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[epaturun]

Additionally, the light bar for the controller is always on. It replaces port numbers on the top of the DualShock 3, and can be seen by the new camera as an identifier.

The camera is all about enhancing the PS4 experience. It works in conjunction with the controller, says Norden.

these two quotes by norden from http://www.destructoid.com/ps4-controller-and-cameras-fully-detailed-at-gdc-249816.phtml

to me sounds like the Eye will be an essential part of PS4 and likely to be bundled and needs to be attached to the PS4

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So that devs can target it with full confidence that they're not slashing their potential pubilc to a tenth.

The risk then is that if it's not mandatory, a large percentage of people mightn't bother setting it up.

Seems if they are going to the trouble of implementing so many features around the camera, that they might as well make it mandatory.

 

[Baconsammy]

So the camera has its own port, possibly comes with the console but will be up to developers if they want to use it for their games?

I'm finding that a little hard to believe. Why bother shipping with the camera if it's not a mandatory accessory for the console?

Sarcasm? It would be suicidal to tell a dev they had to use the camera for anything other than system-integration. Ditto goes for Kinect.

many here will be plenty surprised when all said and done in December '13 that both systems function pretty much alike in features... (online connectivity, camera etc)

Will be interesting to watch the 720 criticisms die down as we see more and more features that were shouted down on 720, come to Ps4.

The goal posts will just move.

 

[RiverBed]

Offline charging; the magic of USB 3.0.
Finally! It's the little things that matter (along with the big things).

 

[Klocker]

agree if the PS4 eye connector is not USB will be bummed about having to have system near screen

many here will be plenty surprised when all said and done in December '13 that both systems function pretty much alike in features... (online connectivity, camera etc)

Will be interesting to watch the 720 criticisms die down as we see more and more features that were shouted down on 720, come to Ps4.

 

[dubq]

Didn't Miller Tweet that Sony stated this is stuff devs COULD do with the camera and that it is NOT mandatory? Is this just a moot point being argued right now?

 

[Dragon]

many here will be plenty surprised when all said and done in December '13 that both systems function pretty much alike in features... (online connectivity, camera etc)

MS hasn't said anything yet.

 

[kaching]

Seems if they are going to the trouble of implementing so many features around the camera, that they might as well make it mandatory.

They've gone to the trouble of implementing numerous features around the camera going on, what, a decade now? Hasn't stopped it from being optional all along.

 

[RiverBed]

The improved rumble mentioned at the reveal features 1 large motor and 1 small motor 'for cool effects'

How is this different than what we have now? Having different sizes is how you get rumble in the first place. Do they mean a bigger size difference for extra feedback spectrum?

 

[Hoo-doo]

Stats are completely meaningless to the millions who do actively enjoy and purchase motion control systems or devices.

It gives an idea what the average gamer thinks about motion gaming. Notice I said "gamer", not the soccer mom who bought a Wii for Wii-fit. It's a different demographic all together.

Now notice what kind of board you're on, a crowd probably more "hardcore" and invested in gaming than the average reader on IGN. It's not hard to see why you are finding most people to be decidedly against motion controls on here.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Sarcasm? It would be suicidal to tell a dev they had to use the camera for anything other than system-integration. Ditto goes for Kinect.



The goal posts will just move.

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[Ziek]

Additionally, the light bar for the controller is always on.

I hope this isn't distracting. As long as it doesn't blink like the 360 controller. That drives me nuts.

 

[DEADEVIL]

It gives an idea what the average gamer thinks about motion gaming. Notice I said "gamer", not the soccer mom who bought a Wii for Wii-fit. It's a different demographic all together.

Now notice what kind of board you're on, a crowd probably more "hardcore" and invested in gaming than the average reader on IGN. It's not hard to see why you are finding most people to be decidedly against motion controls on here.

So anyone who likes motion controls is a soccer mom. Fiction!

Yup. Like I said before miniscule in comparison. Who said it's hard to see 'why' people on a boards are against anything. Gamers are against actual games on message boards simply on the strength of their console bias, so who is supposedly suprised?

 

[epaturun]

my take is that The Eye will be needed for system use as stated by Norden but the devs won't have to build games with the Eye in mind (hence not mandatory) but they will still need to have use the Eye for OS purpose detecting controllers etc

 

[Dragon]

So anyone who likes motion controls is a soccer mom.

That's not what he said. Strawman arguments are no way to go through life.

 

[AranhaHunter]

It's clearly there. Watch the video again--any time he tries to move Knack there's a visible delay between when he does and when the guy moves. At times he tries to move multiple directions quickly in succession and it gets worse (i.e., pushing "down" and the guy is moving in the opposite direction, etc).

Hmmm, maybe I will look at it again, but if it lagged there then it stands to reason it will lag in your house as well and it'll be damn near unplayable over wi fi/4G. They demoed that under pretty optimal condition.

