Portugeezer
Gold Member
"GTFO"? Seems legit.
Absolutely hilarious.That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!
context:
context is everything.
Her role and the fanservice is pretty typical. Yeah, she's a female protagonist - but like most female protagonist in games, she's pretty sexualized.
Kat's sexual identity was pretty damn cliche. All the scenes involving it and her nudity were cringeworthy and something I would expect from an anime. Games hardly have a grasp on basic character development let alone mature portrayals of sexual identity, and it seems they mostly include it when it can be titillating to the audience.No she isn't. Most of those outfits aren't sexualized. They take up the tiniest portion of the game, along with the towel scene. Is it only okay to have female characters in games that show no sexual identity or something? You have to act as if they have no sexual features and any act of representing a sexual side is wrong or objectifying them?
I actually liked how she wasn't very freaked out about dropping her towel. She seemed to have the attitude that nothing is wrong with nudity. Nudity and sex are different things after all.
Yeah, Kamitani basically accused the kotaku writer of being gay. Thats fucked up and not funny.
Kat's sexual identity was pretty damn cliche. All the scenes involving it and her nudity were cringeworthy and something I would expect from an anime. Games hardly have a grasp on basic character development let alone mature portrayals of sexual identity, and it seems they mostly include it when it can be titillating to the audience.
And the school girl, maid, and Catwoman-esque costumes are all clearly there for their fetish appeal - however they might be justified in the narrative.
Yeah, Kamitani basically accused the kotaku writer of being gay. Thats fucked up and not funny.
Respectfully, I'd rather hear about sexism in the games industry from someone who has known about it for more than five minutes.
? sooo you dont listen to any reporters on anything. Not all of them are master of their subject, and a lot of the time coming in completely fresh is much better then having an already entrenched set of ideas.
I'd rather see a series of inequalities in the games industry with episodes dedicated to addressing issues women face than these one-off feminist attacks.
What about biases towards parents? Age discrimination? Developers taking advantage of free internships?
Ill listen more carefully when I see your agenda covers everyone and not just your gender.
Okay that was my civil response to whats been going on. Heres my lady rant that Im going to spoiler because I need to get it out but its a little off-topic.
I'm tired of some people jumping into the ring and turning it into a "if you're not with us, you're against us" match. You know what? I'm a woman. Ive been working in the games industry in some capacity for at least ten years now. I fight for equal pay and being treated respectfully. But just because I can take a compliment without getting offended it doesn't make me the bad guy. And yes, I will stand up for the rights for my male friends to make dick jokes or say a girl is hot because I like making dick jokes and Ill admit when another girl is hot too. I dont want to tip toe around them; I dont want them to tip toe around me. And Id hope that if I ever say something that crosses a line, theyll tell me and Ill do the same. Communication works fucking wonders and just trying to shut up the other side because youre offended is bullshit.
Well, I don't blame anyone for being skeptical.
There's a lot of misinformation about gaming... and reporters of mainstream news do their fair share of relaying that misinformation, particularly when it becomes more lucrative to spice up a story than not.
I wonder if this Kickstarter funded documentary will touch on the misuse of the subject of women in gaming as a means to scam money out of people, such as on Kickstarter.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528903
I'd rather see a series of inequalities in the games industry with episodes dedicated to addressing issues women face than these one-off feminist attacks.
What about biases towards parents? Age discrimination? Developers taking advantage of free internships?
Ill listen more carefully when I see your agenda covers everyone and not just your gender.
Okay that was my civil response to whats been going on. Heres my lady rant that Im going to spoiler because I need to get it out but its a little off-topic.
I'm tired of some people jumping into the ring and turning it into a "if you're not with us, you're against us" match. You know what? I'm a woman. Ive been working in the games industry in some capacity for at least ten years now. I fight for equal pay and being treated respectfully. But just because I can take a compliment without getting offended it doesn't make me the bad guy. And yes, I will stand up for the rights for my male friends to make dick jokes or say a girl is hot because I like making dick jokes and Ill admit when another girl is hot too. I dont want to tip toe around them; I dont want them to tip toe around me. And Id hope that if I ever say something that crosses a line, theyll tell me and Ill do the same. Communication works fucking wonders and just trying to shut up the other side because youre offended is bullshit.
And yet it was something neither you or anyone else did. Same with this project, assuming it gets finished.So it might actually be good and something worth spending some time to watch?
She didn't do anything most of us couldn't have done, at least not with the first episode. The only thing is that she has is an agenda and a lot of money.
I'm never giving a cent to anything like this.
Anita is pretty much a fraud, her first video was awful and had no production values. I hope that if this film gets funded it's taken seriously.
this issue deserves a sharply presented, well-researched, and well-funded piece of documentation.
this is not it.
sarkeesian is not it.
kickstarter is fucking dumb.
Tropes vs NeoGAF #11Same story.....they will focus on negatives and shame gaming culture, because some women don't feel welcome.
Look at the title of the project this won't point out pros and cons. This will be another agenda piece. Just my opinion after reading the title and reading she plays only casually.
