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[SapientWolf]

Contractual terms are always in the hands of the studio. They may not have wanted to push too hard on the contract because they were desperate, and assumed Square was negotiating in better faith than they actually were, but that doesn't excuse their role in this.

If Square or anyone are going to walk away because you are seeking basic contractual protections, they aren't someone you should be working with in the first place.

Furthermore, there is a huge opportunity cost to working on spec unprotected with a bad faith partner - any time they spent trying to land this project with Square could've been spent landing another project.




This is the same company that signed Double Helix and Obsidian we're talking about, so I'm not sure that's it.

GRIN hasn't been exactly quality-driven lately, and were seeking a $20M contract with Square. If your submissions for a contract of that size are not absolutely perfect or what the client wants, you should absolutely expect to lose it.

Obsidian I can understand. Double Helix is definitely a WTF.

Also, TIL that Double Helix used to be Shiny. Hard to believe they went from Sacrifice to Front Mission Evolved.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

What is Ninja Theorys secret to staying in business?

Great facial animation and Andy Serkis.

 

[Ether_Snake]

What is Ninja Theorys secret to staying in business?

Government subventions? That's what keeps most of the industry afloat

 

[HK-47]

I said god damn.

Oh Square, way to sabotage a potentially fruitful western alliance. Here's hoping they never make any important decisions over at Eidos.

It was Grin. There no fruit to be had in the first place

 

[AcceptableGhost]

It was Grin. There no fruit to be had in the first place

I had more faith in Grin than I do Japan Square Enix (not the Eidos side - they are doing fine).

 

[SapientWolf]

What is Ninja Theorys secret to staying in business?

Right now I would say it's convincing Japanese businessmen that they're awesome.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I had more faith in Grin than I do Japan Square Enix (not the Eidos side - they are doing fine).

If thats true, I have to ask if you even cared about Square ever.

 

[Diablos]

Here's a good question: Why arent we seeing more original RPGs from the Enix side of things?

I'd say the rise of WRPG's on consoles combined with the vast majority of new JRPG's being on handhelds has a lot to do with that. There's a reason why S-E loves to milk old franchises and stay fixed on anything that says "Final Fantasy", and I'd argue it's tied into a market that's constantly changing combined with a lack of vision.

edit: Oops, misread your question, thought you said Square-Enix. Charlequin answered you though. Still, the Square side hasn't done much this gen compared to the SNES/PSX/PS2 eras as far as new original RPG's go.

If they didnt can XIV and are working to redo the majority of the game, they wont kill Versus.

Hard to say. XIV is a numbered title and would naturally take priority I'd think. XI was fairly successful for them, so they would certainly feel more of a need to protect the reputation of FF's online counterpart (rather than a game that the world has seen very little of despite being announced in 2006, I'd think). It would be much easier to get rid of Versus.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

What is Ninja Theorys secret to staying in business?

I'm curious as well :lol

-Sony
-Namco-Bandai

It looks like Capcom will be the next victim.

After that probably knocking on Wada's door.

Spoiler

He'll welcome them in.

 

[charlequin]

Here's a good question: Why arent we seeing more original RPGs from the Enix side of things?

Because Enix wasn't a developer?

 

[Diablos]

Watching Japan's gaming industry implode creatively and financially this gen has been really depressing.

 

[daffy]

Didnt know the company was new defunct...guess we'll never see another game like Actraiser, Illusion of Gaia, or Terranigma.

Those weren't developed by Enix. As they are now they may as well just rely on S-E to develop games instead of outsourcing anymore.

edit: Ah! Should've hit reply much sooner heh, that was a page ago.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm curious as well :lol

-Sony
-Namco-Bandai

It looks like Capcom will be the next victim.

After that probably knocking on Wada's door.

Spoiler

He'll welcome them in.

They'll probably be releasing another game through NAMCO since they've been pretty consistent in wanting to turn Enslaved into a series. I guess that they're happy with the results from the original game.

 

[ferr]

Watching Japan's gaming industry implode creatively and financially this gen has been really depressing.