 

[Baconsammy]

It gives an idea what the average gamer thinks about motion gaming. Notice I said "gamer", not the soccer mom who bought a Wii for Wii-fit. It's a different demographic all together.

Now notice what kind of board you're on, a crowd probably more "hardcore" and invested in gaming than the average reader on IGN. It's not hard to see why you are finding most people to be decidedly against motion controls on here.

Yes, a board that said Wii and Kinect would die horrible deaths. We're not exactly the soothsayers we think we are. The masses move the needle, we don't.

I hope this isn't distracting. As long as it doesn't blink like the 360 controller. That drives me nuts.

8 years later and those dummies still didn't add an option to turn that damn thing off. I'd love to meet the guy that came up with the idea: "Hey, at 50 percent, let's start blinking the giant light in the middle of the controller. Not just once. We need to do it repeatedly. And we need for it to not be an option. It must always happen."

 

[epaturun]

I hope this isn't distracting. As long as it doesn't blink like the 360 controller. That drives me nuts.

it will be like the Move light and colours kinda subtle - they're not blinding like blue leds

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Sarcasm? It would be suicidal to tell a dev they had to use the camera for anything other than system-integration. Ditto goes for Kinect.

I was actually referring to makingit mandatory to use the console or making it mandatory to use select features. Some of the features mentioned sound great, seems odd to not make the camera mandatory when they've gone to so much trouble to offer these great features at an OS level.

They've gone to the trouble of implementing numerous features around the camera going on, what, a decade now? Hasn't stopped it from being optional all along.

To this extent? speech recognition? Login? Create walkthrough vids and taunting killcams (this was in BOP, but relatively pointless).

They've made incredible strides on the social side, it would such a shame and a waste to see them going unused because they chose not to make the camera mandatory.

 

[kingocfs]

Trying to get on that Kinect bandwagon.

 

[benny_a]

Ding Ding Ding!

I know you guys like to pat each other on the back a lot. But what exact goal post will be moved?

The complaint I've seen is that MS is catering less and less to the core gamer demographic.

This is evident if you compare the exclusive titles releasing this year on their current generation platform vs. the exclusive games releasing this year on the current generation platform of Sony or how they speak to the core demographic that watches and follows video game convention and press meetings.

If MS decides to change this approach, then being happy about that is not moving the goal post. It's being happy about a change in approach by them.

 

[statham]

we need a new bender.gif


the top of my tv is going to be crowded.

 

[Osiris]

I was actually referring to makingit mandatory to use the console or making it mandatory to use select features. Some of the features mentioned sound great, seems odd to not make the camera mandatory when they've gone to so much trouble to offer these great features at an OS level.

I don't think anybody really cares about mandatory use for system level features, the problem is mandatory game features requiring motion control, that's where the worry and fears lie, not system features.

 

[Baconsammy]

I know you guys like to pat each other on the back a lot. But what exact goal post will be moved?

The complaint I've seen is that MS is catering less and less to the core gamer demographic.

To the first part, lol. I don't think I've ever addressed him directly on this board or anywhere prior. Nice fantasy though. Secondly, it was in reference to the fact that including a Kinect automatically means that devs have to include it in their games. That's just nonsense. Including Kinect and Eye just means that everyone will get the same box and have access to the same features all the time. Splitting the base straight away is idiotic. Including the Eye means Sony is guaranteed that everyone will have access to these cool features they're showing off at GDC and there's no need to program around the fact that some people might not have one.

I don't think anybody really cares about mandatory use for system level features, the problem is mandatory game features requiring motion control, that's where the worry and fears lie, not system features.

Fear that all you want, but it's an irrational fear. Microsoft nor Sony are dumb enough to dictate to devs that they have to make their gamers gesticulate wildly to play their games.

 

[nib95]

I don't think anybody really cares about mandatory use for system level features, the problem is mandatory game features requiring motion control, that's where the worry and fears lie, not system features.

I just want to clarify that yes, you are correct, at least with respect to my own opinions. I don't mind system features being used by Kinect/Eye etc, but it's being forced to use motion controls in games I have an issue is. In an ideal world I want both the peripherals and the motion options to be optional, but I can see why Sony and Microsoft might include them in the box if they are pivotal for UI use. As long as they don't add much to the cost of the console, I won't mind.

 

[benny_a]

Secondly, it was in reference to the fact that including a Kinect automatically means that devs have to include it in their games. That's just nonsense. Including Kinect and Eye just means that everyone will get the same box and have access to the same features all the time. Splitting the base straight away is idiotic. Including the Eye means Sony is guaranteed that everyone will have access to these cool features they're showing off at GDC and there's no need to program around the fact that some people might not have one.

And what moving of the goal post do you anticipate?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I don't think anybody really cares about mandatory use for system level features, the problem is mandatory game features requiring motion control, that's where the worry and fears lie, not system features.

