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Gotta Keep Reeducating People on "Whos who" in The Rights And Ownership to SPIDER-MAN

Spiderman the character is an asset within The SPIDER-MAN Franchise. The Franchise, like every Marvel property, is divided into 3 divisions: Comics, Film, and Merchandise* (I'll come back to this later).
Marvel itself is divided into Marvel Entertainment (Comics & Merchandise) and Marvel Studios (Film, e.i. MCU).
When Spiderman shows up in Comics and Merchandise, Marvel Entertainment owns the rights.
Before Marvel was bought by Disney and was selling all its assets (to avoided bankruptcy), Sony bought the film rights to the Spiderman...character in 1998. To this day, its Marvels own fault for making an unrecoverable deal saying: Paraphrasing, "As long as you keep making content, you keep ownership"
*But Spiderman in video games is clearly Merchandise, answer:


"Marvel offered to let Sony publish an exclusive game. Sony approached Insomniac Games, which picked Spider-Man out of the entire Marvel catalog of superheroes.

In 2018, Marvel’s Spider-Man launched exclusively for PlayStation 4. The game released to critical acclaim and has since become one fo the best selling superhero games of all time with over 13 million units sold worldwide as of August 2019." - Does Sony own the video game rights to Spider-Man?

No. Sony does not own the rights to the spiderman game, Sony Admits Selling Spider-Man Merchandising Rights Were Short-Sighted

Summarize:
Sony owns the Film rights to Spiderman characters (Spiderman, sinister six, Venom, etc)
Sony used to own the Merchandise right to Spiderman video game, but in recent years has had a partnership with Marvel Entertainment to produce games.
Sony (through Columbia Pictures) and Marvel Studios are in a partnership with the Spiderman film rights.
Pre Disney Marvel sold its character Film rights to avoid bankruptcy, keeping comics rights for themselves.
Disney bought Marvel and thus created Marvel Studios to produce films with the remaining characters they still had.



 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
No wonder they keep stamping out those spiderman movies over and over again.
No doubt. And most of them seem to reboot Spidey to his high school discovery days as they got zero ideas to keep a steady stream of stories and new villains going.
Why? He isn't even a real spider.
Or a man.
And these too. Compare Spidey to a real spider:

1. They arent blue and red, or have web markings on their skin
2. They dont swing from webs
3. They dont shoot out webs entangling victims
4. They dont shoot out webs from wrists
5. They arent acrobatic
6. They arent super strong
7. They dont have only two legs and two eyes
8. They dont have smooth skin like a human or costume, but covered in fine hairs
9. They prefer laying traps, hiding and waiting in darkness. Spiders dont go running into battle in daylight jumping, kicking, swinging and projecting webs at enemies 50 ft away

The only thing they have in common is both use webs to entangle and can cling to walls.
 
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EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Spider man the game is underrated especially compared to marvels British spider man. Peter shows more abilities in the game.
 
Not sure lol

but parody aside, Japaese Spiderman is probably still owned somewhere with Marvel Entertainment through Marvel International through Marvel Comic ...and Japanese company Toei Company
 

K' Dash

Member
Reeducation, wtf? Imagine giving a sh*t about this.
Is knowledge about Disney's corporate structure now required to enjoy a f*cking Spider-Man movie?

Dude feels the need to establish Sony's dominance over the world?

Maybe the other way around?

Either way this is pathetic, lol.
 

TheMan

Member
Hey as long as Sony and Disney stay on good terms we'll keep seeing spidey in the marvel universe so it's all good.

Oh and I hope they get the xmen in on that shit pronto
 

DrAspirino

Banned
Or a man.
Spider-teen xD

Jokes aside, I think the Spiderman franchise as a whole should return to Marvel Entertainment. It's just isn't sustainable in time for Sony Pictures (or any company for that matter) to be "in good terms" with Disney for a long period of time to fully integrate spidey into the MCU. In the long run, Sony Pictures will let spidey movies "die" if box-office performance isn't as good as expected, or Disney could perform another "FOX-acquisition" move and buy the whole Sony Pictures division from Sony (being this case more likely given how gargantuan is Disney at the moment).

