Mauricio_Magus
Banned
He was probably called out for it and felt he had to apologize, I'm glad he did to not lose more face. He's a good guy and I'll buy the game day 1.
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"GTFO: A Film About Women in Gaming" on Kickstarter
- Thread starter maquiladora
- Start date
He was probably called out for it and felt he had to apologize, I'm glad he did to not lose more face. He's a good guy and I'll buy the game day 1.
Please stop trivializing the concept of homophobia. Offensive and tasteless? Possibly. Homophobic? No.
Or at least create an interesting project. Not something derivative as hell that was put together to grab cash on the tide of a hot button issue.
Zomba13
Member
From what I understood he did that because everyone was discussing the female characters and how they were sexist so he did a male one and made a joke that came out wrong due to using an auto translater.
Don't see much of a problem there. The Kotaku guy was calling him names, saying how he was like a 14 year old boy so he drew a buff dwarf to see if the kotaku guy would like that as he obviously didn't like the female characters of his.
dream
Member
Oh, I agree; the title doesn't do her any favors. I think I'm just being idealistic here because, at this point, the old "men = misogynistic, women = whiny" conversation is unspeakably dull and counterproductive.
No, I'm an expert on being gay and having shitty people tell me all kinds of shitty things.
Fuck off. You don't police gay people on the subject of homophobia.
TheSpoiler
Member
It was wrong of me to assume that you weren't a troll. I'll know better next time!
How about you fuck off? I'm trans & lesbian as well -- you're not the official spokesman of LGBT people, sorry.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I'm a bisexual man in a homosexual relationship and when I saw the drawing I laughed like crazy, it was a great freaking joke. I would be offended if it had attacked me in some way, but it didn't.
lmfao.
listen dude; there is no dialogue in the world that is going to stop young men giving women attention.
And as far as video games go, I'm willing to bet that the hyper competitive and violent videogames are almost exclusively going to be ground-zero for this type of behavior.
If you jump into the Call of Battle 2 hoppers be prepared to deal with a bunch of loudmouths and losers.
You see it less in co-operative games, even less in online role-playing games, and its probably non-existant in multiplayer browser games.
Oh, boy.
Implying someone is gay is still homophobic.
EDIT: Also, I didn't claim to speak for a community of people but I'm really sick of people who aren't gay trying to tell me what is and isn't homophobic.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
eh... discrimination?
Because the games industry is still an immature, treehouse mentality industry.
It's an obvious reference to the "tits or GTFO" meme and the exclusion reactions females get in gaming and the gaming industry.
When it's used to purposely alienate somebody, yes. When it's used in a lighthearted joking manner in response to a writer that called him a 14-year old boy in a derogatory manner because a character had large breasts? Subject to interpretation.
Context is everything -- who knew.
Joking about this isn't cool and I'm sorry you can't see this.
Please don't address me further.
SolidSnakex
Member
Isn't this essentially the same perspective that we've been getting? I think that's why some people are starting to roll their eyes when this is brought up. Not because it doesn't need to be discussed (because it does), but because it doesn't seem like anyone is talking about how to improve it. It's just beating the same drum over and over. Why not go to some prominent female developers and talk them about how they made it, what difficulties they may have had to go through that their male colleagues haven't and what positive experiences they've had? That's a different perspective, and it might also give other female gamers or aspiring developers more motivation to continue playing or to continuing pursuing their dream of making games. And it could open some developer eyes to things that they can change within their company to make it more comfortable for those incoming developers.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I think what you don't understand that just because you're easily offended it doesn't mean that someone hates gay people or that other gay people are as easily offended as you are. There was no malice behind his comments, and he never implied that being gay was a bad thing.
I think the worst part about this is that it is a valid issue, but every time it comes up there are throngs of kids, assholes, and trolls who go apeshit giving all of these articles and kickstarters extra visibility. Its ripe for easy money because it is a real issue that misogynistic children cant control themselves and thus makes exploitation of the issue from every two bit scam artist playing emotional strings they can easily manipulate to bring in a haul of pity dollars.
How do we solve this? First there is a large section of the gaming consumers that need to grow the fuck up and get over it. This industry needs to mature, I am an adult and I want my favorite hobby to tackle issues with more respect and nuance. Second, ignore these kickstarters, dont give them publicity because the exposure brings in the trolls which bring in the pity money which brings in more trolls......etc
How do we solve this? First there is a large section of the gaming consumers that need to grow the fuck up and get over it. This industry needs to mature, I am an adult and I want my favorite hobby to tackle issues with more respect and nuance. Second, ignore these kickstarters, dont give them publicity because the exposure brings in the trolls which bring in the pity money which brings in more trolls......etc
That's a pretty good idea.
Anyway, I think you're right on the mark on why some people, myself included, are rolling their eyes at this. If you keep beating people over the head with the same stuff over and over, it becomes counterproductive. People end up stonewalling any legitimate discussion as a result. It would help if it the media didn't "cheapen" the topic by making it a buzzword for hits.
Knights of the Told Republic.
pants
Member
You cant be serious. Did you even read the article?
I don't think that Kamitani has malice for gay people, that doesn't change that its homophobic. I accept his apology but it doesn't really change what he said and what it means. We live in a society that normalizes very casual bigotry and even though I believe Kamitani in that he meant nothing by it hes still feeding into a society and its system that perpetuate these things.
As far as calling me easily offended, the only reason I'm shocked or care is because I like Vanillaware and in particular Kamitani's art. Its been problematic but I still like it and having someone who's art you admire say something gross is pretty disappointing.
