Google and Xbox just started the next platform war.

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People act like Netflix, music streaming whatever are indicative of this "inevitability" but the part being left out is the interactivity of games.

If your movie is 1 second behind, big deal. Then the movie starts one second later, and ends one second later. If your game is one second behind, then you have one second of control lag the whole game.

1 second is an extreme example and the reality is far more complex than the above, but I'm going for simplicity to demonstrate a point. Actually, video/music is only a one-way street as it downloads. Games on the other hand, also must upload your inputs. I can't even stand input lag issues on local machines, this would make the problem a joke.

Big business can push streaming all they want, but tech and infrastructure is so far off from anyone wanting to deal with it, it's just silly. Come on.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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The loss of high resolution graphics, latency, input lag, monthly payments. No thanks. I'm ready for next gen console.
That's exactly what a PC gamer would say about a console.

Yet you are perfectly fine with your console. It's basically going to replace consoles entirely it's exactly there demography.

Also imagine in the future.

If we could stream on any device all our games and also push streaming in a way that they can partially download half of the game to reduce input lag or even give you a option to download the entire game so you don't have to deal with input lag at all and have the full blown experience. And what if you can do that on hardware you desire with that.

Aka we just invented a 3rd party client on a pc to sell your games on.

Company's are backwards as hell and always have been when it comes to gaming.

Streaming should have already been a thing a decade ago
 
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Likes: cryptoadam

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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Its coming but towards the end of next gen. I expect next get to start off traditional but move to a streaming model, especially 3rd parties.

Also developers will eventually design games around the hardware like they always do.

Keep in mind something can be huge in gaming but not effect other areas of gaming. Streaming could and probably will take off but like cell phone games/F2P games it didn't kill console and AAA gaming. So streaming can live side by side with traditional hardwired gaming.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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Streaming is actually VRs biggest step. If you can stream to a wireless headset (even your phone) imagine the cheaper google cardboard type headsets with good tracking and no wires to connect and disconnect. Latency would be headache inducing though. Not much worse than youtube VR.
Yup. Streaming will be huge for VR.
 
Jan 25, 2018
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I really don't understand why people would want streaming for video games... It makes me sad.

Video Games is the only media where there isn't any compression, compared to music, pictures and video that are compressed, video games are rendered in real time on the hardware, giving you a perfectly clean, raw picture.
Game streaming totally removes that, that perfect and unique quality.

On top of that, game preservation and other things like that are another reason why I don't want it.
 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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Also getting to bigger picture. How do you get a large amount of people to pay for services? Look at Google(search, maps), Facebook, Whatsapp, LINE. Nobody pays for these things. Cultural we do not accept the idea of paying for a social network or messaging service. We view that as being lower than content. We do pay for content in the form of VOD services(HBO, Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, Comcast, Sky, etc...) or games(Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, iOS games).

What if Microsoft's big plan is for xCloud to gain 200 million paying users across all the devices(XBox, PC, smartphones, tablets, set-top boxes) to mitigate the console-only problem they have with Sony & Nintendo? Also even bigger picture, Google is getting into game streaming and so will Amazon and possibly others(Apple, Facebook, Netflix). Microsoft already sees a gigantic game streaming market in 5-7 years that Sony isn't seeing.

Now imagine $20/month for xCloud. $20 x 200 million * 12= $48 billion revenue PER YEAR on top of everything they currently do(Office, Azure, Personal Computing). This is a massive deal to the Microsoft Board and why Nadella said 'gaming is important' to them.

So while Sony & Nintendo think the game is about selling the most boxes, Microsoft is thinking services, services, services and 'oh we'll sell a few boxes too'.

Bottom line - if you're losing the current paradigm, shift it.
The thing with MS is I don't think they have the content to maintain a good hold on streaming. 3rd parties are not going to stay exclusive to MS service. Either they make their own like most of the big guys probably will (EA/UBI/ACTIVISON etc..) or they can go to Google/Amazon etc...

So unless MS can all of a sudden start producing that type of 1st party content I see this plan biting them in the butt.

If anything Nintendo might have the most to gain from this. They could still do dedicated hardware for their own software. And offer 3rd parties/Google/Amazon heck even MS to stream on their system. Nintendo actually has 2 streaming games on their system already. Its Japan only but its something 3rd parties are trying. AC is actually streaming in Japan on Switch right now (at least it was scheduled too). Who knows it might be possible that google could launch their service on the Switch when PS5 and XBOX 2X launches.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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People act like Netflix, music streaming whatever are indicative of this "inevitability" but the part being left out is the interactivity of games.