I just hope neither kills the IP, since it was beginning to become interesting within the MCU.
 

hemo memo

Member
Hey as long as Sony and Disney stay on good terms we'll keep seeing spidey in the marvel universe so it's all good.

Oh and I hope they get the xmen in on that shit pronto
Didn’t they disagree last year and almost removed Spider-man from the MCU?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Hey as long as Sony and Disney stay on good terms we'll keep seeing spidey in the marvel universe so it's all good.

Oh and I hope they get the xmen in on that shit pronto

Marvel's already using more of the Mutant stuff in the MCU than Fox did in 20 years. Fox had the X-Men rights for 20 years, and they never went to Madripoor. We saw Madripoor in the MCU in literally the first thing filmed after the Fox-Disney deal was closed.

Didn’t they disagree last year and almost removed Spider-man from the MCU?

Sony just wants to be able to use Spider-Man in their shitty Venom/Morbuis/Kraven/Aunt May movies. With the multiverse Marvel's allowing it to happen.
 
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hemo memo

Member
Sony just wants to be able to use Spider-Man in their shitty Venom/Morbuis/Kraven/Aunt May movies. With the multiverse Marvel's allowing it to happen.
Venom is the worst super hero movie I have watched in years and that entire is going to be shitty. I just want Disney/Marvel to buy the film rights to Spidy so we can have more consistency.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
That is one ugly OP, why is all the text different colours?

Also, I don’t care, and can’t possibly fathom why anyone but shareholders would.
 

bitbydeath

Member
They own the film rights and the TV rights to shows longer than 45 minutes (the 30 min animated series on DisneyXD are owned by Disney/Marvel). That's it. The character and all merchandising/licensing rights reside with Marvel.
Character rights too.
It came up again last year or maybe the year before? I forget, it was around when square announced Sony would have exclusive Spider-Man skin in their Avengers game and it was stated that anytime Spider-Man was to be used in something Sony had to sign off on it.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Character rights too.
It came up again last year or maybe the year before? I forget, it was around when square announced Sony would have exclusive Spider-Man skin in their Avengers game and it was stated that anytime Spider-Man was to be used in something Sony had to sign off on it.

No, Marvel owns the character of Spider-Man. Sony has the film rights.

A good recent example was last week's episode of What If...? As it's a 30 min animated show, the Spider-Man rights in there fell under Disney. And due to that Sony didn't allow Tom Holland to voice the character.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
No, Marvel owns the character of Spider-Man. Sony has the film rights.

A good recent example was last week's episode of What If...? As it's a 30 min animated show, the Spider-Man rights in there fell under Disney. And due to that Sony didn't allow Tom Holland to voice the character.
Gaming side too, here’s one article I found, not the one that mentions Sony need to sign-off but close enough. Trying to find the right Spider-Man article is the whole needle in a haystack situation but it was said.
"So the beauty of Spider-Man, and what Spider-Man represents as a character, and as a world is... Again, it comes back to the relationship with PlayStation and Marvel," Amos said. "We happened to be... once you can execute and deliver, when it comes down to choices of where and what Spider-Man can be, that's a relationship question that PlayStation absolutely has the rights to, that as you guys know, with Sony's ownership there, and Marvel with Sony saying, 'Hey, this is something we can do. This is something we can do on this platform.'

It likely all changed when the terms were renegotiated after Spider-Man almost left the MCU.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Gaming side too, here’s one article I found, not the one that mentions Sony need to sign-off but close enough. Trying to find the right Spider-Man article is the whole needle in a haystack situation but it was said.


It likely all changed when the terms were renegotiated after Spider-Man almost left the MCU.

Nothing changed with who owns Spider-Man the CHARACTER. Marvel still does. They still publish the comics every month, and Disney still makes $1.6 billion every year licensing the CHARACTER. A AnotherDayAnotherDollar can back me up on this.
 

dr_octagon

Member
if i draw the best Spiderman (Tobey McGuire) on a Sony branded notepad but with a Marvel pen and sell T-shirt prints dressed as Mario in a store called 'Sornee Movies' who sues me for $103bn?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Yeah, it’s probably just film and gaming rights now.

