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[GymWolf]

I like they style of it and one like how it looks even if it were a ps5 exclusive.

Sure, but you can like the style even with much better graphic and if the game was a ps5 excousive remaster the majority of people would call sony lazy AF, you know it, i know it.

 

[alloush]

I think Jedi Survivor not significantly improving its animation is inexcusable. That was the biggest weak point with the first game. Talk about phoning it in.

This article seems like damage control. Poor damage control at that. I never would've expected Jedi Survivor to be this small an improvement over the first, coming from such a capable and seemingly passionate studio. Weird times we're experiencing in gaming I tell ya.

But then again i checked out the comment section of the IGN flgameplay reveal video and low and behold most people were there praising its visuals, with the occasional complaint about animation.

This is the thing. Gamers have the lowest standards right now.

I also wanted to touch base on the bolded part. The other day I posted a video of a game that looked decent but nothing more than that, and boy you shoulda seen the comment section where I swear you would think the game looked better than The Matrix demo. I also alluded to the same point you did, it is the gamers' hella low standards that are making sure we are getting games with subpar graphics, it is astonishing really. If I were a dev and I see people on social media, mainly YouTube, praising my subpar work then why would I feel the need to put in more work, devote more resources, and spend more money to improve things when people are eating anything I publish up?

 

[GymWolf]

exactly, look at all those beautiful UE5 demos with janky [souls-like] animations. completely immersion-breaking despite looking phenomenal at times.
one might argue that From games do not strive for realism and are heavily stylised but that still does not excuse the jank.
similar stylised games have managed to achieve the same level of success without having horrendous framerate issues and terrible, repetitive animations that ruin responsiveness [the case with all From's games]
Ghost of Tsushima has smooth animations while being more responsive than ER at 30fps, as well as having 10 times as much visual fidelity

as for the trailer, yes it IS CGI but that kind of astonishing quality of the main character's animations back then was, and I believe, still is unrivaled for a CGI game trailer.

I hate Tsushima for using terrible precanned death animation that get boring after 20 times you see them in a game where you kill thousands of mofos.

I can assure you that killing mofos with the same 10 animations for 30 hours or seeing enemies that glue on the terrain (even when half of their body is out of a cliff) because sucker punch hate to use ragdoll or seeing jin slashing the enemies with zero reaction because the precanned death animation already started was baffling to watch.

 

[H . R . 2]

I hate Tsushima for using terrible precanned death animation that get boring after 20 times you see them in a game where you kill thousands of mofos.

I can assure you that killing mofos with the same 10 animations for 30 hours or seeing enemies that glue on the terrain (even when half of their body is out of a cliff) because sucker punch hate to use ragdoll or seeing jin slashing the enemies with zero reaction because the precanned death animation already started was baffling to watch.

I understand your point. you're right
I personally loved what they did with the animations in GoT but I'd rather my animations be fluid and smooth if only repetitive than just being repetitive across all my games
but ragdoll is difficult to get right. if my memory serves me, only ND's TLOU2 and R*'s Max Payne 3 have managed to implement it well. are there better examples?

 

[alloush]

I hate Tsushima for using terrible precanned death animation that get boring after 20 times you see them in a game where you kill thousands of mofos.

I can assure you that killing mofos with the same 10 animations for 30 hours or seeing enemies that glue on the terrain (even when half of their body is out of a cliff) because sucker punch hate to use ragdoll or seeing jin slashing the enemies with zero reaction because the precanned death animation already started was baffling to watch.

Ahh, I missed GymWolf’s awesome vocabulary when posting

I am starting GoT soon don’t ruin it for me Gym

 

[GymWolf]

I understand your point. you're right
I personally loved what they did with the animations in GoT but I'd rather my animations be fluid and smooth if only repetitive than just being repetitive across all my games
but ragdoll is difficult to get right. if my memory serves me, only ND's TLOU2 and R*'s Max Payne 3 have managed to implement it well. are there better examples?

Many games have good ragdoll, the one you listed are just the cream of the crop, but i take non-perfect ragdoll over precanned death animations and enemies that glue on the ground every day of the week.