If your movie is 1 second behind, big deal. Then the movie starts one second later, and ends one second later. If your game is one second behind, then you have one second of control lag the whole game.

1 second is an extreme example and the reality is far more complex than the above, but I'm going for simplicity to demonstrate a point. Actually, video/music is only a one-way street as it downloads. Games on the other hand, also must upload your inputs. I can't even stand input lag issues on local machines, this would make the problem a joke.

Big business can push streaming all they want, but tech and infrastructure is so far off from anyone wanting to deal with it, it's just silly. Come on.
developers will design around that. Thats what developers have done since the dawn of gaming, develop around limitations until they eventually push past those limitations.

Phone games don't have physical buttons so it cant compare to console/PC gaming, yet Phone games are huge business with some of the biggest game companies being phone game companies.

Gaming takes on all different kind of forms and adapts to different hardware. PC gaming can be vastly different than console gaming. And those can be different than Phone games.
 
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Sep 23, 2016
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The thing with MS is I don't think they have the content to maintain a good hold on streaming. 3rd parties are not going to stay exclusive to MS service. Either they make their own like most of the big guys probably will (EA/UBI/ACTIVISON etc..) or they can go to Google/Amazon etc...

So unless MS can all of a sudden start producing that type of 1st party content I see this plan biting them in the butt.

If anything Nintendo might have the most to gain from this. They could still do dedicated hardware for their own software. And offer 3rd parties/Google/Amazon heck even MS to stream on their system. Nintendo actually has 2 streaming games on their system already. Its Japan only but its something 3rd parties are trying. AC is actually streaming in Japan on Switch right now (at least it was scheduled too). Who knows it might be possible that google could launch their service on the Switch when PS5 and XBOX 2X launches.

Hence why Microsoft is on a shopping spree for studios. They already knows this, Netflix knows this hence they invest aggressively in original content. The same idea applies on both Amazon and Google, why would third parties want to use their streaming service, when they can use their own?
 
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Likes: LittleBusters
Dec 3, 2004
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It's all about the games. If the streaming service is decent, and the games are there. People will adopt it.

But I think it's still gonna take a while.. we have a LONG way to go..
 
Jan 9, 2007
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Not going to happen. Most people use shitty WiFi on shitty internet connections. That won't make for a good experience. A Netflix subscription service for games is far far more likely to happen ala Gamepass.
 
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Gaming is going toward a streaming future full tilt. I can't believe all the bellyaching and naysaying here. It's laughably obvious this is the future. So you are a lag snob that will tolerate ZERO latency? Who cares? MS, Google, Amazon, etc., will stream gaming to the rest of the 99% of humanity.

Microsoft, who owns Windows real estate on the vast majority of PCs around the world, intends on creating the streaming seamless cloud desktop in the PC space. All your settings, docs, photos, apps, files, etc., available on any device anywhere in the world to you can get online. Just log in and bam, there you and all of your content are, exactly as you left it (including your XCloud games/saves/settings). It's brilliant and it's coming. Computing, gaming, movies/television and music is all going to the cloud. There is no stopping this train. Like it or not, it doesn't really matter when market giants are both capable and fiercely determined to make it happen. It's already begun.
 
Likes: LittleBusters
Jan 9, 2007
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Streaming is actually VRs biggest step. If you can stream to a wireless headset (even your phone) imagine the cheaper google cardboard type headsets with good tracking and no wires to connect and disconnect. Latency would be headache inducing though. Not much worse than youtube VR.
I have no idea why or how streaming to VR headsets entered a discussion about streaming from cloud services to home consumers. The two problem sets are vastly different.
 
Jan 9, 2007
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Gaming is going toward a streaming future full tilt. I can't believe all the bellyaching and naysaying here. It's laughably obvious this is the future. So you are a lag snob that will tolerate ZERO latency? Who cares? MS, Google, Amazon, etc., will stream gaming to the rest of the 99% of humanity.

