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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Still worse explosions than mad max.

I played the game and it was fun with friends, but it was really a 6\10 at best.
The game was released in alpha state.
Lol you and Mad Max. Why dont you fuck the game already.

Anthem was a huge disappointment. I loved it, but i couldnt believe they had no DLC planned. Bioware clearly hate made the game. no idea why anyone would make a gaas game without planning any dlc.

And yeah, its probably 6-7 game at best. I really liked its end game compared to Destiny 2 which had me raging at the time because of all the grind. Anthem had its own issues with loot drop rate but it felt far more rewarding and fun to play than Destiny.

I have high hopes for Dragon Age which seems to be in development hell, but a next gen only frostbite engine game from the same Bioware team should in theory look stunning. So far this is all they showed 3 years ago so its likely been downgraded since but this looks way better than what we have gotten so far this gen.

F0p20jz.gif
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Lol you and Mad Max. Why dont you fuck the game already.

Anthem was a huge disappointment. I loved it, but i couldnt believe they had no DLC planned. Bioware clearly hate made the game. no idea why anyone would make a gaas game without planning any dlc.

And yeah, its probably 6-7 game at best. I really liked its end game compared to Destiny 2 which had me raging at the time because of all the grind. Anthem had its own issues with loot drop rate but it felt far more rewarding and fun to play than Destiny.

I have high hopes for Dragon Age which seems to be in development hell, but a next gen only frostbite engine game from the same Bioware team should in theory look stunning. So far this is all they showed 3 years ago so its likely been downgraded since but this looks way better than what we have gotten so far this gen.

F0p20jz.gif
Those stones in the lower part don't look that hot...

Dude mad max still has the best explosions and the best sandstorm and thunderstorm, if you don't think it's an incredible achievement for what is basically a pumped AA game, i don't know what to say, even the physics during the storm is great, only surpassed by just cause 4 cyclones.

You may want to replay the game in 4k on your pc,
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
poor mans arkham

looks a gen behind demon souls. A launch title
I like spidey iteration of free flow more than arkham series and web slinging beats the fucking batmobile everyday of the week (same for the bat hook + gliding)

Plot quality was about the same, just a matter of liking bat soup or grilled tarantulas.

Asylum was the only masterpiece in that series and it wasn't open world.
 
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Robbinhood

Banned
These comparisons are getting more desperate.

CP2077 ground level looking up, a few buildings in sight.

Spiderman 2: On top of the buildings looking down, thousands of buildings in sight.

CP looks great but SP2 is also impressive. Swinging through the city is going to be very immersive I have no doubt.
 
I like spidey iteration of free flow more than arkham series and web slinging beats the fucking batmobile everyday of the week (same for the bat hook + gliding)

Plot quality was about the same, just a matter of liking bat soup or grilled tarantulas.

Asylum was the only masterpiece in that series and it wasn't open world.
Disagree

Disagree

Disagree
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Those stones in the lower part don't look that hot...

Dude mad max still has the best explosions and the best sandstorm and thunderstorm, if you don't think it's an incredible achievement for what is basically a pumped AA game, i don't know what to say, even the physics during the storm is great, only surpassed by just cause 4 cyclones.

You may want to replay the game in 4k on your pc,
I am just kidding. I love Mad Max. It's one of the biggest surprises last gen. I was shocked at how good the game was both in terms of gameplay and story. the ending is phenomenal. I didnt even know i was that invested in the story until the ending hit.

I thought i owned the game on Steam. Maybe it was my friends and its no longer sharable on steam. I played it on the Pro but it was the base PS4 version so only 900p. Still one of the most graphically impressive games around. I dont particularly remember the explosions, but the thunderstorms particle effects were insane.

AC Unity and Mad Max proved to me that 900p is not a death sentence even on 4k tvs. The AA makes all the difference and why arkham knight and driveclub look so atrocious on 4k tvs.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I am just kidding. I love Mad Max. It's one of the biggest surprises last gen. I was shocked at how good the game was both in terms of gameplay and story. the ending is phenomenal. I didnt even know i was that invested in the story until the ending hit.

I thought i owned the game on Steam. Maybe it was my friends and its no longer sharable on steam. I played it on the Pro but it was the base PS4 version so only 900p. Still one of the most graphically impressive games around. I dont particularly remember the explosions, but the thunderstorms particle effects were insane.