No, Marvel Games owns the game rights. It's just the film rights. If Sony owned the game rights then Spider-Man couldn't have been in Ultimate Alliance 3 or any of Marvel's mobile games.
 

bitbydeath

Member
No, Marvel Games owns the game rights. It's just the film rights. If Sony owned the game rights then Spider-Man couldn't have been in Ultimate Alliance 3 or any of Marvel's mobile games.
It was stated Sony can sign-off on it.
Did you read the quote I put up above?
what Spider-Man can be, that's a relationship question that PlayStation absolutely has the rights to, that as you guys know, with Sony's ownership there
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
It was stated Sony can sign-off on it.

Nope, Marvel still owns the character as far as games go. The Crystal Dynamics developer in that interview was wrong.


The only rights Sony has is the use of Spider-Man characters for live-action feature films and TV shows (longer than 45 minutes). Disney owns everything else.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nope, Marvel still owns the character as far as games go. The Crystal Dynamics developer in that interview was wrong.


The only rights Sony has is the use of Spider-Man characters for live-action feature films and TV shows (longer than 45 minutes). Disney owns everything else.
You’re image also lists film and TV so I wouldn’t go by that source.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
You’re image also lists film and TV so I wouldn’t go by that source.

Again, Disney can make TV shows that are under 45 minutes. All of the DisneyXD Spider-Man shows and What If...? fall under Disney.

Sony's rights only apply to live action movies and shows longer than 45 minutes.

Are you seriously trying to claim the US Trademark office is wrong and that somehow Sony (not Marvel) owns the Spider-Man character?
 

sol_bad

Member
Sony Playstation got an exclusive license to make a few games but they don't own the Spider-Man IP for video games. Like how EA had exclusive license to make Star Wars games, they don't own the Star Wars IP. Same with Madden and FIFA etc.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Sony Playstation got an exclusive license to make a few games but they don't own the Spider-Man IP for video games. Like how EA had exclusive license to make Star Wars games, they don't own the Star Wars IP. Same with Madden and FIFA etc.

Pretty sure if EA had a popular console (RIP 3DO) their fanboys would be trying to claim they own Star Wars.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Again, Disney can make TV shows that are under 45 minutes. All of the DisneyXD Spider-Man shows and What If...? fall under Disney.

Sony's rights only apply to live action movies and shows longer than 45 minutes.

Are you seriously trying to claim the US Trademark office is wrong and that somehow Sony (not Marvel) owns the Spider-Man character?
I’m saying the deal obviously falls outside of the trademark since it lists things Sony has the rights too.
 

ShadowLag

Member
if i draw the best Spiderman (Tobey McGuire) on a Sony branded notepad but with a Marvel pen and sell T-shirt prints dressed as Mario in a store called 'Sornee Movies' who sues me for $103bn?

probably some music copyright shell company that goes around claiming videos on YouTube and Twitch.

(and Nintendo)
 
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Nothing changed with who owns Spider-Man the CHARACTER. Marvel still does. They still publish the comics every month, and Disney still makes $1.6 billion every year licensing the CHARACTER. A AnotherDayAnotherDollar can back me up on this.

Correctomundo. The latest figure we got from the licensing letter shows Disney made 1B though for Spidey merch, but that was 2018.

Yeah, it’s probably just film and gaming rights now.

Incorrectomundo. Marvel owns 100% of the merch rights, which includes gaming. Sony did sign a licensing agreement with Disney recently for Spidey (and Wolverine, probably others) so they have a temporary ownership of that license for gaming right now. It's restrictive

Basically Sony has, in perpetutity if the want:
1) Spider-Man movie rights, animated and live action
2) Spider-Man animated tv shows over 44 minutes
3) Spider-Man live action tv shows. Rights here may be a bit murky for streaming, but overall Sony owns this too.

Sony seems to own a temporary license for
1) Spider-Man titled video games
2) Wolverine titled video games

The latter eventually reverts to Marvel after the contract expires. This is a Marvel contract under Disney. It won't be signed in perpetuity like 90s Marvel. May be signed for 10+ years, but not in perpetuity. Even Marvel had sellers remorse from their 90s signings and tried to get them back with lawsuits and other dirty tricks.

