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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Interesting to see so many people praising HFW. I was initially very pleased with the visuals on PS5 but I think the graphics are already becoming dated and it's all because of lighting. It's just way too harsh with no appreciation or focus on proper shadows. It looks even worse with screenshots.
 

GymWolf

Member
Interesting to see so many people praising HFW. I was initially very pleased with the visuals on PS5 but I think the graphics are already becoming dated and it's all because of lighting. It's just way too harsh with no appreciation or focus on proper shadows. It looks even worse with screenshots.
It's because not everyone gives that many fucks about realistic lights and we can apprecciate how the game destroy 95% of games in the market in other aspects while being a 2 years old crossgen massive open world.

It's not really that interesting or curious, the game still looks glorious for most people, even slightly more on pc.
 
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Rheon

Member
There's something about the overall look of HFW that I just don't vibe with.

Like technically and fidelity-wise it looks great, but the overall images I see just always look... off.
 

SABRE220

Member
Interesting to see so many people praising HFW. I was initially very pleased with the visuals on PS5 but I think the graphics are already becoming dated and it's all because of lighting. It's just way too harsh with no appreciation or focus on proper shadows. It looks even worse with screenshots.
If horizon graphics are dated then what does that say about 95percent of games released so far that are inferior. The lighting engine is a weak point but that's simply because most everything else is very high tier and the end package is gorgeous. The lighting engine itself is up there with most other games not using rt gi and its using baked lighting and standard gi just like spiderman 2 which you hype to high heavens despite its lighting being unremarkable outside select scenarios and times of the day just like horizon.
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
It's because not everyone gives that many fucks about realistic lights and we can apprecciate how the game destroy 95% of games in the market in other aspects while being a 2 years old crossgen massive open world.

It's not really that interesting or curious, the game still looks glorious for most people, even slightly more on pc.


If horizon graphics are dated then what does that say about 95percent of games released so far that are inferior. The lighting engine is a weak point but that's simply because most everything else is very high tier and the end package is gorgeous. The lighting engine itself is up there with most other games not using rt gi and its using baked lighting and standard gi just like spiderman 2 which you hype to high heavens despite its lighting being unremarkable outside select scenarios and times of the day just like horizon.

I expect much more from Horizon/Guerrilla compared to 95% of game developers. I think most others in this thread do as well.
 

SABRE220

Member
I expect much more from Horizon/Guerrilla compared to 95% of game developers. I think most others in this thread do as well.
Definitely that is true, sadly they were made to create a cross gen release for the ps4 and they did an amazing job with that in mind. That being said to claim the game looks dated and on the same side say spiderman 2 is in contention for best graphics is jarring especially when being critical of inconsistent lighting.
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Waking up to Hellblade 2 being 30fps only is the best news all year. Squeeze every inch out of that console, not a single ounce sacrificed for framerate. maxium visual fidelity.

you fools better buy 2 copies of this game, they are one of the only studios in the industry that truly prioritize graphics and presentation
 
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GymWolf

Member
Waking up to Hellblade 2 being 30fps only is the best news all year. Squeeze every inch out of that console, not a single ounce sacrificed for framerate. maxium visual fidelity.

you fools better buy 2 copies of this game, they are one of the only studios in the industry that truly prioritize graphics and presentation
I wanna see more of the "gameplay", some nice animations (that still look worse compared to tlou2) during the 1vs1 is not enough to pay full price.

If you fight every 30 min after some slow jogging and puzzle solving, they can keep it.

I didn't caved for anal wake 2, i'm not gonna cave for crazy bitch vol 2 if the game is as boring as i imagine.
 
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mrMUR_96

Member
Waking up to Hellblade 2 being 30fps only is the best news all year. Squeeze every inch out of that console, not a single ounce sacrificed for framerate. maxium visual fidelity.

you fools better buy 2 copies of this game, they are one of the only studios in the industry that truly prioritize graphics and presentation
I really hope this comes to ps5 at some point, my pc is really out of date now and don't want to spend the money upgrading it or buying an xbox, but want to play this.
 