That'd be my worry too, but it doesn't sound like that's a genuine concern with the PS4. They shouldn't hold back or worry about small group of gamers not being happy, they should just make it mandatory to use the console and we'll all be better off.

I can't wait for personalised walkthrough from gaffers for Deep Down or taunting killcam vids in KZ/CoD/BF4.

It's going to be glorious.

 

[Baconsammy]

And what moving of the goal post to you anticipate?

If both include a Kinect-esque device, the laughable claim that Microsoft is going to force devs to add it to all their games is going to disappear. Anyone with any common sense wouldn't be saying that anyway, but there ya go.

 

[Thorgal]

Mark Cerny, by the gawds!

Can we already create a thread about this guy please.

allready happened

 

[kaching]

To this extent? speech recognition? Login? Create walkthrough vids and taunting killcams (this was in BOP, but relatively pointless).

They've made incredible strides on the social side, it would such a shame and a waste to see them going unused because they chose not to make the camera mandatory.

Absolutely to this extent - those features are largely just capitalizing on work already done over the past decade.

Speech recognition is probably not tied to the camera discretely, since the DS4s also have headset jacks. It's probably an OS level feature that can be used via a number of connected devices - PSEye, DS4, bluetooth headset, PS Vita, Android/iOS device with app, etc.

Also, I'm not sure all of these features are confirmed as implemented in the OS - some sounded like suggested uses. The killcam taunt, for example.

 

[crazygambit]

Still can't believed the touchpad is 1920 x 900...

I don't understand this metric. The touchpad is not a screen right? So how is its resolution measured?

 

[benny_a]

If both include a Kinect-esque device, the laughable claim that Microsoft is going to force devs to add it to all their games is going to disappear. Anyone with any common sense wouldn't be saying that anyway, but there ya go.

So if the PS4 includes one instead of what you currently think will be an optional periphery then both will be at feature parity in regards to camera support?

Sounds likely.

I had assumed that the people that had a problem with it were concerned about lots of shovelware being created by MS first-party studios or contracted out.

I don't understand this metric. The touchpad is not a screen right? So how is its resolution measured?

It's still a form of hardware that has to measure where you're pressing. It has 1920x900 points of measurement. (Realistically you will be unable to target one specific point due to the sausage fingers.)
That's just how these things have to work. Your printer is the same in reverse. It can put down a certain amount of dots per inches. The higher that number - the smoother the print.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Absolutely to this extent - those features are largely just capitalizing on work already done over the past decade.

Speech recognition is probably not tied to the camera discretely, since the DS4s also have headset jacks. It's probably an OS level feature that can be used via a number of connected devices - PSEye, DS4, bluetooth headset, PS Vita, Android/iOS device with app, etc.

Also, I'm not sure all of these features are confirmed as implemented in the OS - some sounded like suggested uses. The killcam taunt, for example.

Fair enough, but this feels like the first actual effort to bring everything under one roof (so to speak), so it's a bit of a waste to not make the accessory you need to take advantage of them mandatory.

I'm sounding like a broken record now though, but it's something I hope they are giving serious consideration to.

Yeah, I had a niggling doubt that it might be developer dependent for the taunting killcam, but who knows...with the feature Sony are offering on an OS level, it might just end being tied to one of those features.

 

[Baconsammy]

Absolutely to this extent - those features are largely just capitalizing on work already done over the past decade.

Speech recognition is probably not tied to the camera discretely, since the DS4s also have headset jacks. It's probably an OS level feature that can be used via a number of connected devices - PSEye, DS4, bluetooth headset, PS Vita, Android/iOS device with app, etc.

Also, I'm not sure all of these features are confirmed as implemented in the OS - some sounded like suggested uses. The killcam taunt, for example.

I disagree. Speech recognition would almost definitely be tied to the camera. You don't put something like that on the controller via a headset. Defeats the purpose. And there's a reason the PS Eye for PS4 has a microphone 4 Channel Array built into it.

 

[ironcreed]

Offline charging; the magic of USB 3.0.
Finally! It's the little things that matter (along with the big things).

Very nice indeed.

 

[Byakuya769]

The "oh, you like it when Sony does it?" shit is beyond stupid. They revealed the ps4 just a month ago, what did they focus on there? It wasn't anywhere close to the motion focus of MS the last few shows.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

What? Didn't GT5 use analog buttons?

Metal Gear HD Collection...

 

[VanWinkle]

I don't understand this metric. The touchpad is not a screen right? So how is its resolution measured?

I believe they're measured by touch points.

 

[statham]

The "oh, you like it when Sony does it?" shit is beyond stupid. They revealed the ps4 just a month ago, what did they focus on there? It wasn't anywhere close to the motion focus of MS the last few shows.

wonderbook? last E3?