Microsoft, who owns Windows real estate on the vast majority of PCs around the world, intends on creating the streaming seamless cloud desktop in the PC space. All your settings, docs, photos, apps, files, etc., available on any device anywhere in the world to you can get online. Just log in and bam, there you and all of your content are, exactly as you left it (including your XCloud games/saves/settings). It's brilliant and it's coming. Computing, gaming, movies/television and music is all going to the cloud. There is no stopping this train. Like it or not, it doesn't really matter when market giants are both capable and fiercely determined to make it happen. It's already begun.
You mean like I can do with all my games on my computer, PS4, or Xbox already? I don't understand the value proposition at all. There is zero chance a streaming service for games is the future of gaming. None.
 
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You mean like I can do with all my games on my computer, PS4, or Xbox already? I don't understand the value proposition at all. There is zero chance a streaming service for games is the future of gaming. None.
You can log into your Xbox account from any internet capable device in the world and resume gameplay? Obviously not.
 
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I believe that by 2030 you won't even need a home PC or a console at all, just streaming capable screens. People with a decent internet connection anyway.

Edit: Maybe even the next few years really.
 
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A service like this could be tailor made for a game like Minecraft, arguably Microsoft's biggest franchise. People I think are overreacting thinking this will be the only option in the future, though. If physical copies, Netflix like service, and streaming are thought of as fingers then the more fingers on the consumer the tighter the grip.
 
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While you can upgrade the storage in modern consoles many don't know how (I'm not one of them but just saying), the amount of storage you get is simply not adequate going forward (my PS4 I believe has 500GB and I only have a handful of games yet and having to delete games to install new ones).

If you have the internet speeds that can handle this kind of service it's very good for gamers, moving to a Netflix type subscription where you can play hundreds of games with no commitment is quite appealing, and storage no longer is an issue. I'm competitive in my online games so I'd never want to use this type of service for an online game (But I'd also not play competitive games on consoles given the choice), but I see no reason why I would not play a single player game this way. I tried Googles Project stream on my laptop and it was flawless.. I want to play the game it loads up in an instant.. it's impressive.

Early on such services were horrid (Onlive comes to mind) but ever since PSNow and Geforce Now they have been quite impressive, if you get a solid selection of games for a good monthly price, this can be huge.
I appreciate the explanation, but I can see why there's a lack of interest on the forum now. I feel like we're already at the point where we can easily build up hundreds of games in our libraries. And storage space... well, it's hard to get excited if that's a defining characteristic of the next generation.
 
Likes: Hayfield
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developers will design around that. Thats what developers have done since the dawn of gaming, develop around limitations until they eventually push past those limitations.

Phone games don't have physical buttons so it cant compare to console/PC gaming, yet Phone games are huge business with some of the biggest game companies being phone game companies.

Gaming takes on all different kind of forms and adapts to different hardware. PC gaming can be vastly different than console gaming. And those can be different than Phone games.
Yes, games can take all different forms depending on the platform. Man I vividly remember appreciating the nuances of this truth back when my platforms were Genesis and Game Boy.

Streaming is already one of those forms, and just like phones, it has limitations and isn't about to replace the game console. This isn't about streaming being another viable platform; people already use it. It's about streaming becoming the norm/dominant form of gaming, which to me is like suggesting VR was going to take off in 2000. Yeah it exists, but it's so far off from even being in the running of replacing a console it's just silly.

This is just companies seeing how much better it would be for them.

Even if you assume that people will, if given the option, choose to stream over buying physical, not everyone in the USA even has this option, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread the internet service isn't there. Why are we even discussing the further technical hurdles? This is nowhere near replacing the console, come on. As cryptoadam said, it can be just another option, like phones are. But it already is that. Nothing is changing. It will get a little more popular and hit a wall for a very long time.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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All the naysaying in here, it's ridiculous. It's happening because Microsoft, Google and Amazon are doing it. It doesn't matter what you think.
You know, there's a forum somewhat similar to this, where people aren't allowed to voice their discontent about basically anything. You should check it out.
 
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You mean like I can do with all my games on my computer, PS4, or Xbox already? I don't understand the value proposition at all. There is zero chance a streaming service for games is the future of gaming. None.
Theoretically you could buy a cheap $75 device and play any AAA game you wanted on it as part of your subscription for as long as you want.

Reality? Not a lot of value to you- this is really so companies can keep you buying games and delist older games.
 