Lethal01

Member
Waking up to Hellblade 2 being 30fps only is the best news all year. Squeeze every inch out of that console, not a single ounce sacrificed for framerate. maxium visual fidelity.

you fools better buy 2 copies of this game, they are one of the only studios in the industry that truly prioritize graphics and presentation

Nah
The game comes out on pc.. and series S. Being locked to 30fps isn't really a reason to think they are doing anything that would stop them from including a 60fps mode that just have a low resolution and other settings, but we will see.
 

GymWolf

Member
There's no reason this look can't be achieved particularly on PS5 Pro. This is what I want from the lighting. Still has the signature Horizon artstyle.


Yeah forget about that, that is ps6 material buddy.

The game is gonna be made with ps5 specs in mind, the pro version is gonna have better framerate or resolution or some minor graphical improvement.
 

GymWolf

Member
Nah, this gen.





Nothing minor about additional RT and upscaling HW. Developers will easily claw back double digit ms render budget

You put too much hope on the pro hardware.

They are not gonna make 2 different games where one has raytraced lights and one has raster light, you are dreaming dude.

The differences are gonna be like the difference between ps4 and pro, no idea why you think that guerilla is gonna develop a new light system just for the pro.
They are gonna make what a ps5 can sustain, 90% of people are gonna use a basic ps5 to play the game, not the opposite.
If they squeeze the ps5 cpu for word simulation and shit you can even say goodbye to a 60 fps mode on pro if the cpu is still trash like on the og model.
 
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You put too much hope on the pro hardware.

They are not gonna make 2 different games where one has raytraced lights and one has raster light, you are dreaming dude.

The differences are gonna be like the difference between ps4 and pro, no idea why you think that guerilla is gonna develop a new light system just for the pro.
They are gonna make what a ps5 can sustain, 90% of people are gonna use a basic ps5 to play the game, not the opposite.
If they squeeze the ps5 cpu for word simulation and shit you can even say goodbye to a 60 fps mode on pro if the cpu is still trash like on the og model.
This is the same guy who lost his mind over Spider-Man 2, rational thought is not on his agenda.
 

Schmendrick

Member
Nah, this gen.





Nothing minor about additional RT and upscaling HW. Developers will easily claw back double digit ms render budget

PR material from a, in this form, not actually existing game is not exactly a strong argument for the PS5 Pro being basically capable to 1-up CP2077s 4090-PC pathtracing.
Season 9 Smh GIF by The Office
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
You put too much hope on the pro hardware.

They are not gonna make 2 different games where one has raytraced lights and one has raster light, you are dreaming dude.

That's the beauty of PS5, and by extension, the PS5 Pro: Since PS5 has RT hardware, developers can make an RT game and not have to worry about PS5 missing out on core features. PS5 Pro can simply add additional RT effects just as the leaked docs mentioned was the goal. Where PS5 has RTGI only, PS5 Pro can have RTGI and RT Reflections and can do it at a MUCH higher fidelity thanks to additional RT hardware and more importantly, PSSR.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You put too much hope on the pro hardware.

They are not gonna make 2 different games where one has raytraced lights and one has raster light, you are dreaming dude.

The differences are gonna be like the difference between ps4 and pro, no idea why you think that guerilla is gonna develop a new light system just for the pro.
They are gonna make what a ps5 can sustain, 90% of people are gonna use a basic ps5 to play the game, not the opposite.
If they squeeze the ps5 cpu for word simulation and shit you can even say goodbye to a 60 fps mode on pro if the cpu is still trash like on the og model.
I agree. PS5 pro wont magically make the games look that much different.

However, sony did say that in some non-RT PS5 games, they can add RT to the PS5 Pro version in the leaked documents. However, it will be more like a cybperunk and Alan Wake 2 situation since the game will have been art'ed around the base PS5 specs. So the bakes would handle most of non-dynamic lighting.
 

GymWolf

Member
I
I agree. PS5 pro wont magically make the games look that much different.

However, sony did say that in some non-RT PS5 games, they can add RT to the PS5 Pro version in the leaked documents. However, it will be more like a cybperunk and Alan Wake 2 situation since the game will have been art'ed around the base PS5 specs. So the bakes would handle most of non-dynamic lighting.
Adding rtx can just mean adding rtx shadows or reflections.