AC Unity and Mad Max proved to me that 900p is not a death sentence even on 4k tvs. The AA makes all the difference and why arkham knight and driveclub look so atrocious on 4k tvs.
Dude the ending is super sad cmon

they let chumbucket die a stupid death, it was beyond sad, the dude was just pure awesomness

I hated whoever wrote that, he deserved to be adopted by chunk's family or some shit.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude the ending is super sad cmon

they let chumbucket die a stupid death, it was beyond sad, the dude was just pure awesomness
it was devastating. but i loved it for that reason. again, i didnt even know i cared until the ending. thats good storytelling imo.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I like spidey iteration of free flow more than arkham series and web slinging beats the fucking batmobile everyday of the week (same for the bat hook + gliding)

Plot quality was about the same, just a matter of liking bat soup or grilled tarantulas.

Asylum was the only masterpiece in that series and it wasn't open world.
Arkham's combat is an acquired taste. Id argue its deeper but you dont really notice it unless you are doing the challenges so that point is moot.

However, the level design is where Spiderman is lacking. I couldnt care less about the batmobile but at least they tried to do something with it. Puzzles, riddler challenges, combat. Spiderman is just so .... fluff. The story missions are so linear and boring. You go through some combat rooms then have a dialogue scene which is well produced and heart felt, and then maybe a setpiece to end it all off. Batman's levels are actual real video game levels with puzzles, exploration, environmental storytelling, boss fights. I really disagree with this notion that only the first one was metoirdvania when city had 4-5 dungeons each with new mechanics and arkham knight had at least 4. Just exploring the open world is more fun in Arkham games because of the riddler trophies. who the fuck liked finding backpacks and taking pictures. its so dumb.

AC Unity had a similar identifying landmarks challenge but they didnt make it piss easy like Spiderman does. They give you one hint and then you have to figure out where to go and what to take a picture of. Sometimes i had to refer to the ingame encyclopedia. now thats hardcore. insomniac makes games for kids i feel. No puzzles. No real challenge. even their combat challenges are piss easy. you can get hit and still ace them. Whereas in arkham games, you cant get hit AND you have to use all your abilities and moves in one combo to earn the highest rank.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Arkham's combat is an acquired taste. Id argue its deeper but you dont really notice it unless you are doing the challenges so that point is moot.

However, the level design is where Spiderman is lacking. I couldnt care less about the batmobile but at least they tried to do something with it. Puzzles, riddler challenges, combat. Spiderman is just so .... fluff. The story missions are so linear and boring. You go through some combat rooms then have a dialogue scene which is well produced and heart felt, and then maybe a setpiece to end it all off. Batman's levels are actual real video game levels with puzzles, exploration, environmental storytelling, boss fights. I really disagree with this notion that only the first one was metoirdvania when city had 4-5 dungeons each with new mechanics and arkham knight had at least 4. Just exploring the open world is more fun in Arkham games because of the riddler trophies. who the fuck liked finding backpacks and taking pictures. its so dumb.

AC Unity had a similar identifying landmarks challenge but they didnt make it piss easy like Spiderman does. They give you one hint and then you have to figure out where to go and what to take a picture of. Sometimes i had to refer to the ingame encyclopedia. now thats hardcore. insomniac makes games for kids i feel. No puzzles. No real challenge. even their combat challenges are piss easy. you can get hit and still ace them. Whereas in arkham games, you cant get hit AND you have to use all your abilities and moves in one combo to earn the highest rank.
I don't think it's deeper, you can use the combo with the hook, the gel, the batwing etc.

But spidey has a lot of acrobatic moves that you can chain plus the gadgets plus the costumes skills plus morales yellow thunder powers, i think they are comparable, just a matter of personal preference.

Batman has more heavy single hits reactions when he punches enemies, but spidey has the better, more realistic ragdoll when you beat them and they fly away, so again, matter of preference.

But i like webslinging WAY more than any traversal in batman and good traversal is crucial for me in open worlds (the reason why i was a fanboy of infamous saga...and attack on titan 2), and for the people who said that it has no skill requirement, maybe show me all the golds you collected in the "chase the drone or pidgeon or whatever the fuck it was" sidequests and then tell me that you can do that without any skill involved.

For the mid part i'm with you, that's why i would not score spidey more than a good 7.

I didn't cared for the riddler puzzles because i fucking hate puzzles :lollipop_squinting:
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not gonna lie those gifs look good. Honestly speaking, yes the game has kinda disappointed me GRAPHICALLY but I cannot lie I can’t wait to play the game. I loved the first two so goddamn much.
Those arent even the best gifs. ChiefDada be slipping. He's let jstevenson down.

q5H2KjE.gif


iqCl0bc.gif


And yes, the latest footage surprised even myself. There are still some very last gen looking assets and character models, but there seems to be a noticeable upgrade in lighting from Spiderman 1 and Miles.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
just to make sure, can you ensure VRR engages as it should? It most likely does but I just wanted to ensure cover all bases


The flag you can enable to show VRR engagement status;

7j37Uuj.png



4byRhi1.jpg
I enabled this and all it shows is a GSYNC sign on the top right corner. None of the stuff i see on your screen.