Issue overall is very important one.
It bothers you that some things are actually being changed? If you're so sick of hearing about it, imagine what it must be like to have to live with it?I'm sick of hearing about it
It's gotta change, but the way the whole gaming industry acts around this is lame. Please don't think I'm saying everyone should shut up and stop talking about it, but when there's a stupid kotaku article or something every week and then we have Santa Monica changing a trophy and stupid crap... it just rustles my jimmies
Welcome to documentary filmakingyep, they definitely seem to be going in biased and looking for things to back up their opinion rather than being objective
So you are who Leigh Alexander was talking about...They'll lay off it when people stop throwing money at it. Controversy breeds attention, which breeds support. I'm still a bit curious why video game industry/culture seems to be square in the crosshairs these days though, for the most part I think the core of the problems being found could be generalized to "anonymized online interaction", "young teenage boy behavior online" and "any entertainment industry" or really any industry at all. Is it just that videogames are low hanging fruit (nerds tend to fold easily when challenged, so first videogames, tomorrow the world)? Or that mixed in with the occasional blatant sexism is a lot of more progressive thought and willingness for self examination than most other communities/industries (so already a foothold)? Part of me worries it's being used to find a "legitimate" excuse to bully geeks again (seen a fair amount of "of course gamers are sexists, they're a bunch of neckbeard basement dwelling losers obsessed with weird things trying to escape from reality and need to be ostracized" type vitriol that is not at all productive but seems to be the background sentiment of the most ardent cause fighters) but I'll admit that's part conspiracy-theory level thought, part flashbacks from being an old geek from the days when it wasn't "hahaha I'm such a geek XD" about wearing glasses and liking computer games/technology and more "It's a geek! stuff him in a locker/give him a swirly!"
Did you even read that post?It bothers you that some things are actually being changed? Awww poor you, so sick of hearing about it, imagine what it must be like to have to live with it.
Someone figured out the formula
'Kickstarter' + 'Women in Gaming' = Success
I'm getting exhausted of these "OMG! sexism in gaming!! how could it be?"
why only target gaming with these kickstarter campaigns? and what's so inherently particular about gaming as a medium, that it's beholden to be this utopic haven of decency and respect of others.
for chrissake, gaming mostly revolves around hacking enemies in half and scoring brutal headshots. it's a bit naive to expect exemplary behavior from it's adherents.
No. But the avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.Is it fair to say that Anita Sarkeesian is now the most influential person in gaming?
It's gotta change/but even the small changes actually happening bother me!Did you even read that post?
Yeah because Kotaku's tabloid fodder is a "small change" -- a small change in the negative direction maybe.It's gotta change/but even the small changes actually happening bother me!
I'm sick of hearing about it/but it's not like I want you to shut up and stop talking about it... baka!
"Why do you sometimes mock nerds and gamers so virulently? Isnt that the same kind of bullying you rail against?
A lot of proud nerds are people who used the fact they were picked on for their interests as children to maintain, as adults and and fathers (they are most often privileged men, now) a secret clubhouse that lets them victimize and oppress other participants despite the fact games are now a multi-billion dollar industry, increasingly stigma-free, and desperately in need of the creative and professional participation of multitudes of new voices.
Self-identified nerds are often so obsessed with their identity as cultural outcasts that they are willfully blind to their privilege, and for the sake of relatively-absurd fandoms space marines, dragons, zombies, endless war simulations take their myopic and insular attitudes to art and culture with tunnel-visioned, inflexible, embarrassing seriousness that often leads to homogeneity, racism, sexism and bullying.
Nerds escaped high school. Some of them made millions making video games. Digital literacy doesnt make you special, it makes you baseline employable. Fantasy is on mainstream cable.
Meanwhile, actual systemic oppression is punishing people not just where they wish to participate in games, but in every day of the rest of their lives. For many people, profound and violating inequalities show no sign of ease, and their fellow outcasts collude to reject them from the clubhouse when they try to join in .
My adult life in games and internet culture frequently involves brutal gendered language. Over video games. So if you want someone who feels sorry for you because your family grew up with a Super Nintendo, dont ask me.
The fact you got a Game Boy for Christmas and liked it so much you stopped doing anything else doesnt entitle you to a revolution. Your fandom is not your identity. Your fandom is not a race.
If you think it is, then youre in our way, and the work I do specifically exists to dispossess you of your sense of relevance. If you dont like it, good. Im much louder than you. And we have an army."
No it's not.
Also this goes out to everyone here who posts this idiotic "Why only focus on games! Or women, or people!" shit. We choose what we focus on. We choose what's a big issue to us at the time. We decide what maybe is not well known, or well accepted. People do this every day. It doesn't mean they don't care about issues like racism, or homophobia, or yes even sexism concerning men. This is an hour and half film with a particular focus on a particular culture. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we can focus on multiple things. Like while posting on forums it's pretty easy for me to support feminism, trans people, homosexuals or make anti-racism and anti-war sentiments. It's also not hard to vote for change. It's a lot tougher to be involved in activist events or making a fucking movie.
