Support NeoGAF

[viveks86]

Vick and Bojji measuring their dicks, thats what happened papi

If the length of the posts are any indication, the women must be happy

 

[geary]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an ND jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

 

[Represent.]

Let's leave the past, and focus on the future which of those titles are you excited about or want to see on the upcoming June showcases :-
-Gears E Day's
-Intergalactic
-Faye God of war
-Fable
-Exdous
-Harry Potter 2
-Uncharted 5
-Blood message
-Virtua Fighter VI
-Tes VI
-Wolverine
-OD
-The physint
-Resonanse
-The Witcher 4
-Cyperpunk 2 on UE6
-Black myth zhong kai
-Ill
-Others

GTA 6 is obviously everyone first choice so I take it out from list

Dont forget Phantom Blade Zero

I honestly think Black Myth: Zhong Kui will look the best from that list

Its going to absolutely crush it in the Art design department, and the technical side. The budget probably got quadroupled from what Wukong was, and look what they did with that.

 

[viveks86]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an NG jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

If a 10 year old game is still acting as a minimum benchmark for current gen to beat, I don't see why it shouldn't be entertained.

Personally, I think comparing baked lighting versus realtime is not a fair fight. It's like comparing pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D environments back in the day. But everything else, like effects, animation, asset quality, physics, textures etc. seems fair play…

 

[Vick]

And of course we have to derail another page..

So we don't really know? Got it.

Well you didn't have any problem stating:

not Naughty Dog with unlimited budget

Entirely out of your ass.

These are the estimate, Uncharted 4 go from 50 to 90-100 million. Much less than First Light 200 million.

This is all we have. Not really sure what else could we add.

Ok, story/gameplay was rebooted (that explain a lot honestly) but do you really think they threw away all the assets, all the modeled NPCs, all the textures etc? Let's be realistic…
Show me anything that proves that the whole engine was upgraded and finalized in 2 years and that everything was produced during this timeframe. That includes texture work, NPCs, skybox etc etc... everything that's part of the visual presentation.

If you actually bothered to watch the video I posted.. you would realize that yes, that's exactly what happened.



The one Hennig was making, in very early stages, is a completely different looking game. There's footage from it across the entire video.
You can't see a single shared asset, model, texture or location from that version. The most complete level is a jungle one, and even foliage assets aren't the same.

And I don't need to post anything. You said Uncharted 4 took 5 years to make, I showed to you it was only made in 2, which has been known information for years.
You're free to check on ArtStation the date texture artists report on their work on Uncharted 4, that again looks absolutely nothing like the scrapped version.

One of the reasons it was started from scratch is precisely because the new leads thought the game looked (and played) like ass.

When you cause a lead like Hennig to leave the studio because you called what she was making "shit", while working on an entry of a series she created, you don't use stuff she was making.

If you can find a proof that all of that was made in 2 years, then fair.

There is, the video I posted.

And ArtStation artists pages.

Certainly, but you haven't addressed it.

Why would I adress factual statements in your post when I'm only correcting or adding context?

You're ignoring every bit of context because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm the one ignoring context? Narrative?

Are you drunk or just fucking weird?

This is what you posted:

yet it's still IOI, not Naughty Dog with unlimited budget and a single platform to focus on.

And I simply added context to your post:

007 First Light costed twice as much as Uncharted 4 to make.

And 5-6 years of development versus 2.

I didn't need to adress anything else. But no, you couldn't just say "Oh well, I didn't know, nice."
No, you had to contradict me by saying Uncharted 4 took 5 years.

Uncharted 4 took 5 years. At least that's what I'm finding, so pretty much the same as Bond. And you are also purposely ignoring the fact that Uncharted had to be developed for 1 console only.

And adding nonsense about me "purposely ignoring" that Uncharted had been developed for 1 console only.

Also please it's still very annoying to navigate this thread, you need to put more images/gif under spoiler.