Still, my tv shows me when GSYNC or vrr is enabled if i press a button on the remote. It shows up. But the vrr doesnt help when panning the screen. It is jittery as fuck if its not locked at 60 fps. Once i downgraded to dlss performance from dlss quality and framerate was a locked 60 fps at all times with 70-80% gpu usage, it went away. whats weird is that the tv sometimes shows vrr and sometimes show gsync. maybe its a bug with the LG CX. i had a similar issue with GOW Ragnorak in its 40 fps unlocked vrr mode. jitteriness and camera stutter. had to turn off vrr and locked it to 40 fps to get a smooth experience.

Anyway, i somehow managed to get path tracing to run at 60 fps. dlss balanced was way too uneven at 1440p but dlss performance is mostly a locked 60 fps. at least while driving. doesnt look half bad either. but i know at night time even dlss balanced looked really blurry.



I wonder if 4070 owners are able to run this at 1440p dlss quality and use framegen to hit 60 fps.
 
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alloush

Member
Those arent even the best gifs. ChiefDada be slipping. He's let jstevenson down.

q5H2KjE.gif


iqCl0bc.gif


And yes, the latest footage surprised even myself. There are still some very last gen looking assets and character models, but there seems to be a noticeable upgrade in lighting from Spiderman 1 and Miles.
The one I loved the most was that one where he swings above a bunch of cars and traffic, cannot find it for some reason. But that one went hard!
 

yamaci17

Member
I enabled this and all it shows is a GSYNC sign on the top right corner. None of the stuff i see on your screen.

Still, my tv shows me when GSYNC or vrr is enabled if i press a button on the remote. It shows up. But the vrr doesnt help when panning the screen. It is jittery as fuck if its not locked at 60 fps. Once i downgraded to dlss performance from dlss quality and framerate was a locked 60 fps at all times with 70-80% gpu usage, it went away. whats weird is that the tv sometimes shows vrr and sometimes show gsync. maybe its a bug with the LG CX. i had a similar issue with GOW Ragnorak in its 40 fps unlocked vrr mode. jitteriness and camera stutter. had to turn off vrr and locked it to 40 fps to get a smooth experience.

Anyway, i somehow managed to get path tracing to run at 60 fps. dlss balanced was way too uneven at 1440p but dlss performance is mostly a locked 60 fps. at least while driving. doesnt look half bad either. but i know at night time even dlss balanced looked really blurry.



I wonder if 4070 owners are able to run this at 1440p dlss quality and use framegen to hit 60 fps.

srry it should be support indicator overlay
but if you see gsync sign, it means it still works

that's very interesting that it is jittery. but you said yourself it that is what's happening, could be related to that

i use dlss performance at 1440p too but sometimes vram runs out of juice. its a bit sad. it generally looks okay. but I definitely had to ditch ray reconstruction


btw photo mode capture (not the photo mode itself) bullshots johnny



its amazing that somewhere in the game there's a higher quality johnny model.

he looks okay in normal viewing distance but whenever I want to shoot him he looked so weird. never knew capturing would enhance him so much lol

myers is similar though. same model. but johnny definitely upgrades to a different model

 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
srry it should be support indicator overlay
but if you see gsync sign, it means it still works

that's very interesting that it is jittery. but you said yourself it that is what's happening, could be related to that

i use dlss performance at 1440p too but sometimes vram runs out of juice. its a bit sad. it generally looks okay. but I definitely had to ditch ray reconstruction


btw photo mode capture (not the photo mode itself) bullshots johnny



its amazing that somewhere in the game there's a higher quality johnny model.

he looks okay in normal viewing distance but whenever I want to shoot him he looked so weird. never knew capturing would enhance him so much lol

myers is similar though. same model. but johnny definitely upgrades to a different model

Yeah, photomode shots have always looked better than what i see when playing something like cybperunk or tlou part 1. they use higher quality assets and models.

Your 3070 is 8GB, right? my 10 GB card was definitely running out of vram at 4k dlss performance. but at 1440p performance it was very smooth. i was pleasantly surprised. and yes, ray reconstruction is bugged. has to be. game looks better without it.

I will redo that section with standard rasterization to see if i can spot the difference.
 

yamaci17

Member
Yeah, photomode shots have always looked better than what i see when playing something like cybperunk or tlou part 1. they use higher quality assets and models.

