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[Rubbish King]

You could argue the same point for knives as well. Just to extend your point a little.

Yeah, i know but there is some degree of truth in that comparison, even though knives are meant for cooking and shit, most of the deaths are intentional, it requires alot more effort to stab a guy then shoot a guy id say...

But unless you have enemies, you can avoid that by dodging areas where this sort of violence occurs

Plus you cant get hurt by a knife at 500m

 

[Hawkian]

Just to summarize what you guys are talking about: I've done a depressing amount of research into overall causes of death in the U.S. in the past few weeks, and I have come to conclude that there is simply nothing that can be adequately compared to guns. Nothing. There are simply no intellectually honest comparisons to be drawn.

The strongest stat I have come to note in my findings as relates to this is as follows: there are more than twice as many gun homicides in the U.S. per year as there are all other forms of intentional homicide combined.

If you are in an argument with someone and they say "but [x] also causes this many deaths" or "so why don't we regulate [x] then?" they have conceded the argument to you, whether or not they realize it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Man, these threads are just gold mines if you're looking to read some really dumb shit.

 

[AlexBasch]

Hm, curious. Some hitmen in Mexico use the AR-15 or so the news claim. I have heard gunshots at some killings and it does sound like machine-gun fire. Are they actually using a M416 or you can actually modify a AR-15 to make it automatic firing?

AK-47's are common as well, but it's something that I have been curious about ever since I learned that AR-15's aren't supposed to do automatic fire.

Excuse my ignorance on the gun stuff in advance.

 

[Valnen]

But unless you have enemies, you can avoid that buy dodging areas where this sort of violence occurs

"Just don't live in a bad neighborhood" isn't a solution for everyone.

 

[BattleMonkey]

If it's unloaded, then why does he bother carrying it around in the first place?

He still has bullets on him in a mag, he just can't have them in the gun when you open carry. Never seen the point of it but some folks just like to parade around with it thinking it makes them safer or some kind of deterrent, while of course right now it's also about making a statement for them.... yet all it's doing is making them look bad to most people.

Hm, curious. Some hitmen in Mexico use the AR-15 or so the news claim. I have heard gunshots at some killings and it does sound like machine-gun fire. Are they actually using a M416 or you can actually modify a AR-15 to make it automatic firing?

AK-47's are common as well, but it's something that I have been curious about ever since I learned that AR-15's aren't supposed to do automatic fire.

Excuse my ignorance on the gun stuff in advance.

The news likely has no real clue what kind of exact guns are being used, they often report them wrong either way. AR-15 is generally the designation for civilian semi auto rifle, but there is tons of makers for them and news especially likes to just toss the name around to cover anything that could be a m16 to some form of m4 variant as well.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Some people are just really pissed they never got to live in the (romanticised) Wild West.

 

[Darkgran]

I thought the assault weapons ban didn't work but according to this chat it did.

 

[Hawkian]

I thought the assault weapons ban didn't work but according to this chat it did.

Do nooooot draw that kind of causal conclusion from that chart. Gun violence has been on a decreasing trend in the United States for the past 5 decades or so (USA! USA!)

edit: I did a quick check, and while what I just said is true for violence rate, it actually isn't really the case for total number of gun deaths in a notable way. So disregard this point, fuck everything :-/

edit again: Okay specifically, FUCK the NRA-ILA. Look at this chart and webpage I found while searching for these stats:

Unfuckingbelievable.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2007/firearm-safety-in-america-2009.aspx

They wade well into the cars-vs-guns thing on that page, too. I can't believe this shit is even considered at the highest level of debate in this country.

 

[AlexBasch]

The news likely has no real clue what kind of exact guns are being used, they often report them wrong either way. AR-15 is generally the designation for civilian semi auto rifle, but there is tons of makers for them and news especially likes to just toss the name around to cover anything that could be a m16 to some form of m4 variant as well.

That's the thing. I recall the army or navy presenting some hitmen or kidnappers along with seized weapons and there were "AR-15's", them beings variants of M4 or M16 and identified as AR-15 sounds like a posible explanation.

 

[Rubbish King]

"Just don't live in a bad neighborhood" isn't a solution for everyone.

You can either address my entire argument, or not bother.

I know it's not a solution for everyone, but it is a solution for some, there are other solutions however

 

[Hematocryal]

I ran this through my translator:

"Stripped of any relevant statistics and unable to defend myself with critical thinking, I adopt a victim complex. Please never take me seriously on any topic."

