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[°°ToMmY°°]

Given that GRIN are in Europe, are we sure they weren't liaising with EIDOS people rather than Square-Japan people?

I don't think this deal was set in place when eidos was already part of SE.

 

[APZonerunner]

Given that GRIN are in Europe, are we sure they weren't liaising with EIDOS people rather than Square-Japan people?

No. This was set-up pre Eidos, and while a version of Square Enix Europe existed then I can tell you their involvement was pretty minimal for certain.

 

[Sword Familiar]

From what I've heard, GRIN went down because they were trying to take on too many license games at once, expanding the shit out of the company by hiring new personell, and realising they couldn't maintain it all financially when it was all but too late to do anything about it. Mayhaps S-E were part of the problem, but if GRIN wants to point the finger they should point it towards a fucking mirror. GRIN got a bit too greedy for their size.

 

[Celine]

"So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Man.

Well even Charlie Chaplin didn't won a contest of Charlie Chaplin double.

Said that SE sucks

Spoiler

outside Dragon Quest

 

[From The Dust]

This just prives that Squeenix has shitty management. There needs to be another FF14 style shake-up

 

[Castor Krieg]

That they just decided that they were gonna pull the plug on the project without paying GRIN anything, because they knew that Grin were in a position were they couldn´t afford to sue them and take the legal battle, that´s low.

Can you please comment on legal system in Sweden? Because as crap as Polish courts are, at least it is not U.S. - you don't need a super high-profile legal team to do anything, you just need to know the law. Not having retarded jury system helps as well.

I don't understand why they didn't sue S-E, esp. if they are still in debt.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Hope they dont screw n-Space.

 

[Radogol]

Can you please comment on legal system in Sweden? Because as crap as Polish courts are, at least it is not U.S. - you don't need a super high-profile legal team to do anything, you just need to know the law. Not having retarded jury system helps as well.

I don't understand why they didn't sue S-E, esp. if they are still in debt.

The trial would have to take place either in Sweden or, more likely, in Japan. That's a big hurdle right there and Poland is no different in this regard.

 

[Funchameleon]

Bionic Commando is a great game.

Just throwing that out there.

[macro concerning haters and the actions they take]

Was about to make this post. Grin gained my respect with this under-appreciated gem.

 

[Clear]

Grin was badly run, expanded too fast, and collapsed due to the dismal performance both critically and commercially of all their major projects.

Sorry but when you put out 3 multiplatform HD titles (all solid licenses) and go bust the same year, something is badly wrong.

Whether SE screwed them over is beside the point. That happens all the time because we're not talking about a relationship of equals.

Essentially SE hired them to do a job and arranged a schedule of payments based on milestone deliverables. As anyone who works in the industry will tell you, delivering those milestones is only half the story - if the publisher/ip-holder doesn't like what you deliver for whatever reason, they can and will withhold payment until they get what they want.

Goalposts do get moved, and you need to suck it up because until they stand to lose more from cancelling the project than seeing it through to completion, the right business decision for them -the people you are relying on money from- is to cut their losses and move on.

Its just business.

 

[Monocle]

So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Comedy gold. Oh man.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

 

[From The Dust]

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

now, because of their development still highlights one of their problems (piss poor management)

 

[Black Republican]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

well i wouldnt say ffxiii failed

 

[cw_sasuke]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

....what ?

 

[Jintor]

Oh man. Hot scoops!

 

[Kintaro]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

Okay, its fun to pile on SE< but this list is wrong.

- They supported the fuck out of the DS
- FFXIII did not fail. It sold 5 million worldwide by the this time last year.
- PSP support was awesome as well.

Only correct thing was FFXIV being a complete blusterfuck.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

....what ?

I mean stuff like KH 3577737 Days, that Four Warriors of Light game and Blood of Bahamut(?) stuff, pretty unspectacular all round imo

edit: My FFXIII comment does not refer to it's sales, at all.

