If top tier GPUs are 20-25 TF that means a console GPU will be less than half of that. It's been like this since the XB1/PS4. So for a 15 TF console high end GPUs would have to be 30 TF+. I don't even think we'll have that by 2020.
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[golem.de with Shawn Layden] Sony bets on real PS 5 instead of console revolution
- Thread starter c0de
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If top tier GPUs are 20-25 TF that means a console GPU will be less than half of that. It's been like this since the XB1/PS4. So for a 15 TF console high end GPUs would have to be 30 TF+. I don't even think we'll have that by 2020.
I don't think there is value in the baseline going from PS4 to ps4pro. They both have pretty much the same CPU performance which will hold any future Ps5 back too much. That's why I think Ps5 will be a clear break - Ps5 games won't work on PS4 or pro
Nintendo has just done a complete reset with the Switch. Sony has clearly indicated that they plan on a traditional new generation. So far that's two of the three big players that seem to be staying the course.
Just having backward compatibility isn't moving beyond generations. The Wii played GC games, the Wii U played Wii games, the PS3 played PS1 and, depending on the model. PS2 games. The defining characteristic of the phone-like iterative model is that new devices come out extremely frequently, and apps target enough recent iterations to form a sufficiently large customer base. Apps that only support the most recent version are relatively rare.
Will that happen in the console space? It's far too early to know for certain but there's no real reason to believe it will. Sony has indicated that there will never be a game that runs on the PS4 Pro that doesn't also support the PS4. There will probably never be enough Xbox One X customers to make it worth creating a game that won't run on the S at least until the next console arrives. That's when we'll know a lot more about how everything will play out.
Shin
Banned
nVidia is already outdoing themselves by going from 12TF Titan Xp to 15TF 1180, there's still Ti and Titan Xv.
I threw the 20-25TF in there to be reasonable as there are mention of a 30TF AMD card, it is possible, I man if nVidia jumps 3TF without a node shrink.
Plus AMD will supposedly jump from 64CU to 128NCU (Navi), that all is too far out IMO and we need more solid info to draw a conclusion.
With PS4 it was a 7850 mod, you had 7970 and 7990 or something like that, with PS4Pro they used the high end card RX480 but downclocked a lot.
So it's not really a Titan vs a 1050 thing IMO, more like a 1070 would be a fair comparison.
InsaneTiger
Member
We don't really know anything. Stop Shin.
About the joystick It will be an upgraded dualshock as always or a New design?
Personaly i dont like the touch buton Very few games use It, for me It should be discarded
The led It's cool but If It makes the controller expensive discard it and add a option to turn It off If this remains
Gyroscope i think i used in three games only, infamous,tearaway, batman, but It Was cool, idk If developers Will still use that
Cheap sounds system, discard It, It Was Cool when the PS4 was released, i Was confused as Hell at the First time playing infamous, but It's rather annoying now and superfluous
I dunno what they can add for interesting mechanics, but for the actual controller Thats what i think
Personaly i dont like the touch buton Very few games use It, for me It should be discarded
The led It's cool but If It makes the controller expensive discard it and add a option to turn It off If this remains
Gyroscope i think i used in three games only, infamous,tearaway, batman, but It Was cool, idk If developers Will still use that
Cheap sounds system, discard It, It Was Cool when the PS4 was released, i Was confused as Hell at the First time playing infamous, but It's rather annoying now and superfluous
I dunno what they can add for interesting mechanics, but for the actual controller Thats what i think
Shin
Banned
The question was never "Will there be a PS5?" or even "Will the PS5 just be a half-step?". Anyone thinking about that has wasted a lot of time on nothing.
It has and will always be, and with the next Xbox too: "Will it be backwards compatible with the previous library as well?"
It has and will always be, and with the next Xbox too: "Will it be backwards compatible with the previous library as well?"
Backward compatibility is highly likely to happen (thanks to x86) but not forward compatibility. That's essentially a new gen since PS4 can't play PS5 games.
Okami Haundo
Member
That'll be interesting to see! Personally I'd love a Dualshock 5 that abandons the damn light bar so my controller will last more than a few hours. I replace the batteries in my Xbox One controller once every two weeks or so vs. charging at least twice a week on my PS4.
I'll be interested in seeing Sony's approach and how people react to it honestly. I'm not expecting the eventual PS5 to be leaps and bounds above the PS4 Pro.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Those cost don't matter if it makes 20% more people to jump in early into next-gen because they aren't worried that they'll lose access to all their fun games.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
PS3 had backwards compatibility at launch and sold like crap. Later they ditched it and the console made a come back.
PS4 has never supported backwards compatibility and is on track to sell 100m unit before end of life.
