travisbickle
Member
Most knives are illegal when carried in public, so included in the statistics for "knife crime" would be "possession of a knife"... so not all knife crime = "knife attack".
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Guy carries his ar-15 to go shopping at JC Penny
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Most knives are illegal when carried in public, so included in the statistics for "knife crime" would be "possession of a knife"... so not all knife crime = "knife attack".
scar tissue
Banned
Plus, surviving a knife attack is far more likely than surviving a gunshot, both in terms of ease of evading/fighting back and likelihood of an injury not being fatal.
Take a few years of martial arts/self defense classes and you'll be able to overpower an assailant with a knife in many situations. You stand a very low chance against a guy with a gun.
thezerofire
Banned
He said rifles are more dangerous than pistols. You posting a number of deaths from a pistol attack doesn't actually refute that.
I'm going to also guess car deaths tend to be accidents and the ratio of deaths:car incidents has dropped dramatically since Nader's Raiders. We can continue to mitigate the amount of car crashes by improving car designs and driver education.
Conversely, gun deaths tend to be intentional, the ratio of deaths:gun incidents is almost assuredly higher since there's no safe way to shoot someone with a gun. To lower the amount of gun deaths, it then follows to reduce access to guns and the amount of guns available.
Car deaths trend downwards even with increased access to cars and increase in population. Gun deaths are trending upwards.
Conversely, gun deaths tend to be intentional, the ratio of deaths:gun incidents is almost assuredly higher since there's no safe way to shoot someone with a gun. To lower the amount of gun deaths, it then follows to reduce access to guns and the amount of guns available.
Car deaths trend downwards even with increased access to cars and increase in population. Gun deaths are trending upwards.
Johnlenham
Member
knifes are pretty much the most dangerous thing you can buy in the uk but every single house in the country will own one.
I also bet over half of all the knife crime in uk is done with standard kitchen knifes, not ridiculous hunting knifes or what have you.
I also bet over half of all the knife crime in uk is done with standard kitchen knifes, not ridiculous hunting knifes or what have you.
scar tissue
Banned
Yeah, I don't have a huge problem with owning a gun per se, if it's for home defense or the shooting range. I'd prefer a society entirely without guns, but in the end, the only ones suffering from guns at home are the friends and relatives of the owner, who might get shot by accident. Any risk to a third party is minimal, as long as psych evaluations and stuff are mandatory.
However, concealed or open carrying in public? Fuck that. So much could go wrong.
On a sidenote, I'd say pistols might be more dangerous in a civilian setting than semi-automatic rifles, because they can be concealed. If I understand this correctly, the ARs are basically just hunting rifles in a military look, right? What's the big idea behind the ban?
If anything, handguns should be banned/restricted, not rifles.
With rifles you can shoot from farther and more accurately so there's that.
Something is wrong with you in the head if you can't see how after a period of hearing about mass shooting almost weekly, some people may not stomach it well seeing a dude carrying AR-15 in the god damn mall.
Sure, you can do it legally, but you think that is the right thing to do? Now?
Sure, you can do it legally, but you think that is the right thing to do? Now?
scar tissue
Banned
Well, didn't think about that.
Still, if open carry was banned, you'd see the guy coming. He'd have to A) unpack his rifle in front of people or B) come around the corner with the rifle already in his hands, and people will have an extra second to run away.
With a handgun, the assailant can pull it out last second and shoot right away. Handguns are pretty dangerous in their own right.
Banning any kind of carrying in public as well as handguns of any kind would probably be most effective. Home defense, hunting and shooting range crowds would still have their rifles (bolt action only) and shotguns, and if anyone wants to shoot pistol or full auto at the range I'm sure some kind of locker room where you have to leave your pistol, SMG, etc could be created.
Also keep in mind that suicide rates have already surpassed car deaths and most mass shootings are related to mental health problems. I don't see much of a change as long as the issues with mental health care are being ignored and I'm afraid they will be for a long time to come.