I just can't see guerrilla wasting money to create a light system that only 10% of players are gonna enjoy.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes

This is why you dont make cross gen games until 2022. 2 years into the gen. Because that means that even 4 years into the generation, they wont even be ready to show off their first true next gen game. Let alone release it. This is likely a 2028 PS6 cross gen title. What a bunch of retards. I dont ever want to hear that devs know better. they dont. they are complete tools. Imagine being a first party studio, and probably the one loaded with the most talent and skipping an entire generation. The funny thing is that the guy responsible for this decision got a promotion and now runs all sony first party studios. Fail upwards indeed.
 
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GymWolf

Member
That's the beauty of PS5, and by extension, the PS5 Pro: Since PS5 has RT hardware, developers can make an RT game and not have to worry about PS5 missing out on core features. PS5 Pro can simply add additional RT effects just as the leaked docs mentioned was the goal. Where PS5 has RTGI only, PS5 Pro can have RTGI and RT Reflections and can do it at a MUCH higher fidelity thanks to additional RT hardware and more importantly, PSSR.
That's why i said that they are gonna make something that a base ps5 can sustain and just add bells and whistles in the pro version, raytraced reflections and shadows are exactly that, not something as transformative as a complete new light system.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I wanna see more of the "gameplay", some nice animations (that still look worse compared to tlou2) during the 1vs1 is not enough to pay full price.

If you fight every 30 min after some slow jogging and puzzle solving, they can keep it.

I didn't caved for anal wake 2, i'm not gonna cave for crazy bitch vol 2 if the game is as boring as i imagine.
Like alan wake 2, its only $40. $10 if you get it on gamepass. cant hurt to try it for graphics.

the good thing is that unlike alan wake 2, its not a 25 hour game. i can handle walking in an 8 hour game. its the 25-30 hour games where walking become tedious. Also after dragons dogma 2, i dont ever want to play a 50 hour game with 25 hours of forced walking because of their shitty fast travel system.
 

GymWolf

Member
Like alan wake 2, its only $40. $10 if you get it on gamepass. cant hurt to try it for graphics.

the good thing is that unlike alan wake 2, its not a 25 hour game. i can handle walking in an 8 hour game. its the 25-30 hour games where walking become tedious. Also after dragons dogma 2, i dont ever want to play a 50 hour game with 25 hours of forced walking because of their shitty fast travel system.
Nope, sorry, i'm a gamer before being a graphic whore, i never bought a game just for the graphic, at worse i double dipped on pc to play the better version of games that i already liked on console.

If the game is similar to the first one, i'm just gonna enjoy your opinions about it.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That's why i said that they are gonna make something that a base ps5 can sustain and just add bells and whistles in the pro version, raytraced reflections and shadows are exactly that, not something as transformative as a complete new light system.
Didnt DF say that the Death Stranding 2 trailer showed off glimpses of RTGI? I think GG will definitely add RTGI to their game. It helps with these forest and wilderness areas the most and especially with day and night cycles. So its possible the base PS5 version already has RTGI and the PS5 Pro likely uses more rays or more bounce per rays similar to the cyberpunk and dragons dogma 2 mods.

But I also dont think we are getting lighting anywhere close to that cg trailer this gen though. The biggest lighting upgrade in that trailer are the volumetric lighting effects which RTGI will enhance for sure but those are very heavy even in linear games. Even Avatar eschews those volumetric lighting effects in the open world, and spiderman 2 straight up cut them after the original reveal.

Here is that CG trailer for TLOU2. Look at the volumetric fog effects. yes, the animations are amazing, and asset quality is higher but nothing we havent seen from nanite. its that thick fog and volumetric effects that give games a cg feel and you are not getting that in an open world game this gen.

CBcHhna.gif


Most people dont realize that the very first Horizon trailer had this very cg look before it was downgraded. So this was likely their target before suits came in and forced them to downgrade the PS5 version. You can see some great draw distance, way more impressive foliage, way better asset quality, lighting quality, god rays, and shadows far into the distance.

I bet this is what we finally get in Horizon 3 with a slightly more realistic color tone.

Jf78Rfd.gif


yPWXmMK.gif


giphy.gif
 

GymWolf

Member
Didnt DF say that the Death Stranding 2 trailer showed off glimpses of RTGI? I think GG will definitely add RTGI to their game. It helps with these forest and wilderness areas the most and especially with day and night cycles. So its possible the base PS5 version already has RTGI and the PS5 Pro likely uses more rays or more bounce per rays similar to the cyberpunk and dragons dogma 2 mods.