Matter of taste i guess, i don't give a damn about old samurai movies with overly dramatic death scenes so maybe this is why i hated the animations in tsushima.

The gore was pedestrian aswell.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

People under this tweet are saying this is fake but it isn’t it’s just the caption is misleading:



Here is the full video for context:



As he mentioned, this is how the metaverse should look like in the future if the big corps actually put in the work for it. And this is what I believe graphics will look like maybe in a decade or so.

Only the portion of the video with the Unreal logo is actually realtime rendered. The first part where he crosses the street is real footage (you can even see the dude filming in the window reflection), he then transitions to a wall that has been ‘scanned’ by photogrammetry.

Which could be done in UE4 as well with the same result, because lighting and color info is baked into that mesh’s textures.

 

[GymWolf]

Ahh, I missed GymWolf’s awesome vocabulary when posting

I am starting GoT soon don’t ruin it for me Gym

Fuck me, what grammatical horrors did i made?

 

[alloush]

Only the portion of the video with the Unreal logo is actually realtime rendered. The first part where he crosses the street is real footage (you can even see the dude filming in the window reflection), he then transitions to a wall that has been ‘scanned’ by photogrammetry.

Which could be done in UE4 as well with the same result, because lighting and color info is baked into that mesh’s textures.

Oh I know, I saw his reflection too. I was just speculating on when can we expect this level of graphical fidelity in games. Not before PS6 I reckon.

Fuck me, what grammatical horrors did i made?

Ha, no grammatical errors I just love your choice of words, they are so expressive

 

[GymWolf]

Oh I know, I saw his reflection too. I was just speculating on when can we expect this level of graphical fidelity in games. Not before PS6 I reckon.


Ha, no grammatical errors I just love your choice of words, they are so expressive

I'm not an illiterate wordsmith for nothing.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Interactive animation is scraping the limits of technology and manpower at all times. It might seem like such a basic and simple thing to you but nobody is saying 'well this game got away with it so let's not bother trying'

Rdr2 tried to lean into seamless, realistic animations and people still don't shut up about how unresponsive it was. There is no holy grail. The better animations get, the worse the game feels to control - that's a fact. You see someone in real life move and then realize why they're doing it. In a game you have to decide to do it, press the button, then start the process of watching the character respond to that decision in a way that looks human but also makes you feel like you aren't waiting a full second to see the button press play out. The better the animation the more 'input lag'.
too many people called the animation in rdr2 bad. I don't believe most people know what they want, or at least the knock on effects of what they call for.
And your example is prerendered, you might as well share a pixar movie. It's got nothing to do with games.

But some of us appreciate those kinds of animations. I also highly appreciated The Last Guardians animations while a lot of people were saying the game was unresponsive. The walking had so much weight and character to it. Sure, some people don't know what they want, but I do when it comes to animations.

I think Nintendo is some of the best with having high quality animations while still giving the player a lot of control. Same with the newly released Hi-Fi Rush.

 

[OCASM]

Not to mention PS2 quality animations.....

It's good to see devs use it for gameplay but i dont know why an AAA studio has to completely phone in graphics in order to do that.

PS2 era animations were much more fluid than this.

 

[SlimySnake]

But some of us appreciate those kinds of animations. I also highly appreciated The Last Guardians animations while a lot of people were saying the game was unresponsive. The walking had so much weight and character to it. Sure, some people don't know what they want, but I do when it comes to animations.

I think Nintendo is some of the best with having high quality animations while still giving the player a lot of control. Same with the newly released Hi-Fi Rush.

I hated the animations in TLG due to the unresponsiveness until midway through the game when they started throwing crazy setpieces at you one after another. Some of the best animation work ive ever seen on a scale still not seen to this day. Those trico vs trico fights in realtime were insane considering this is practically a PS3 cross gen game. Beautifully animated.

I also have a soft spot for RDR2's animations. It's my GOTG last gen despite how much i struggled with the controls but just like 30 fps, you eventually get used to the input lag. I made the same exception for KZ2 back in the day. Sometimes animations enhance the overall experience just as much as more responsive controls.

 

[TheRedRiders]

https://insider-gaming.com/metro-exodus-sequel/

I’d put money on this being a next-gen visual showcase considering how impressive Exodus was.