I can think of many reasons why nothing's imploding. SE had some hiccups this gen, that's about it.

 

[Totobeni]

I'm curious as well :lol

-Sony
-Namco-Bandai

It looks like Capcom will be the next victim.

After that probably knocking on Wada's door.

you forgot Microsoft too.

 

[Tomat]

Fax the game's code and music files? Really, Square-Enix?

That's some Zoolander shit right there.

 

[Zoe]

I can believe the fax story. I've heard similar requests from project managers before ("just print everything out!").

I wonder if there were communication issues due to language though.

Square-Enix needs to focus on what made FF titles great in the past...but I cant say Grin would've helped either. That Tonberry looked busted, western or not.

Do you have a link? I'm not sure I ever saw that.

 

[Heart Attack]

i loved both of their bionic commando games. i feel they were mismanaged because they did create solid titles.

 

[NotebookJ2]

Y'know, like most people I'm not really fan of Square-Enix's nonsense lately. And really, it's not like I have much of an emotional attachment to the company to begin with since I didn't grow up with them I've finally noticed. Maybe it's totally possible for this to have had happened.

But well... I can't help but to feel people are a little bit too happy to have their biases confirmed here, regardless of whether or not the news in the article is close to remotely being true.

 

[Brazil]

i loved both of their bionic commando games. i feel they were mismanaged because they did create solid titles.

Their track record isn't favorable, even with Rearmed.

And Rearmed 2 wasn't made by them.

 

[szaromir]

Square Enix being Square Enix. Nothing surprising here.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

If thats true, I have to ask if you even cared about Square ever.

I was a major fan of them in the SNES and PS1 days.

 

[Brazil]

Square Enix being Square Enix. Nothing surprising here.

And GRIN being GRIN.

 

[leroidys]

Why, you thought it would suck?

I think it would probably be underwhelming. And I like the japanese-y feel of the ivalice games interpreting medieval europe, and I am very doubtful that GRIN would have made something with this knid of coherrant feel. From what I saw it looks more like LOTR than anything.

 

[Spire]

SE is horribly mismanaged? Stop the presses!

 

[Aselith]

"So, to test the waters at Square a bit, and to see if it was even paying attention, GRIN sent it some concept art from taken straight from Final Fantasy XII .

The Anderssons were told: “It does not look like Final Fantasy.”

Man.

To be fair, the Square guy had a point.

 

[sublimit]

What the hell is going on with Square Enix in recent years...?

 

[ferr]

What the hell is going on with Square Enix in recent years...?

I think FFXI messed them up. They haven't been exactly the same since then. My favorite SE game in recent times is a port to PSP, which is saying something I think.

 

[Teknoman]

When I was younger, I thought Quintet was part of Enix, and that's how I got into Enix games, little did I know that Enix just publishes Quintet's games.

Yeah i'm just now finding out alot of the games I liked were simply published by some of my favorite companies.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

lol @ the fax demand and SE not recognizing FF XII

Still, I think Grin making mediocre games that b-b-b-b-bomba'd is far more to blame than SE suddenly realizing it might not have been such a good idea to hire Grin to make a Western Ivalice game.

 

[szaromir]

And GRIN being GRIN.

Nothing wrong with them. SE on the other hand published FF14 LOL

 

[IoCaster]

Square is obviously managed by idiotic monkeys, we already knew that when they complained about HD quality towns with their capacity. This is just more proof.

What's the story behind this? I've seen it referenced before, but I haven't read the relevant post (thread?) and don't know the context.

 

[Khrno]

I think FFXI messed them up.

Messed them up as in gave them too much profits that they felt they had to throw it away in bad projects?

Because FFXI is one of the best games they have ever made (and most profitable at that too), so don't go making shit up about the game, please.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

What's the story behind this? I've seen it referenced before, but I haven't read the relevant post (thread?) and don't know the context.

During an interview after the release of FFXIII they pretty much said that making towns in HD was too hard so XIII didn't have any.