But I also dont think we are getting lighting anywhere close to that cg trailer this gen though. The biggest lighting upgrade in that trailer are the volumetric lighting effects which RTGI will enhance for sure but those are very heavy even in linear games. Even Avatar eschews those volumetric lighting effects in the open world, and spiderman 2 straight up cut them after the original reveal.

Here is that CG trailer for TLOU2. Look at the volumetric fog effects. yes, the animations are amazing, and asset quality is higher but nothing we havent seen from nanite. its that thick fog and volumetric effects that give games a cg feel and you are not getting that in an open world game this gen.

CBcHhna.gif


Most people dont realize that the very first Horizon trailer had this very cg look before it was downgraded. So this was likely their target before suits came in and forced them to downgrade the PS5 version. You can see some great draw distance, way more impressive foliage, way better asset quality, lighting quality, god rays, and shadows far into the distance.

I bet this is what we finally get in Horizon 3 with a slightly more realistic color tone.

Jf78Rfd.gif


yPWXmMK.gif


giphy.gif
I'm gonna be severely unimpressed if that is what we get with h3.

I don't see much difference with the final game except the bubble water effects and some better minor details here and there.
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
PR material from a, in this form, not actually existing game is not exactly a strong argument for the PS5 Pro being basically capable to 1-up CP2077s 4090-PC pathtracing.
Season 9 Smh GIF by The Office

Why are you referencing 4090? Is there a core rendering (not framerate/resolution) difference between what a 4070 is doing vs a 4090 when running path-traced CP? The answer is no. Console gamers are fine with playing at 30fps and 60fps. Developer budget and optimization is much more important in the case of PS5 Pro since it basically confirmed to have the same enabling HW to run something like a path-traced CP. You will not see PT from Sony first party because of base PS5, but if you think PS5 Pro isn't getting access to Cyberpunk PT 30fps mode, you're not paying attention.
 

Schmendrick

Member
Why are you referencing 4090? Is there a core rendering (not framerate/resolution) difference between what a 4070 is doing vs a 4090 when running path-traced CP? The answer is no. Console gamers are fine with playing at 30fps and 60fps. Developer budget and optimization is much more important in the case of PS5 Pro since it basically confirmed to have the same enabling HW to run something like a path-traced CP. You will not see PT from Sony first party because of base PS5, but if you think PS5 Pro isn't getting access to Cyberpunk PT 30fps mode, you're not paying attention.
Dude, the one not paying attention is you.
That Horizon Trailer you`re referencing is basically flawless at what it does. High fidelity with very consistent lighting with all the voluemtric effects going on and at a rather high resolution.
If something like that were to run dynamically in real time in an actual game you`d definitely need a lighting solution like PT and even a 4090 probably wouldn`t be able to produce a picture as clean as that then....
 
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GymWolf

Member
Dude, the one not paying attention is you.
That Horizon Trailer you`re referencing is basically flawless at what it does. High fidelity with very consistent lighting with all the voluemtric effects going on and at a rather high resulution.
That is PT and at this fluidity easily 4090 territory right there.
I don't think that even a 4090 can make that trailer fully playable tbh.

But then again, we have no idea how a game made around 4090 specs would look, but that trailer is straight cg, cheap, low quality cg, but still cg.
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I wanna see more of the "gameplay", some nice animations (that still look worse compared to tlou2) during the 1vs1 is not enough to pay full price.

If you fight every 30 min after some slow jogging and puzzle solving, they can keep it.

I didn't caved for anal wake 2, i'm not gonna cave for crazy bitch vol 2 if the game is as boring as i imagine.
The combat looks fucking visceral as fuck and hard hitting as fuck. 1 vs 1 encounters and literally every encounter is mo capped. This thing is gonna be special for graphic whores.

It’s quite literally The Northman in game form.