If the leak is true we’re very likely going to be seeing gameplay at some point this year. I cannot wait!

 

[Piggoro]

https://insider-gaming.com/metro-exodus-sequel/

I’d put money on this being a next-gen visual showcase considering how impressive Exodus was.

If the leak is true we’re very likely going to be seeing gameplay at some point this year. I cannot wait!

The Exodus is my "go home" nostalgia game when I'm longing for my motherland that I left 10 years ago. SO good looking and authentic (despite being kinda janky in general)!

 

[OCASM]

This thread needs more volumetrics:

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

You're full of shit.

It is literally the best looking game out on PS5. What exactly about that footage was not Next-Gen?

Well Doom Eternal looks perfectly fine and on par with those games but sure while having a lot more on screen action but sure.

Tbh Doom Eternal isn’t on par, but it’s a great looking game…I’m still impressed by TLOU II every time I see it…RDR2 was a technical marvel also…

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

To this day …TLOU II never ceases to amaze me…its the whole package…textures, motion matching, character models, PBR, density, detail, face animation looks perfect, characters emote just like real life humans

 

[ProtoByte]

This article seems like damage control. Poor damage control at that. I never would've expected Jedi Survivor to be this small an improvement over the first, coming from such a capable and seemingly passionate studio. Weird times we're experiencing in gaming I tell ya.

Realistically though, I don't think we should be surprised. It's not like Fallen Order was a showpiece of any kind when it came out. Polish, performance and visuals were all mediocre at the time, and the game itself wasn't much better.

The pool of studios capable of meeting certain standards is only going to shrink, and Respawn was never in that tier anyway.

I'm waiting to see new gameplay footage of KH4, FF7 Rebirth, GTA6 and Wonder Woman. They're the only projects I can think of outside of 3 or 4 PlayStation first parties that have any hope of coming out in the next 3 years and of hitting the levels we're talking about here.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I don't need the ultimate graphics. Look at Metroid Prime Remastered. It's not highend but looks beautiful. As long as the Devs care for their games i'm happy.

This is a Graphic Fidelity topic. Good for you, but this thread isn’t for you…

 

[arkhamguy123]

To this day …TLOU II never ceases to amaze me…its the whole package…textures, motion matching, character models, PBR, density, detail, face animation looks perfect, characters emote just like real life humans

Great looking game buuuut looks a little washed out sometimes including that cutscene you put up, got a fat downgrade from e3, and has that hideous ugly film grain mudding up the visuals further.

You take out the film grain, bump it up to 1440p, restore the E3 NPC animations then its pretty god tier.

 

[amigastar]

This is a Graphic Fidelity topic. Good for you, but this thread isn’t for you…

Don't be so cocky, dude

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The Exodus is my "go home" nostalgia game when I'm longing for my motherland that I left 10 years ago. SO good looking and authentic (despite being kinda janky in general)!

If only it wasn't so janky (on controller). It is still the only real taste I've gotten of what rt gi can do for lighting. I don't count this Witcher 3 "next gen patch" because they toned it down after recent patch and the update has been a disaster.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Great looking game buuuut looks a little washed out sometimes including that cutscene you put up, got a fat downgrade from e3, and has that hideous ugly film grain mudding up the visuals further.

You take out the film grain, bump it up to 1440p, restore the E3 NPC animations then its pretty god tier.

Why hasnt Sony/ND patched this properly for Ps5? This game would benefit so much from a higher resolution as well as Dual Sense support it's not even funny!

Yeah...the combination of animation quality combined with playability is truly amazing in this game. Don't agree about it ever looking washed out. It is compared to LoU1 remake but I think that's because the contrast is too strong and the gamma curve is slightly 'off' in the Remake. On an Oled c8, I have to put contrast to -2 in order to not have such a dark picture. In Lou2 I don't have to mess with HDR/brightness settings.

 

[OCASM]

Tbh Doom Eternal isn’t on par, but it’s a great looking game…I’m still impressed by TLOU II every time I see it…RDR2 was a technical marvel also…

RDR2 and Doom Eternal >>>>>>>>>> TLoU2.