 

[shintoki]

Blaming SE is blaming just one of the five holes in your boat as the reason why it sunk. This is not to deter that Squeenix hasn't already proven to be a completely incompetent publisher this gen, but GRIN is hardly blameless. They became a bloated mess.

On Squeenix, they are just lucky they had proper management back in the 90's, because they definitely seem to be living off that now. Their development management has got to be the worst in the industry.

 

[Defuser]

It's funny how they're incompetant in the console area but their handheld competency is superb.

 

[H_Prestige]

It's funny how they're incompetant in the console area but their handheld competency is superb.

They just make spinoffs though. I guess they look good when compared to their virtually nonexistent console lineup and FFXIII/XIV.

 

[Celine]

I mean stuff like KH 3577737 Days, that Four Warriors of Light game and Blood of Bahamut(?) stuff, pretty unspectacular all round imo

edit: My FFXIII comment does not refer to it's sales, at all.

Game is good, screw the haters.

 

[Defuser]

They just make spinoffs though. I guess they look good when compared to their virtually nonexistent console lineup and FFXIII/XIV.

I wonder if the Japan market was into consoles instead handhelds, would SE have make the same mistake?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

They just make spinoffs though. I guess they look good when compared to their virtually nonexistent console lineup and FFXIII/XIV.

A part of me wishes, going forward, that they just abandon these 5-6 year money sink development cycles on consoles, and just concentrate on NGP/3DS, creating RPGs with the same scope/style as PS1/PS2 era, same budgets only with slightly nicer visuals (think FFXII emulation) on the top end, and good old fashion prerendered backgrounds on the bottom end. Is that not enough for us? Aren't those era RPG the best ones? FFXIII is the perfect example of style over substance, they need to go back to just delivering an awesome experience, outside of the audiovisual they're obsessed with.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Holy crap @ the FFXII concept art thing. That is just... wow.

They were very clearly talking to someone who has a very narrow view of what the "Final Fantasy" brand has been or should be; it was either some junior producer or someone who was completely apart from the creative teams at S-E.

I don't think most people understand that part.

It's not that SE actually thought that, it's that they clearly didn't give a fuck what they were sent because they just wanted to get rid of GRIN.

 

[Kagari]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

People who say FFXIII didn't fail... well, it did decent in sales, but as far as fan reception, I could say it failed in that respect and that's probably what BlazingDarkness means here.

 

[Kintaro]

I don't think most people understand that part.

It's not that SE actually thought that, it's that they clearly didn't give a fuck what they were sent because they just wanted to get rid of GRIN.

Can't blame em. They woke up after a night out on the town, picked up a hot chick with their beer goggles on and woke up to find themselves in bed with GRIN. Who wouldn't do anything to get rid of them at that point? You wake up in bed and you see posters of Wanted, Bionic Commando and Terminator Salvation for God's sakes! =)

 

[ULTROS!]

Maybe SE is trying to deny FFXII's existence.

 

[Huevos de Oro]

That reads like SE desperately wanting out of their work relationship with GRIN.

 

[Kagari]

Maybe they're trying to deny FFXII's existence.

Seems like a stupid thing to do, especially since its critical reception was so high. If anything, they should be trying to bury FFXIII, but no...

 

[GenericUser]

i am baffled that everyone here obviously needed this "prove" that square is no longer the company the knew from their childhood. The releases over the last couple of years should have spoken for themselves.

Square is not interested in delivering a good gaming experience anymore, shareholder value seems much more interesting nowadays.

 

[From The Dust]

That reads like SE desperately wanting out of their work relationship with GRIN.

this is what I figured. they just came up with whatever batshit insane excuse to cut ties with a failing studio.

 

[King of the Potato People]

It appears that Square forgot what made FF XII great.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Okay, its fun to pile on SE< but this list is wrong.

- They supported the fuck out of the DS
- FFXIII did not fail. It sold 5 million worldwide by the this time last year.
- PSP support was awesome as well.

Only correct thing was FFXIV being a complete blusterfuck.