 

[Totobeni]

What's the story behind this? I've seen it referenced before, but I haven't read the relevant post (thread?) and don't know the context.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386632
enjoy.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

fuck, I want to laugh but I'm more sad shit like this flopped GRIN... I genuinely even enjoyed the 3D Bionic Commando just as long as I ignored the story.

 

[IoCaster]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386632
enjoy.

Holy crap. That doesn't make any sense. The Last Remnant had "HD" towns and they pumped that game through the dev pipeline pretty quick didn't they? Admittedly, it's UE3 and I would imagine a different team than any of the FF bunch but still. Is there something wrong with the FF engine? I thought that it was built in-house. There's got to be more to this story than that lame sounding excuse.

 

[Freshmaker]

It looked pretty good, more interesting than any Square games this gen.

Wasn't it a bland tower defense game? How was this going to revolutionize Final Fantasy?

 

[Syringe]

I don't mean to defend Grin (they made some shitty games), but I recently heard an interview with a developer from the Terminator Salvation team in a podcast. He said they had ideas and wanted to surprise the gamers, but that there just wasn't any time. They had to cut things and make the deadline at all costs, because that's what Warned demanded.

He didn't like the game himself and seemed to be truly sorry that they weren't allowed to make the game they wanted to do.

 

[Teknoman]

Holy crap. That doesn't make any sense. The Last Remnant had "HD" towns and they pumped that game through the dev pipeline pretty quick didn't they? Admittedly, it's UE3 and I would imagine a different team than any of the FF bunch but still. Is there something wrong with the FF engine? I thought that it was built in-house. There's got to be more to this story than that lame sounding excuse.

Im sure there is. We probably wont find out until the next 3 consoles are out though.

I don't mean to defend Grin (they made some shitty games), but I recently heard an interview with a developer from the Terminator Salvation team in a podcast. He said they had ideas and wanted to surprise the gamers, but that there just wasn't any time. They had to cut things and make the deadline at all costs, because that's what Warned demanded.

He didn't like the game himself and seemed to be truly sorry that they weren't allowed to make the game they wanted to do.

Couldnt they do patches or some sort of free DLC? Or once it was out, they had to move on? Either way, you'd think small companies wouldnt be given large franchises so soon. How old was Grin anyway?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Wasn't it a bland tower defense game? How was this going to revolutionize Final Fantasy?

It was an Action-RPG going by the actual early footage of it.

 

[Lard]

The fact that Squeenix disowned the FF12 artwork makes me <3 them.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Here's a good question: Why arent we seeing more original RPGs from the Enix side of things?

Enix side was responsible for Nier and Lord of Arcana. Also Gun Loco and Mindjack.

 

[HK-47]

They already had WRPG FF game it was XII and it was good.They just need to improve upon it, by getting some help from Obsidian.

Writing wasnt the problem.

 

[TTP]

During an interview after the release of FFXIII they pretty much said that making towns in HD was too hard so XIII didn't have any.

Of course it's hard. Can you imagine faxing HD towns?

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Couldnt they do patches or some sort of free DLC? Or once it was out, they had to move on? Either way, you'd think small companies wouldnt be given large franchises so soon. How old was Grin anyway?

Did you play Terminator Salvation? No amount of patches or DLC could fix it.

 

[sublimit]

Holy crap. That doesn't make any sense. The Last Remnant had "HD" towns and they pumped that game through the dev pipeline pretty quick didn't they? Admittedly, it's UE3 and I would imagine a different team than any of the FF bunch but still. Is there something wrong with the FF engine? I thought that it was built in-house. There's got to be more to this story than that lame sounding excuse.

I thought it was an obvious excuse that was used to defend the design choices in XIII.

 

[Teknoman]

Did you play Terminator Salvation? No amount of patches or DLC could fix it.

Wow, that bad huh?

 

[suzu]

Seems like they shouldn't have bothered to hire them in the first place.

 

[Teknoman]

The fact that Squeenix disowned the FF12 artwork makes me <3 them.

Allegedly. No matter how many dumb decisions S-E has made recently, I cant see them saying something like that...unless they did it just to shrug Grin off, which doesnt seem likely.

Especially if it was the art done by Yoshida.