I honestly don't care if people do this...but for me it makes me even less likely to go to brick and mortar stores. I don't trust random strangers carrying around rifles in public. One more reason to avoid stores and use Amazon for me. Buh-bye department and big box stores. Nice knowin ya
speculawyer
Member
Because you are far more likely to survive the attack. Duh.
RoninChaos
Member
You also have to keep the location in mind. Utah? Sure. It's Utah. A place like California? Nah. Wouldn't happen.
I do love the part in the article where it says the guy wanted to show that gun owners were responsible. I'm pretty sure this will have the opposite effect. Anyone who is pro gun and thinks incidents like this help the situation might want to reexamine why they believe this.
This, six thousand times over.
Mechamortal
Neo Member
The dude was just trying to look cool.
These two posts are fucking infuriating.
Do you want to amend anything about your "statistics?"
Edit: I see that you've already been called out regarding your aptitude for basic arithmetic and offered a "shucks I made a mistake!" in response to misunderstanding the concept of a ratio which completely undoes your original argument.
However, I haven't seen anyone address the couple of points that immediately jumped out at me in your first post.
-California had the highest number of murders by firearm last year. It's incredibly likely that it also had the highest number of murders total last year. Why? Because it has the highest number of people. By a pretty substantial margin. Do you have any idea how irrelevant this statistic is? If you go by total number of firearm-related deaths by country, the United States is consistently in the top 5 in the world. But this isn't a good statistic to use to make an argument, because countries have different populations. Granted it's pathetic that we, in 2007 for example, had more gun deaths total than the countries of the world that have higher populations than we do, but whatever, that's likely too nuanced for you at this point.
-What you should have said was, "Washington D.C. has some of the toughest Gun laws in the country, yet has the highest rate of gun homicide." Then you could have at least lead us into a meaningless chicken-egg discussion or a debate on the effectiveness of local/city-level statutes. But instead you went for California. Since you did that, now you have to sit there while I eviscerate your point with actual relevant statistics from the same source you used to try to make your point:
-In terms of gun homicide rate, DC is followed by Louisiana (10.16) and Mississippi.(7.46)
-While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in Indiana, Arkansas, North Carolina, Louisiana and several of the smaller states
-Rate of aggravated assaults with a firearm, Tennessee (137.58) and South Carolina (127.88) come above Arkansas (100.56)
So now what do the numbers tell us?
I don't expect a response, so I leave you all with one more quote:
I ran this through my translator:How about this: if any argument is reasonable we'll just say condescendingly "oh the [fill in blank argument]"that way no effort is required. Next time people talk about sharks and I say they actually aren't really especially fierce man eaters if we look at how much more likely it is that you are shot by a gun and we'll say "oh the GUN argument" LOL I love this.
"Stripped of any relevant statistics and unable to defend myself with critical thinking, I adopt a victim complex. Please never take me seriously on any topic."
jamesinclair
Banned
Oh my god, wow.
Messypandas
Member
So if U.K's is 0.04 and U.S is 3 thats 75x the gun fatalities. If so then woah
mmm but how safe is it for an arab looking dude?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
...I....really? Really? This has got to be a troll, right?
Just buy a gun man.
I hate to do this, but that's 75x the rate of gun fatalities. There are well over 200x as many gun homicides per year in the US.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
alphaNoid's alt.
alphaNoid tended to rely on logical fallacies and deflection to further his points. This is the most egregious example of objective wrongness I've seen in my days here.
Missed this gem before:
Missed this gem before:
Pack it up people, the entire notion of legally-defined crime is pointless.
BattleMonkey
Member
I'll never understand open carry states
Gabotron ES
Member
Is this normal at all in America? people walking around with freaking assault rifles, are RPG's and shotgun ok?
And I don't even care if it's unloaded or not, if I ever see someone over here with a freaking AK-47 I'll proceed to panic and NOPE the fuck out of there...
And I don't even care if it's unloaded or not, if I ever see someone over here with a freaking AK-47 I'll proceed to panic and NOPE the fuck out of there...
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
There's nothing illegal about me standing in public places while staring and pointing at people, but people have every right to complain about it.
