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Golliwog dolls
- Thread starter Yrael
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POWERSPHERE
Member
Yeah, they sell these at the gift shop down the road from me. It's bonkers.
Where do you live?
Jimnymebob
Member
They used to have these in shops and stalls in Southport when I was younger. Or if not Southport some other holiday town. I've not seen one in a good few years though, so god knows if they still sell them.
But these holiday places are the same places where you can buy rock wobbly willies and the like, so I'm sure they're meant to be offensive.
But these holiday places are the same places where you can buy rock wobbly willies and the like, so I'm sure they're meant to be offensive.
Apparently Enid Blyton wasn't a fan of the dolls so she often depicted them as baddies in her books. They've changed the illustrations for reprints so for example that scene has the baddies as goblins.
well i mean i am 23 now. in aberdeen, most scottish people here hate the english on principle.
if i didnt take it in jest it would probably make it alot worse tbh
thats not necessarily true. while i think enid blyton has a reputation for being racist (?), more often than not at least in the noddy books i had - the gollywogs were sharing, helpful and kind!
zorlaczerohero
Banned
My wife had the same experience. Moved to Scotland when she was 13. Even the Teachers treated her like shit. She has no friends from her time at high school which I think is sort of sad. It got easier as she went into 6th form or whatever it is up there. And then she went to Uni to do a Medical Degree at St. Andrews, despite her Teachers telling her she was too thick, she got an unconditional offer (no she wasn't rich, purely educational merit).
My nephew moved to Ireland when he was about 8, he was never invited to one single birthday party during primary school because he was the 'English kid'. This wasn't the kids, this was the fucking parents. The teachers took great delight in bringing up past atrocities the English caused to the Irish then directing the other pupils at my nephew. The fact my Family have lived in that area for hundreds of years before my Dad moved to the UK looking for work and made the English line didn't seem to matter.
Porcile
Member
See these all the time in gift shops in the UK (mostly middle class towns), but as you say they're called Golly Dolls, the Wog has been dispensed with. It's kind of weird but I guess some strange people want to reclaim this design (somehow without all the racial connotations of it) because of how iconic they are. I also suppose in some peoples justification, under a set of very different circumstances these wouldn't be deemed racist because of how unreal and silly they obviously are, but that could be said about anything offensive really.
On the other hand, I was down in Cornwall a few months back and they were selling 18th century reproductions of posters which advertised 'Slaves For Sale'. Should've taken a picture.
On the other hand, I was down in Cornwall a few months back and they were selling 18th century reproductions of posters which advertised 'Slaves For Sale'. Should've taken a picture.
Charlie0108
Member
My Dad still has one of these lying around from his childhood. I'm not really sure why we keep it, I just don't think he wants to throw one of his childhood memories away.
I'm sorry that happened to your wife, sounds really rough ): Happy that she got her Uni course and whatnot! The last 2 years of my high school were a lot easier as people seemed to mostly mature, and the bullying calmed down a bit.
Thats horrible about your nephew too, so much undeserved hate based on generations before us.
Stuff like that still happens, I always overhear people slating the english for being english.
IdreamofHIME
Member
The original Golliwog was invented as a dark skinned dwarf thing in a kids book. Toys and shit were made making it super popular...and then racists got hold of it and ruined it for everyone. So it all depends on how you look at it, as the fantasy creature it was invented as or the non-pc person it morphed into.
Same goes for zwarte piet, to outsiders it's clearly racist...but to the Dutch they just don't see it.
Same goes for zwarte piet, to outsiders it's clearly racist...but to the Dutch they just don't see it.
Would the "fighting irish" character fall under similar thing?
Just asking as a question, not comparing the two.
As an ethnic group that has suffered prosecution in America and at home for centuries and with negative stereotypes attributed to the Irish then is the "fighting irish" character not insensitive and part of a continuation of a negative stereotype?
There was especially a long history of cartoons and drawings in English media 100's of years bad portraying the Irish as stupid, sub human, violent and drunk.
The word hooligan has racist background, it was used to refer to a violent, drunken Irish man.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16967_8-racist-words-you-use-every-day.html
Excuse the long post, and sorry if it feels I have hijacked the thread.
Interested to hear thoughts?
Just asking as a question, not comparing the two.
As an ethnic group that has suffered prosecution in America and at home for centuries and with negative stereotypes attributed to the Irish then is the "fighting irish" character not insensitive and part of a continuation of a negative stereotype?
There was especially a long history of cartoons and drawings in English media 100's of years bad portraying the Irish as stupid, sub human, violent and drunk.
The word hooligan has racist background, it was used to refer to a violent, drunken Irish man.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16967_8-racist-words-you-use-every-day.html
Excuse the long post, and sorry if it feels I have hijacked the thread.
Interested to hear thoughts?
AFollowerNotALeader
Member
It's weird.