TLoU2 isn't even ND's best looking PS4 game. Doesn't even have SSAO

 

[CamHostage]

Don't be so cocky, dude

He's not trying to be a dick, he's trying to help you.

This thread can be an absolute mess, but its point is to talk about the state of videogame graphics and next-current-generation graphics techniques for what we're hoping to see in future games.

I get it, graphics isn't everything when shopping for a new game, and sure, there are art techniques and skills at play which may go beyond the concept of "graphical fidelity". It's just, it does no good to come into a 69-page thread about graphics to say, "Who cares about graphics? Just have fun!" People here care about graphics. Fun too, but this thread is them talking about graphics (and to a point technical complexity in architecture and animation and other advancements in game tech.)

So, engage or don't engage, but try not to say the whole conversation is pointless (albeit maybe it is by now...) because you don't care about what people here want to talk about.

 

[shiru]

Tbh Doom Eternal isn’t on par, but it’s a great looking game…I’m still impressed by TLOU II every time I see it…RDR2 was a technical marvel also…

It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison since these games aim for different scope and styles that would impact visual output beyond framerate differences, but I think Doom is easily one of the best looking games from last gen and manages an impressive scale and detail, and a level of action that's beyond the other two games in moment to moment gameplay.



anyone who claims this isn't technically impressive or that it looks like a 360 game is simply a moron, regardless of subjective "personal standards".

 

[alloush]

For those of you who are interested in photogrammetry and this kinda stuff:

 

[alloush]

 

[OZ9000]

It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison since these games aim for different scope and styles that would impact visual output beyond framerate differences, but I think Doom is easily one of the best looking games from last gen and manages an impressive scale and detail, and a level of action that's beyond the other two games in moment to moment gameplay.



anyone who claims this isn't technically impressive or that it looks like a 360 game is simply a moron, regardless of subjective "personal standards".

Doom Eternal looks much better when playing 4K HDR.

 

[H . R . 2]

so...Suicide Squad: KTJL trailer ...was..., loud and childish
.... and looked underwhelming and too colourful [for my taste]
but more importantly...
how can a 2023 game not look, at least, as good as its 2015 predecessor?
the fact that this game's cutscene graphics do not even match AK's gameplay visuals is reason enough to add this game to the ever-growing list of 'next'-gen' disappointments
below are my own ""PS4"" screengrabs !!!
[notice the quality of the shaders, lighting, gemotry, characters, shadows, reflections, bloom, and AO]

 

[arkhamguy123]

so...Suicide Squad: KTJL trailer ...was..., loud and childish
.... and looked underwhelming and too colourful [for my taste]
but more importantly...
how can a 2023 game not look, at least, as good as its 2015 predecessor?
the fact that this game's cutscene graphics do not even match AK's gameplay visuals is reason enough to add this game to the ever-growing list of 'next'-gen' disappointments
below are my own ""PS4"" screengrabs !!!
[notice the quality of the shaders, lighting, gemotry, characters, shadows, reflections, bloom, and AO]

Genuinely, what in the fucking fuck happened to rocksteady? Have we ever seen a bigger golden boy fall from grace?

I was aware they lost story guys and gameplay guys from Glassdoor. Some big names too. But it seems like a lot of their technical crew moved on as well.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Now I'm doing the Thanos "perhaps I treated you too harshly" meme to the dead space remake after this and Star Wars.

 

[rofif]

Forspoken is PS3.5 at best. Ive seen PS4 games that look better so by definition it is sub PS4.

One of the fugliest games ive ever seen. FFXV looks better.

I am here

 

[SlimySnake]

I am here

Yeah those look ps3.5 if you consider rdr2, horizon and witcher 3 ps4 games.

Those screenshots look absolutely horrendous by last gen standards.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I love Arkham Knight as much as the next person so don’t get me wrong but saying “how can new game X that’s just been shown running on a console at 60fps not match a 2015 game visually” then showing AK running at native 4k with everything maxed to the point you’d need an RTX 3080 to get it running at 60fps is a bit disingenuous imo.