This whole "why not target knife owners as well?" argument is useless, unless you intend to start cutting boat knots with an assault rifle. I can't butter my bread with a pistol, either.
BattleMonkey
Member
Only a few states allow open carry like that. And even in those states it's not all that common, but folks seem to be doing it more and more now out of protest or other such nonsense because of all the gun scare stuff going on now.
wait alphanoid got banned? awesome!
eh i'll continue to fly over it / fly near it for skiing, thanks.
i will enjoy seeing the lakers beat the jazz at home this friday though 8)
eh i'll continue to fly over it / fly near it for skiing, thanks.
i will enjoy seeing the lakers beat the jazz at home this friday though 8)
Ahh your Lakers that are hilariously going to miss the playoffs with 4 HOF players and already lost 4 in a row to the Jazz?
I'm going to need you to clarify this.
Ahh your Lakers that are hilariously going to miss the playoffs with 4 HOF players and already lost 4 in a row to the Jazz?
ahh they are not MY lakers. i'm a knicks fan who is displaced in socal for a year. i just need games to watch and the clippers aren't playing at home that weekend.
figures the year i move from NY to LA the lakers blow and the knicks look solid. woof.
Didn't see you were talking about homicide and not total firearm related deaths, my bad.
hydragonwarrior
Member
If it's unloaded, then why does he bother carrying it around in the first place?
It's a fashion statement.
Ahh your Lakers that are hilariously going to miss the playoffs with 4 HOF players and already lost 4 in a row to the Jazz?
LaserBuddha
Member
Provocation masquerading as activism.
the only thing sad about the Lakers being terrible is that Nash still won't get his ring.
Deified Data
Banned
CHEEZMO™;46646101 said:
My thought, as well. Maybe not "funny", but some degree of cosmic justice would be served.
Also, I wonder how his supporters would feel if he was black.
Deified Data
Banned
Double post, sorry.
gutter_trash
Banned
LOL, here it comes the "car" argument... LOL
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
I find comparing Car and gun related deaths dumb, maybe I am missing something here..
Cars, are not designed to kill people. they are designed to transport people, yes people crash in cars and people get hit by cars, but most of the time they arent really intentional..
You don't have Gun crash's
I cant imagine you accidentally pulling out a gun and shooting somebody and saying thats the same as a car crash
Another thing being you can jump out of the way of a car, you can't jump out of the way of a bullet really
A guns use is to harm, a cars is not
If you compared it to fatalities caused by other WEAPONS then I'd totally understand, but you're not
It's just fucking dumb
Cars, are not designed to kill people. they are designed to transport people, yes people crash in cars and people get hit by cars, but most of the time they arent really intentional..
You don't have Gun crash's
I cant imagine you accidentally pulling out a gun and shooting somebody and saying thats the same as a car crash
Another thing being you can jump out of the way of a car, you can't jump out of the way of a bullet really
A guns use is to harm, a cars is not
If you compared it to fatalities caused by other WEAPONS then I'd totally understand, but you're not
It's just fucking dumb
In my opinion
makingmusic476
Member
A point I made on Facebook the earlier about this:
We acknowledge that cars can be very dangerous, yet we permit (and strictly regulate) their usage despite this given the benefits they provide, as without them our economy would come crashing to a halt. Like cars, we should require significant testing and bi-annual license renewal for gun ownership. We should require, to at least some degree, regular inspections to ensure guns are in proper working order and stored safely, much like the requirement for annual inspection stickers on cars. Require a background check and state approval EVERY time a gun is transferred from one owner to another. Place limits on when and how guns can be used. We can't drive over certain speeds on certain streets, and we can't drive in certain areas. Similarly disallow guns from being used in certain ways, like bringing them into a goddamn JC Penney like that fool earlier yesterday.
Though I'd be cool with forbidding ownership of most guns, ala Japan. If we ban cars, our economy goes in the shitter. If we ban guns... less people get shot, and that's about it.
You could argue the same point for knives as well. Just to extend your point a little.
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