Is there any reason to expect back compability from a PS5. I mean, I'd like it, but is there?
I've never understood why current-gen consoles spontaneously combust the minute you bring a next-gen console into your house... maybe it's something companies hard wire to drive sales of remasters.
PS4 has never supported backwards compatibility and is on track to sell 100m unit before end of life.
Is there any reason to expect back compability from a PS5. I mean, I'd like it, but is there?
I've never understood why current-gen consoles spontaneously combust the minute you bring a next-gen console into your house... maybe it's something companies hard wire to drive sales of remasters.
But if they remove the light, PSVR won't work. And it's not the reason for the shitty battery life, the touchpad is.
Shin
Banned
Cuz it will be called PlayStation 4K, see what I did there staying in the "4" family.
That's how it has always been though, hence why Sony believes in generations as it sets a clear line when to stop with the previous gen and move on.
Okami Haundo
Member
Is the touchpad really the primary reason the battery is so crap? I'd appreciate a source on that one. If that's the case I'd rather see the touchpad go away then. Ideally I'd just want the system to ship with a basic controller without either option. Just sell a PSVR compatible controller and/or keep the DS4 on the market and compatible.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
We consumers always views generations as this....."the new games only play on the new system". Now it's true that we've had some cross gen games, but a new generation means forward compatibility isn't going to happen (which is good) .
No one ever thought about the accessories side of things.
Weltall Zero
Member
It's kind of funny seeing all the people saying they won't buy it if it doesn't have PS4 BC, yet they all bought a PS4 that doesn't have PS3 BC. People are so bad at estimating their future selves' resolve.
InsaneTiger
Member
Maybe, I can't imagine it won't. Friday!
PS3 sold bad because It Was 600 dollars at that time, this IS 700 today?
PS2 had it and it Was the king of that gen, and PSP sold better because you could play ps1 games, Vita sold mainly because It Was a PSP OLED machine mostly
Shin
Banned
Don't know about the touchpad as I couldn't find anything on that, but there's this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723148
Time goes by fast when you're having fun, it's been almost 2 weeks since E3, before you know it will be PSX and E3 again.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
There's a HUGE difference. Games made to run on a console that's 15 TF and 32 GBs of RAM with 1 TB of bandwidth is completely different than a 1.8 TF console and 8 GBs of RAM and 230 GBs of bandwidth.
joe_zazen
Member
The games probably won't be BC as sony has given no indication they are concerned about BC. And having similar arch does not mean much in terms of software interoperability. Osx, Linux, Windows, and Unix are X 86/64.
Okami Haundo
Member
The first part is definitely your opinion, and I respectfully disagree. As for your last statement, that's just silly and false.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Well, I for one am glad that Layden at least indicates that PS5 will be a fresh start with new exclusive games which can exploit the console's power without having to hold back for PS4 SKUs.
That said, I wonder if we'll see the same hard break between both generations as before, or if certain games will be allowed to run on both gens (FC).
That said, I wonder if we'll see the same hard break between both generations as before, or if certain games will be allowed to run on both gens (FC).
Shin
Banned
Haha, those games would be like running on steroids.
Even if the first wave of games are totally crap, if there's BC people can spend time replaying their old games with higher fidelity, more FPS, etc etc to kill time.
It's understandable that PS4 doesn't have BC with PS3, PS4 > PS5 won't be anything like that exotic architecture of Krazy Ken.
As much as they tend to screw up here and there even Sony isn't stupid enough to kill off BC on PS5, digital is a thing and it makes them more money than retail.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Point is, that you don't need backwards compatibility to sell well. The PS3 didn't suffer when it abandoned and the PS4 has soared without it. If it can be shown that it doesn't have a significant impact on on the sales potential of a console, then there's no reason that a large corporate would invest in it.
EDIT: Moreover, MS's implementation doesn't appear to have had a significant impact on the on XB1 weaker performance. There's nothing we've seen in the past decade of gaming which suggests that this is a core feature that shifts hardware.
Edit [2]: Moreover, if Nintendo's Switch continues it's current trend towards reasonable success it will only be further proof, particularly when weighed against it's predecessor, which, again, had that backwards compatibility.
You can argue that other factors have lead to the success and downfall in each case and you'd be absolutely right, but that only serves to demonstrate the overall point, that BC isn't the make or breaker that some claim it to be.
wonderful103
Member
Statements like these are how Nintendo made the Wii U. Traditional generations are dead, even if 1 backwards player has to go kicking and screaming. Or, in this case, likely deceiving.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
This sucks. They should phase out base model. I hate the idea of playing games designed for a 2011 mobile APU in 2020 but at least we can have a somewhat powerful GPU to make up for things.