There was a show on the radio here in the UK a few months back about this and it told me lots of things I hadn't really been aware of.
1) That the original character was basically a hero created by Upton, but she didn't make any efforts to trademark the character or get it otherwise protected so other people were free to re-use it.
2) That Enid Blyton is a massive fucking racist, and released series after series of books where Golliwogs were... not necessary evil, but sly, lazy and mischievous.
3) And, well, racists happened.
I think it's a shame, that the thing has been ruined by racist cuntwaffles, partly for the reasons that Alan Moore gives in the interview quoted above, but also because the dolls are... kinda cute?
I don't think the reaction against them is "PC gone mad" much in the same way as people will make judgements about you if you tattoo a swastika on your forehead and then run around going "IT'S TOTALLY HINDU GUYS" - the thing as a symbol doesn't mean what it used to mean any more and people kinda need to grow up and accept that.
There was a show on the radio here in the UK a few months back about this and it told me lots of things I hadn't really been aware of.
1) That the original character was basically a hero created by Upton, but she didn't make any efforts to trademark the character or get it otherwise protected so other people were free to re-use it.
2) That Enid Blyton is a massive fucking racist, and released series after series of books where Golliwogs were... not necessary evil, but sly, lazy and mischievous.
3) And, well, racists happened.
I think it's a shame, that the thing has been ruined by racist cuntwaffles, partly for the reasons that Alan Moore gives in the interview quoted above, but also because the dolls are... kinda cute?
I don't think the reaction against them is "PC gone mad" much in the same way as people will make judgements about you if you tattoo a swastika on your forehead and then run around going "IT'S TOTALLY HINDU GUYS" - the thing as a symbol doesn't mean what it used to mean any more and people kinda need to grow up and accept that.
SmugAgentCoulson
Banned
Yeh totally agree with you. My mother still has the below set and a few others I think.
I recall other relatives had some as well. Just saw them as a doll/toy that's all. They also had Dukes of Hazard General Lee toys as well.
I guess we should be thrown in jail........
SuperAngelo64
Banned
I have a black friend and her mom used to collect blackface and mammy memorabilia.
She would say that it was important to keep them around to remember their 'history'. She never seemed to have any ill will towards it and was happy to show off her collection and seemed really chipper when someone asked to see it.
I'm still not sure what to make of it, but I'm glad she found a way to spin something so derogatory into something positive.
She would say that it was important to keep them around to remember their 'history'. She never seemed to have any ill will towards it and was happy to show off her collection and seemed really chipper when someone asked to see it.
I'm still not sure what to make of it, but I'm glad she found a way to spin something so derogatory into something positive.
Someone in Sandown on the aptly named Isle of of Wight has a huge one on display in their front window.
I believe that over the past 30-40 years there have been several large scale immigration waves from Lebanon and Vietnam. At the time these surges in immigration created a lot of tension and that's is where the casual racism towards those groups comes from. The tensions still simmer in the background and occasionally flare up...the Cronulla Race Riots for example.
Also; relatively speaking it's not that long since the "White Australia" policy was ended. There are still a lot of people around from that era who's thoughts about it would have influenced their children and grandchildren.
JumpJeff84
Member
oh man i had this noddy book
the 4 gollywogs stole noddys car and clothes, leaving him naked.
Yeah I had that book. Scared the shit outta me at the time.
Thankfully I didn't grow up to be scared of black people because of it.
An undercurrent of xenophobia is quite palpable in the "stop the boats" rhetoric, and more recently the anti-Muslim backlash, that is at the forefront of our current political landscape, generating even more cultural tension. It's a worrying business.
(It's quite alarming when political hopefuls pop up who still actually advocate for White Australia! http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...te-for-bennelong/story-fngr8gwi-1226700369806)
speculawyer
Member
And, like the USA, you don't have a great history to be all that proud of on race relations being that both countries are largely white cultures that crapped all over the indigenous culture. But the past is merely prologue, we all need to move on from that and be better.
Beerman462
Member
South Park episode.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_Goes_Nanners
The original flag looked like this.
So there is a big debate over the flag being racist and some want it changed. I'm referencing the end of the episode.
kurisu_1974
Banned
South Park episode.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_Goes_Nanners
The original flag looked like this.
So there is a big debate over the flag being racist and some want it changed. I'm referencing the end of the episode.
Keep this post handy for all future "is this racist" threads!
Lucian Cat
Kissed a mod for a tag; liked it
South Park episode.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_Goes_Nanners
The original flag looked like this.
So there is a big debate over the flag being racist and some want it changed. I'm referencing the end of the episode.
I see. Thankyou!
Fudgepuppy
Banned
One guy came as blackface Lil Wayne on Halloween, I was the only one who felt it wasn't appropriate.
Blackface, sadly, isn't as despised in the rest of the world as it is in USA.