Tell that to Bojji that's still posting 20 pictures per post. I am not.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Let's leave the past, and focus on the future which of those titles are you excited about or want to see on the upcoming June showcases :-
-Gears E Day's
-Intergalactic
-Faye God of war
-Fable
-Exdous
-Harry Potter 2
-Uncharted 5
-Blood message
-Virtua Fighter VI
-Tes VI
-Wolverine
-OD
-The physint
-Resonanse
-The Witcher 4
-Cyperpunk 2 on UE6
-Black myth zhong kai
-Ill
-Others

GTA 6 is obviously everyone first choice so I take it out from list

Would be lovely to see some Black Myth: Zhong Kui, Witcher/Cyberpunk, next Tomb Raider and most of all Blood Message, the reveal trailer was bonkers, but doubt we will see that one any time soon. I think theres a really good chance of a Hogwarts 2 reveal soon.

 

[intbal]

Clockwork Revolution has been in production a long time, and it had a fairly lengthy trailer showed a year ago. I would expect some kind of near-final trailer for that game.
Also, Blade has been in production for two years now. It's time for some in-game material to be shown.

 

[reezoo]

Some much older stuff from the main game, although with all this recent Uncharted 4 talk I'm about to start another playthrough soon (would like to capture more of Chapter 20 as basically everything in that Chapter looks bordeline pre-rendered):

Spoiler: Few more GIFs

Spoiler: More Gameplay Screenshots

Same thing applies.. you can find spots, that usually gets posted to diminish the game, they couldn't perfectly refine where old gen lighting can't do the heavy lifting for them, as it happens with automated modern solutions.
But you could also find some abysmal looking stuff in Bond even in terms of lighting, not to mention the atrocious assets shared of Series X Quality mode and PS5 Pro in the other Thread.

You can also find bad looking assets in Uncharted, especially in terms of geometry, (not sure as bad as First Light's worst), but those were compromises necessary to make all the tech and systems ND tried to achieve in place at native 1080p, with the at the time revolutionary and never before seen on console TAA solution, at stable 30fps on a base PS4.

man really craving for new uncharted game, f**k you Sony for your GAAS BS.

 

[Gonzito]

man really craving for new uncharted game, f**k you Sony for your GAAS BS.

Same here, Sony has been retarded this whole generation. There is no excuse for making so many mistakes

 

[KyoZz]

And of course we have to derail another page..

Thanks to who?

Well you didn't have any problem stating:

Entirely out of your ass.

These are the estimate, Uncharted 4 go from 50 to 90-100 million. Much less than First Light 200 million.

This is all we have. Not really sure what else could we add.

Sure it's less than Bond. Victory for you I guess, congrats (more on that later tho )

If you actually bothered to watch the video I posted.. you would realize that yes, that's exactly what happened.



The one Hennig was making, in very early stages, is a completely different looking game. There's footage from it across the entire video.
You can't see a single shared asset, model, texture or location from that version. The most complete level is a jungle one, and even foliage assets aren't the same.

This tell me you don't know how development works. Mixing pre-alpha footage with final results and proper shading/textures applied...

And I don't need to post anything. You said Uncharted 4 took 5 years to make, I showed to you it was only made in 2, which has been known information for years.
You're free to check on ArtStation the date texture artists report on their work on Uncharted 4, that again looks absolutely nothing like the scrapped version.

One of the reasons it was started from scratch is precisely because the new leads thought the game looked (and played) like ass.

When you cause a lead like Hennig to leave the studio because you called what she was making "shit", while working on an entry of a series she created, you don't use stuff she was making.

There is, the video I posted.

So you are saying that they took 3 years to reach the greybox stage of development, then suddenly took only 2 years to build an entire game from scratch. Again you don't discard everything when you reboot, you keep as much as you can and especially assets and textures. Uncharted 4 is not the first game getting rebooted mid dev.

What we know officially is that approximately 7 to 8 months of narrative work and motion capture were abandoned, according to Nolan North himself. When Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley took over the project, they rewrote the story, according to their own statements. Several characters were recast (not ALL), and some roles were completely changed.