MisterR
Member
Sorry, Generations are not done. No matter what MS PR tells you. There will come a point that games will be made that won't play on an Xbone. Backwards compatibility will likely be a part of future generations, just like it has in the past. Perpetual forward compatibility, not so much.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is what a console generation change does in clear terms. Burdmayn said it best. It's always been like this.
jonscrambler
Member
I don't know why people think PS5 will have BC, and it will be just free if you own the game on PS4?
Shin
Banned
OP might want to update the first post with some quotes from this article while crediting Golem.de
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s-playstation-5-will-exist-despite-iteration/
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s-playstation-5-will-exist-despite-iteration/
MisterR
Member
The PS2 and early PS3 were backwards compatible. Were they not new generations? Generations change when new games are made that won't play on old hardware. That isn't going to change. MS will hit the point that an old Xbone won't play the games their new hardware does. At that point it's a new gen, no Matt how they spin it. I feel like these midpoint consoles have confused people as to what generations even are.
wonderful103
Member
The traditional generation died the second the PS4 Pro was a gleam in the eye of a hardware designer and Iwata started showing charts about how future videogame ecosystems would work long before the NX found the public eye.
Actions speak much louder than PR's words, and you might want to look into how the APIs and performance profiles work in the pro environment.
Hard resets are done.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Well, that's also how Switch got made...
I mean there's very little chance that PS5, whatever it is, will have a bulk of games that are also binary compatible and playable on PS4. I don't know what's so deceiving about that. There comes a point when a hardware difference is too large for it to make sense thinking about how it's going to run on a very old hardware, and it may simply not be possible. This doesn't mean however that PS5 won't play PS4 games.
LordBaztion
Member
It's going to be interesting what prospect is better received, the sony's reiteration on generational change or MS' evolutionary platform. Finally we may have both main consoles with different proposals.
I don't think backwards compatibility to be a priority for PS5, Sony has already made clear that it is not that important, people buy new consoles for new games.
Also, I'm eager to see how 1X stacks up to PS5. If it is more than a couple of year in the future, I expect 1X to not so behind.
I don't think backwards compatibility to be a priority for PS5, Sony has already made clear that it is not that important, people buy new consoles for new games.
Also, I'm eager to see how 1X stacks up to PS5. If it is more than a couple of year in the future, I expect 1X to not so behind.
Calling it PS5 would allow them to stop supporting the PS4. I am guessing they will be back compatible but not forward compatible.
tearsintherain
Member
Because virtually nobody I know would buy a PS5 if it didn't play PS4 games. The PS4 draught at launch was terrible and I really didn't think of the system as worth it until Destiny a year later.
I passed on buying a launch switch for the same reason, and if the PS5 is also not BC I wouldn't buy it at launch either. I'll just stick to xbox one X for a while, since new games will DEFINITELY run on that and probably 90% close to whatever a non compatible PS5 is. Its not like there is some super new tech that will give 4x the performance at 1/2 the price.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Gens did not die with Pro .
Also having BC does not mean Gens die .
PS3 had BC with both PS1 and PS2 and it was still a new gen .
Game consoles hardware is not going to come out so fast that they new FC like mobile or PC.
I agree that it's a bit too far but you can make some guesses based on earlier patterns.
The 480 is a mid range chip. That why they used the 8 and not the 9. If it was actually a high end card AMD would've had a decrease in performance as the 390x and all the Fury cards are better. AMD just doesn't have a 14nm high end card right now. I think they meant to have VEGA & Polaris release around the same time but VEGA got delayed. That why VEGA is not replacing Polaris and why the 580 exists.
Shin
Banned
The very thing Sony has been insisting to still exists, which is what this article basically reaffirms.
That is what generations are...mid-gen refreshes are an option, they aren't a new gen and they probably won't extend it either it is A option, nothing more, nothing less.
Okami Haundo
Member
I'm definitely not willing to argue about what console generations can do. I think there are very clear benefits and disadvantages there. I was primarily stating that people do care about accessories being compatible.
I have a bridge I'd like to sell to anyone who thought perpetual forward compatibility would ever be a thing on consoles. As for whether or not traditional generations will be done, that's an argument that will continue until the end of time. People will bend the definition of a console "generation" to fit whatever point they want to make.
Alter_Fridge
Member
What's gonna stop a PS5 Pro and Xbox Two X from happening?
Sword Of Doom
Member
If the PS5 doesn't run PS4 games they're going to have a real shitstorm on their hands. Let's hope they're smart enough to understand this
pixelation
Member
And i love them for it, Sony knows what's up!