Aren't Square games one of the very, very few games where they refused to be on PSN cutting off customers of the Go?

 

[Kagari]

Aren't Square games one of the very, very few games where they refused to be on PSN cutting off customers of the Go?

No, that was only Kingdom Hearts, because of Disney.

 

[ULTROS!]

No, that was only Kingdom Hearts, because of Disney.

Kinda still wondering why they haven't released Crisis Core on the PSN yet.

 

[V_Ben]

Kinda still wondering why they haven't released Crisis Core on the PSN yet.

So they can remaster it, put it on a disc, and charge $40 for it.

 

[BertramCooper]

What has happened to SE this gen?
I think they're almost past the point of redeeming themselves in the eyes of fans
-General incompetence (i.e this story)
-The whole FFXIII multiplatform saga
-Lukewarm DS support (and lukewarm sales aside from the obvious)
-FFXIII failed massively
-FFXIV failed massively
-Good PSP support with a few misfires (3rd Birthday)

They've just not been on form
Will people respect them again if Versus XIII/Type 0/FFXIII-2 are awesome?

I would add "No console Kingdom Hearts" to that list.

Seriously, why the hell haven't they released a console KH this generation? It's downright absurd, considering it was such a massive success on the PS2.

Of course, I already know the answer, and that is the motherfucking time vampire that is Versus.

 

[Kintaro]

I would add "No console Kingdom Hearts" to that list.

Seriously, why the hell haven't they released a console KH this generation? It's downright absurd, considering it was much a massive success on the PS2.

Of course, I already know the answer, and that is the motherfucking time vampire that is Versus.

Replace Versus with KH and it still wouldn't be out. lol

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Replace Versus with KH and it still wouldn't be out. lol

I imagine pressure from Disney would have forced KH to go at a consistent clip.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

i am baffled that everyone here obviously needed this "prove" that square is no longer the company the knew from their childhood. The releases over the last couple of years should have spoken for themselves.

The funny thing is, even if this story is 100% true (I have my doubts), it is more like the Square of the mid-90s than any other story I've heard about them lately.

 

[Curufinwe]

Okay, its fun to pile on SE< but this list is wrong.

- They supported the fuck out of the DS
- FFXIII did not fail. It sold 5 million worldwide by the this time last year.

5.55 million worldwide as of 3/31/10, which only included first month sales in NA and Europe. I expect we will get updated figures in the the 2011 Annual Report.

http://www.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_20100730_01en.pdf

See page 05.

 

[JWong]

"So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Man.

They should have sent concepts from The Spirits Within. 8P

 

[NeededSleep]

I wonder how well ff13-2 is gonna sell. How well was the game received in japan? I only remember reading about it being not so well received in the west.

FF13 was the only FF game that i have 0 interest in and that i did not purchase.... yes i even purchased ff14 thinking they would have a miracle patch at launch. Also thinking that the game would be very similar to the version GRIN was working on.

 

[Sato Koiji]

Maybe there is a miscommunication between SE's single departments. Maybe one department handled it the wrong way and people try to bash SE as a whole.

What about Eidos?

 

[From The Dust]

Maybe there is a miscommunication between SE's single departments. Maybe one department handled it the wrong way and people try to bash SE as a whole.

What about Eidos?

I get the feeling they answer to a different person. or they could be like Nintendo, but then there would be an inconsistancy on how Eidos and GRIN are being treated

 

[King of the Potato People]

Give Square some credit, they didn't request the code via carrier pigeon.

 

[From The Dust]

Give Square some credit, they didn't request the code via carrier pigeon.

at least with a carrier pidgeon, you can tie a flash drive with the files on it.

 

[Shiggy]

I imagine pressure from Disney would have forced KH to go at a consistent clip.

Disney wanted KH3 for Wii, but someone in Japan didn't like that.

 

[.JayZii]

Revisionist history runs rampant yet again. Reading this thread has given me an ulcer, I hope you're all proud.