Arkham Knight runs at 1080p/30fps on PS4 and 900p/30fps on XBO and at nowhere near max PC settings and that’s before the Nvidia exclusive effects and whatever art mods / camera mods some people are using to post pictures of it up against SS here.

You’re also kind of proving others points for them by posting how great a game from 2015 looks because it’s down to art direction and not hardware power. AK combines great artists with a rainy night setting and neon lights. It was a perfect storm of IP, art and technology.

And when you remove the image quality / framerate shackles of PS4/XBO it looks downright stunning today on high end PC hardware.

Maybe after SS bombs they’ll do a console Remaster of AK

 

[rofif]

Yeah those look ps3.5 you consider rdr2, horizon and witcher 3 ps4 games.

Those screenshots look absolutely horrendous by last gen standards.

Maybe screenshots don’t convey it but I was very impressed with the game. The up close geometric detail is good too. But the landscapes steal the show.
It’s blue ps3,5. Don’t be crazy.

 

[ChiefDada]

I am here

Lol I love your conviction, and I understand. TLOU Pt. 1 is my Forspoken around here.

 

[SlimySnake]

I love Arkham Knight as much as the next person so don’t get me wrong but saying “how can new game X that’s just been shown running on a console at 60fps not match a 2015 game visually” then showing AK running at native 4k with everything maxed to the point you’d need an RTX 3080 to get it running at 60fps is a bit disingenuous imo.

Arkham Knight runs at 1080p/30fps on PS4 and 900p/30fps on XBO and at nowhere near max PC settings and that’s before the Nvidia exclusive effects and whatever art mods / camera mods some people are using to post pictures of it up against SS here.

You’re also kind of proving others points for them by posting how great a game from 2015 looks because it’s down to art direction and not hardware power. AK combines great artists with a rainy night setting and neon lights. It was a perfect storm of IP, art and technology.

And when you remove the image quality / framerate shackles of PS4/XBO it looks downright stunning today on high end PC hardware.

Maybe after SS bombs they’ll do a console Remaster of AK

I played AK on my PS4 at 1080p on a 4k tv and it looked like dogshit. almost as bad as Driveclub on a 4k screen. And ive also recently played it at 4k 90 fps at PC max settings. The nvidia effects are mostly smoke effects which you dont see in those screenshots, enhanced physics which you dont see and enhanced rain which was actually worse than the PS4 version. The game looks fantastic because of what you accurately described as great art direction. Gotham Knights actually does a lot of things better than AK but its hard to see because the art direction is comparatively uninspired. And yes, part of the reason why SS looks so atrocious is because of their awful art direction.

But I disagree that it ALL boils down to art direction and not hardware power. The main reason is always hardware limitations. it's why breath of the wild looks like shit compared to its original reveal and their Wii U tech demo. it's why Matrix looks a generation ahead of all these faux next gen only games like TLOU remake, Suicide Squad, Forspoken, Gotham Knights, Dead Space, and Star Wars Survivor. It's actually using the hardware to push fidelity these games are not bothering to.

And I bet A LOT of it has to do with the coop elements. GG admitted to cutting coop from Horizon because it impacted their vision of a grand visual showcase. Gotham knights devs also pointed to 30 fps cap on next gen consoles due to them having to support 2 players. SS looks worse than AK because not only does it have to support coop but it started as a last gen game way back in summer of 2015. they didnt even have next gen specs back then or they wouldve improved their visuals at least.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

As per usual Naughty Dog is the one studio I'm waiting for to show me what a true next gen console game will look like.

So far its been very underwhelming and I've still got no reason to go out and buy a PS5. Yeah I know Ratchet and Horizin FW is there but my standards are very high.

 

[Hugare]

This adds Respawn to the list of AAA top tier studios who have phoned in the visuals this gen despite being afforded a free leash with a next gen only release.

Other studios:
Turn10 - Forza 8
ND - TLOU Remake
EA Motive - Dead Space Remake
Arkane - Deadloop and Redfall
Luminous Studios - Forspoken

Has all the talent left the industry to go work at VFX studios for hollywood? I cant blame this on Publishers. They are giving these devs next gen only releases, 4-7 years to make these games, and clearly the budget is still there. So just WTF is going on?