Blackface, sadly, isn't as despised in the rest of the world as it is in USA.
kurisu_1974
Banned
The sad thing is that changing your skin colour is aparantly automatically blackface, even if it maybe isn't. Seems there is no room for nuance and interpretation, and people are not willing to discuss this becasue they already made up their minds.
the bahamas?
what that lil island full of black people originally brought over as slaves in honour of jesus christ and the queen?
it's all that degenerate dna innit?
I'm sick of self-loathing Australians. So many whinge and moan about how backwards Australia is. They clearly have never been overseas. We have some of the worlds best education, healthcare, worker rights, posterity, quality of life, a low crime rates, and with most of our cities in the top 10 best in the world, including #1 but oh my god, a golliwog! We're so backwards and awful!
The self-loathing Australians especially came out when Tony Abbott came into power, happily ignoring the fact half of what they whinged about was also what labour did as well.
No you're right. Selling a racist caricature to kids is fine and shouldn't be acknowledged as backward.
If you want to live in a bubble and say there is nothing wrong with this country that's fine with me.
But I can't do that.
Did you learn all of that from A Current Affair or something? Seriously. Australia is no better than any other western country. It probably wouldn't even make the top 3. Nationalism is ignorance.
I've been to the US, and yeah. While I was there, I definitely missed all the decriminalized marijuana, same-sex marriage and uncensored media that was back 'home' in Australia ... Oh wait.
I really don't like how the internet thinks all racial insensitivity is racism. Actual racism involves discrimination, dehumanization, hatred and perceived superiority over another race. These dolls may be in poor taste but I don't think they are being bought and sold as symbols of racism. Is someone racist if they buy Aunt Jemima syrup?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
He didn't say there was nothing wrong with Australia or even that the dolls were fine. He was commenting on another part of your post. But neither your general grievances with the country nor his defence of it is particularly on topic, so lets keep things focussed.
Actually, those are from studies and ranking on a world scale. Look them up if you think I'm just pulling shit from ACA. And when you see shit in other countries a golliwog isn't so bad. It's a relic sold at a few shop but are barely seen anymore. It's a bad thing but it doesn't make Australia backwards. You think AMERICA is more progressive? Do you want me to pull the 800 threads on GAF alone where "Black man gets killed by police" or "Black woman gets 50 years jail for smoking joint", or how states are constantly trying to opress minorities from voting? Maybe I should I just show the percentage of blacks currently in jail? What was it? 1 in 3 blacks will have been arrested in their lifetime? The racism is over, y'all!
Oh and America's freedom of the press is currently at an awful 46th in the world and dropping fast. Australia is at 28th. So please, tell me how America is so much better with marijuana and racism because I sure don't see people getting life in jail for smoking a joint in Australia.
Edit: Oh I didn't see ThoseDeafMutes post. If you want to reply feel free to pm.
OverBlood 3
Banned
They still sell these dolls in the UK.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
This kind of thing... is a manufactured issue.
It's not that there isn't a racist history associated with that imagery... it's that, it's so low on the totem pole of shit that matters - that bringing this to the forefront as if eliminating this one thing would make everything better - feels like the kind of a thing that some well meaning but unaware kind of person would campaign against and make a big deal out of, until it was gone.
And then we'll have solved racism right?
It's not that there isn't a racist history associated with that imagery... it's that, it's so low on the totem pole of shit that matters - that bringing this to the forefront as if eliminating this one thing would make everything better - feels like the kind of a thing that some well meaning but unaware kind of person would campaign against and make a big deal out of, until it was gone.
And then we'll have solved racism right?
It's a multi-faceted systems issue, of which things like golliwogs are very minor symptoms.
I don't think anyone is saying anything of the sort in this thread. It's just that some people, understandably, find the dolls offensive and insulting considering the history of how black people have been depicted.
Of course there are worse things, that's not the point. And no one would argue otherwise.
My grandmother has one of these as well as a bunch of other strange old toys. They were all above the bed where I'd sleep when staying at her house. I actually thought it was pretty nice and had no idea it was some sort of vestigial icon of racism. I rarely got to meet up with or talk to aboriginals (Australia btw) but I never associated the doll with them. I mean it was right next to a 1:1 Jamima doll from Playschool. I just thought it was a doll of a human in one of the myriads of skin colours we come in.
Then why are people insinuating that Australia is a significantly more racist place than other countries in a similar position (i.e. Americans mainly insinuating this) because of our insensitivity (literally, we don't give a hoot) in this particular trivial matter?
I'm not even arguing that Australia is or isn't a more racist place... just that I think trivial token points like this and the constellation of issues that it represents is really... a distraction away from a dialogue about the root causes and effect of racism.
We're so desperate to hammer down the boards with nails that we ignore why the boards are warping in the first place.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
I get called a golliwog when I let my hair grow out, I'm white, dunno.
All aspects of racism are battled all the time. This doesn't fly under the radar just because racism as a whole hasn't been resolved.
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