The latter is also much more restrictive than the former as we know Marvel owns the design and art for the property in the game. CPII (Columbia) and SPA (Sony Animation) owns the design for the Marvel movies they produced. You may need to zoom in to look at the copyright, or you can google other examples on your own. I used FFH, ITTS, Spider-Man 2018 and Spider-Man MM toys.


You can also look at post credits where the copyright is made crystal clear in both the games and the movies. Regarding Marvel's Avengers and Spider-Man exclusivity it may be a separate deal or it may be a Sony first look deal as per their contract with Marvel Games. We don't know. We know they have no claim for games for 4 reasons, besides the ones above.

I will not link to the sources to the below since I have done so multiple times. If you want the sources you can see my post history or google it yourself.

1) Marvel lawsuit in 2003 resulted in Sony giving Marvel 25% of the JV for the Spider-Man merchandise. Disney buyout of the remaining 25% in 2011 meant that Sony had very little claim to SM merch going forward(just some promotional/free interactive games and material related to the movies being released. Must be used to advertise the movie. That's all Sony owns for merch now).
2) Mobile games have released Spider-Man and Spider-Man related characters even after the 2018 game came out, including the very well received Marvel Future Revolution and the one I used to play Marvel Strike Force. If Sony had any claim to the Spider-Man character then those 3rd party companies would have had to acknowledge it on their home page. It must all be listed or you can find yourself in a lawsuit. Only Marvel is acknowledged there
3) Console games have also come out AFTER Spider-Man 2018 came out, namely Marvel UA3. Sony is not named as a copyright owner anywhere in the product, only Marvel
4) Activision owned the game license to Spider-Man in the mid 2010s

Finally, and the most damning evidence, we have the 2011 leaked contract post Disney acquisition of the 25% merch. That makes it very clear in multiple sections of the document, I'll just choose one. Again you can google and read the contract if you want:

11.b(iii)(F)(1)(y) Consumer-Pay Business Models. Marvel shall have the right during each Picture Release Window to exploit Interactive Applications on any basis, using any business or economic model of any nature, which seeks to collect revenue directly from consumers for the privilege of playing or using the Interactive Application, including without limitation the following: (I) any business model in which the consumer is required to pay a fee to purchase, download, license or otherwise play the applicable Interactive Application, (II) using a “freemium“ model, under which the consumer is permitted to play a limited number of basic levels of the Interactive Application for free in order to induce the consumer to pay a fee to purchase, download, license or otherwise play additional levels of the applicable Interactive Application, (III) free-to-play games that derive revenue by explicitly prompting the consumer to pay for in-game commercial features (e.g., micro-transactions such as virtual property transactions for real money), and/or (IV) subscription services which charge the consumer a periodic fee for the right to play one or more interactive applications including Interactive Applications. During each Picture Release Window, no Interactive Application conducted or authorized by Marvel, and all related elements, taken as a whole, may (I) violate any of the ARG Protection Limitations, and/or (II) constitute, in the reasonable opinion of consumers, an alternative reality game provided however, that the forgoing limitations shall not apply to any Qualifying Subscription ARG, Qualifying Marvel Family ARG or Grandfathered Agreement. As used herein, “Qualifying Subscription ARG“ shall mean an Alternative Reality Game relating to the Property where the consumer pays a material subscription fee of not less than the greater of (i) $5 per month (excluding non-public beta testing and limited-time free trials not to exceed two [2] months in duration; provided that Marvel may not offer free trials during the six [6] month period prior to then-targeted initial theatrical release date of the applicable Picture in the applicable territory) or (ii) the customary subscription fee in the industry at the time for high-quality subscription-model massively multi-player on-line games.

11.b(iii)(F)(2) By Marvel Outside of Picture Release Windows. Outside of Picture Release Windows Marvel shall have the right to monetize Interactive Applications and/or Alternative Reality Games using any and all business models and methods in Marvel’s sole discretion (including for pay exploitation, ad-supported applications, in-game advertising, etc.) subject to the “Mix and Match” limitations on combining Picture-Related or Series-Related Elements with Classic or non-Property-related elements set forth in Section 11.b(iii)(G) and the limitations on Co-Promotions provided for in Section 11A.