You should have a talk with my gay buddy then and let him know. That might stop him from suggesting that random people we see "are definitely gay". He does that from time to time.
Sad that the Kotaku writers deflection techniques worked on some people isn't it.
Gonna go out on a limb and guess he didn't.
I read it the same day it was amended with the Kamitani apology.
Your friend is being homophobic, let him know. tia.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Implying someone is gay is not homophobic, it's more homophobic to get offended about being called gay lol.
Come on man, calm down
Killing_Joke
Member
I find it surprising they take all those xbox live messages seriously.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Suggesting that someone might be gay because he doesn't like the drawing of a woman isn't homophobia. Even if its based in humorism. He would have to imply that being gay is somehow bad as well, which he never did.
As pizzaroll said, context is everything, and you're willfully ignoring the context.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Girls Tits Females Ovaries?
Gamers Treat Females Opressively
Context is irrelevant, your words have meaning without it. I'm sorry that you think that things don't have effects outside of their immediate implication but they do.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Context is never irrelevant. If you think that then you have no understanding of language.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
context is always important, Kamitani never said that being gay was wrong or bad so he wasn't being homophobic!
IHaveCandy
Banned
I guess that works too.....
I think the best thing people can do is support games that are willing to take risks on female characters having a big role in games. I feel like Sony has done a good job lately over the past year of this. Games like Gravity Rush, The Last of Us, and Beyond are great examples of having a strong female lead/supporting character that isn't relegated to the typical roles of female characters in games. If these games sell well, they will send the message that gamers are willing to play games like that. I don't think we will see that kind of change until people support it with their wallet.
robovanburen
Member
I don't donate on Kickstarter but if I did, the vagueness of this project's page would be a bit troubling to me:
"The purpose of this documentary is to reveal the experiences of women in the gaming world."
That's a lot of ground to cover in just one film.
"The purpose of this documentary is to reveal the experiences of women in the gaming world."
That's a lot of ground to cover in just one film.
Mushroomer25
Member
My issue with this is that she seems to have already come to a conclusion about this subject before even starting the project, even though it's on a topic she admits that she is ignorant to.
I don't see this producing any conversation of meaningful value.
I don't see this producing any conversation of meaningful value.
The implication that context fixes EVERYTHING assumes that every situation occurs in a bubble where any rippled created by said effects cannot be judged regardless of the outcome. I get that context can have an impact but it seriously isn't the end-all be-all.
He was being homophobic and as I stated I forgave him because his apology was genuine enough. Homophobia can happen, regardless of intent.
blitzcloud
Banned
"we don't want to be the center of attention, that's why we'll be the center of attention of this documentary".
IHaveCandy
Banned
Context isn't irrelevant to whether or not it is homophobic. You can say it is offensive, but not homophobic unless the speaker's intent is to speak out against homophobia. Much like how a white person saying an Asian person must be good at math because he is Asian isn't being racist. He's being offensively stereotypical. Stereotyping isn't the same as being racist/homosexual, but they are both offensive.
I personally have my very own theory about harassment on Xbox Live.
The reason why people are harassing others:
As pretty much everywhere on the internet, Xbox Live is a place where everything you say is linked to your online persona and real-life consequences usually don't exist. I think there should be studies on why people act differently when they don't have to expect any kind of punishment for their actions.
How they pick their victims:
Depending on the situation the victim will either be the 1 vs 1 opponent (1vs1 in an FPS or Dark Souls or something) or a specific person in a group of people (online lobby). Picking the receiver in a 1 versus 1 situation is not hard. It's “the other person”. Picking a victim in other situations is more complicated so they stick to people that stick out. Usually the person sticking out isn't the 24 year-old male so when he gets harassed in an online game then it might be because during gameplay he was seen in a 1 vs 1 situation as described above (that's how the target audience gamer became the victim).
If there's someone else who sticks out then they will be chosen as the victim. A 8-year old sounding person in the lobby sticks out, so do females so that's why these people have a higher chance of being harassed than others.
I've noticed this when I was features user on Xbox once. The messages started popping in simply because I was the one person that showed up right in front of their face.
How they're being harassed:
Depending on who people harass they also change the kind of harassment. Target group males will be called faggots or something like that, because that's either the go-to insult for the person insulting or something they hope will get a reaction from the receiver of the message.
Females will be harassed with what people consider to be sexist messages. People want their harassment to mean something and so (just like when they harass males) they stick to a couple of go-to phrases and insults. Not because they're sexist, homophobic or anything but because these are insults that have (in the past) shown to be effective ways of insulting others.
FIN.
Aquamarine
Member
While I don't doubt Shannon will use the money effectively, I'm curious to know what she needs an extra $20,000 for, considering she has explicitly claimed "I have already filmed interviews, tournaments, classes, and conventions."
What, has she run out of money? Did she consider her prior trips an "investment" to be paid off by Kickstarter?
Again, not trying to stir up controversy here, just curious as to why she needs the funds and can't just synthesize + report on the "interviews, tournaments, classes and conventions" independently.
What, has she run out of money? Did she consider her prior trips an "investment" to be paid off by Kickstarter?
Again, not trying to stir up controversy here, just curious as to why she needs the funds and can't just synthesize + report on the "interviews, tournaments, classes and conventions" independently.
No, that person who said the asian is good at math is being racist.
This is actually the impression I was getting. Risky biz, indeed.