You can run the phrase "I'm a nice person" through your translator and get from that: "I am a shallow individual with a desire to be validated by society" lol. I can't control how you biasedly translate the world, nor will I attempt to. My statistic on California was fine. More people live here, but on the same note also tighter gun laws and restrictions, so it served it's purpose, that though the place isn't gun friendly it has a shit ton of gun related fatalities. You gave a FINE statistic and I won't bother looking for a statistic to top you because really, there's always a better example, woulda shoulda coulda, hindsight is beast that doesn't favor the past. California also has a ton of gang related traffic from Mexico to Seattle, and a ton of gun fatalities aren't even by people that necessarily live here and it is NOT in cold blood, it's often gang and drug related. Do you think those people play by the rules? They don't. They will have guns anyway whether or not the responsible gun owners get fucked over. I won't have my guns but those people will still be blowing eachother away regardless, that is unfortunately the nature of the beast. To begin with my argument is a moral one, and bringing up the statistic on UK was one not based on a per capita of 100,000 not to mention I read a number wrong( and let me assure you my mathematical calculations were flawless however I misused the numbers but I'll quit defending that bit as well lol) so it was my fault. At the end of the day the only thing that a bunch of homicides means, is that there are a bunch of homicides. Statistics don't bring in outside information and circumstances. Like who is doing the killing. So while my numbers on UK were wrong, and i made the mistake of comparing apples to oranges, restricting guns will make it so the people following the rules and enjoy them won't have them and the people stealing them and using guns from the black market for their own sordid gains WILL be. The laws only punish the people that obey the law. Yes murder happens because the gun is there and "maybe he wouldn't have killed his wife", if there wasn't a gun. What if, what if, what if. If we ban guns, that kid at a party that got shot by a stray bullet from a rival gang shooting will STILL get shot.

 

[jaxword]

They wade well into the cars-vs-guns thing on that page, too. I can't believe this shit is even considered at the highest level of debate in this country.

Reminder that a decade ago, the highest issue facing our military commander was GAYS IN THE ARMY.

Ponder that for a while.

 

[stilgar]

Do you think those people play by the rules? They don't. They will have guns anyway whether or not the responsible gun owners get fucked over. I won't have my guns but those people will still be blowing eachother away regardless, that is unfortunately the nature of the beast.

I hear this all the time. Where do you get that from ? It's like a mantra : "if they want to kill, they will, no matter what." But it's not true.

http://fleshisgrass.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/us-and-uk-murder-rate-and-weapon-updated/

Yes murder happens because the gun is there and "maybe he wouldn't have killed his wife", if there wasn't a gun. What if, what if, what if.

So you get it ? But you're still using the "guns don't kill, people do" mantra?

 

[Hematocryal]

So because guns kill PERIOD, don't have them? I'm talking about restrictions and bans. I'm saying they will do NOTHING but fuck people over that use them responsibly and there's more of that than cold blooded murderers. If no guns existed no one would die from them. 11,000 people die from guns which is a FUCK ton less than car related fatalities. Are we going to get rid of cars? And ALOT of those are due to speeding and alcohol. Will we get rid of those too? No alcohol and cars that drive only 30 miles per hour? Hell, get rid of cars AND guns and there will never be another drive by shooting AGAIN.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Of course idiots like this are just making things worse and escalating an already tense situation.

He is exercising his right to carry a gun. Bla bla bla bla

Gun-supporters should applaud the guy. Also kindergarten teachers and high school teachers should carry visible guns as well.

Also, I think GAF can use some time off on gun-related threads, there is one popping every single day.

 

[stilgar]

So because guns kill PERIOD, don't have them? I'm talking about restrictions and bans. I'm saying they will do NOTHING but fuck people over that use them responsibly and there's more of that than cold blooded murderers. If no guns existed no one would die from them. 11,000 people die from guns which is a FUCK ton less than car related fatalities. Are we going to get rid of cars? And ALOT of those are due to speeding and alcohol. Will we get rid of those too? No alcohol and cars that drive only 30 miles per hour? Hell, get rid of cars AND guns and there will never be another drive by shooting AGAIN.

So we're talking about control. I'll be honest for once : I have no idea of why you would use a gun except for :

-Sport
-Hunting

Let's say you do one of those : a very strict permit and an interdiction to carry a firearm in public would let you do both of these things, I guess.

But again, here I'm just assuming, and I need the input of a user.

 

[Ponn]

So because guns kill PERIOD, don't have them? I'm talking about restrictions and bans. I'm saying they will do NOTHING but fuck people over that use them responsibly and there's more of that than cold blooded murderers. If no guns existed no one would die from them. 11,000 people die from guns which is a FUCK ton less than car related fatalities. Are we going to get rid of cars? And ALOT of those are due to speeding and alcohol. Will we get rid of those too? No alcohol and cars that drive only 30 miles per hour? Hell, get rid of cars AND guns and there will never be another drive by shooting AGAIN.

One of those is used on a daily basis with many, MANY more versatile and intregate purposes to society by many, MANY more people AND requires a license to own and operate in every state. The other ones sole purpose is to kill whatever its pointed at and doesnt require a license in every state to own or use.

Are we really still comparing these two things?