11.b(iii)(F)(3) By SPE. Notwithstanding any contrary provision of this Agreement, SPE shall not have any right to exploit Interactive Applications or Alternative Reality Games at any time except for use in advertising and promotion of Productions and/or Co-Promotions in which no fee is charged to any consumer at any time (unless the Interactive Application is provided as a premium and applicable law requires that there be a charge, in which event SPE may charge the minimum amount permitted by applicable law).


I will not reply on this subject anymore. The evidence is there and clear as day.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Correctomundo. The latest figure we got from the licensing letter shows Disney made 1B though for Spidey merch, but that was 2018.



Incorrectomundo. Marvel owns 100% of the merch rights, which includes gaming. Sony did sign a licensing agreement with Disney recently for Spidey (and Wolverine, probably others) so they have a temporary ownership of that license for gaming right now. It's restrictive

Basically Sony has, in perpetutity if the want:
1) Spider-Man movie rights, animated and live action
2) Spider-Man animated tv shows over 44 minutes
3) Spider-Man live action tv shows. Rights here may be a bit murky for streaming, but overall Sony owns this too.

Sony seems to own a temporary license for
1) Spider-Man titled video games
2) Wolverine titled video games

The latter eventually reverts to Marvel after the contract expires. This is a Marvel contract under Disney. It won't be signed in perpetuity like 90s Marvel. May be signed for 10+ years, but not in perpetuity. Even Marvel had sellers remorse from their 90s signings and tried to get them back with lawsuits and other dirty tricks.

The latter is also much more restrictive than the former as we know Marvel owns the design and art for the property in the game. CPII (Columbia) and SPA (Sony Animation) owns the design for the Marvel movies they produced. You may need to zoom in to look at the copyright, or you can google other examples on your own. I used FFH, ITTS, Spider-Man 2018 and Spider-Man MM toys.



You can also look at post credits where the copyright is made crystal clear in both the games and the movies. Regarding Marvel's Avengers and Spider-Man exclusivity it may be a separate deal or it may be a Sony first look deal as per their contract with Marvel Games. We don't know. We know they have no claim for games for 4 reasons, besides the ones above.

I will not link to the sources to the below since I have done so multiple times. If you want the sources you can see my post history or google it yourself.

1) Marvel lawsuit in 2003 resulted in Sony giving Marvel 25% of the JV for the Spider-Man merchandise. Disney buyout of the remaining 25% in 2011 meant that Sony had very little claim to SM merch going forward(just some promotional/free interactive games and material related to the movies being released. Must be used to advertise the movie. That's all Sony owns for merch now).
2) Mobile games have released Spider-Man and Spider-Man related characters even after the 2018 game came out, including the very well received Marvel Future Revolution and the one I used to play Marvel Strike Force. If Sony had any claim to the Spider-Man character then those 3rd party companies would have had to acknowledge it on their home page. It must all be listed or you can find yourself in a lawsuit. Only Marvel is acknowledged there
3) Console games have also come out AFTER Spider-Man 2018 came out, namely Marvel UA3. Sony is not named as a copyright owner anywhere in the product, only Marvel
4) Activision owned the game license to Spider-Man in the mid 2010s

Finally, and the most damning evidence, we have the 2011 leaked contract post Disney acquisition of the 25% merch. That makes it very clear in multiple sections of the document, I'll just choose one. Again you can google and read the contract if you want:






I will not reply on this subject anymore. The evidence is there and clear as day.
Bookmarked.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Correctomundo. The latest figure we got from the licensing letter shows Disney made 1B though for Spidey merch, but that was 2018.



Incorrectomundo. Marvel owns 100% of the merch rights, which includes gaming. Sony did sign a licensing agreement with Disney recently for Spidey (and Wolverine, probably others) so they have a temporary ownership of that license for gaming right now. It's restrictive

Basically Sony has, in perpetutity if the want:
1) Spider-Man movie rights, animated and live action
2) Spider-Man animated tv shows over 44 minutes
3) Spider-Man live action tv shows. Rights here may be a bit murky for streaming, but overall Sony owns this too.