Your 3070 is 8GB, right? my 10 GB card was definitely running out of vram at 4k dlss performance. but at 1440p performance it was very smooth. i was pleasantly surprised. and yes, ray reconstruction is bugged. has to be. game looks better without it.

I will redo that section with standard rasterization to see if i can spot the difference.
of course, 8 gb. 10 gb is borderline enough for 1440p performance, though it is enough. 8 gb also enough most of the time at 1440p dlss performance. but combat and city driving tank things down.

4070 is a weird case. it has opacity micromaps which should boost performance at times, and even reduce memory consumption in certain scenes. it has micromeshes which should, once again, help. maybe it is helping. but it also has nerfed memory bandwidth... which is shameful.


bullshot is not that apparent on Myers. but there's still improved lighting and less noise of course.


Ray reconstruction is unusable at 1440p dlss perf and ultra perf. Heck, 1440p dlss ultra perf produces acceptable image quality. but RR literally ruins it

1440p dlss perf

1440p dlss ultra perf
 
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Luipadre

Gold Member
People can nitpick spiderman 2 all they want, but just look at insomniacs past games. All looks amazing in person on a good TV. Like even the 2018 spiderman game looks amazing, not to mention miles morales or rift apart.
 

Xtib81

Member
People can nitpick spiderman 2 all they want, but just look at insomniacs past games. All looks amazing in person on a good TV. Like even the 2018 spiderman game looks amazing, not to mention miles morales or rift apart.

No one's denying that. The problem is that the difference in visuals between spiderman and spiderman 2 is not that big. We should expect more from current gen only AAA games.
 

Senua

Gold Member
People can nitpick spiderman 2 all they want, but just look at insomniacs past games. All looks amazing in person on a good TV. Like even the 2018 spiderman game looks amazing, not to mention miles morales or rift apart.
People were expecting a generational leap from Spiderman, but TBH most people's memories of the first Spiderman are most likely from the PS5 version so that hasn't helped their perception at all
 

SABRE220

Member
Thats why we are saying that ALL teams work on ONE engine. So one one team does develop something like realistic hair, another team can just leverage that because they are working within the same engine.

If ND is currently working on adding RT support for their next game, wouldnt it be great if they were using the same engine as insomniac so they dont have to do any of the RT R&D?

Everyone works on the same engine making commits as they go along like KojiPro did with Decima. if Koipro and GG can do it. So can other sony studios. Especially now that R&D on these engines is more challenging than ever with primitive and mesh shaders, machine learning support, RT support and all kinds of different destruction and physics simulations being added. its a gigantic waste of everyone's time if each sony studio is doing their own R&D on each of these features.
That would be limiting to the game designs from the teams. If some game dev wants to push a certain aspect of design heavily the standardized engine might not be the most efficient option ash showcased when ea tried to force frostbite on every team.

The very reason we had such amazing results in the ps3 gen was because the sony first parties each pushed tech in their design direction to the next level. Also, they shared some tech breakthroughs like mlaa in the ice team. The problem this generation isn't the lack of tech sharing its the absolute lack of ambition and low standards displayed by the current teams. They dont want to push their own tech beyond their comfort zone so why would they go through the hassle of importing new tech even if its better.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
People were expecting a generational leap from Spiderman, but TBH most people's memories of the first Spiderman are most likely from the PS5 version so that hasn't helped their perception at all
They also didnt do themselves any favors releasing that target render.

ezgif-2-bc8541ff30.gif


Yessiiiir. I looove this gif honestly, shit looks like it was taken from a movie
I really like this time of day lighting. I know we talked about this when this trailer came out, but just changing the color tone helps a lot.

If they can get the game looking like the bullshots, i would be happy with it.

F6KDPfqWcAAIc5Q


marvels-spider-man-2-ps5-screenshot-gallery-4.large.jpg


MSM2_GameplayReveal_MilesWebWings_4K_Legal_2023-scaled.jpg


They came very close matching the final bullshot so there is hope. they just need to bring the camera closer. its too far away right now.
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
I personally am more interested in how well the night scenes are rendered. Especially in a densely lit metropolitan city environment like NYC. We saw how the Matrix demo faired (very well); if Spider-Man isn't in that ballpark, I simply will not purchase. Even with all it's faults, FFXVI proved what is possible with ambient lighting and shadow quality for night scenes. I refuse to go backwards, especially with a first party game.




Jacinda, whoever/wherever you are in this thread - Thank you for listening.