Turns out that even with a Ferrari, a bad pilot is a bad pilot.

Thats why few games (if any) in UE 4 looks as good as Arkham Knight does on UE 3. And I'm including Suicide Squad from Rocksteady.

Also why Dead Space looks inferior to Callisto Protocol, despite being current gen only.

Maybe better tools make artists lazy? Arkham Knight looks amazing because Rocksteady customized the engine to hell and back. Striking Distance also built their own solutions for Callisto.

PS: Theres a rumour that ND didnt develop Part I, a small studio inside Sony did. They only finished the job because the other studio wasnt capable of doing so, but many assets/models were already done when they came in.
I believe this theory 'cause even tho the game looks great, it doesnt have nowhere near the same level of polish as Part II.
There are tweets from Sony Bend animators, for example, saying how they worked on some cutscenes.

 

[CGNoire]

Don't be so cocky, dude

It was an appropriate response to someone who is thread whining.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

RDR2 and Doom Eternal >>>>>>>>>> TLoU2.

TLoU2 isn't even ND's best looking PS4 game. Doesn't even have SSAO

Doesn't have ambient occlusion? What?

 

[CGNoire]

so...Suicide Squad: KTJL trailer ...was..., loud and childish
.... and looked underwhelming and too colourful [for my taste]
but more importantly...
how can a 2023 game not look, at least, as good as its 2015 predecessor?
the fact that this game's cutscene graphics do not even match AK's gameplay visuals is reason enough to add this game to the ever-growing list of 'next'-gen' disappointments
below are my own ""PS4"" screengrabs !!!
[notice the quality of the shaders, lighting, gemotry, characters, shadows, reflections, bloom, and AO]

This Shit looks straight Embarrising.

 

[CGNoire]

I am here

I dont this communicates what you think it does.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

It was an appropriate response to someone who is thread whining.

Exactly. What did you expect dude

 

[CGNoire]

I love Arkham Knight as much as the next person so don’t get me wrong but saying “how can new game X that’s just been shown running on a console at 60fps not match a 2015 game visually” then showing AK running at native 4k with everything maxed to the point you’d need an RTX 3080 to get it running at 60fps is a bit disingenuous imo.

Arkham Knight runs at 1080p/30fps on PS4 and 900p/30fps on XBO and at nowhere near max PC settings and that’s before the Nvidia exclusive effects and whatever art mods / camera mods some people are using to post pictures of it up against SS here.

You’re also kind of proving others points for them by posting how great a game from 2015 looks because it’s down to art direction and not hardware power. AK combines great artists with a rainy night setting and neon lights. It was a perfect storm of IP, art and technology.

And when you remove the image quality / framerate shackles of PS4/XBO it looks downright stunning today on high end PC hardware.

Maybe after SS bombs they’ll do a console Remaster of AK

There was nothing in the screenshots posted that looks any different than the PS4 ver. The fact that you already assume its been modded further proves the posters point.

 

[Represent.]

RDR2 and Doom Eternal >>>>>>>>>> TLoU2.

Nah

TLoU2 isn't even ND's best looking PS4 game.

I beg your pardon, what? :|

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I dont this communicates what you think it does.

Forspoken is a pretty game. The lighting, foliage, and vistas in the open world is really nice. There's a nice draw distance. Particle effects are top notch.

The problem is it doesn't look anywhere close to as good as what initially presented to us. It's that simple really. Shouldn't be a surprise why so many people are down on its visuals. Then there are the many little visual inaccuracies that DF pointed out, the fact that RT does absolutely nothing, and the somewhat disappointing performance. The character model herself in gameplay is also disappointing. Low detail on her face compared to trailers. When are games going to start having better I'm game models anyway?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

There was nothing in the screenshots posted that looks any different than the PS4 ver. The fact that you already assume its been modded further proves the posters point.

If it was running on Ultra settings on a PC from 2015-2017 we're talking about what, a 1080t - 2080? Doesn't it make sense that their next game, after 7 years plus a newer engine on, at minimum an rtx 2070 or higher (doubt this footage was even on ps5) should be blowing Arkham Knight out of the water?