However, there is no statement saying that all assets were deleted. In AAA development, this is actually quite rare. Generally game engines, tools, and systems are retained, many environmental textures, shaders and materials are reused. Generic NPC models can be recycled, secondary animations can be kept, sections of levels often serve as a basis even after a rewrite etc etc... this is why thinking that Uncharted 4 was made in 2 years is just non sense. So again, show me anything that say they discarded EVERYTHING.

You're the one making all these claims. And no, I'm not going to watch a 90 minute video just for you. Either you have a proper declaration to share or you don't.

And ArtStation artists pages.

Why would I adress factual statements in your post when I'm only correcting or adding context?

I'm the one ignoring context? Narrative?

Yes because you imply that developing a game for one console can be compared to what IOI did with 4 different versions. If you don't understand that this automatically imposes far more constraints on IO, I can't help you.

Are you drunk or just fucking weird?

Let's not get personal over a videogame please.

This is what you posted:

And I simply added context to your post:

The "unlimited budget" is just a figure of speech to point that ND had access to everything they needed, but whatever. I can tell you're not here to argue in good faith.

I didn't need to adress anything else. But no, you couldn't just say "Oh well, I didn't know, nice."
No, you had to contradict me by saying Uncharted 4 took 5 years.

And adding nonsense about me "purposely ignoring" that Uncharted had been developed for 1 console only.

Can we stop the victimization syndrome please, holy shit.

Tell that to Bojji that's still posting 20 pictures per post. I am not.

Bojji you are a mean person.

Happy now, Vick?

 

[SlimySnake]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an NG jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

wait what thread was this? i missed it. i only posted the DF video because the market and forest scenes looked so bland in terms of lighting it was hard not to notice the difference between u4 and other modern games.

If a 10 year old game is still acting as a minimum benchmark for current gen to beat, I don't see why it shouldn't be entertained.

comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

 

[Msamy]

Would be lovely to see some Black Myth: Zhong Kui, Witcher/Cyberpunk, next Tomb Raider and most of all Blood Message, the reveal trailer was bonkers, but doubt we will see that one any time soon. I think theres a really good chance of a Hogwarts 2 reveal soon.

Yes, blood message pretty much confirmed to be on sgf

 

[analog_future]

Yeah, Bond is inconsistent, but Uncharted 4 definitely is too. You can cherry pick literally any game to find bad lighting or textures or shadows or whatever.


With that said, Bond definitely has it moments. The Hotel sequence I just played through was frequently impressive. Some of my shots:

 

[Msamy]

Dont forget Phantom Blade Zero

I honestly think Black Myth: Zhong Kui will look the best from that list

Its going to absolutely crush it in the Art design department, and the technical side. The budget probably got quadroupled from what Wukong was, and look what they did with that.

Yes, pretty much agree with you considering it's clearly UE6 title

 

[Represent.]

Yes, pretty much agree with you considering it's clearly UE6 title

Shit didnt even know that, thought it was still UE5

 

[TheRedRiders]

My hunch is CDPR have ported Witcher 4 to Unreal Engine 6, i'm really curious to see what kind of feature set it has beyond just a bunch of ordinary graphics terms with the word "neural" attached to them.

 

[Critical Hit]

You're all comparing Bond to Uncharted a bit too soon, we should wait for the path tracing version.

 

[SlimySnake]

wow.

My hunch is CDPR have ported Witcher 4 to Unreal Engine 6, i'm really curious to see what kind of feature set it has beyond just a bunch of ordinary graphics terms with the word "neural" attached to them.

lol thats exactly what they are going to do. AI nanite, you know its coming.

i think cyberpunk 2 will be on ue6. its probably too late for a game 6 years in dev to switch engines.

 

[Msamy]

Shit didnt even know that, thought it was still UE5

They didn't confirm it yet but considering UE6 announced already and game still in very early stage they clearly will switch to it

 

[Represent.]

Yeah, Bond is inconsistent, but Uncharted 4 definitely is too. You can cherry pick literally any game to find bad lighting or textures or shadows or whatever.