The Office Crying GIF
 

alloush

Member
They also didnt do themselves any favors releasing that target render.

ezgif-2-bc8541ff30.gif



I really like this time of day lighting. I know we talked about this when this trailer came out, but just changing the color tone helps a lot.

If they can get the game looking like the bullshots, i would be happy with it.

F6KDPfqWcAAIc5Q


marvels-spider-man-2-ps5-screenshot-gallery-4.large.jpg


MSM2_GameplayReveal_MilesWebWings_4K_Legal_2023-scaled.jpg


They came very close matching the final bullshot so there is hope. they just need to bring the camera closer. its too far away right now.

Yes that time of day is the best for me. I wonder if they got day/time dynamic cycles ala GTA? Or a game like Spidey wouldn’t have it?



Jacinda, whoever/wherever you are in this thread - Thank you for listening.

The Office Crying GIF

Ok, OK I am starting to dig this game. Ffs Chief you should get paid by Insomniac I swear.

Plot twist: Chief is the head of marketing at Insomniac.
 

proandrad

Member
They also didnt do themselves any favors releasing that target render.

ezgif-2-bc8541ff30.gif



I really like this time of day lighting. I know we talked about this when this trailer came out, but just changing the color tone helps a lot.

All insomniac needs to do is add an obnoxious amount of motion blur, depth of field, and make everything look wet to make the graphic clowns happy.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lol, it's happening guys

Izgmalo.jpg
alfred-pennyworth-batman.gif


That would be limiting to the game designs from the teams. If some game dev wants to push a certain aspect of design heavily the standardized engine might not be the most efficient option ash showcased when ea tried to force frostbite on every team.

The very reason we had such amazing results in the ps3 gen was because the sony first parties each pushed tech in their design direction to the next level. Also, they shared some tech breakthroughs like mlaa in the ice team. The problem this generation isn't the lack of tech sharing its the absolute lack of ambition and low standards displayed by the current teams. They dont want to push their own tech beyond their comfort zone so why would they go through the hassle of importing new tech even if its better.
There will be growing pains I bet, but I doubt it will be as bad as frostbite for a few reasons.

Decima has seen several different genres of games already. Killzone Shadow Fall was a linear first person shooter. Until Dawn was an adventure game with really high quality character model for its time. Horizon and Death Stranding are a third person open world game. Unlike Bioware and other EA sports studios, Sony studios make the same open world third person cinematic action games.

I am with you on lack of ambition and the desire to set industry standards. Spiderman, GT7, TLOU Part 1 and GOW Ragnorak support your claim. However, it's no surprise that ND, Bluepoint and Sucker Punch and have now gone 3 years without showing their games. Back in the day 3 years was the total dev time. Now 3 years isnt enough good enough to get a small teaser let alone a gameplay demo? Why do you think that is?

I think they HAVE to be reworking their engines and thats where the bottleneck is. We know what happened with Bend, they had a bunch of projects cancelled, but ND and Sucker Punch shouldve begun their next project immediately. Unless they were doing R&D for the last 3 years for new tech like nanite, lumen or even RTGI. Bluepoint made Demon Souls in 2.5 years. Its been almost 3 years since DS came out and we know nothing about them.

I highly doubt everyone got lazy these past few years lol. I have a feeling that everyone is playing chicken right now. Its the calm before the storm. No one wants to reveal anything before GTA6 because they dont want to get shown up by Rockstar. However, lots of A tier studios are working on UE5. CD project, Crystal Dynamics, Coalition Games, Kingdom Hearts 4 are all using UE5 and they are due to show their games just like Sony studios who have been MIA since 2020. Surely, matrix graphics are around the corner. Take2 said GTA6 is coming before the end of next fiscal year so holiday 2024 should be it. We are in the end game now.
 

Schmendrick

Member
Ok these look very VERY good. So good that I am now confused by the asset quality disparity from different sources of videos and screenshots. Would you be able to share video of you roaming around in the environments shown (ideally screenshot #6)?
Here's one from yt with someone giving a good impression of the main zones.
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Ok these look very VERY good. So good that I am now confused by the asset quality disparity from different sources of videos and screenshots. Would you be able to share video of you roaming around in the environments shown (ideally screenshot #6)?

I got you, fam:




Sadly, YouTube is absolutely CRUSHING the detail and image quality, holy smokes.

This is how it looks natively minus whatever compression Imgur is adding:


ezKHblv.jpg


y4EkfA0.jpg


T3pySZL.jpg


We have new footage of spidey 2 that impressed slimy? Are we sure it wasn't starfield with a web slinging mod?

A link please?

Slinging between a grand total of 5 skyscrapers of New Atlantis sounds EXCITING!
 
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