 

[famousmortimer]

Last I heard internally the eye was going to ship with the ps4 but has since been pulled when they upped the ram. No idea if its included in a 'deluxe' edition or not.

 

[Byakuya769]

wonderbook? last E3?

A new peripheral with one game? Damn, you got me.

 

[gofreak]

If both include a Kinect-esque device, the laughable claim that Microsoft is going to force devs to add it to all their games is going to disappear. Anyone with any common sense wouldn't be saying that anyway, but there ya go.

I thought the complaint was around the idea that the system would reserve resources for Kinect features as standard, so those resources would be kept whether the game used Kinect or not. But, anyway, we shall see.

Edge also has an article up on the GDC presentation:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-2013-sony-reveals-fresh-playstation-4-details/

 

[H_Prestige]

Last I heard internally the eye was going to ship with the ps4 but has since been pulled when they upped the ram. No idea if its included in a 'deluxe' edition or not.

They better keep that shit out. I don't want it driving up the cost.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I thought the complaint was around the idea that the system would reserve resources for Kinect features as standard, so those resources would be kept whether the game used Kinect or not. But, anyway, we shall see.

Edge also has an article up on the GDC presentation:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-2013-sony-reveals-fresh-playstation-4-details/

Now this is interesting...

PS4’s Blu-Ray drive is three times faster than the current PS3 drive, Norton confirmed, adding that the hard drive in every console will be “very large”

I wonder if there being very large hard drive in every console means optional full installs like the 360 currently offers? I'd be happy with mandatory installs as rumoured for next xbox, but I'd be happy with full optional installs.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Last I heard internally the eye was going to ship with the ps4 but has since been pulled when they upped the ram. No idea if its included in a 'deluxe' edition or not.

They really must be trying to keep the price steady then. Great!

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Last I heard internally the eye was going to ship with the ps4 but has since been pulled when they upped the ram. No idea if its included in a 'deluxe' edition or not.

I'm going deluxe either way. I want all of the goodies.

 

[DEADEVIL]

So if the PS4 includes one instead of what you currently think will be an optional periphery then both will be at feature parity in regards to camera support?

Sounds likely.

I had assumed that the people that had a problem with it were concerned about lots of shovelware being created by MS first-party studios or contracted out.


It's still a form of hardware that has to measure where you're pressing. It has 1920x900 points of measurement. (Realistically you will be unable to target one specific point due to the sausage fingers.)
That's just how these things have to work. Your printer is the same in reverse. It can put down a certain amount of dots per inches. The higher that number - the smoother the print.

First I find it interesting that agreeing with another post is you knowing how much we like 'patting each other on the back'.

Are you claiming that this is somehow 'different' because I did it


No there will be plenty of Goal post shifts. but it's going to be fun to note them as it happens. In fact I believe it's happening as we speak.

But what shovelware being created by MS first party studios are you referring to. Not sure I've heard any major concern in this area

 

[kaching]

Fair enough, but this feels like the first actual effort to bring everything under one roof (so to speak), so it's a bit of a waste to not make the accessory you need to take advantage of them mandatory.

Well, there seems to be a lot of that going on with the PS4 in general, not just surrounding PSEye. Sony generally pulling a lot more of their resources together than they have previously. I don't think there's any particular emphasis on the effort they've put into implementing the PSEye at the OS level, not based on the way they've presented it so far.

Again, mandatory pack-ins are guarantee of nothing - in this same session we have confirmation that the DS4 face buttons have reverted to digital because nobody ever used the analogue buttons that shipped mandatory with every DS3.

If people want to use motion controls, they'll get a camera, assuming it doesn't cost much more than a gamepad.

Bear in mind too that, with Sony's solution, motion controls really are linked to the Move controller. The DS4 lightbar is going to be a poor man's surrogate at best. There's been no suggestion so far that Sony is going to be packing in Move controllers with every PS4 so this talk about wasting the camera by not making it a mandatory pack-in is kind of moot.

I disagree. Speech recognition would almost definitely be tied to the camera. You don't put something like that on the controller via a headset. Defeats the purpose. And there's a reason the PS Eye for PS4 has a microphone 4 Channel Array built into it.

Your logic is so twisted. Why would speech recognition be tied just to the camera? You can still detect speech on an audio input stream from a headset mic or any other audio source. How does it defeat the purpose? And the PSEye has a more robust mic built in because it sits further from the user(s), so if you do want to use it for voice recognition, I assume that's kind of necessary.

 

[Mifune]

Why are people saying that the Eye will be packed in with the PS4? This wasn't confirmed at all.

 

[Spinluck]

"The #PS4 Eye will enhance the PS4 user experience.”

Can't wait for the Kinect haters to come after this too.

They say and have said the same thing about the Move enhancing the PS3 and PS4 user experience. Not sure what you're hinting at.