With that said, Bond definitely has it moments. The Hotel sequence I just played through was frequently impressive. Some of my shots:

Yea this section looks really good. Fucking joke you cant remove the HUD though, completely kills immersion. Big dutty stupid giant meaningless HUD in bottom left, and that text on the top right doesnt go away either. IDK WTF they were thinking.

 

[SlimySnake]

Same here, Sony has been retarded this whole generation. There is no excuse for making so many mistakes

they are making an uncharted game at nd. the lost legacy director. neil said 200 or 250 devs were on intergallactic, 150 on another game. that one is uncharted.

 

[Msamy]

Multiplayer graphics here looks significantly better than any previous COD title

 

[viveks86]

comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

Well, you gotta admit that they trade blows from a layperson's perspective. Especially if they don't care about what's happening under the hood. For as many shots of weaknesses you or Bojji post, Vick can post one that looks better. It's going to come down to personal biases. I'm biased against baked lighting. But another may not give a shit and what they see happening on screen while playing is all that matters to them. In that case, whoever posts more cherry picked screenshots would "win" . Probably why this is turning into a battle of attrition.

May be once PT is in place, they stop trading blows and 007 would simply be better looking at all times. But then the battlegrounds will just move away from lighting to animation, effects, object density and asset quality. PT ain't changing that.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I'm excited for Stellar Blade 2 ass direction.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol the funny thing is that first light makes great use of physics in fist fights.

 

[Vick]

Looks like we have different Uncharted 4 version. My version represents PS4 graphics quality (it's a PS4 game), your version looks like a PS6 title.

And yet I posted around a hundred media, all during gameplay, in the last page from this PS4 game.. that you're now claiming looks like a PS6 game, while also saying the same piece of software is one unimpressive PS4 game at the same time.

All I said was that your nitpick screenshots, because that's what they are, don't represent what people think when they still talk about Uncharted 4 10 years later.

This was also posted by me along with the images:

The contemporary lighting system in Bond grants more consistency, as baking can't cover 100% of your game, in every instace.

You can also find bad looking assets in Uncharted, especially in terms of geometry, (not sure as bad as First Light's worst), but those were compromises necessary to make all the tech and systems ND tried to achieve in place at native 1080p, with the at the time revolutionary and never before seen on console TAA solution, at stable 30fps on a base PS4.

But that wasn't enough for you, was it?

You just had to show how triggered you were with that post.
Now even posting cropped, zoomed in screenshots?

Edit: Random UC4 pictures I took few years ago (PS5):

Doesn't really look on par with current gen games (I think).

I guess your current gen game doesn't look very current gen either:

In your own screenshots posted to make the game look good.. imagine what I could post from the game if I would attempt to do what you are doing with Uncharted 4.

And last, about the "random" screenshots bits.. the post you quoted was explaining that people take the overall package in consideration, how the game looks in motion, and all the good stuff impossible to convey in screenshots.. so when you post that boat screenshot, you're somehow ignoring the infinite amount of boderline pre-rendered looking stuff that could be posted from that very same Chapter, literal minutes away from the goddawful screenshot you posted..

That is what people remember and cheerish about the game when they say it looks better than First Light.

I don't really get what's so hard to understand.. and this is literally the most basic and lame stuff possible, just quickly found online. I can guarantee you you have no idea what I could post from this Chapter if I wanted to "make the game look good".

Thanks to who?

A few users butthurt about Uncharted 4 being considered better looking than 007 by 65% of GAF and DF (and you have no idea what's on Instagram and mainstream socials), apparently.

So you are saying that they took 3 years to reach the greybox stage of development, then suddenly took only 2 years to build an entire game from scratch. Again you don't discard everything when you reboot, you keep as much as you can and especially assets and textures. Uncharted 4 is not the first game getting rebooted mid dev.

What we know officially is that approximately 7 to 8 months of narrative work and motion capture were abandoned, according to Nolan North himself. When Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley took over the project, they rewrote the story, according to their own statements. Several characters were recast (not ALL), and some roles were completely changed.