I cannot wait for this shit
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Why are you referencing 4090? Is there a core rendering (not framerate/resolution) difference between what a 4070 is doing vs a 4090 when running path-traced CP? The answer is no. Console gamers are fine with playing at 30fps and 60fps. Developer budget and optimization is much more important in the case of PS5 Pro since it basically confirmed to have the same enabling HW to run something like a path-traced CP. You will not see PT from Sony first party because of base PS5, but if you think PS5 Pro isn't getting access to Cyberpunk PT 30fps mode, you're not paying attention.
yeah, i can run cyberpunk PT at 30 fps at 4k dlss performance though not consistently as it drops to 27 and 25 fps at times. with some settings downgrades and maybe one PT ray instead of two they should be able to run it on the PS5 pro if the leaks are true and the RT performance is roughly equivalent to a 3080. The question is will anyone bother?

Maybe we will get hardware accelerated lumen on the PS5 Pro and Software Lumen on the base PS5.
 

GymWolf

Member
The combat looks fucking visceral as fuck and hard hitting as fuck. 1 vs 1 encounters and literally every encounter is mo capped. This thing is gonna be special for graphic whores.

It’s quite literally The Northman in game form.

I cannot wait for this shit
I don't like the whole mocapped thing, it means that you are not gonna see unscripted/dynamic/physics based moments, it looks fake compared to tlou2, like a coreographed dance instead of a brutal fight.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't like the whole mocapped thing, it means that you are not gonna see unscripted/dynamic/physics based moments, it looks fake compared to tlou2, like a coreographed dance instead of a brutal fight.
i remember going from TLOU2 to Ghost of Tsushima in a span of a couple of weeks and I was like wtf is this janky mess. but i got used to it after a few hours and even learned to love the flashy and yes, i concede, gamey animations.

HB2 looks fine for now. Its flashy and focuses on takedowns so most of those animations will be high quality. I do think that by the end of the gen, other studios will have some extremely impressive unscripted animations that will make HB2 feel dated. Someone posted that awesome look UE5 animations with that thick girl and i think thats what ND is working on. Maybe rockstar too, who knows. RDR2 still has some of the best mocap animations. especially the melee takedowns.

i want to see fighting studios to have those dynamic physics based movements. it will probably be impossible to make a traditional fighting game with that but right now they feel dated no matter how much they improve the background detail and character rendering. I play SF6 with my son every now and then, and it feels like a PS3 era game still despite some stunning visuals. the mortal kombat weekend on steam felt so dated i deleted it after just three fights. same janky ps2 era animations.
 

JCreasy

Member
A couple more Horizon Forbidden Screenshots on PC in 4K Ultrawide with DLSS Quality

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AiUdnSi.jpeg

0iodrGO.jpeg

jTAJ78a.jpeg

ZPRRaij.jpeg

H1gelL5.jpeg
Love the faces in this game. Also, I now recognize that the ML rigs 3Lateral developed for 1946 (and presumably Hellblade 2) are superior in the amount of animation/motion capture they’re able to provide. It’s the leap in facial animations that sets apart what we’re seeing in 1946.
 

GymWolf

Member
i remember going from TLOU2 to Ghost of Tsushima in a span of a couple of weeks and I was like wtf is this janky mess. but i got used to it after a few hours and even learned to love the flashy and yes, i concede, gamey animations.

HB2 looks fine for now. Its flashy and focuses on takedowns so most of those animations will be high quality. I do think that by the end of the gen, other studios will have some extremely impressive unscripted animations that will make HB2 feel dated. Someone posted that awesome look UE5 animations with that thick girl and i think thats what ND is working on. Maybe rockstar too, who knows. RDR2 still has some of the best mocap animations. especially the melee takedowns.

i want to see fighting studios to have those dynamic physics based movements. it will probably be impossible to make a traditional fighting game with that but right now they feel dated no matter how much they improve the background detail and character rendering. I play SF6 with my son every now and then, and it feels like a PS3 era game still despite some stunning visuals. the mortal kombat weekend on steam felt so dated i deleted it after just three fights. same janky ps2 era animations.
Fighting games are never gonna do that because you rely on predictability.

It's the same reason why physics based platform with the sackboy was nowhere the level of proper platforms in terms of precise gameplay, for some games, unpredictability and physics based movements are counter-productive.
 
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That's why i said that they are gonna make something that a base ps5 can sustain and just add bells and whistles in the pro version, raytraced reflections and shadows are exactly that, not something as transformative as a complete new light system.
Would a path tracing solution be possible on the Pro though? Using smaller samples to minimise demand on the GPU?
 
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