No, he was saying that he's tired of the issue of sexism being muddled by over reactionary headlines instead of actually looking inward and examining the issues for women in the industry.No. But the avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
It's gotta change/but even the small changes actually happening bother me!
I'm sick of hearing about it/but it's not like I want you to shut up and stop talking about it... baka!
That is some weapons grade bullshit right there. Bullying is bullying, no matter what.
Someone figured out the formula
'Kickstarter' + 'Wallets' = Success
Hopefully this turns out better than Sarkeesians, her videos were painful to watch.
"GTFO"? Seems legit.
Or you have a narrow view and can't see that some people might hop on the bandwagon of the subject dujour for personal gain. activism for lucrative reasons exist and these kickstarters reek of it.
look, I'm not belittling sexism as a problem, I just think its the wrong way to go about it, because sexism is not a gaming issue, it's a deeply ingrained societal problem and should be tackled as such.
Being abused in online games?
Wow, she must be a woman all right......or any human with a pulse and a headset.
Not every problem is a result of society at large. Sometimes communities are just full of shitty people.
Yeah because men are constantly abused for being men with gendered insults and the like.
Correct. However when most of the videos do little more than shining a giant light on the problem rather than offering solutions on how to fix it, you're only looking at diminishing returns, and I think that's where a lot of the fatigue that people are clamouring about stems from.
Well...they are. How many times have you been called a "fucking faggot" whilst playing Halo or Call of Duty.
"I first found out about the sexism in the video game industry about a year ago-"
right after Anita got her $150k
Correct. However when most of the videos do little more than shining a giant light on the problem rather than offering solutions on how to fix it, you're only looking at diminishing returns, and I think that's where a lot of the fatigue that people are clamouring about stems from.
A man doesn't belittle a man by making fun of the fact that he's a man. The way men insult each other is by trying to make them feel like less of a man. And plenty of that happens on Live.Yeah because men are constantly abused for being men with gendered insults and the like.
they were? which was your least favorite one? the first one, or the first one?
Correct. However when most of the videos do little more than shining a giant light on the problem rather than offering solutions on how to fix it, you're only looking at diminishing returns, and I think that's where a lot of the fatigue that people are clamouring about stems from.
Well...they are. How many times have you been called a "fucking faggot" whilst playing Halo or Call of Duty.
I really wanna see someone tackle the more serious aspects of sexism in gaming if they're going to take on the issue. Forget tropes or online play or the shit that's so rotten that it can't be fixed without millions upon millions of dollars being funneled into the project. Why hasn't anyone tackled the Capcom sponsored fighting game show from last year? Why hasn't anyone talked to Sherry Jenix beyond 1 interview? Why hasn't anyone tried to figure out why there are no female starcraft players in Korea? Why hasn't anyone tried to interview Oliva Munn or Morgan Webb upon them effectively leaving the video game spyglass? Why hasn't anyone interviewed Kayo Police about his/her status in the japanese VGC and the media that his/her lifestyle entails?
It doesn't feel like anyone is really doing the work that needs to be done here, and that's what gets to me. I feel like this movie is going to be a 20k dollar documentary about how if you play games online on xbox, a 12 year old is going to call you a "stupid bitch cunt", and that helps no one.
Bullies do tend to focus on gender as soon as they know the gender (Women get called things such as slut, men get called faggot et cetera), but bullying is bullying. I'm not sure one form is worse than the other (the stuff you hear getting thrown out indiscriminately). I've heard people insult me in ways I didn't know were possible.
A man doesn't belittle a man by making fun of the fact that he's a man. The way men insult each other is by trying to make them feel like less of a man. And plenty of that happens on Live.
I don't believe you honestly think that white men don't shit talk other white men on Live. Not to mention any of the times I've been made fun of for being American by British players, and all the times I've been made fun of for being white by black people on Live.
Stop acting like Xbox Live isn't a cesspool for everyone.
Yes homophobic language is also a huge problem in the gaming culture. African American and other minorities deal with just as much shit as well. This is a discussion about women. There are obviously other issues, but don't pretend that someone throwing homophobic slurs at you is really an insult for you being a straight man.
Besides this isn't just about single words. This is about what happens when someone finds out you are a woman. Cat calling, "Girls don't play games!" "Get back in the kitchen" etc. What do men have to deal with online? Do people tell you to get back to working construction? This is just online too. I don't know entirely what its like to be a female pro-gamer. It seems like she is interviewing pro players, so hopefully this film will provide some perspective on that. I agree though that I'm really interested in especially the foreign scene. Some of the stuff I hear about Japan can be pretty fucked up.
To make them less man, i.e more woman. Must be very hard.A man doesn't belittle a man by making fun of the fact that he's a man. The way men insult each other is by trying to make them feel like less of a man. And plenty of that happens on Live.
I don't believe you honestly think that white men don't shit talk other white men on Live. Not to mention any of the times I've been made fun of for being American by British players, and all the times I've been made fun of for being white by black people on Live.
Stop acting like Xbox Live isn't a cesspool for everyone.