However, there is no statement saying that all assets were deleted. In AAA development, this is actually quite rare. Generally game engines, tools, and systems are retained, many environmental textures, shaders and materials are reused. Generic NPC models can be recycled, secondary animations can be kept, sections of levels often serve as a basis even after a rewrite etc etc... this is why thinking that Uncharted 4 was made in 2 years is just non sense. So again, show me anything that say they discarded EVERYTHING.

You're the one making all these claims. And no, I'm not going to watch a 90 minute video just for you. Either you have a proper declaration to share or you don't.

Jesus Christ dude..

"So you're saying", "You're the one making these claims".. I am simply wasting my time informing you of what's considered common knowledge.
I have been following this game and it's development for ten years, I was there during the original Teaser, then the Druckmann Teaser, then the Corinne Yu (newly hired) post on socials media on the visual targets for the game.. I have watched, downloaded and posted on this Forum over the years every asset and texture ever shared on ArtStation, I have analyzed every pixel of this game (and I mean it):

Analysis  Thread 'Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games'

Feb 4, 2022

Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy.

However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves release, in conjunction with its improvements (which are many more Comparisons online were able to find).

So even if most of the time the game looks virtually identical/improved compared to its original Release, every kind of downgrade is featured here; from missing VFX, missing shadows...

• Vick
• Replies: 188
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

You until an hour ago didn't even fucking know there was a scrapped version, and you think you could lecture me on the subject in any way, shape or form?

There's an hour-long video showing every possible footage existing, one in vertical slice stage even. None of the assets match. Not a single plant, a single rock texture, a single NPC..

Could I swear they haven't took a single fern model, retextured and reused? No. Would that make any difference whatsoever concering a game starting development "from scratch" with new directors, new actors, new plot, entirely new locations and mechanics being developed from start to finish in two years?

NO.

These are the the GDC Uncharted 4 videos, they cover every step of the development of Uncharted 4, in order of release:

















I wonder why you only ever see the NEW Drake model and NEW Drake animations and none of the previous assets or models or locations even in complete pre-production footage, before pre-alpha..

Yes because you imply that developing a game for one console can be compared to what IOI did with 4 different versions. If you don't understand that this automatically imposes far more constraints on IO, I can't help you.

Yes, I can imagine making a modern multiplatform game with automated lighting solutions being a complete nightmare compared to the creation of a game relying entirely on careful baking of every single inch, of every location of the globe-trotting adventure while simultaneously developing proprietary tech while starting development from scratch amidst a studio restructuring. With half of the money and half of the time available.
And still delivering something that's considered better looking than the former, released 10 years after.

wait what thread was this? i missed it. i only posted the DF video because the market and forest scenes looked so bland in terms of lighting it was hard not to notice the difference between u4 and other modern games.


comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

Yes, most people and DF think this ↑ looks better than current gen First Light.

Not this:

Spoiler: CGI-Like GIFs

Spoiler: More Gameplay Screenshots

Always thought the only stuff that legitimately looked next gen compared to even Lost Legacy/Uncharted 4 peaks was the first Unreal Engine 5 reveal. Shame not many games lived up to it, on console.

Or the Uncharted 4 post I can't quote because.. limit of current gen looking images possible to share in a single post.

Or the literal infinite Gifs and screenshots that could be taken from the game looking current gen.. or PS6 looking, according to haters.

 

[Bojji]

And yet I posted around a hundred media, all during gameplay, in the last page from this PS4 game.. that you're now claiming looks like a PS6 game, while also saying the same piece of software is one unimpressive PS4 game at the same time.

It looks like a PS6 game to you, I don't see current gen quality on your screenshots (not to mention next gen). And tiny gifs can make Killzone 2 the best looking shooter ever made.

I have UC4 installed on PS5 Pro and Bond on PC, I don't need anyone else to show me screenshots and explain why game X looks better than game Y. Uncharted was a great looking game in PS4 gen and that remains true, Bond is a good looking game for this game, but current (non PT) version is not close to the best looking games. We have no other "Uncharted style" games so that's why these comparisons are being made.