Likes: LittleBusters
Sep 7, 2018
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The loss of high resolution graphics, latency, input lag, monthly payments. No thanks. I'm ready for next gen console.
Most of Australia couldn't stream 4K 60 which is a target of next gen, where I live we have the newly built national network and its only 30 down 10 up at full speed where I live which is barely enough for 4k 30 so good luck to anyone else at home that wants to use the internet while I play. I love playing games at high res now, no way am I going to watch laggy low res single player games. This shit is a long fucking way off here. No matter how much money a company has you can't just make every household have amazing internet. Also I don't want to subscribe monthly. I already hate playstation plus as, I don't want more of this subscription shit or I'm done with gaming.
 
Likes: MayauMiao
Jul 9, 2017
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Most of Australia couldn't stream 4K 60 which is a target of next gen, where I live we have the newly built national network and its only 30 down 10 up at full speed where I live which is barely enough for 4k 30 so good luck to anyone else at home that wants to use the internet while I play. I love playing games at high res now, no way am I going to watch laggy low res single player games. This shit is a long fucking way off here. No matter how much money a company has you can't just make every household have amazing internet. Also I don't want to subscribe monthly. I already hate playstation plus as, I don't want more of this subscription shit or I'm done with gaming.
As i pointed out before overall multiplayer games work better when the console is in the same datacenter as the server. Also they are aiming for 10mbs which is 1/3 of your connection.

If you want the best experience youll need a pro console or a pc anyway..
 
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It's already failed because it's not MS or Google or even Amazon's tech that needs to be advanced, it's the consumers internet. A large part of America is still on dial up.
 
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Honestly after trying the GeForce NOW beta this morning, I totally get it. I was able to play Monster Hunter World on Ultra settings at 1080p without any sort of hiccup at all...over wifi. It was impressive compared to when I tried PS Now a few months back
 
Likes: GoldenEye98
Jun 22, 2014
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We're already getting microtransactions out of the ass as it is, how the fuck are things getting better when companies have to cram up in a monthly subscription that isn't nuts expensive?
 
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It's coming if we like it now or now, just when. I hope it's at least another gen away myself.

The MAIN goal for all these companies is.... monthly subscriptions generating revenue. That's already more profitable than hardware and physical media. Also a way to curb piracy more.
 
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SO FREAKING TRUE! Why we acting as if Sony hasn't dominated this market for years. Yeah it has many flaws, but that's what streaming is like at the moment. It's weird when people ignore it, yet act like Google doing this BETA is such a big deal.
They already do with Netflix.
Wasn’t aware Netflix sold video games. What’s Crysis running for over there these days?
 
Jan 26, 2009
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Wasn’t aware Netflix sold video games. What’s Crysis running for over there these days?
Sony is bigger than just games. Netflix competes with them in other levels. If your going to make silly comments then don’t reply back. If you want to discuss how they allow other services in their platforms to compete with them fine. I feel stream from Xbox live could be another service that Sony could allow to sell more hardware while competing with psnow.
 
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Why delist old games?
Same reason they do now. If I'm still playing Final Fantasy 5 they can't force me to buy Final Fantasy 15.
There probably won't be THE ONE streaming service for games. There will be at least 2-4 if not more. If you want to replay a game you already played some years ago, it might not be there anymore because of a catalog refresh.

Just like it is today with Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu and so on. People will never learn.

I'll stick with physical/downloadable games (preferably drm-free).
 
Feb 2, 2009
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Theoretically you could buy a cheap $75 device and play any AAA game you wanted on it as part of your subscription for as long as you want.

Reality? Not a lot of value to you- this is really so companies can keep you buying games and delist older games.
Nice pipe-dream for users, but honestly where do you think the money to fund and maintain these AAA games is going to come from? If there are 100 games on a $7.99 msrp service, how much revenue is the developer of say a 20hr narrative action/adventure likely to see from that? Over what period of time will they be able to recoup their investment?

Ask a musician how they feel about royalty rates on Spotify etc. Peter Frampton claims he got $1700 for 55 million streams of Baby, "I love your way". Do you really think that games, particularly indie titles. are going to be exempt from the same sort of brutal economics?
 
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Hey kids, who'd like some lag in their single player games?
This.

I think there are interesting possibilities in streaming, like the Japanese Switch titles show how user "terminals" don't have to do the heavy lifting. Hardware costs can come seriously down on the consumer end, and there is no limit to what can be put on screen....

...but! As long as ISPs in the US remain as spotty and unreliable as they are, any games requiring reflexes are just a non-starter for me.