Sony seems to own a temporary license for
1) Spider-Man titled video games
2) Wolverine titled video games

The latter eventually reverts to Marvel after the contract expires. This is a Marvel contract under Disney. It won't be signed in perpetuity like 90s Marvel. May be signed for 10+ years, but not in perpetuity. Even Marvel had sellers remorse from their 90s signings and tried to get them back with lawsuits and other dirty tricks.

The latter is also much more restrictive than the former as we know Marvel owns the design and art for the property in the game. CPII (Columbia) and SPA (Sony Animation) owns the design for the Marvel movies they produced. You may need to zoom in to look at the copyright, or you can google other examples on your own. I used FFH, ITTS, Spider-Man 2018 and Spider-Man MM toys.



You can also look at post credits where the copyright is made crystal clear in both the games and the movies. Regarding Marvel's Avengers and Spider-Man exclusivity it may be a separate deal or it may be a Sony first look deal as per their contract with Marvel Games. We don't know. We know they have no claim for games for 4 reasons, besides the ones above.

I will not link to the sources to the below since I have done so multiple times. If you want the sources you can see my post history or google it yourself.

1) Marvel lawsuit in 2003 resulted in Sony giving Marvel 25% of the JV for the Spider-Man merchandise. Disney buyout of the remaining 25% in 2011 meant that Sony had very little claim to SM merch going forward(just some promotional/free interactive games and material related to the movies being released. Must be used to advertise the movie. That's all Sony owns for merch now).
2) Mobile games have released Spider-Man and Spider-Man related characters even after the 2018 game came out, including the very well received Marvel Future Revolution and the one I used to play Marvel Strike Force. If Sony had any claim to the Spider-Man character then those 3rd party companies would have had to acknowledge it on their home page. It must all be listed or you can find yourself in a lawsuit. Only Marvel is acknowledged there
3) Console games have also come out AFTER Spider-Man 2018 came out, namely Marvel UA3. Sony is not named as a copyright owner anywhere in the product, only Marvel
4) Activision owned the game license to Spider-Man in the mid 2010s

Finally, and the most damning evidence, we have the 2011 leaked contract post Disney acquisition of the 25% merch. That makes it very clear in multiple sections of the document, I'll just choose one. Again you can google and read the contract if you want:






I will not reply on this subject anymore. The evidence is there and clear as day.
A lot of your points take place before Sony renegotiated. We don’t know the outcome as it hasn’t been stipulated, all we know is what Square and other recent interviews have since stated.
 

sol_bad

Member
Will we be able to play as Venom? Or does he just appear as villain? I assumed it is the latter.

I honestly find it hard to believe they'd have him in the game and we can't play as him. Whether it's within the story or if it's an unlock is yet to be seen.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
We don’t know the outcome as it hasn’t been stipulated, all we know is what Square and other recent interviews have since stated.

No we know the outcome, and it's entirely content related with Sony's Spider-Man universe movies (Venom 2, Morbius, Kraven The Hunter). It had nothing to do with game rights. Sony wanted to use Spider-Man in those movies so they were taking him back. Marvel is allowing him and the MCU characters (like Vulture) to show up in those movies and you'll see when those come out. The whole multiverse thing with No Way Home is how they're going to allow it. The credits scene in Venom 2 apparently hints at it.
 

sol_bad

Member
No we know the outcome, and it's entirely content related with Sony's Spider-Man universe movies (Venom 2, Morbius, Kraven The Hunter). It had nothing to do with game rights. Sony wanted to use Spider-Man in those movies so they were taking him back. Marvel is allowing him and the MCU characters (like Vulture) to show up in those movies and you'll see when those come out. The whole multiverse thing with No Way Home is how they're going to allow it. The credits scene in Venom 2 apparently hints at it.

Let's see if he is even called by name in the film.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Let's see if he is even called by name in the film.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

They just did a UK fan event for Venom 2, so spoilers of what the credit scene is are out there:

It's Eddie laying in a bed and Venom asks him if he wants to see one second of what his species went through. Eddie looks strained and something happens, then everything is different. Spider-Man from FFH is seen on the TV, Venom says "He looks tasty" and starts licking the screen and then someone walks in wanting to know what they're doing in their room.

The implication is they jumped universes, likely tied to NWH.
 
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