent sense of place throughout the levels. I mean, obviously characters look hilarious low-quality but because the devs were doing their best with the hardware available it never comes across as sloppy-looking - just 'old'.

They really don't make FPSes like they used to. Due to hardware limitations the developers were perfectly happy letting the player's imagination fill in the gaps (like when Bond gets captured at the end of Surface 2). Even the briefings are a nice way of filling in the gaps, you can tell the writer had fun writing what Moneypenny and Q branch had to say.

 

[stn]

Its still an amazing game, the controls just haven't aged well at all. Its so hard to use precision aiming. Same issue with Perfect Dark.

 

[Yukinari]

Getting robbed of an HD version because of Microsoft and Nintendo butting heads is sad to this day.

But then again it plays well with PC controls in widescreen so just do that.

 

[LooseLips]

It was the ultimate game for us at University (I'm old)

Also, that 4 player local shooty-fun must have enthused SO many 'not regularly' gamers into the fold. We were all practically evangelical about it to visitors. Nintendo really should owe me some royalties from the sales I got them!

 

[Pandy]

Its still an amazing game, the controls just haven't aged well at all. Its so hard to use precision aiming. Same issue with Perfect Dark.

Rubbish. I last played the game just a few months ago, flying through levels with both aim-assist and the cursor turned off.

For accuracy it is 100% the the best way to aim at a point on the screen with an analogue stick.

EDIT: Maybe it's just got a steeper learning curve than modern control schemes.

 

[daTRUballin]

Its still an amazing game, the controls just haven't aged well at all. Its so hard to use precision aiming. Same issue with Perfect Dark.

Once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. Honestly.

EDIT:

Had a discussion with some friends earlier about the best stages, I concluded that the archives is pretty rad from memory.
One of them mentioned streets on the basis of the tank but eff those rocket grunts.

We all secretly know Facility is the best. Classic map and iconic level.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Had a discussion with some friends earlier about the best stages, I concluded that the archives is pretty rad from memory.
One of them mentioned streets on the basis of the tank but eff those rocket grunts.

 

[Ogodei]

Iwata is to blame.

What was the offer? That Microsoft would let Nintendo do a VC release of the original, unaltered game for Nintendo letting Microsoft release the remake?

 

[Space_nut]

How is the goldeneye 007 game that came out on Wii and 360?

 

[prag16]

How is the goldeneye 007 game that came out on Wii and 360?

It's nothing like the original, but solid in its own right.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Its still an amazing game, the controls just haven't aged well at all. Its so hard to use precision aiming. Same issue with Perfect Dark.

The annoying thing about Perfect Dark's precision aiming is it got worse with the 1080p60 XBLA remaster. The sensitivity is too high, or the deadzones are too large, that manual aim isn't as effective as it was before.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

The annoying thing about Perfect Dark's precision aiming is it got worse with the 1080p60 XBLA remaster. The sensitivity is too high, or the deadzones are too large, that manual aim isn't as effective as it was before.

Did you play after they added some more settings for the sensitivity of manual aim?

 

[TheVampire]

Did you know that the multiplayer respawn points were numbered.
So if you memorised them you would know where for example player 2 would respawn next after you killed him.
Good for trolling with remote mines.

Also what was up with those hidden in game multiplayer push button codes?

 

[mokeyjoe]

The annoying thing about Perfect Dark's precision aiming is it got worse with the 1080p60 XBLA remaster. The sensitivity is too high, or the deadzones are too large, that manual aim isn't as effective as it was before.

I didn't find it a problem on the remaster at all. Loved that remaster, it was my favourite game of the year.

 

[EraErr0r1]

Speedrunning for this game is really interesting. Highly recommend watching Ryan "Goose" White's Goldeneye Speedlore series on Youtube.

Dearly noted. Thanks for that one!

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

i for the life of me cannot get goldeneye source to run. anyone recently install the newest version?

 

[Timu]

It's nothing like the original, but solid in its own right.

Yeah, I need to play that someday.

 

[uocooper]

This came out when I was in college and living with roommates and man did we play the hell out of this game. The nice thing was that we were all pretty close skill wise so it wasn't lopsided like so many multiplayer games tend to be. Good times.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Were you aware that you could use the D-pad instead though? And if yes, did you try it? From what i gather from many discussions over the years, most people never even tried holding the controller that way. The C-Buttons and Analog combo is an inverted version of KB-Mouse, as a right handed i would never be able to get used to it...

I used 1.2 Solitaire from Day 1 after getting accustomed to that control scheme with Turok 1. It always made sense to me that the C-buttons were your "WASD keys" and the analogue stick was the "mouse". Since the N64 was my first introduction to using an analogue stick, I never thought to try using anything but my left thumb for the analogue stick and it was the default scheme that almost all games used. I can't remember anything I played with a different "grip".

This carried over to the Xbox and Gamecube era where I remember playing Nightfire using the shitty C-Stick for walking and left analogue stick for aiming. Resident Evil 4 only allowed left stick aiming so it further cemented that control scheme of aiming with the left stick for me.

It wasn't until Xbox 360 that I started playing a lot of FPS and realised it was a major pain to have to stop moving in order to access the face buttons for reloading, jumping etc. So at some point I retrained to use the standard control scheme that is used by default today with aiming on right-stick and movement on left stick.

I always used "inverted" aiming as I'm sure that was "default" in the N64 era. Can not be bothered retraining myself for "normal" aiming now. I miss the 360 option of setting aiming as "inverted" for all games.

If I ever go back and play Goldeneye I will definately try using 1.2 Solitare but with the D-Pad instead of C-buttons for movement.

I'm pretty sure I attempted to use one of the 2.x Dual Analogue controls at some point but the controllers felt too heavy and access to face buttons was difficult.

I meant Halo solidified the scheme of right stick aiming as a standard. Not that it created aiming with a stick as a standard. As in, everyone copied and used that style almost exclusively. Hence why it screwed me up to have become accustomed to the opposite.

*Edited for wording*

Yeah this was exactly my problem after years of left stick aiming which originated from the N64 era.

 

[Kevtones]

Control on Hard was my stopper for awhile. Shit was a bitch.


Then came Aztec on hard. Good lord.


100% the game though 🙏

 

[SMD]

I wandered away from gaming when I was in high school (most of the early 90s) but the N64 was what sucked me back into gaming, and Goldeneye is what looped ALL of my friends into buying N64s.

I can't even begin to calculate how many late nights we wasted wasting each other in Goldeneye (and later, Perfect Dark and Excitebike 64). Mario 64 and Goldeneye are two of the only few battered cartridges I've managed to hang on from those days, but I still adore them enough that I put 'em on display.

You're an absolute monster.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Pistols.
License to Kill.
Facility, Stack or Complex.

The only way to play Goldeneye's multiplayer.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Did you play after they added some more settings for the sensitivity of manual aim?

Hadn't realised there were settings, will check them out. I probably did play after the update since I got my 360 late (2010). Online posts complaining about the manual aim must have been before the update